Lightning staffs are they pointless now?

giantpixie

AyaDark wrote: »

giantpixie wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

And you already make frost staff unplayable garbage for a lot of people including me, so stop such ideas already.

Ask for new weapon if you want any changes in it. We are good with one we have.

Do not want get some garbage again from our favorite weapons, becouse some one who even will not use it is so cared about it, and can not use it in right direction.

Ice staffs are great now and are wanted in groups the changes to them are great so why would changes to lightning be bad?

It is so greate that i hate tanks with frost staffs from before last update, do not use it on my own tank when it was reworked, becouse 2 main reasons i use it for was removed.

Do you see to much DD with it ?

Do you use it your own by the way ?

Why you ask about lightning staff then ?

You are tank ? Why do not you use frost staff and ask about lightning then ?

If all is so good ?

Why do you hate tanks with ice staffs? The changes to ice staffs are perfect for them and yeah I do use them on my tank.

I main a healer who used to always use lightning for the off balance but with no more exploiter passive it’s lost it’s use on the support role and I would like to see it have use on healers again since dps are better with inferno like others have mentioned already and ice are tanks I would like lightning to benefit healers

lQrukl

Altmer
Sorc (+5% lightining damage)
1100 CP

Tested Zaan + Siroria + Medusa (staff) setup

Lightining Medusa Staff + Lightining glyph + Lightining Perfect Maelstorm Staff = ~84 000 dps
Inferno Medusa Staff + Fire glyph + Inferno Perfect Maelstorm Staff = ~92 000 dps

RIP Electromancer concept
Why does zos hate any idea that not include inferno staff? Its so much important moment for players that come from single besethda games: criomancer, electromancer, pyro... well we have DK, but he is slave of mele zone, it could not be called a true Mage

Benoftheflies

They should make the light attack either deal damage to one other enemy or make it an AOE, or in some way allow you to receive the AOE damage boost for light attacks. Fire staves has ST boost, which helps the light attacks, and engulfing flames from DK helps fire light attacks, and the new fire monster helm. Lightning LA cannot keep up.

FrancisCrawford

Lighting staffs have one use that is more important than ever -- XP farming.

My most used frontbar weapon these days is a Mad Tinkerer's Lightning Staff. The spammable on that bar is usually Elemental Ring.

argouru

I still prefer the 'beam' effect of lightning over the wind up and shoot style of flame and frost staves. I feel beams are better against moving enemies and you do damage right away without the chance of missing if they move as you wind up to shoot.

Jamerth

argouru wrote: »

I still prefer the 'beam' effect of lightning over the wind up and shoot style of flame and frost staves. I feel beams are better against moving enemies and you do damage right away without the chance of missing if they move as you wind up to shoot.

This right here.

I've tried fire staves, loved these, but with high ping like mine you end up missing like crazy, while lightning always finds it's target.

grumpy_pants95

giantpixie wrote: »

As of the new update going live it’s looking like tanks and healers will be switching to ice staffs of inferno in some cases which kinda makes lightning staffs pointless. I’m curious if you guys have any suggestions to make them useful again?

They are still useful and important for different builds and classes. If you don't like them nor set up for AOE damage, then it's pointless making the whole "kinda makes lightning staves* pointless".

If you build your char for AOE damage then go for lightning staff, if you don't, the you'd probably be better of using frost/flame. Simple as that.

As for healer/tank, i see no problems in using lightning staves whatsoever. I use one for my necro healer, it's probably performing overall better since U29. Tank is fine either way with any type of staff depending on how they are intend to play that tank.

Overall, my sorcerer is much happier with the lightning staves now than it was prior to U29. I've still got the same gear set up, same skill setup however it performs overall better.

So in my opinion, lightning staves aren't useless nor "not good". They do what they are intended to do just pretty much like always, Boost AOE damage, provide Off Balance, have great Heavy attack in AOE damage and also make you look like a GOD of lightning.

kojou

The off balance thing makes a Shock staff less useful for a tank, but they still have a boost to AoE.

I would have liked the combat team to make the light attacks a small AoE to compensate for the loss of the Exploiter passive, but at least they still count for the sticker book.

ThePedge

lQrukl wrote: »

Altmer
Sorc (+5% lightining damage)
1100 CP

Tested Zaan + Siroria + Medusa (staff) setup

Lightining Medusa Staff + Lightining glyph + Lightining Perfect Maelstorm Staff = ~84 000 dps
Inferno Medusa Staff + Fire glyph + Inferno Perfect Maelstorm Staff = ~92 000 dps

RIP Electromancer concept
Why does zos hate any idea that not include inferno staff? Its so much important moment for players that come from single besethda games: criomancer, electromancer, pyro... well we have DK, but he is slave of mele zone, it could not be called a true Mage

So you compared a Single target parse with one setup focused on single target staff bonus, and one on AoE staff bonus.

And you do not like how the staff designed for single target damage has more single target damage than an AoE designed staff?

Every DD in a decent raid group will use lightning staffs on Trash/Adds. I highly doubt that counts as pointless.

lQrukl

So you compared a Single target parse with one setup focused on single target staff bonus, and one on AoE staff bonus.

The problem is not that staff for single target damage deals more damage to a single target.

The problem is the existence of such division. You are not be able to balance your build in such a way as to get tangible benefits from the type of staff you like.

Gameplay dictates which staff you must use by itself. It's horrible.

katorga

Lightning is good for some things, not for others. If you do the things it is good for, use it.

YandereGirlfriend

There are a bunch of different good ideas going on in this thread:

• Creating a unique debuff for Shock Staves a la Minor Brittle for Frost Staves
• Fixing the Ancient Knowledge passive for Shock Staves to make it more competitive with an Inferno Staff
• Sorcerer-specific changes that would establish the Shock Staff as its preferred weapon type

Rather than choosing only one of these, I would suggest that we instead choose ALL of them. That's the only way that Shock Staves stand a chance of ever competing with Inferno Staves in PvE DPS.

For a unique debuff, I do quite like the idea that @WrathOfInnos had for creating a reverse Empower that increases Light/Heavy Attack damage against a given target (this would also assist solo Heavy Attack players). If you gave that debuff the same stipulation for wielding a Shock Staff that Minor Brittle has for wielding a Frost Staff then you have guaranteed at least one slot for a player using a Shock Staff on their main bar.

As for balancing Ancient Knowledge... I'll leave that to someone else. There have been many ideas advanced recently that all have relative degrees of merit. The one thing that everyone agrees on is that something needs to change.

For Sorcerer-specific buffs, the first and most obvious is simply increasing the Energized passive to deal +10% Shock Damage (and presumably +10% Physical Damage). This would put their specific elemental affinity buff on the same level as the Warden which is, IMO, the target that we should be aiming for and that stands as an example of an elemental buff done correctly.

In addition, Sorcerers should have some deeper engagement with the Concussed status effect in the same general vein as DKs have with Burning/Poisoned (sustain, damage) and that Wardens have with Chilled (damage). Since the Sorcerer class already has an affinity with Spell/Weapon Damage, such an interaction could be something like: "Spell/Weapon Damage is increased by 300 (or whatever) when using Shock/Physical Damage attacks against targets afflicted with the Concussed status effect." This would help steer magSorcs away from using Inferno Staves as well as incentivize loading up their bars with as many Shock Damage abilities as possible.

Finally, the Sorcerer needs its own version of Engulfing Flames to help even the odds against Flame Damage. As @Bodycounter suggested, tying a unique 10% Shock Damage Taken to the Conduit synergy would be an amazing implementation of this that solves several related problems in a single stroke (e.g. the under-powered nature of Lightning Splash, the Conduit synergy being boring, and creating a unique debuff for Shock Damage). You could also give Lightning Splash the same +300% chance for inflicting status effects that the Impaling Shards morphs have.

The sum total of those changes should do wonders for establishing Sorcerers as the premier Shock Mage class as well as increase Shock Staff viability for other classes as well.

jwellsub17_ESO2

Benoftheflies wrote: »

They should make the light attack either deal damage to one other enemy or make it an AOE

I could have sworn it does affect multiple targets already... When I have a group of opponents and zap-em with my light stick they all seem to take damage.

karekiz

+ for giving Shock Staves empower as a buff similar to brittle <Double bar for most uptime etc>
+ for updating Sorc Lightning Passive in some form - be it through a straight increase to the 5% or add a unique debuff to Conduit <Preferred to conduit>.

Tannus15

It's crazy to me that wall of fire gets the +20% damage bonus on targets with burning and lightning only gets off balance.
sure, you can get 8% aoe damage, but flame gets straight up %20 more damage. Whut?

It's also insane to me that the damage bonus you get is based on the staff you are holding, so running a lightning staff back bar is of no benefit at all, you just get a worse version of unstable wall. There is literally no reason to run a lightning staff back bar, ever.

WrathOfInnos

Tannus15 wrote: »

It's crazy to me that wall of fire gets the +20% damage bonus on targets with burning and lightning only gets off balance.
sure, you can get 8% aoe damage, but flame gets straight up %20 more damage. Whut?

It's also insane to me that the damage bonus you get is based on the staff you are holding, so running a lightning staff back bar is of no benefit at all, you just get a worse version of unstable wall. There is literally no reason to run a lightning staff back bar, ever.

To be fair, 20% more Wall damage only results in 1-2% DPS, so I wouldn’t say the unique effect is overpowered, but as long as Lightning has basically no effect it will remain unused. Engulfing Flames and Encratis Behemoth are a big part of the imbalance as well, I can’t believe nothing similar exists for Lightning yet.

It’s funny how much the meta has shifted, because a few years ago every Magicka DPS was running Lightning Wall for higher off balance uptime. That was when off-balance had no cooldown/immunity period, and it was removed every time someone cast Flame Lash or Heavy Attacked. 20% more damage to one DoT was weak compared to the group benefits of stacking off-balance procs.

Tannus15

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

It's crazy to me that wall of fire gets the +20% damage bonus on targets with burning and lightning only gets off balance.
sure, you can get 8% aoe damage, but flame gets straight up %20 more damage. Whut?

It's also insane to me that the damage bonus you get is based on the staff you are holding, so running a lightning staff back bar is of no benefit at all, you just get a worse version of unstable wall. There is literally no reason to run a lightning staff back bar, ever.

To be fair, 20% more Wall damage only results in 1-2% DPS, so I wouldn’t say the unique effect is overpowered, but as long as Lightning has basically no effect it will remain unused. Engulfing Flames and Encratis Behemoth are a big part of the imbalance as well, I can’t believe nothing similar exists for Lightning yet.

It’s funny how much the meta has shifted, because a few years ago every Magicka DPS was running Lightning Wall for higher off balance uptime. That was when off-balance had no cooldown/immunity period, and it was removed every time someone cast Flame Lash or Heavy Attacked. 20% more damage to one DoT was weak compared to the group benefits of stacking off-balance procs.

Yup, and minor vulnerability was also an important de-buff to maintain, however now it's one of the most common debuffs. RIP infal.

WrathOfInnos

Tannus15 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

It's crazy to me that wall of fire gets the +20% damage bonus on targets with burning and lightning only gets off balance.
sure, you can get 8% aoe damage, but flame gets straight up %20 more damage. Whut?

It's also insane to me that the damage bonus you get is based on the staff you are holding, so running a lightning staff back bar is of no benefit at all, you just get a worse version of unstable wall. There is literally no reason to run a lightning staff back bar, ever.

To be fair, 20% more Wall damage only results in 1-2% DPS, so I wouldn’t say the unique effect is overpowered, but as long as Lightning has basically no effect it will remain unused. Engulfing Flames and Encratis Behemoth are a big part of the imbalance as well, I can’t believe nothing similar exists for Lightning yet.

It’s funny how much the meta has shifted, because a few years ago every Magicka DPS was running Lightning Wall for higher off balance uptime. That was when off-balance had no cooldown/immunity period, and it was removed every time someone cast Flame Lash or Heavy Attacked. 20% more damage to one DoT was weak compared to the group benefits of stacking off-balance procs.

Yup, and minor vulnerability was also an important de-buff to maintain, however now it's one of the most common debuffs. RIP infal.

Wow, I almost forgot about that being used. Weren’t we told IA was going to get an updated effect like 2-3 years ago? Still waiting...

Maxdevil

Wuerstal wrote: »

They will still be used in thrash-fights by damage dealers. But I agree that they now feel kinda pointless. In bossfights froststaff can be used by healers for brittle and more defences. Inferno can be used to increase damage. Lightning can be used for..... I honestly don't know. Offbalance still exists but you don't really get much out of it.. Except for magDKs when playing flame leash I can't think of anything offbalance is really interesting anymore.

Maybe they are more usefull in PvP? I don't pvp that much, so I wouldn't know.

Concussion-status effect applies Minor Vulnerability which you can get from alot of other skills.. Maybe the concussion status effect should be changed to another debuff that isn't as easy to come by?

Lightning staff are only good for magplar in pvp for sweep but because magplar doesn’t need any destruction staff ability, if dual wild or 2handed could restore magicka the lightning staff would become useless in pvp

grumpy_pants95

lQrukl wrote: »

So you compared a Single target parse with one setup focused on single target staff bonus, and one on AoE staff bonus.

The problem is not that staff for single target damage deals more damage to a single target.

The problem is the existence of such division. You are not be able to balance your build in such a way as to get tangible benefits from the type of staff you like.

Gameplay dictates which staff you must use by itself. It's horrible.

I disagree, quite massively and i think you need to look again at what each staff do..

lQrukl

I disagree, quite massively and i think you need to look again at what each staff do..

Oh, i looked at them preeety close:

Fire staff is the only magical weapon for dd

Ice Staff is crusher glyph uptimer + drain source for tanks.

Lightining staff is useless trash worth only for cralgorn's trashpacks farming.

Almost the same for elemental glyphs.

ResidentContrarian

Illambris will be proccing lightning and fire at the same time again. If you use 2x destro, there's one use.

YandereGirlfriend

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Illambris will be proccing lightning and fire at the same time again. If you use 2x destro, there's one use.

True, but the upcoming patch will be dumpstering all monster sets so you'd really be better off just using the Mythic or Slimecraw/Grundwulf one-pieces.

Tannus15

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Illambris will be proccing lightning and fire at the same time again. If you use 2x destro, there's one use.

better off just running force pulse

Fizzyapple

I don't know about lighting in PVE but in PVP its very strong and if you use Stuhn's Favor like I do its a total no brainer for your backbar. With an infused shock enchant it almost guarantees off-balance which means that I don't need to worry about using skills on my front bar just for the off-balance effect.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Welcome to last year!

LeonAkando

Nearly a year later, with a one-year retrospective: Yes, lightning staves are pointless now.

The excessive benefits to fire damage (morph, burning, engulfing, encratis, destro passives) have left shock staves completely undesirable even to the class that is supposed to use them. Not too unlike Frost, however Frost staves on Magdens are actually stronger than any lightning variant.

It's a shame too, at the very minimum lightning staves should be preferable on magsorcs.

Ythotha

giantpixie wrote: »

As of the new update going live it’s looking like tanks and healers will be switching to ice staffs of inferno in some cases which kinda makes lightning staffs pointless. I’m curious if you guys have any suggestions to make them useful again?

They were always kind of pointless next to fire staff, more aoe damage is lame cuz you wont struggle in trash fights, killing groups .5 seconds faster is not even worth swapping it from fire. Also dk increases enemy fire damage taken which is a thing in trials.

Amottica

Ythotha wrote: »

giantpixie wrote: »

As of the new update going live it’s looking like tanks and healers will be switching to ice staffs of inferno in some cases which kinda makes lightning staffs pointless. I’m curious if you guys have any suggestions to make them useful again?

They were always kind of pointless next to fire staff, more aoe damage is lame cuz you wont struggle in trash fights, killing groups .5 seconds faster is not even worth swapping it from fire. Also dk increases enemy fire damage taken which is a thing in trials.

They used to be BiS for most staff builds to the point they were heavily used by top raid groups.

dcam86b14_ESO

Idk maybe I'm garbage but I love my lightning staff bc I don't have to worry about the attack missing in cyro