Update on Proc Set Plan in Cyrodiil

Pallio

So basically PvE will be punished again in an effort to balance PvP, like every patch.

Zabagad

Pallio wrote: »

So basically PvE will be punished again in an effort to balance PvP, like every patch.

In PvP we have to care about all stats (mag/health/stam) and have to balance dmg/heal/reg much more then PvE ppl.
So - maybe some sets in PvE will be (much?) stronger then before (which of the concerning sets do you use in PvE anyway?)
So, if your set will be buffed - pls say ty to the PvP community

Luke_Flamesword

To not nerf too much PvE, maybe this should be done this way - buff base proc sets stats to buff PvE players, which is needed especially with CP nerfs. But to have healthy PvP experience just add to Battle Spirit some debuff like "all procs are 30% weaker".

IT will be never work good, if PvE and PvP will have same rules for procs...

jaws343

Pallio wrote: »

So basically PvE will be punished again in an effort to balance PvP, like every patch.

How so? This has the potential to make procs even more powerful in PVE since PVE setups usually push max weapon/spell damage.

Wolfmaster

for some reason this puts an image of a dog chasing it's tail in my head...round and round we go, but instead of getting anywhere we just get a little more dizzy...

Kwoung

nm

UntouchableHunter

Seraphayel wrote: »

Proc Set changes incoming!

Proc Sets

The growing concerns over the “proc set meta” for the past few updates has not fallen on deaf ears. We understand the frustration of feeling required to run these types of sets and fighting against them in PVP. These sets are seen as “free” sources of damage, healing and survivability, all of which come with minimal tradeoffs. We want these proc choices to mean something, rather than just the de facto method of building a character without paying for it in some way.

With that stated, in Update 30 we are making all item sets that deal damage or heal scale with player stats. You will need to make a conscious build choice when looking at which item sets to include in your build, rather than simply equipping three proc sets for that aforementioned “free damage”. Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher. Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher. Other sets that fall outside of that functionality will likely scale with Max Health, as well as a handful of other unique ways. Full details about which sets scale with which stats will be displayed in the tooltips for your item sets.

The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats. In PVP, we expect lower efficacy from item set procs as builds for PVP typically tend to focus on several stats that will take away from the potential to deep dive into specializing into specific stats. This also means that if you opt to run a full build of proc sets, you’ll be trading off a large source of stats for your build and you’ll be limited to gaining them from passives, enchants, and consumables, significantly limiting your ability to build as you could before. It’s possible to get to the values of “proc sets” pre-U30 if you specialize your stats for it, as well as getting higher values than before if you go all in to building around their scaling, but we believe this will lead to a healthier balance of damage and healing versus the “free procs” you get now.

I think it is fair. I just want my sets back.

And IMO if you invest to be a healer you must be a better healer than someone investing for damage.

Today we have crazy damage dealers that heals their self (with vigor for exemplo and rally) more then a healer for exemplo and it is ridiculous.

I hope the proc sets can be build in this direction to the game play make more sense.

TheAlphaRaider

Krulzuk wrote: »

ZoS Confirmed sets that fully work:

Amber Plasm
Armor of the Trainee
Beekeeper’s Gear
Crafty Alfiq
Draugr Hulk
Endurance
Fortified Brass
Grace of the Ancients
Hunding’s Rage
Impregnable Armor
Law of Julianos
Leviathan
Mother’s Sorrow
Plague Doctor
Shacklebreaker
Spinner’s Garments
Spriggan’s Thorns
Willpower
Agility


Unconfirmed(maybe I made mistakes) Sets that have an extra stat line of some kind as an extra 5pc, so could still be maybe considered (not counting trial sets that have trial-only buffs in them):

Akaviri Dragonguard
Black Rose
Call of the Undertaker
Champion of the Hist
Coward's Gear
Dauntless Combatant
Dead Water's Guile
Dragon's Defilement
Eternal Vigor
Fasalla's Guile
Hanu's Compassion
Healer's Habit
Heem-Jas' Retribution
Hex Siphon
Hide of Morihaus
Jailbreaker
Kagrenac's Hope
Knightmare
Might of the Lost Legion
Night Mother's Embrace
Oblivion's Edge
Obvlivion's Foe
Order of Diagna
Pestilent Host
Ranger's Gait
Rattlecage
Sentry
Shadow Dancer's Raiment
Shalk Exoskeleton
Toothrow
Treasure Hunter
Vampire Cloak
Vastarie's Tutelage
Vicious Death
Warrior-Poet
Wisdom of Vanus
Wizard's Riposte

Also the first line from any monster set that is a raw stat will work as well. Thanks.

genzo528

Is there any plans to fix cross faction teaming in cyrodiil? Not sure if its broken because guilds are cross faction or not but since its the best part of the game for allot of people its a shame its broken and iv not seen anything about this issue being fixed

Firstmep

genzo528 wrote: »

Is there any plans to fix cross faction teaming in cyrodiil? Not sure if its broken because guilds are cross faction or not but since its the best part of the game for allot of people its a shame its broken and iv not seen anything about this issue being fixed

The whole idea behind the three way war is that sometimes temporary alliances form to serve the purposes of the individual factions.
It's just politics nothing to fix.

Agalloch

We need our PVP Cyro back! Revert all the changes made in the last 4 years.

Problem fixed.

Also, we need massive battles to return. ESO was intended to handle 24 member groups.

Now in PTS we see ZOS want to cut in half PVE/IC groups too..

This is a MMO ..we dont want to play only solo or with AI companions. ZOS, upgrade your servers!

Cyrodiil could be better if all the changes made in the last years will be reverted.

Thanks in advance!

Wolfmaster

How is the population in Cyrodiil? I haven't been out there even to farm for tranmutes since they cut our sets. Just can't get motivated to rebuild 18 characters or spend the gold and mats to do so until I know what's going to happen.

Jaraal

Wolfmaster wrote: »

How is the population in Cyrodiil?

PC/NA Gray Host is a virtual ghost town compared to before. I've seen 1 bar pop across the board in off hours, and even USA prime time there's often no queue. And it seems like pop caps have been lowered further, as even when it's locked you might have to spend a lot of time looking for a fight.

Going to be a lot worse when they split the players into separate proc/no proc camps.

TheAlphaRaider

Pallio wrote: »

So basically PvE will be punished again in an effort to balance PvP, like every patch.

Lol this is a buff to pve, the patch notes even say it. Or do you want a nerf? I am confused.

Wolfmaster

Jaraal wrote: »

Wolfmaster wrote: »

How is the population in Cyrodiil?

PC/NA Gray Host is a virtual ghost town compared to before. I've seen 1 bar pop across the board in off hours, and even USA prime time there's often no queue. And it seems like pop caps have been lowered further, as even when it's locked you might have to spend a lot of time looking for a fight.

Going to be a lot worse when they split the players into separate proc/no proc camps.

I was afraid of that. The notoriety of the no proc experiment has run it's course so people are finding better things to do. I'm just afraid of spending all that gold and materials only to find that they do something like this again. I don't know if they don't understand just how much they've cost those of us that have multiple accounts with 18 characters each; or if they just don't care. It was a lot of work to get the feel and flavor for my toons. I didn't build them to be some kind of master 1 button kill everybody toons. I work hard to make each of my characters unique and interesting, yet still viable. This set limitation is akin to the mindless, matching, fools who march along in their sameness in the Pink Floyd "The Wall" videos. I know in the past they've given us the opportunity to recoup some of our losses when they make changes that affect us financially. Like maybe for a limited time they would let us recover all 8 of the gold level materials we spent maxing out a piece of equipment instead of having a small chance of getting just 1 back when we deconstruct it. A little gesture of good will goes a long way towards soothing a sore wallet.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

If procs remain as they are now on PTS, you will have the most cancerous pvp experience ever. PVP will be completely ruined for anyone not running a health stacking proc build. You will get your sets back and you will rue the day you do. They are absolutely broken on PTS right now doing easily double the free damage they were doing before they got taken away. They still got time to tone them down, but if this goes live its tank meta or die.

The Uninvited

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

If procs remain as they are now on PTS, you will have the most cancerous pvp experience ever. PVP will be completely ruined for anyone not running a health stacking proc build. You will get your sets back and you will rue the day you do. They are absolutely broken on PTS right now doing easily double the free damage they were doing before they got taken away. They still got time to tone them down, but if this goes live its tank meta or die.

PTS is also riddled with bugs. Could be that it's a bug and showing double damage while not intended? Maybe battle spirit is not working properly on PTS?

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Battle spirit is not the issue, its the scaling. If you can get it to hit by the new scaled damage it will still do double the damage regardless if effected by battle-spirit. Old crimson was 8k tooltip with 4k damage in battle spirit. New tooltip is 21k with 10k damage in battle spirit.

The real problem is stack ability, anyone not wearing the new tank meta wont be able to hold any ground against a group of tanks who are scaling the damage via health and you will die in half the time it took last patch, unless you also stack health and heavy armor yourself. Its just gonna be a terrible vicious cycle where you have nothing but necros and werewolves running plague doctor and crimson and the new sithis mask, spamming their ultimate and wiping scrubs as a truly un-killable ball group. And there will be nothing you can do but join them.

Gilvoth

it's cannot be solved, it's an illusion.
so that brings us back to page one.
back in beta, 8 years ago, we told them.

"do not make classes."
"delete the classes"

and now we see the results, they refused to do as we asked.
enjoy the horrors that you have created from the extreme imbalances, and the people that believe they have all the answers to fix an unsolvable Penrose triangle of classes.
there is no escape.

LightYagami

Can we have say one no-proc Cyrodiil in the long run?

The Uninvited

LightYagami wrote: »

Can we have say one no-proc Cyrodiil in the long run?

They said they would do that. 1 campaign with and 1 campaign without procs.

Beardimus

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can a new pinned thread be created with updates?

Keep scrolling this one in case but don't want to miss plans.

I'm very very happy retaining noProc Cyrodiil but am keen to know if plans change

venomsky

Rattlecage counts as a proc set..... Well done zos

DBHErazor

@ZOS_GinaBruno please by all that is holy leave proc sets disabled in Cyro.

This is the best PvP the game has had to offer in the last 5+ years.
The fact that you can return to the game after a 2+ year hiatus and not have to worry about getting the latest DLC, grinding dungeons, gathering monster sets and mythics just to participate in PvP is the best thing since sliced bread.

If you don't have to worry about the sets, you can actually balance the classes against each other without having to factor insane procs into the equation as well.

A humble plea from a player who only returned due to no procs and who will happily stick around & pay the monthly sub as long as they remain disabled.

The Uninvited

DBHErazor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno please by all that is holy leave proc sets disabled in Cyro.

This is the best PvP the game has had to offer in the last 5+ years.
The fact that you can return to the game after a 2+ year hiatus and not have to worry about getting the latest DLC, grinding dungeons, gathering monster sets and mythics just to participate in PvP is the best thing since sliced bread.

If you don't have to worry about the sets, you can actually balance the classes against each other without having to factor insane procs into the equation as well.

A humble plea from a player who only returned due to no procs and who will happily stick around & pay the monthly sub as long as they remain disabled.

They will make a seperate no-proc campaign in U31.

Beardimus

The Uninvited wrote: »

DBHErazor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno please by all that is holy leave proc sets disabled in Cyro.

This is the best PvP the game has had to offer in the last 5+ years.
The fact that you can return to the game after a 2+ year hiatus and not have to worry about getting the latest DLC, grinding dungeons, gathering monster sets and mythics just to participate in PvP is the best thing since sliced bread.

If you don't have to worry about the sets, you can actually balance the classes against each other without having to factor insane procs into the equation as well.

A humble plea from a player who only returned due to no procs and who will happily stick around & pay the monthly sub as long as they remain disabled.

They will make a seperate no-proc campaign in U31.

Where has that been said just trying to keep current?
And in what format - CP / NoCP / Alliance locked or not etc. Feels like division of a not huge population

LightYagami

Beardimus wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

DBHErazor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno please by all that is holy leave proc sets disabled in Cyro.

This is the best PvP the game has had to offer in the last 5+ years.
The fact that you can return to the game after a 2+ year hiatus and not have to worry about getting the latest DLC, grinding dungeons, gathering monster sets and mythics just to participate in PvP is the best thing since sliced bread.

If you don't have to worry about the sets, you can actually balance the classes against each other without having to factor insane procs into the equation as well.

A humble plea from a player who only returned due to no procs and who will happily stick around & pay the monthly sub as long as they remain disabled.

They will make a seperate no-proc campaign in U31.

Where has that been said just trying to keep current?
And in what format - CP / NoCP / Alliance locked or not etc. Feels like division of a not huge population

Low PvP population is because of lack of improvement, not division of population. There are way more diversified PvE zones and contents and the PvE community keeps growing.

In PvP, they should change the current practice instead of keeping the existing ways. Lack of choice isn't a good way to attract people. BG is an example. They don't even allow players to select game mode now. Low division, right? and that doesn't help increasing the player base at all. In fact it simply make people don't want to play BGs.

No-proc PvP is good, what they should do maybe simply expand the allowed sets (for example those adding x% of something), keep those probability based set out, then it will be fine.

Players should focus more on their skills - dodging, blocking, healing, damage combo, situational awareness, etc. instead of simply let their gears do the majority for them.

Currently almost all DLC are PvE focused. They didn't put enough resources in PvP (not even smooth servers of Cyrodiil) and that's the key problem of why PvP player base keeps dropping. If they keep unchanged, players won't come back.

Beardimus

LightYagami wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

DBHErazor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno please by all that is holy leave proc sets disabled in Cyro.

This is the best PvP the game has had to offer in the last 5+ years.
The fact that you can return to the game after a 2+ year hiatus and not have to worry about getting the latest DLC, grinding dungeons, gathering monster sets and mythics just to participate in PvP is the best thing since sliced bread.

If you don't have to worry about the sets, you can actually balance the classes against each other without having to factor insane procs into the equation as well.

A humble plea from a player who only returned due to no procs and who will happily stick around & pay the monthly sub as long as they remain disabled.

They will make a seperate no-proc campaign in U31.

Where has that been said just trying to keep current?
And in what format - CP / NoCP / Alliance locked or not etc. Feels like division of a not huge population

Low PvP population is because of lack of improvement, not division of population. There are way more diversified PvE zones and contents and the PvE community keeps growing.

In PvP, they should change the current practice instead of keeping the existing ways. Lack of choice isn't a good way to attract people. BG is an example. They don't even allow players to select game mode now. Low division, right? and that doesn't help increasing the player base at all. In fact it simply make people don't want to play BGs.

No-proc PvP is good, what they should do maybe simply expand the allowed sets (for example those adding x% of something), keep those probability based set out, then it will be fine.

Players should focus more on their skills - dodging, blocking, healing, damage combo, situational awareness, etc. instead of simply let their gears do the majority for them.

Currently almost all DLC are PvE focused. They didn't put enough resources in PvP (not even smooth servers of Cyrodiil) and that's the key problem of why PvP player base keeps dropping. If they keep unchanged, players won't come back.

I hear you @LightYagami but also disagree about division...as it is a factor to spread an already low pop in places is my point.

For example noCP on Xbox EU population can be low pop, but can also lead to wicked small scale, when guilds arrive for a push on reset. If you created two noCP one Proc, and one no Proc it would ruin noCP completely.

Main Pop on most camps is Grey Host right, players have voted with their feet on alliance lock being favoured. Blackreach is very low pop and again couldn't handle a split.

I'm not one for Zergs, so grey Host pop split down the middle wouldn't faze me.

To repeat I'm not saying low pop is around division, I'm saying the low pop can't handle further division.

I very much agree no Proc PvP is better. And agree on static stat sets being allowed. For me, enforce that across the board to imperial city and BG and be done with it. But it appears they want to react to noise around those wanting Procs. Personally think bad idea.

I also disagree with you on BG, having a solo / premade queue is more important to player fun than selecting a game mode, and I think it's helped the queue, less division as no choice. Alot selected DM anyway so it's better to have a mix. I would like to see proper team leaderboards etc and private BGs for tournaments as improvements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Any Offical post links on the plans with Procs ?

Mr_Gallows

Beardimus wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

DBHErazor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno please by all that is holy leave proc sets disabled in Cyro.

This is the best PvP the game has had to offer in the last 5+ years.
The fact that you can return to the game after a 2+ year hiatus and not have to worry about getting the latest DLC, grinding dungeons, gathering monster sets and mythics just to participate in PvP is the best thing since sliced bread.

If you don't have to worry about the sets, you can actually balance the classes against each other without having to factor insane procs into the equation as well.

A humble plea from a player who only returned due to no procs and who will happily stick around & pay the monthly sub as long as they remain disabled.

They will make a seperate no-proc campaign in U31.

Where has that been said just trying to keep current?
And in what format - CP / NoCP / Alliance locked or not etc. Feels like division of a not huge population

Low PvP population is because of lack of improvement, not division of population. There are way more diversified PvE zones and contents and the PvE community keeps growing.

In PvP, they should change the current practice instead of keeping the existing ways. Lack of choice isn't a good way to attract people. BG is an example. They don't even allow players to select game mode now. Low division, right? and that doesn't help increasing the player base at all. In fact it simply make people don't want to play BGs.

No-proc PvP is good, what they should do maybe simply expand the allowed sets (for example those adding x% of something), keep those probability based set out, then it will be fine.

Players should focus more on their skills - dodging, blocking, healing, damage combo, situational awareness, etc. instead of simply let their gears do the majority for them.

Currently almost all DLC are PvE focused. They didn't put enough resources in PvP (not even smooth servers of Cyrodiil) and that's the key problem of why PvP player base keeps dropping. If they keep unchanged, players won't come back.

I hear you @LightYagami but also disagree about division...as it is a factor to spread an already low pop in places is my point.

For example noCP on Xbox EU population can be low pop, but can also lead to wicked small scale, when guilds arrive for a push on reset. If you created two noCP one Proc, and one no Proc it would ruin noCP completely.

Main Pop on most camps is Grey Host right, players have voted with their feet on alliance lock being favoured. Blackreach is very low pop and again couldn't handle a split.

I'm not one for Zergs, so grey Host pop split down the middle wouldn't faze me.

To repeat I'm not saying low pop is around division, I'm saying the low pop can't handle further division.

I very much agree no Proc PvP is better. And agree on static stat sets being allowed. For me, enforce that across the board to imperial city and BG and be done with it. But it appears they want to react to noise around those wanting Procs. Personally think bad idea.

I also disagree with you on BG, having a solo / premade queue is more important to player fun than selecting a game mode, and I think it's helped the queue, less division as no choice. Alot selected DM anyway so it's better to have a mix. I would like to see proper team leaderboards etc and private BGs for tournaments as improvements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Any Offical post links on the plans with Procs ?

Procs sets are the cancer eating away at gameplay. Just can't go back to that bad gameplay. They should do no proc versions for cyrodiil, imp city and BGs. Otherwise PvP is just over. They will never fix proc sets because free damage/healing is free damage/healing no matter how they scale it.

The Uninvited

Beardimus wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

DBHErazor wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno please by all that is holy leave proc sets disabled in Cyro.

This is the best PvP the game has had to offer in the last 5+ years.
The fact that you can return to the game after a 2+ year hiatus and not have to worry about getting the latest DLC, grinding dungeons, gathering monster sets and mythics just to participate in PvP is the best thing since sliced bread.

If you don't have to worry about the sets, you can actually balance the classes against each other without having to factor insane procs into the equation as well.

A humble plea from a player who only returned due to no procs and who will happily stick around & pay the monthly sub as long as they remain disabled.

They will make a seperate no-proc campaign in U31.

Where has that been said just trying to keep current?
And in what format - CP / NoCP / Alliance locked or not etc. Feels like division of a not huge population

Low PvP population is because of lack of improvement, not division of population. There are way more diversified PvE zones and contents and the PvE community keeps growing.

In PvP, they should change the current practice instead of keeping the existing ways. Lack of choice isn't a good way to attract people. BG is an example. They don't even allow players to select game mode now. Low division, right? and that doesn't help increasing the player base at all. In fact it simply make people don't want to play BGs.

No-proc PvP is good, what they should do maybe simply expand the allowed sets (for example those adding x% of something), keep those probability based set out, then it will be fine.

Players should focus more on their skills - dodging, blocking, healing, damage combo, situational awareness, etc. instead of simply let their gears do the majority for them.

Currently almost all DLC are PvE focused. They didn't put enough resources in PvP (not even smooth servers of Cyrodiil) and that's the key problem of why PvP player base keeps dropping. If they keep unchanged, players won't come back.

I hear you @LightYagami but also disagree about division...as it is a factor to spread an already low pop in places is my point.

For example noCP on Xbox EU population can be low pop, but can also lead to wicked small scale, when guilds arrive for a push on reset. If you created two noCP one Proc, and one no Proc it would ruin noCP completely.

Main Pop on most camps is Grey Host right, players have voted with their feet on alliance lock being favoured. Blackreach is very low pop and again couldn't handle a split.

I'm not one for Zergs, so grey Host pop split down the middle wouldn't faze me.

To repeat I'm not saying low pop is around division, I'm saying the low pop can't handle further division.

I very much agree no Proc PvP is better. And agree on static stat sets being allowed. For me, enforce that across the board to imperial city and BG and be done with it. But it appears they want to react to noise around those wanting Procs. Personally think bad idea.

I also disagree with you on BG, having a solo / premade queue is more important to player fun than selecting a game mode, and I think it's helped the queue, less division as no choice. Alot selected DM anyway so it's better to have a mix. I would like to see proper team leaderboards etc and private BGs for tournaments as improvements.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Any Offical post links on the plans with Procs ?

It was in the original post about the testing: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7153201#Comment_7153201