Increase Siege Damage On Players

DrSlaughtr

So I'm kinda tired of how ineffective siege has grown. Now, being on console I don't know how siege is doing on no proc players.

Last night we had 4 fire lancers, 3 cold fires, and multiple ballistas on a wall hitting two coordinated balled up yellow groups point blank and not a single one of them died.

This has been a constant issue and it's killing the fun in Cyro.

And now that heals are going to be cross group again I'm worried it's not going to go away even with no procs.

Siege damage, especially lancers considering how rare they drop and require leveling Antiquties, should see an increase in player damage too make it harder for a group to just eat the attack.

Thraben

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So I'm kinda tired of how ineffective siege has grown. Now, being on console I don't know how siege is doing on no proc players.

Last night we had 4 fire lancers, 3 cold fires, and multiple ballistas on a wall hitting two coordinated balled up yellow groups point blank and not a single one of them died.

This has been a constant issue and it's killing the fun in Cyro.

And now that heals are going to be cross group again I'm worried it's not going to go away even with no procs.

Siege damage, especially lancers considering how rare they drop and require leveling Antiquties, should see an increase in player damage too make it harder for a group to just eat the attack.

You have to pick the right sieges. In this particular situation, 3 Coldstone trebs or 4 stone trebs would have done the job.


For more info, just read the "ball breaker group" thread in the PvP section below.

That being said, I am not against buffing sieges, but they should never one-shot a player.

VaranisArano

ZOS buffed siege damage back in Summerset, only to revert the change after it became clear only the organized groups had enough healing to survive. Everyone else was forced to zerg and make multiple breaches in order to get past murderous siege fire.

What different result are you expecting, such that ZOS should try buffing all siege weapons again?

Sanctum74

Seige already has some of the highest damage in the game done from the safety of a wall so I think it’s fine as is or if anything a little too strong.

The real issue imo is the heal stacking and no cooldown on purge. Fix that and ball groups would be much easier to deal with.

Sahidom

They did increase siege damage ONCE than reverted it because of complaints.

DrSlaughtr

12 players should not be able to stand in place firing siege at a wall against lancers, cold fires dtrebs, cold fire ballistas, and fire ballistas aiming straight at them.

We had 15 siege on 12 people and not one died.

Sahidom

TheEndBringer wrote: »

12 players should not be able to stand in place firing siege at a wall against lancers, cold fires dtrebs, cold fire ballistas, and fire ballistas aiming straight at them.

We had 15 siege on 12 people and not one died.

Remove the AOE telegraph warning from Seige weapons and don't force a direct hit, the splash hit should be enough.

DrSlaughtr

Yeah if you had to actually watch the siege rather than relying on the aoe warning I could see that helping

SillyGT

TheEndBringer wrote: »

So I'm kinda tired of how ineffective siege has grown. Now, being on console I don't know how siege is doing on no proc players.

Last night we had 4 fire lancers, 3 cold fires, and multiple ballistas on a wall hitting two coordinated balled up yellow groups point blank and not a single one of them died.

This has been a constant issue and it's killing the fun in Cyro.

And now that heals are going to be cross group again I'm worried it's not going to go away even with no procs.

Siege damage, especially lancers considering how rare they drop and require leveling Antiquties, should see an increase in player damage too make it harder for a group to just eat the attack.

There’s is no way you said this without laughing. Do you need death recaps of over 30k instant siege damage? On a daily basis I look at my recap and see a normal stone treb hitting me 29k minimum.

DrSlaughtr

Dude I'm an all medium divides sniper and siege barely hurts me even on a direct hit. Even a lancer.

DreadDaedroth

It was fun when siege procced damage sets

Peacatcher

It would help if siege dots werent dodgeable and blockable too. Makes siege really useless against a lot of people.

VaranisArano

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

It was fun when siege procced damage sets

For the first Midyear Mayhem, my healer got a number of killing blows from proccing Vicious Death via pouring oils on the heads of players below. It was fun, but I totally agree with ZOS changing it.

BlakMarket

Its a thing called cross healing also increasing siege damage is such zerg mentality, get off the walls and fight if not enough of you are there to defend, bad luck - you lose the keep.

Then take it back when you have enough to take it back, or when that faction is busy somewhere else on the map, that's the cycle of cyro pvp.

DrSlaughtr

BlakMarket wrote: »

Its a thing called cross healing also increasing siege damage is such zerg mentality, get off the walls and fight if not enough of you are there to defend, bad luck - you lose the keep.

Then take it back when you have enough to take it back, or when that faction is busy somewhere else on the map, that's the cycle of cyro pvp.

There is no thing such as cross healing on console at this point but thanks for the sarcasm. Also letting a group a fraction of your size take a keep shouldn't be an option because they're unkillable by anything except boredom.

They wanted us to push out to farm ap because a good ball group is not gonna die until they sign off. As I said, no group of 12 should be able to eat 15 siege, when most were lancers and cold fires.

Sanctum74

First off there is no such thing as an unkillable ball group, they all die.

Secondly the root of the problem is heal stacking and no cooldown on purge. Fixing that fixes the problem, buffing seige just creates another problem. Ball groups will still be strong and it will just end up punishing everyone else and make it almost impossible to take a keep.

Thirdly I got hit with a 14k fire treb last night(not a vampire) I don’t even get hit that hard by skills, how much damage do you need from the safety of the wall?

Elo106

The siege being weak isnt the problem, ballgroups stacking 12 radiating regens on each other and purging every few seconds is.

rbfrgsp

There is honestly nothing wrong with doubling the damage and halving the firing time.

This makes direct hits harder to survive. This reminds me of Warhammer, where even a dragon or a greater demon can be taken down by an accurate one ton rock from a catapult.

It would make one-man troll-sieges less impactful as setting up three weapons and shooting out a wall by yourself would take twice as long.

It would force alliances to actually play as alliances. No more standing and waiting for the three or so players who actually lay sieges to get the job done. You all have to chip in and help out.

Rams and doors could remain unchanged, thereby accentuating the difference between the soft-but-narrow doors and the wide but impenetrable walls.

L_Nici

Actually sieges were kinda buffed due to the loss of passive damage mitigations in CP, a Lancier hits you for 6 to 7k each hit now, oils hit for 10k easy. Sieges deal insane damage to everything that isn't a crossheal ballgroup currently.
You of course can still block them for some reason, I mean who doesn't block a ballista bolt with a wooden shield just with the power of your arm.

Mayrael

The most fun times were when sieges were bugged and ignored shields, resistances etc. It forced even ball groups to spread and back then we had much less lags. 2 shots of cold fires could wipe ball group. It was fun, because we actually had to pay attention to sieges. Getting a keep want just about setting up a ram. Keep wall sieges were once again a thing. Fun times.

VaranisArano

rbfrgsp wrote: »

There is honestly nothing wrong with doubling the damage and halving the firing time.

This makes direct hits harder to survive. This reminds me of Warhammer, where even a dragon or a greater demon can be taken down by an accurate one ton rock from a catapult.

It would make one-man troll-sieges less impactful as setting up three weapons and shooting out a wall by yourself would take twice as long.

It would force alliances to actually play as alliances. No more standing and waiting for the three or so players who actually lay sieges to get the job done. You all have to chip in and help out.

Rams and doors could remain unchanged, thereby accentuating the difference between the soft-but-narrow doors and the wide but impenetrable walls.

Did you mean "doubling the damage and halving the firing time"? Because that would do more damage, twice as fast...

The rest of what you say sounds like you want sieges to take longer, whereas double damage and double the firing time would be effectively the same DPS.

rbfrgsp

By firing time yes I mean the rate of fire so halve the rate of fire and double the damage. And sieges would only stay similar durations with multiple players. Slowing rate of fire would prevent one-man troll sieging because defenders should in theory at least be able to mend between shots fired unless the attacker laid like six engines to maintain a constant stream of damage to the structure.

Don't get me wrong, guerrilla sieges to knock out a connecting keep is smart map strategy in the current game. But it's also a bit daft and unrealistic, too.

DrSlaughtr

rbfrgsp wrote: »

By firing time yes I mean the rate of fire so halve the rate of fire and double the damage. And sieges would only stay similar durations with multiple players. Slowing rate of fire would prevent one-man troll sieging because defenders should in theory at least be able to mend between shots fired unless the attacker laid like six engines to maintain a constant stream of damage to the structure.

Don't get me wrong, guerrilla sieges to knock out a connecting keep is smart map strategy in the current game. But it's also a bit daft and unrealistic, too.

This is a good idea.

I'm not advocating siege being able to one hit groups. I'm advocating siege having a better role in defending a keep. It's very rare, at least on XB, for counter siege on a wall, which should have an advantage, preventing a group from getting the door down. I can't remember the last time my group was forced to abandon a siege due to counter EXCEPT for stacking oils. But oils aren't gonna do *** against long siege, and that is where there's an imbalance, IMO.

As I said in the beginning, no group should be able to stack on one another and eat 15 siege, most of which were lancers and cold fires. Maybe upping siege damage isn't the way to go but if I'm being honest, if I'm leading 12 people sieging a keep (non-ball group) and we get nailed with that much ammo and don't bother spreading out, we all deserve to die.

FirmamentOfStars

Before any buffs to sieges, they should get disabled for any locations not in a keep, on keep wall or ON resource towers.
Im tired of people setting up sieges anywhere, when they are fighting a few people, firing their siege from max range on single targets, while the target is already fighting other players.
Thx

Joy_Division

Siege is so weak that the first thing those 5 star alliance heroes do once the gate is down is rush up onto the towers and lay down multiple siege rush just so they can reign down destruction onto the defenders.

hafgood

We use seige and counter seige a lot when taking and defending keeps, it can be very effective and generate a high number of kills when used well, so no it doesn't need buffing

DrSlaughtr

You get kills on individuals but not organized groups with healers who happily stand in siege. Those are the groups you need to out number with siege but it doesn't matter. A 12 man group with healers will not die nor will they be forced to move their siege.

I hate to keep repeating myself but for the naysayers did you not read my original post? We had 15 siege, 10 of which were lancers and cold fire, aimed dead at a single group and it did nothing to them. That is not a situation that should exist. I'm not saying they should wipe in one barrage but they should at least be forced to move after 5 minutes of continued hits.

It's too easy to get into a keep with an organized group. I've been on both sides. Only thing that stops people from getting is to be outnumbered by defenders who push out. Other than oils no wall siege does the trick.

hafgood

Yes

Yes I read your original post.

Did you read my answer?

Now we have condescending each other can you understand that different people have different experiences and therefore may or may not agree with you. That's part and parcel of life and of playing the game. Sometimes people will agree, other times they won't. Doesn't make either side correct, just means we have a difference of opinion.

In your view seige needs buffing.

In my view it doesn't.

I accept your view while disagreeing with it. It doesn't mean I need to start asking whether people read my original post as they are not agreeing with what I say so they must be incapable of reading my post because if they read it they would be 100% in agreement.

It just means we don't agree. It's as simple.as that.

DrSlaughtr

A handful of fire ballistas can take down a stone wall quickly

A handful of lancers can't kill a single person in a 12 man group

Hmm 🤔🤔🤔

nryerson1025

I love sieging and am not against a buff to its dmg (that time they got buffed was a blast) but were they in a siege shield? Did they have 8healers?

Every time I hit someone with a cold fire treb, the first hit is 18k with a few more 10k+ ticks. They rarely don't die

ThePedge

Needs nerfing if anything.