The game just got much worse

WolfyRaps

"Today in Cyro I played my magsorc (half the players in no proc Cyro are sorcerers) and got my Kill 40 done in three minutes. I also played my 55k HP and 6k HP regen werewolf and ran around kiting and trolling 10 players until I got tired of it and went back in the keep. And this is all with "no proc" sets. And it's boring as hell!

I've spent hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours farming different sets that I could theorycraft with. The most fun for me is testing out different combinations of gear, and coming up with builds that others don't run. The best part of it is when people whisper me asking about my builds. But I sucked it up and played along with the test because ZOS told me they needed data to see how procs affected the performance. And nobody would be happier than me if they use the data to make the game run smoother for everyone.

What they didn't tell me is that they had a hidden agenda that they were going to spring on us out of the blue, before the test period was even over. If they had told me ahead of time that they were planning to deny me access to 95% of the gear I have worked so hard and spent so much to get for at least half a year, I would never have taken part in the "test."

My Cyro playing time had dropped off during the test, and there's honestly no reason for me to increase it now. I'll probably do the minimum necessary to get my daily rucksack, and then log off. What's most disappointing to me is that there are no real alternatives, and ZOS knows it. [snip]

[edited to trolling and baiting]

Sangwyne

PvP is not the only aspect of this game. Many changes have been made to the detriment of PvE players over the years as a direct result of complaints in PvP; the current no-proc test is entirely due to player feedback regarding PvP as well. ZOS does clearly listen to concerns in PvP, far more so than the flip side of the game, despite it making up a relatively small portion of the population compared to PvE players, and I'm not sure how you are unable to see that. The entire reason there aren't any worthwhile competitors for that style of PvP gameplay is precisely because ZOS invests such an absurd amount of effort, budget, and balance changes into PvP, often at the expense of the rest of the game. Please just be happy that you are their golden child, you already draw so much attention from them that is desperately needed to address other areas.

Seraphayel

I don’t really know how I find these posts. People playing the most OP builds (MagSorc and Werewolf, hello - maybe your Stamcro and Stamden ok top of that?) and then complain that their OP sets aren’t working and their OP build without proc sets is boring.

Maybe play something that’s hard to play, not completely overpowered and broken and see how that works out and it it’s still boring?

WolfyRaps

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don’t really know how I find these posts. People playing the most OP builds (MagSorc and Werewolf, hello - maybe your Stamcro and Stamden ok top of that?) and then complain that their OP sets aren’t working and their OP build without proc sets is boring.

Maybe play something that’s hard to play, not completely overpowered and broken and see how that works out and it it’s still boring?

As a competitive gamer I will always play what allows me to win. The only difference is that before I had variaty, I had theorycrafting and 30 builds to play or play against. Now I have one class and one build to snipe them all..

FENGRUSH

Sangwyne wrote: »

The entire reason there aren't any worthwhile competitors for that style of PvP gameplay is precisely because ZOS invests such an absurd amount of effort, budget, and balance changes into PvP, often at the expense of the rest of the game.

Not sure what game you're playing.

LoveForElderScrolls

WolfyRaps wrote: »

But they know that if we want this type of gameplay.... they're the only gas station for the next 100 miles, and we'll pay to fill the tank, regardless of how much it costs or how they treat us."

If people don't talk about it, they will keep treating players like this. We have to talk about it more often so the rest of the people who feel this way can join the movement.

Valabrog

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don’t really know how I find these posts. People playing the most OP builds (MagSorc and Werewolf, hello - maybe your Stamcro and Stamden ok top of that?) and then complain that their OP sets aren’t working and their OP build without proc sets is boring.

Maybe play something that’s hard to play, not completely overpowered and broken and see how that works out and it it’s still boring?

Ehm, do you understand that ZOS disabled all the sets, not just Crimson or Zaan? Im a newbie, spent 1 month farming golden mats to upgrade my only PVP sets i decided to buy on trader - New moon and Eternal vigor, which has no ACTUAL proc, just increased flat stats (weapon damage, regen), and Balorgh, which I farmed for 2 weeks. You cant compare my sets of Venomous, Crimson, Zaan, Darkness etc etc. There were 200 sets that werent good, but which could be used buy clever players to mix and match new interesting builds, thats what werewolf wanted to say - he is still immortal without proc sets, but lost interest in Cyro, because he wasnt playing only Sorc and wolf...

So I, personally, just wount play Cyro because I cant, it will take another month for me to farm mats/buy 3 of those 10% boring flat sets which are left for us..Like hundings and spriggan..

Seraphayel

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don’t really know how I find these posts. People playing the most OP builds (MagSorc and Werewolf, hello - maybe your Stamcro and Stamden ok top of that?) and then complain that their OP sets aren’t working and their OP build without proc sets is boring.

Maybe play something that’s hard to play, not completely overpowered and broken and see how that works out and it it’s still boring?

As a competitive gamer I will always play what allows me to win. The only difference is that before I had variaty, I had theorycrafting and 30 builds to play or play against. Now I have one class and one build to snipe them all..

30 builds to play? You realize that these builds all were fueled by the exact same handful of sets and therefore all players - more or less - worked exactly the same way?

If competitive means to always play what’s overpowered, I really question how competitive this really is - to get carried by sets or OP builds doesn’t shine a good light on the skill and competitiveness of the player who‘s resorting to tactics like these. Relying on your build, skills and personal skill is more skillful then having procs save you from dying or killing people - in my opinion.

ArchMikem

WolfyRaps wrote: »

If there were a competitive PvP AvAvA game out today,

You don't look around much, do you. I've been playing one for years, for longer than I have ESO even.

WolfyRaps

Seraphayel wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don’t really know how I find these posts. People playing the most OP builds (MagSorc and Werewolf, hello - maybe your Stamcro and Stamden ok top of that?) and then complain that their OP sets aren’t working and their OP build without proc sets is boring.

Maybe play something that’s hard to play, not completely overpowered and broken and see how that works out and it it’s still boring?

As a competitive gamer I will always play what allows me to win. The only difference is that before I had variaty, I had theorycrafting and 30 builds to play or play against. Now I have one class and one build to snipe them all..

30 builds to play? You realize that these builds all were fueled by the exact same handful of sets and therefore all players - more or less - worked exactly the same?

If competitive means to always play what’s overpowered, I really question how competitive this really is - to get carried by sets or OP builds doesn’t shine a good light on the skill and competitiveness of the player who‘s resorting to tactics like these.

Wrong. I have a completly different PVP builds on all my chars.. sometimes 3 different build per char.. not that I can use them now..

Seraphayel

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don’t really know how I find these posts. People playing the most OP builds (MagSorc and Werewolf, hello - maybe your Stamcro and Stamden ok top of that?) and then complain that their OP sets aren’t working and their OP build without proc sets is boring.

Maybe play something that’s hard to play, not completely overpowered and broken and see how that works out and it it’s still boring?

As a competitive gamer I will always play what allows me to win. The only difference is that before I had variaty, I had theorycrafting and 30 builds to play or play against. Now I have one class and one build to snipe them all..

30 builds to play? You realize that these builds all were fueled by the exact same handful of sets and therefore all players - more or less - worked exactly the same?

If competitive means to always play what’s overpowered, I really question how competitive this really is - to get carried by sets or OP builds doesn’t shine a good light on the skill and competitiveness of the player who‘s resorting to tactics like these.

Wrong. I have a completly different PVP builds on all my chars.. sometimes 3 different build per char.. not that I can use them now..

Yet all of them somehow only worked with procs that kept you alive or killed your enemy and therefore aren’t working anymore?

WolfyRaps

Seraphayel wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don’t really know how I find these posts. People playing the most OP builds (MagSorc and Werewolf, hello - maybe your Stamcro and Stamden ok top of that?) and then complain that their OP sets aren’t working and their OP build without proc sets is boring.

Maybe play something that’s hard to play, not completely overpowered and broken and see how that works out and it it’s still boring?

As a competitive gamer I will always play what allows me to win. The only difference is that before I had variaty, I had theorycrafting and 30 builds to play or play against. Now I have one class and one build to snipe them all..

30 builds to play? You realize that these builds all were fueled by the exact same handful of sets and therefore all players - more or less - worked exactly the same?

If competitive means to always play what’s overpowered, I really question how competitive this really is - to get carried by sets or OP builds doesn’t shine a good light on the skill and competitiveness of the player who‘s resorting to tactics like these.

Wrong. I have a completly different PVP builds on all my chars.. sometimes 3 different build per char.. not that I can use them now..

Yet all of them somehow only worked with procs that kept you alive or killed your enemy and therefore aren’t working anymore?

Some yes. Some are max stat builds. My magsorc always worked best with max statbuilds.. and this is why it is the only thing that is viable right now..

MKintr

WolfyRaps wrote: »

If they had told me ahead of time that they were planning to deny me access to 95% of the gear I have worked so hard and spent so much to get for at least half a year
....

Yes. [snip] I said this before and predicted that it wouldn't even touch the problem. And it was exactly so.

[Edited for conspiracy theories]

hakan

Sangwyne wrote: »

PvP is not the only aspect of this game. Many changes have been made to the detriment of PvE players over the years as a direct result of complaints in PvP; the current no-proc test is entirely due to player feedback regarding PvP as well. ZOS does clearly listen to concerns in PvP, far more so than the flip side of the game, despite it making up a relatively small portion of the population compared to PvE players, and I'm not sure how you are unable to see that. The entire reason there aren't any worthwhile competitors for that style of PvP gameplay is precisely because ZOS invests such an absurd amount of effort, budget, and balance changes into PvP, often at the expense of the rest of the game. Please just be happy that you are their golden child, you already draw so much attention from them that is desperately needed to address other areas.

this comment pops up everytime when there is a pvp thread.

first of if the pvp players are the truly the less populated compared to the other type of players, then it doesnt make sense zos to focus on them since they are profit based company right? what you said doesnt make sense.

and i dont think pvp players are low count compared to pve either. When someone talks about pve they mean veteran content which mostly includes pvp players too. The rest easier content doesnt matter for balancing, players wont see any significant change anyway.

and yeah zos listens pvp player base. riiiight.. its not like we have lags, perf issues and balancing issues. so much for "catering pvp".

oh and pve causes a lot of nerfs too. racials, crit changes, some set nerfs etc. so whats your point again?

tsaescishoeshiner

Procs are still allowed in IC. If you're really that confident, there's nothing like the thrill of fighting someone with a few thousand Tel Var on the line. Or tens of thousands. Or a hundred thousand.

I'm not good enough to run around with more than 5k Tel Var comfortably, but it does really push the excitement to have money on the line. I recommend topside for more action and faster rezzes, downstairs for more adventure

WolfyRaps

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Procs are still allowed in IC. If you're really that confident, there's nothing like the thrill of fighting someone with a few thousand Tel Var on the line. Or tens of thousands. Or a hundred thousand.

I'm not good enough to run around with more than 5k Tel Var comfortably, but it does really push the excitement to have money on the line. I recommend topside for more action and faster rezzes, downstairs for more adventure

The type of gameplay that you are describing heavily favours stamblade or magsorc or whatever class can escape..

It is quite annoying whan you are confidently playing your stamcro that can beat just about anyone in 1v1 but you get rolled by a train of 10 enemies or by a coordinated team of 3 equally good players when you run solo or in 2... with no chance of escaping..

DjinnAeternam

I completely agree with OP here, also played during tests to "help" getting numbers with the idea they would get to the conclusion we all have by now - game performance is bad even with no-procs.

If they listened to players like they said, regarding fairness and balance of PvP, why didn't they disabled procsets for all PVP areas? Doesn't add up right? - They argument with one reason for a change, and then same reason isn't valid anymore for other cases.

PvP in Cyro is boring now, the lack of sets exacerbated the class meta, everyone runs in the same builds, no diversity to theorycraft upon, and i do mean even not considering broken procsets like mala/crimson/vate/brp staff/etc..

There's a lot more sets that experienced players lost to this "test", and some have nothing to do with no-skills builds.

Cyrodiil seems to be pushed more and more to casuals, with these changes, as some of us are getting bored and tired of non-sense changes.

Just to make it clear, Cyrodiil still lags and altough performance got a bit better, it's still bad (PC-EU nCP), AoE check skills also struggle to work in busy areas during primetime, sometimes they don't even work at all.

(Ex: Shuffle ; Braided Tether ; Necrotic Potency ; just to name a few)

Barbara73

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

I completely agree with OP here, also played during tests to "help" getting numbers with the idea they would get to the conclusion we all have by now - game performance is bad even with no-procs.

If they listened to players like they said, regarding fairness and balance of PvP, why didn't they disabled procsets for all PVP areas? Doesn't add up right? - They argument with one reason for a change, and then same reason isn't valid anymore for other cases.

PvP in Cyro is boring now, the lack of sets exacerbated the class meta, everyone runs in the same builds, no diversity to theorycraft upon, and i do mean even not considering broken procsets like mala/crimson/vate/brp staff/etc..

There's a lot more sets that experienced players lost to this "test", and some have nothing to do with no-skills builds.

Cyrodiil seems to be pushed more and more to casuals, with these changes, as some of us are getting bored and tired of non-sense changes.

Just to make it clear, Cyrodiil still lags and altough performance got a bit better, it's still bad (PC-EU nCP), AoE check skills also struggle to work in busy areas during primetime, sometimes they don't even work at all.

(Ex: Shuffle ; Braided Tether ; Necrotic Potency ; just to name a few)

But that's what all the people posting complaints about PVP wanted all of us running around with the same rock and stick beating each other senseless. No we just have to outthink the competition and use bigger sticks and rocks.

[Edited for Misinformation]

WolfyRaps

Barbara73 wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

I completely agree with OP here, also played during tests to "help" getting numbers with the idea they would get to the conclusion we all have by now - game performance is bad even with no-procs.

If they listened to players like they said, regarding fairness and balance of PvP, why didn't they disabled procsets for all PVP areas? Doesn't add up right? - They argument with one reason for a change, and then same reason isn't valid anymore for other cases.

PvP in Cyro is boring now, the lack of sets exacerbated the class meta, everyone runs in the same builds, no diversity to theorycraft upon, and i do mean even not considering broken procsets like mala/crimson/vate/brp staff/etc..

There's a lot more sets that experienced players lost to this "test", and some have nothing to do with no-skills builds.

Cyrodiil seems to be pushed more and more to casuals, with these changes, as some of us are getting bored and tired of non-sense changes.

Just to make it clear, Cyrodiil still lags and altough performance got a bit better, it's still bad (PC-EU nCP), AoE check skills also struggle to work in busy areas during primetime, sometimes they don't even work at all.

(Ex: Shuffle ; Braided Tether ; Necrotic Potency ; just to name a few)

But that's what all the people posting complaints about PVP wanted all of us running around with the same rock and stick beating each other senseless. No we just have to outthink the competition and use bigger sticks and rocks.

[Edited for Misinformation]

The character building was the most interesting part of this game. Taking it away almost kills the game for me and a lot of people.

Neiska

Not a pvper myself but I can sympathize with the frustration of spending hours perfecting a build, farming the gear to do so, and have much of that time and effort bungled in a single update. That said however,

I think that would be fair to say out of any game, or activity. Not Just PvP.

I know next to nothing about PVP here, and to claim otherwise would be dishonest. But I can offer words of encouragement and motivation. Perhaps it might be better to see this as a challenge or the next goal? Who knows, maybe you discover the next big thing that everyone copies next? It does kind of suck that only a handful of items are valid now. (at least from what I gathered in the conversation, by all means correct me if I am have the wrong impression.)

And honestly I do feel bad for you guys. From an outsider looking in, I have only seen downgrades and adjustments, nothing new to my limited knowledge. If the entire scene is stale now, wouldn't the numbers of pvp'ers drop off? I mean, I am just guessing here but it certainly gets boring to me when I fight that goblin chieftain for the 3524th time.

But I do have a suggestion with my encouragement. In another game, in another situation the pvp'ers set up their own league within the pvp system itself. It was an honor system, so I have no idea if that would even work. They had their own score keepers, their own discord and so on. From what I recall about it they had matches such as "white items" only or "green items" only or "no sets", I recall watching one where it was pick axes and fishing poles only. Or no healing.

Honestly a lot of the matches were really funny to watch.

But like I said it was based on the honor system, which I have no idea how tight-knit the pvp community is here, so that may or may not work. They largely policed themselves from what I recall. But they had their own area off in the corner of the PVP zone that everyone knew about, and it was very much sort of a "gentlemen's agreement" sort of atmosphere. But cheaters and griefers were pretty quick to get shunned from what I know.

Anyway, just please know not all die hard PVE folks have distaste for you guys. I feel bad for you lot too. To me gamers are gamers. No hate for the pvp crowd, but it's just not my bag of tea. But I can certainly empathize with those gamers like myself who had their favored playstyle upended unexpectedly.

Merllow

Zos see the statistics and according to it one can see that life has returned to Cyrodiil. With proc or without a proc in pvp, you still have the opportunity to do whatever you have conceived and is more and more balanced. And of these 15 sets that we have access to, some have long been studied and are in the collection, and some can be crafted, it is not clear why people start to invent about the fact that you have to spend a lot of time to create your own gear. Wait for autumn, you were told that they will rework the code and return some of the sets.

Emmagoldman

We're playing a alpha game at this point and no matter what, it's going to be rocky with the changes to armor and cp. Personally I generally like the changes but it obviously needs work.

Cyro is a mess with each band aid fix falling short. It's good effort and I do think ZOS is trying, but obvious that the problem is deeper.

I also get people are feeling bored. There is something like 480 sets in game and we are limited to 18. And no, not each "proc set" is ruining the game. Even with no proc, there will be a clear meta between the 18 sets.

Yet, It's obvious that the model of releasing powerful gear to help push content is a problem. So then we are left with crimson, malcath ect, all of which could use small adjustments and be better in line. Of course all procs firing off of one hit is also problematic.

It's a wall of text, but if there is a time to redraw pvp, this is really that time. Personally I'm getting bored of running around in Cyro. Two pvp zones since being released in 2013? Design smaller pvp or objective zones that the server could manage and spread out players.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/564249/there-is-no-better-time-to-completely-overhaul-pvp-than-now#latest

Jeffrey530

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don’t really know how I find these posts. People playing the most OP builds (MagSorc and Werewolf, hello - maybe your Stamcro and Stamden ok top of that?) and then complain that their OP sets aren’t working and their OP build without proc sets is boring.

Maybe play something that’s hard to play, not completely overpowered and broken and see how that works out and it it’s still boring?

As a competitive gamer I will always play what allows me to win. The only difference is that before I had variaty, I had theorycrafting and 30 builds to play or play against. Now I have one class and one build to snipe them all..

Imagine correlating competitive gaming with ESO pvp.

iksde

WolfyRaps wrote: »

"Today in Cyro I played my magsorc (half the players in no proc Cyro are sorcerers) and got my Kill 40 done in three minutes. I also played my 55k HP and 6k HP regen werewolf and ran around kiting and trolling 10 players until I got tired of it and went back in the keep. And this is all with "no proc" sets. And it's boring as hell!

so maybe go play something which is not know as kill stealing class with one of the best burst combos and also play something to actually play pvp rather than as you described it "trolling" few players around tree, rock or tower

preevious

As a fellow human being, I'm genuinely sad for our pvp friends .. that's a bit rough ..



As a crafter, though ... ShackleBreaker for sale !




Joke aside, though, there might indeed be something unethical in barring sets from DLC bought only for that purpose ..

Kiralyn2000

WolfyRaps wrote: »

What they didn't tell me is that they had a hidden agenda that they were going to spring on us out of the blue, before the test period was even over. If they had told me ahead of time that they were planning to deny me access to 95% of the gear I have worked so hard and spent so much to get for at least half a year, I would never have taken part in the "test."

Welcome to MMOs. Either due to "balance" patches, expansions that change the mechanics, or other things; they regularly "mess up" people's carefully theorycrafted builds and make them go back to the drawing board.

I've been seeing this happen, in multiple games, for over 15 years. It's part of the genre. Be happy you're playing ESO, so each expansion doesn't up the level cap and entirely invalidate 100% of the gear you collected in the 1-2 years since the last level cap increase.

BalticBlues

WolfyRaps wrote: »

"I've spent hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours farming different sets that I could theorycraft with. The most fun for me is testing out different combinations of gear"

+1

Cyro PvP essentially is years old.
It always was the new DLC sets bringing it to new life.
However, with only boring old sets to play PvP now - why buy any DLC now?

AlextheMuspel

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

What they didn't tell me is that they had a hidden agenda that they were going to spring on us out of the blue, before the test period was even over. If they had told me ahead of time that they were planning to deny me access to 95% of the gear I have worked so hard and spent so much to get for at least half a year, I would never have taken part in the "test."

Welcome to MMOs. Either due to "balance" patches, expansions that change the mechanics, or other things; they regularly "mess up" people's carefully theorycrafted builds and make them go back to the drawing board.

I've been seeing this happen, in multiple games, for over 15 years. It's part of the genre. Be happy you're playing ESO, so each expansion doesn't up the level cap and entirely invalidate 100% of the gear you collected in the 1-2 years since the last level cap increase.

Except for ESO isn’t WOW, and for ESO players, a update that invalidates everything they’ve worked hard for is NOT something they’d expect.

Balancing is like skating on the thin ice, you can easily break the balance even with changes that seem minor. And that’s OK, devs gotta grasp the delicate balance eventually from trial and error, at least in other PvP games.

Is that the case with ESO? Hell no. Just look at the laughable state of the game, and you’ll know how ridiculously lazy the decision makers are. They NEVER learn, and that’s why so many players are disappointed.

Kiralyn2000

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

What they didn't tell me is that they had a hidden agenda that they were going to spring on us out of the blue, before the test period was even over. If they had told me ahead of time that they were planning to deny me access to 95% of the gear I have worked so hard and spent so much to get for at least half a year, I would never have taken part in the "test."

Welcome to MMOs. Either due to "balance" patches, expansions that change the mechanics, or other things; they regularly "mess up" people's carefully theorycrafted builds and make them go back to the drawing board.

I've been seeing this happen, in multiple games, for over 15 years. It's part of the genre. Be happy you're playing ESO, so each expansion doesn't up the level cap and entirely invalidate 100% of the gear you collected in the 1-2 years since the last level cap increase.

Except for ESO isn’t WOW, and for ESO players, a update that invalidates everything they’ve worked hard for is NOT something they’d expect.

It's still an MMO. And I've seen, for years, this forum explode with "OMG, they've ruined EVERYTHING!" whenever they do one of their combat rebalances. So I'm not surprised at it happening here, at all. /shrug
(if anything, I'm surprised at people being surprised by it.)

BlackSparrow

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Welcome to MMOs. Either due to "balance" patches, expansions that change the mechanics, or other things; they regularly "mess up" people's carefully theorycrafted builds and make them go back to the drawing board.

I've been seeing this happen, in multiple games, for over 15 years. It's part of the genre. Be happy you're playing ESO, so each expansion doesn't up the level cap and entirely invalidate 100% of the gear you collected in the 1-2 years since the last level cap increase.

My thoughts exactly. This is far from the worst nerf I've seen in any MMO, much less ESO. Cry foul at ZOS if you like, and even leave the game to try other PvP options; you'll find that either they occasionally deliberately tank certain builds and gear in the name of balance--as is the case here--or they DON'T occasionally balance the game, and the PvP slowly gets strangled to death by turning away all but the most hardcore players, since people who don't have time or money to get the best sets just can't compete in that environment. There's no surer way to kill a PvP community than turning away all the filthy casuals.

The good news is that this is a lesson you only need to learn once: never invest something into a character build that you're not willing to lose if the next patch nerfs it. It stinks, but every MMO player just has to take their licks occasionally, especially since the idea of "meta" became a thing. It's just part of the genre.

SeaArcanist

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Barbara73 wrote: »

DjinnAeternam wrote: »

I completely agree with OP here, also played during tests to "help" getting numbers with the idea they would get to the conclusion we all have by now - game performance is bad even with no-procs.

If they listened to players like they said, regarding fairness and balance of PvP, why didn't they disabled procsets for all PVP areas? Doesn't add up right? - They argument with one reason for a change, and then same reason isn't valid anymore for other cases.

PvP in Cyro is boring now, the lack of sets exacerbated the class meta, everyone runs in the same builds, no diversity to theorycraft upon, and i do mean even not considering broken procsets like mala/crimson/vate/brp staff/etc..

There's a lot more sets that experienced players lost to this "test", and some have nothing to do with no-skills builds.

Cyrodiil seems to be pushed more and more to casuals, with these changes, as some of us are getting bored and tired of non-sense changes.

Just to make it clear, Cyrodiil still lags and altough performance got a bit better, it's still bad (PC-EU nCP), AoE check skills also struggle to work in busy areas during primetime, sometimes they don't even work at all.

(Ex: Shuffle ; Braided Tether ; Necrotic Potency ; just to name a few)

But that's what all the people posting complaints about PVP wanted all of us running around with the same rock and stick beating each other senseless. No we just have to outthink the competition and use bigger sticks and rocks.

[Edited for Misinformation]

The character building was the most interesting part of this game. Taking it away almost kills the game for me and a lot of people.

Amen, if your one build couldnt kill sombody you could freely swap to another too. procs or not, some set up beat others. limiting sets only defines an official meta in both build and class. as well as have little no no counters. at least in the "proc meta" we had viriety of choice and if one set up couldnt do the trick, well, we swapped to another.