Breton: Promotion vs Actual

LightYagami

Edit:

Interesting... look at this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561231/altmer-weapon-damage-yesss/p1

People are so happy to see High Elves having weapon damage, but when we talk about Bretons, some instantly oppose...

I'm not even trying to ask for any nerf on High Elves or any other races....

---

ZOS promoted Breton viable for bow and sword. In reality, Breton is still a purely magicka race - in fact THE ONLY ONE purely magicka race now.

This patch grants even High Elf weapon damage but Breton (mixed bloodline of elves and human) is still a purely magicka class. Funny enough.

I know in CASUAL gaming, you can do whatever you like with any race, but I'm kind of a hardcore player. Race matters.

I like Bretons and played Breton in Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, also ESO as my main characters.

ZOS, when will your promotion of Brenton made years ago come true?

See here for the promotion of Breton:

https://www.elderscrollsguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Breton1.jpg

https://youtu.be/FZV3Buc5vEc

deleted221106-002999

Bretons historically had high magicka resistance; I played one in es3:mw (50% resist, I think?)

With altmer I automatically think "battlemage".

As an aside, loving the bosmer perma-speed boost without dodge-rolling.

Also, seen plenty of breton bow pingers in random dungeons - in that context they often call themselves 'healers'.

LightYagami

Souterain wrote: »

Bretons historically had high magicka resistance; I played one in es3:mw (50% resist, I think?)

With altmer I automatically think "battlemage".

As an aside, loving the bosmer perma-speed boost without dodge-rolling.

Also, seen plenty of breton bow pingers in random dungeons - in that context they often call themselves 'healers'.

As I said, in casual gaming, people can do whatever they like. I'm a hardcore leaderboard PvPer. Race matters.

I didn't ask for removing weapon damage from high elves, but ZOS is not doing what they promoted.

Seraphayel

LightYagami wrote: »

I didn't ask for removing weapon damage from high elves, but ZOS is not doing what they promoted.

Don’t project min-maxing and meta-chasing on storytelling. ZOS isn’t promoting anything in particular, it’s a character that happens to be Breton and at the same time an assassin.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

LightYagami wrote: »

ZOS promoted Breton viable for bow and sword.

Which they are. They can use those things and get no penalities for it either. Just because they don't have any racial passives that gives bonuses to them it doesn't mean they aren't viable.

LightYagami

Seraphayel wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

I didn't ask for removing weapon damage from high elves, but ZOS is not doing what they promoted.

Don’t project min-maxing and meta-chasing on storytelling. ZOS isn’t promoting anything in particular, it’s a character that happens to be Breton and at the same time an assassin.

It could be a coincident of making a stamina Breton on their promotion materials.
Will they make a promotion with a magsorc Nord or magblade cloak Nord? I don't think they will because they know well how Nords are positioned.

Their promotion video clips and posters treated Breton as a Bow & Sword user - meanwhile the High Elf mainly use magic and the Nord is tanky. The only one doesn't perform the same as the promotion is the Breton.


Now with the new patch, they somehow added weapon damage to High Elves. They even give spell damage to Orcs.

I guess they simply don't have good planning on Bretons (lore vs promotion vs reality)...

NotaDaedraWorshipper

LightYagami wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

I didn't ask for removing weapon damage from high elves, but ZOS is not doing what they promoted.

Don’t project min-maxing and meta-chasing on storytelling. ZOS isn’t promoting anything in particular, it’s a character that happens to be Breton and at the same time an assassin.

It could be a coincident of making a stamina Breton on their promotion materials.
Will they make a promotion with a magsorc Nord or magblade cloak Nord? I don't think they will because they know well how Nords are positioned.

Their promotion video clips and posters treated Breton as a Bow & Sword user - meanwhile the High Elf mainly use magic and the Nord is tanky. The only one doesn't perform the same as the promotion is the Breton.


Now with the new patch, they somehow added weapon damage to High Elves. They even give spell damage to Orcs.

I guess they simply don't have good planning on Bretons (lore vs promotion vs reality)...

And bosmer are known for their stealth but they don't have that.
Argonians have one of the most known assassin factions in TES and are known for their guerilla tactics, yet their racials is for healing and chugging potions?

The three faction heroes doesn't just resemble the factions but also three basic roles of Elder Scrolls. The mage, the warrior and the thief. The breton happens to be the thief, which they are perfectly capable of being. In later trailers the Breton Hero has also become a necromancer, so he's using even more magic.

bluebird

I thought this thread was going to be about the Breton costume.

The promo: agile cloaked thief

What we got: sticky diaper man

(yes yes I know, ZOS and cape physics... still... RIP Breton Hero dream)

Buuuut on the actual topic of racials, yeah I agree. If they want to promote hybrid affinities they shouldn't just pick races arbitrarily ('member when Dunmer was special? When Khajiit didn't have spell bonuses and High Elves didn't have weapon racials? Pepperidge farm remembers). Lore-wise, Altmer stam builds make as much sense (or less) than Breton stam builds, but Altmer suddenly gets a racial bonus while Breton doesn't.

ealdwin

Just an FYI, there would be precedent for adding a bit of max Stamina to Bretons, though perhaps at the cost of the conditional doubling Magicka Resistance (which isn't as useful in PVE as it used to due to the sources of status effects in PVE being greatly reduced). In previous single player games, Bretons received a boost to the Willpower attribute which increased both the rate at which Magicka regenerated as well as the player's endurance (old term for stamina).

It's also worth noting that in lore, the primary 2 magical-based races are Altmer and Bretons, with the main difference between the two being that Altmer are more offensive mages and Bretons are more defensive mages. This is evident in Altmer's traditional weakness to Magicka compared to Breton's resistance to Magicka, and with Altmers having higher boost to Magicka than Bretons.

Another note, is that Breton in general suffers the same problem that other sustain-focused races do. Their racial passives are most useful when sustain is needed. With the latest patch, sustain is even less of a problem (correct me if I'm wrong on this), and so Bretons racial passives aren't as useful. When sustain isn't as needed, then every bit of extra damage becomes more important when considering dps. So, missing out on a Spell Damage or a Weapon Damage boost is more impactful in min-maxing terms. (Hence why Redguards, traditionally one of the warrior races, has passives that don't actually aid in that lore tradition.)

LightYagami

bluebird wrote: »

I thought this thread was going to be about the Breton costume.

The promo: agile cloaked thief

What we got: sticky diaper man

(yes yes I know, ZOS and cape physics... still... RIP Breton Hero dream)

Buuuut on the actual topic of racials, yeah I agree. If they want to promote hybrid affinities they shouldn't just pick races arbitrarily ('member when Dunmer was special? When Khajiit didn't have spell bonuses and High Elves didn't have weapon racials? Pepperidge farm remembers). Lore-wise, Altmer stam builds make as much sense (or less) than Breton stam builds, but Altmer suddenly gets a racial bonus while Breton doesn't.

Not only COSTUME, but also the action.
have you watched the video? the Breton was a bow and sword user...

LightYagami

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

I didn't ask for removing weapon damage from high elves, but ZOS is not doing what they promoted.

Don’t project min-maxing and meta-chasing on storytelling. ZOS isn’t promoting anything in particular, it’s a character that happens to be Breton and at the same time an assassin.

It could be a coincident of making a stamina Breton on their promotion materials.
Will they make a promotion with a magsorc Nord or magblade cloak Nord? I don't think they will because they know well how Nords are positioned.

Their promotion video clips and posters treated Breton as a Bow & Sword user - meanwhile the High Elf mainly use magic and the Nord is tanky. The only one doesn't perform the same as the promotion is the Breton.


Now with the new patch, they somehow added weapon damage to High Elves. They even give spell damage to Orcs.

I guess they simply don't have good planning on Bretons (lore vs promotion vs reality)...

And bosmer are known for their stealth but they don't have that.
Argonians have one of the most known assassin factions in TES and are known for their guerilla tactics, yet their racials is for healing and chugging potions?

The three faction heroes doesn't just resemble the factions but also three basic roles of Elder Scrolls. The mage, the warrior and the thief. The breton happens to be the thief, which they are perfectly capable of being. In later trailers the Breton Hero has also become a necromancer, so he's using even more magic.

At least NOW the ACTUAL game gives weapon damage to High Elves, right?

Why ZOS didn't make a magsroc or magblade NORD on their promtion?

SeaArcanist

[snip] none of you who speak out and argue "oh it CAN be used with bow and sword!" actually use a breton with bow and sword.. because you know it SUCKS XD...

So you;re disagreeing just for the sake to disagree, yet you actually side with the Op's decision because in practice you dont make a stamina breton.

just throw the dude a bone and agree with him, you know its right. you know we'd love to get a stamina breton or some sorta hybrid. and you know whether its pve or pvp NOBODY uses a stamina breton unless it's for your RP character.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

LightYagami

SeaArcanist wrote: »

[snip] none of you who speak out and argue "oh it CAN be used with bow and sword!" actually use a breton with bow and sword.. because you know it SUCKS XD...

So you;re disagreeing just for the sake to disagree, yet you actually side with the Op's decision because in practice you dont make a stamina breton.

just throw the dude a bone and agree with him, you know its right. you know we'd love to get a stamina breton or some sorta hybrid. and you know whether its pve or pvp NOBODY uses a stamina breton unless it's for your RP character.

Thanks for voicing out. I guess some of the replies may be defending their races. They worry that I'm trying to ask for nerf of their races which wasn't my intention.

Talking about builds, as a hardcore leaderboard PvPer, I couldn't find any good stamina Breton PvP builds. It will be nice if those said "it can work" can provide a hardcore PvP stamina Breton build.

amm7sb14_ESO

LightYagami wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

I didn't ask for removing weapon damage from high elves, but ZOS is not doing what they promoted.

Don’t project min-maxing and meta-chasing on storytelling. ZOS isn’t promoting anything in particular, it’s a character that happens to be Breton and at the same time an assassin.

It could be a coincident of making a stamina Breton on their promotion materials.
Will they make a promotion with a magsorc Nord or magblade cloak Nord? I don't think they will because they know well how Nords are positioned.

Their promotion video clips and posters treated Breton as a Bow & Sword user - meanwhile the High Elf mainly use magic and the Nord is tanky. The only one doesn't perform the same as the promotion is the Breton.


Now with the new patch, they somehow added weapon damage to High Elves. They even give spell damage to Orcs.

I guess they simply don't have good planning on Bretons (lore vs promotion vs reality)...

I mean they have images of a Redguard Necromancer in the Crown Store...

BlueRaven

bluebird wrote: »

I thought this thread was going to be about the Breton costume.

The promo: agile cloaked thief

What we got: sticky diaper man

(yes yes I know, ZOS and cape physics... still... RIP Breton Hero dream)

Buuuut on the actual topic of racials, yeah I agree. If they want to promote hybrid affinities they shouldn't just pick races arbitrarily ('member when Dunmer was special? When Khajiit didn't have spell bonuses and High Elves didn't have weapon racials? Pepperidge farm remembers). Lore-wise, Altmer stam builds make as much sense (or less) than Breton stam builds, but Altmer suddenly gets a racial bonus while Breton doesn't.

I don't want to derail the thread, but you can get much better results through wardrobe than with the costume.







Anyway, TBH few of the races passives are very good for build variety. They seem to be designed for particular roles and builds in ESO. They are simply not designed very well, and many of them are not even that lore friendly.

nesakinter

Nothing is stopping you from creating Stamina Breton. Ironically in PvP, Breton is a pretty decent race for a stamina nightblade giving you access to more Cloaks. While there are exact stats on what is BiS in PvE, in PvP all that matters are the particular needs of your build.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

LightYagami wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

I didn't ask for removing weapon damage from high elves, but ZOS is not doing what they promoted.

Don’t project min-maxing and meta-chasing on storytelling. ZOS isn’t promoting anything in particular, it’s a character that happens to be Breton and at the same time an assassin.

It could be a coincident of making a stamina Breton on their promotion materials.
Will they make a promotion with a magsorc Nord or magblade cloak Nord? I don't think they will because they know well how Nords are positioned.

Their promotion video clips and posters treated Breton as a Bow & Sword user - meanwhile the High Elf mainly use magic and the Nord is tanky. The only one doesn't perform the same as the promotion is the Breton.


Now with the new patch, they somehow added weapon damage to High Elves. They even give spell damage to Orcs.

I guess they simply don't have good planning on Bretons (lore vs promotion vs reality)...

And bosmer are known for their stealth but they don't have that.
Argonians have one of the most known assassin factions in TES and are known for their guerilla tactics, yet their racials is for healing and chugging potions?

The three faction heroes doesn't just resemble the factions but also three basic roles of Elder Scrolls. The mage, the warrior and the thief. The breton happens to be the thief, which they are perfectly capable of being. In later trailers the Breton Hero has also become a necromancer, so he's using even more magic.

At least NOW the ACTUAL game gives weapon damage to High Elves, right?

Why ZOS didn't make a magsroc or magblade NORD on their promtion?

Because they picked the warrior for the nord hero, and mage for the high elf, not one of the classes.
They also picked redguards to portray the Warden and Necromancer, which is more ridiculous.

SeaArcanist wrote: »

[snip] none of you who speak out and argue "oh it CAN be used with bow and sword!" actually use a breton with bow and sword.. because you know it SUCKS XD...

So you;re disagreeing just for the sake to disagree, yet you actually side with the Op's decision because in practice you dont make a stamina breton.

just throw the dude a bone and agree with him, you know its right. you know we'd love to get a stamina breton or some sorta hybrid. and you know whether its pve or pvp NOBODY uses a stamina breton unless it's for your RP character.

I'm not going to agree with an argument I find pointless. I've a stamina breton, it's not a big deal.
If the OP wants to play a breton then they have to settle for the hand they have been given. We all have to. The racials often leaves a lot to be desired, even lore wise. Bretons are portrayed throughout TES as a heavily magicka focused race. That's their thing. You could even say that the Breton Hero is showing that because nightblades, even magicka ones, uses a lot of cloak and dagger in their class skills.

Honestly if all the races is going to have racial bonuses to everything they might as well just remove them and just let them have non-combat/stat based racials.

deleted221106-002999

LightYagami wrote: »

As I said, in casual gaming, people can do whatever they like. I'm a hardcore leaderboard PvPer. Race matters.

I didn't ask for removing weapon damage from high elves, but ZOS is not doing what they promoted.

If 'race matters' to your 'hardcore leaderboard PvPer' then you will optimise for the best race (and other variables)in any given patch iteration. Your own nostalgia is irrelevant to that optimisation process. As is 'liking' any particular race: equally irrelevant. The promotional video for a game is just that, nothing more: a promotional video. Anything you interpret from that is solely your inference - personally I see nothing in there that says "zenimax promises Bretons to be...". Ditto with the image.

SeaArcanist wrote: »

[snip] none of you who speak out and argue "oh it CAN be used with bow and sword!" actually use a breton with bow and sword.. because you know it SUCKS XD...

So you're disagreeing just for the sake to disagree, yet you actually side with the Op's decision because in practice you dont make a stamina breton.

just throw the dude a bone and agree with him, you know its right. you know we'd love to get a stamina breton or some sorta hybrid. and you know whether its pve or pvp NOBODY uses a stamina breton unless it's for your RP character.

Played a stam nb breton for years. Works well (fun, too) as pve tank(vet dlc dungeons/random vet pug tank, trials with friends but not leaderboard) and does ok in pvp as any stam nb does: win a few, sneak away a lot on account of Breton high intrinsic magicka and mag regen.

The OP's complaint is predicated mainly on a video which, by defintion, has considerable artistic interpretation which the OP is certainly entitled to make. But it's video not a definitive document describing in detail 'bretons are sword/bow masters".

SeaArcanist wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I do believe the forum mods have censorship more than covered.

deleted221106-002999

LightYagami wrote: »

Talking about builds, as a hardcore leaderboard PvPer, I couldn't find any good stamina Breton PvP builds. It will be nice if those said "it can work" can provide a hardcore PvP stamina Breton build.

Only tried stam nb as Breton but your post has got me thinking about trying out other classes - probably nothing on the level you seem to be aiming for but I am curious about the viability of other classes now.

Thanks for the suggestion.

LightYagami

Souterain wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Talking about builds, as a hardcore leaderboard PvPer, I couldn't find any good stamina Breton PvP builds. It will be nice if those said "it can work" can provide a hardcore PvP stamina Breton build.

Only tried stam nb as Breton but your post has got me thinking about trying out other classes - probably nothing on the level you seem to be aiming for but I am curious about the viability of other classes now.

Thanks for the suggestion.

my toon is a DK - would be nice if there's a viable hardcore PvP stam DK Breton build.
(not casual PvP but really pushing hard for leaderboard)

LightYagami

I know it's simply a promotion / advertisement. But it should make sense and better align with the real product.

Can ZOS answer me why they didn't make a magsorc / magblade NORD on their promotion material?

The answer is simple - They know how to set the identify of NORDs. They have no good idea how to set identity of Bretons.

deleted221106-002999

LightYagami wrote: »

my toon is a DK - would be nice if there's a viable hardcore PvP stam DK Breton build.
(not casual PvP but really pushing hard for leaderboard)

May I respectfully suggest posting this specific question on the PvP Combat & Skills forum?

Perhaps you may get a much more informed discussion that comes closer to targetting your specific needs than here in General Discussion?

Good luck in your search and experiments.

FrancisCrawford

Who is presented in the game is being pretty much the best of something on the planet? I can't think of anybody other than Mannimarco and Sai Sahan, and they both fit their racial passives reasonably well. (Sai Sahan's big feat of guerrilla warfare speaks to endurance, and so does his ability to withstand mental torture.)

Maybe Vanus should be added, on the theory that he's pretty much Mannimarco's equal, but again that fits the Altmer role just fine.

Confusingly, Gabriele tends to worry about the limits on her sustain. But she's presented as being truly elite as a scholar more than as a practicing mage.

Orion_89

In the Elsweyr chapter the breton-hero has realised, that he lost to
the nord-hero exactly because of wrong weapon, so he became a necromancer

Scardan

In this patch you can play mag breton with sword (+spell damage) and with bow (+crit chance). Promotion = actual.

Jacozilla

If what zos did or said years ago means it must be applicable now, then I want my 30sec, 20k+ shields back.

Same could be said for [insert whatever is your preference example]....zos has changed and massively rebalanced the game so much, sometimes literally knee jerk one way followed by knee jerk reverse (hello huge dot buff and new meta, good bye dot meta 3 months later).

If OP is going to hold zos to an old promo, I’d rather hold zos to many, many features we used to actually once have vs promotions teased but never happened.

deleted221106-002999

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Who is presented in the game is being pretty much the best of something on the planet? I can't think of anybody other than Mannimarco and Sai Sahan, and they both fit their racial passives reasonably well. (Sai Sahan's big feat of guerrilla warfare speaks to endurance, and so does his ability to withstand mental torture.)

Maybe Vanus should be added, on the theory that he's pretty much Mannimarco's equal, but again that fits the Altmer role just fine.

Confusingly, Gabriele tends to worry about the limits on her sustain. But she's presented as being truly elite as a scholar more than as a practicing mage.

Archmage Shalidor (who also moonlights as an npc vendor in vivec craft area and a drunk in Windhelm ) is a Nord magicka sorceror.

LightYagami

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Who is presented in the game is being pretty much the best of something on the planet? I can't think of anybody other than Mannimarco and Sai Sahan, and they both fit their racial passives reasonably well. (Sai Sahan's big feat of guerrilla warfare speaks to endurance, and so does his ability to withstand mental torture.)

Maybe Vanus should be added, on the theory that he's pretty much Mannimarco's equal, but again that fits the Altmer role just fine.

Confusingly, Gabriele tends to worry about the limits on her sustain. But she's presented as being truly elite as a scholar more than as a practicing mage.

Can ZOS answer me why they didn't make a magsorc / magblade NORD on their promotion material?
[snip]

[Edited to remove Spamming]

LightYagami

Souterain wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Who is presented in the game is being pretty much the best of something on the planet? I can't think of anybody other than Mannimarco and Sai Sahan, and they both fit their racial passives reasonably well. (Sai Sahan's big feat of guerrilla warfare speaks to endurance, and so does his ability to withstand mental torture.)

Maybe Vanus should be added, on the theory that he's pretty much Mannimarco's equal, but again that fits the Altmer role just fine.

Confusingly, Gabriele tends to worry about the limits on her sustain. But she's presented as being truly elite as a scholar more than as a practicing mage.

Archmage Shalidor (who also moonlights as an npc vendor in vivec craft area and a drunk in Windhelm ) is a Nord magicka sorceror.

The guy is mixing up NPC and playable toons.

Did they put the NPC vendor on the promotion video? (only Breton out of the 3 main characters wont' work well as what they promoted)

LightYagami

Can anyone make a Bow & Sword Breton and keeps sitting on high position on PvP leaderboards?

LightYagami

Those defending, what race and class do you play? What's your position on PvP leaderboard?