I feel punished...

Brynhiild

So, the new patch is out and everyone in the game seems happy (not so much on the forums tho). Some heavy changes were made, some are good, some are really bad or useless... Still, i can't ignore the feeling that i'm being punished.

The New CP system is out and he's telling you "see, i'm not completely different, DPS will be the same if you grind some more CP's" but... NO. I'm sorry game but i saw what you just did. Now you need ~250k-300k XP to gain a CP instead of the previous 450k-500k, okay, why not, fine, but that also means that HALF OF THE XP i gained before this update is just deleted from my account ! I mean... WHAT ?
I played the game for years, grinding some CPs to reach the caps, then when i was 600 i stopped having care for it and just hit 880 without noticing... And now the game is telling me : "Look you have to grind more CPs to get the soft cap" and he's taking half of my progression in the process ?!

Why the hell should i be happy to grind AGAIN to hit a [snip] soft cap when the game deletes me about 1 year of XP ?!

Does it seems normal to you that an update litteraly tells you "your progress over the yers don't matter, not even a little bit" ?
Don't get me wrong : i love the game. But it's the first time i have a feeling like this... And i don't think that only for me, i think of every player who gets it too...

[Edited to remove Profanity]

Xuhora

let me count real quick...
thread 10 about this topic, 8 of them in the PTS section.

is my answer helpful to the discussion? certainly not, i just wanted to point out that this topic is discused ad nauseum and no consense has been found to date, not sure if this 11th thread will help the cause?

karthrag_inak

This one agrees, this is unacceptable - cp 1465 before patch, this one should have been scaled. But then again, this one is also khajiit, and his main racial combat benefit was cut in half as well with the "crit is now rare" baloney, so Karth is kind of a ball of discontent at the moment.

Ackwalan

No different then any other game comes out with an expansion and a new level cap.

Gundug

This complaint is like buying a car for $25,000 and driving it for six months, then seeing that the price of the car has dropped to $18,000 and whining about how the dealership stole $7,000 from you.

Brynhiild

Ackwalan wrote: »

No different then any other game comes out with an expansion and a new level cap.

So it makes it okay ? I'm sorry but that's simply not okay. The progress is gained by putting time on the game, if your time don't matter just watch a white wall for hours... At least we should get some kind of compensation for our progress.

Gundug wrote: »

This complaint is like buying a car for $25,000 and driving it for six months, then seeing that the price of the car has dropped to $18,000 and whining about how the dealership stole $7,000 from you.

Huh ? Absolutely not. You're comparing laws of the market to the progression in the video game. The car is cheaper because she's not "the most recent", compare this with a progression in a videao game doesn't make any sense...

preevious

Oh, god, please stop with those topics.
It's like this and it won't change, can't we, as a community, get over it?

AndlatAndometi

Ackwalan wrote: »

No different then any other game comes out with an expansion and a new level cap.

my man, when other games come out with a new level cap, they still keep the experience from the previous levels.
Example: If level cap is 60 and it gets raised to 70, players will still be level 60 and the experience require to get to level 60 will still be the same.
ESO in the past also had CP cap increases, like back when it was 720 and it got higher people still kept their experience from the previous cap. People that had higher cp's got to max cp straight away, good for them.
The difference now is, they raised the cap but also halved+- the experience required per level. While not changing the Cp from the players themselves.
If we go back to the level 60 to 70 cap example this would mean that with that new cap players who were 60 get nerfed down to level 45. Now my man, give me one game that did that?


Also the argument "they made it so new players can catch up" that I keep hearing is total bs.
I was a new player once, I put in the grind to catch up, yet I'm being punished now?

what_the

peeps just need to get over their "entitlement" issues...😜

Inaya

I cannot believe all this fuss over something we all knew was coming, does not punish or rob anyone of anything and actually makes getting CP rewarding again.

Xuhora

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

No different then any other game comes out with an expansion and a new level cap.

my man, when other games come out with a new level cap, they still keep the experience from the previous levels.
Example: If level cap is 60 and it gets raised to 70, players will still be level 60 and the experience require to get to level 60 will still be the same.
ESO in the past also had CP cap increases, like back when it was 720 and it got higher people still kept their experience from the previous cap. People that had higher cp's got to max cp straight away, good for them.
The difference now is, they raised the cap but also halved+- the experience required per level. While not changing the Cp from the players themselves.
If we go back to the level 60 to 70 cap example this would mean that with that new cap players who were 60 get nerfed down to level 45. Now my man, give me one game that did that?


Also the argument "they made it so new players can catch up" that I keep hearing is total bs.
I was a new player once, I put in the grind to catch up, yet I'm being punished now?

this argument... why are you insisting on your XP staying the same? XP is a currency the game exchanges for 1 CP, and everytime you gain a CP your XP will be reset to ZERO. so your argument, quiet frankly, does not work at all.

other point: heard of the level crunch in WoW? the player was lvl 120, expansion came around the corner, player was lvl 50.

your last point: i had it hard as a new player so the new players shall have it even harder? come on, you can do better than that...talking about total BS yourself, this argument you made in the last paragraph is the worst i've heard to date

Inaya

Xuhora wrote: »

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

No different then any other game comes out with an expansion and a new level cap.

my man, when other games come out with a new level cap, they still keep the experience from the previous levels.
Example: If level cap is 60 and it gets raised to 70, players will still be level 60 and the experience require to get to level 60 will still be the same.
ESO in the past also had CP cap increases, like back when it was 720 and it got higher people still kept their experience from the previous cap. People that had higher cp's got to max cp straight away, good for them.
The difference now is, they raised the cap but also halved+- the experience required per level. While not changing the Cp from the players themselves.
If we go back to the level 60 to 70 cap example this would mean that with that new cap players who were 60 get nerfed down to level 45. Now my man, give me one game that did that?


Also the argument "they made it so new players can catch up" that I keep hearing is total bs.
I was a new player once, I put in the grind to catch up, yet I'm being punished now?

other point: heard of the level crunch in WoW? the player was lvl 120, expansion came around the corner, player was lvl 50.

AND every expansion the gear you put in so many hours to get becomes useless, weapons you grinded for are removed (ie: legendaries), professions you leveled are changed or removed entirely as well as the achievement points you gained for that profession, mounts with special abilities you grinded for are changed - removing the special ability and making it generic for all WITH a cost to you.....

Really.... all these complaints are just ridiculous.

Everstorm

Brynhiild wrote: »

Why the hell should i be happy to grind AGAIN to hit a f***ing soft cap when the game deletes me about 1 year of XP ?!

Cap at 810: whaaaa, there is no progression, we want something to do!!!

Cap lifted: whaaaa, why do you force me to play the game?!

Pretty much everything you do in this game gives exp. You get bombarded with exp scrolls through the daily rewards. Just play to have fun. It's much more rewarding than chasing a number or keeping up with the Joneses.

AndlatAndometi

Xuhora wrote: »

this argument... why are you insisting on your XP staying the same? XP is a currency the game exchanges for 1 CP, and everytime you gain a CP your XP will be reset to ZERO. so your argument, quiet frankly, does not work at all.

other point: heard of the level crunch in WoW? the player was lvl 120, expansion came around the corner, player was lvl 50.

your last point: i had it hard as a new player so the new players shall have it even harder? come on, you can do better than that...talking about total BS yourself, this argument you made in the last paragraph is the worst i've heard to date

Your xp may reset to zero per level, but your overall xp earned still goes up. This total amount earned is dependent on playtime. If I spent enough time in the game to have a total of 40 mil experience (for example) then I should still have a level equivalent to 40 mil experience. Which frankly isn't the case with this update.

WoW's entire level squish was mostly because the numbers overall were getting too high, having it squish from 120 to 50 didn't impact their dps, their tanking capability, nor their healing nor gear.

The last point was more about me being punished for reaching the cp cap. While new players will probably be able to get to my cp now in a fraction of the time I spent on getting mine, even though I did more effort. Doesn't sound fair to me.

not really sure what makes it so hard to understand for people

Katheriah

Xuhora wrote: »

let me count real quick...
thread 10 about this topic, 8 of them in the PTS section.

is my answer helpful to the discussion? certainly not, i just wanted to point out that this topic is discused ad nauseum and no consense has been found to date, not sure if this 11th thread will help the cause?

If people are unhappy, staying quiet won't work.

mikemacon

Whatever you do, don’t play other MMOs - like WoW - where your levels get “squished” (yes, that’s the actual term the games themselves use) when new expansions are released as part of level/XP normalization.

🤣

Brynhiild

Everstorm wrote: »

Brynhiild wrote: »

Why the hell should i be happy to grind AGAIN to hit a f***ing soft cap when the game deletes me about 1 year of XP ?!

Cap at 810: whaaaa, there is no progression, we want something to do!!!

Cap lifted: whaaaa, why do you force me to play the game?!

Pretty much everything you do in this game gives exp. You get bombarded with exp scrolls through the daily rewards. Just play to have fun. It's much more rewarding than chasing a number or keeping up with the Joneses.

Read my post again, i'm not complaining about the fact i need to gain XP, i'm complaining about the fact that half of the XP i got since then is just being ERASED. If the game was just about refarming levels i wouldn't have say a thing. I don't mind farming, what i mind tho is HALF of my previous farming being thrown away by the game. That's the REAL issue.

remosito

mikemacon wrote: »

Whatever you do, don’t play other MMOs - like WoW - where your levels get “squished” (yes, that’s the actual term the games themselves use) when new expansions are released as part of level/XP normalization.

🤣

haven't and won't. and added eso to list of these mmos I shouldn't touch.

Casdha

Ain't the first time it has happened,,,,,, won't be the last (VR 14) for anyone that remembers.

jircris11

These posts make me chuckle. Answer me this op, if it takes 250k to gain a cp and you were at 350k before the patch what in the world did you want to happen to that other 100k xp that you "lost" ? Honestly people are becoming more entitled as time goes on. Stuff like this happens all the time in the gaming world, if you cant handle it maybe videogames are not for you.

Brynhiild

jircris11 wrote: »

These posts make me chuckle. Answer me this op, if it takes 250k to gain a cp and you were at 350k before the patch what in the world did you want to happen to that other 100k xp that you "lost" ? Honestly people are becoming more entitled as time goes on. Stuff like this happens all the time in the gaming world, if you cant handle it maybe videogames are not for you.

Simple answer : you do an algorithm in your game who will take the global xp gained by a player (for CP 810 it's around 194 millions of xp), and then converts it on the new CP system.

Like that you do a simple xp conversion to gave the new cp levels according to the old cp levels according to the xp gained by the player


On a basis of ~45% of XP actually LOST you can just add 45% to every old CP level to become new CP levels. So we will have that kind of thing :
160 old cp > 230 new cp
400 old cp > 580 new cp
810 old cp > 1170 new cp
1200 old cp > 1740 new cp.

It's easy as that. It doesn't punish old players and still get new players to have things faster than before, EVERYONE wins.

Nagastani

Brynhiild wrote: »

So, the new patch is out and everyone in the game seems happy (not so much on the forums tho). Some heavy changes were made, some are good, some are really bad or useless... Still, i can't ignore the feeling that i'm being punished.

The New CP system is out and he's telling you "see, i'm not completely different, DPS will be the same if you grind some more CP's" but... NO. I'm sorry game but i saw what you just did. Now you need ~250k-300k XP to gain a CP instead of the previous 450k-500k, okay, why not, fine, but that also means that HALF OF THE XP i gained before this update is just deleted from my account ! I mean... WHAT ?
I played the game for years, grinding some CPs to reach the caps, then when i was 600 i stopped having care for it and just hit 880 without noticing... And now the game is telling me : "Look you have to grind more CPs to get the soft cap" and he's taking half of my progression in the process ?!

Why the hell should i be happy to grind AGAIN to hit a [snip] soft cap when the game deletes me about 1 year of XP ?!

Does it seems normal to you that an update litteraly tells you "your progress over the yers don't matter, not even a little bit" ?
Don't get me wrong : i love the game. But it's the first time i have a feeling like this... And i don't think that only for me, i think of every player who gets it too...

[Edited to remove Profanity]

I understand what you're saying and I can't disagree.

However I would offer, this game is not in a healthy state, yet, and we have much more important issues that require dire attention in the months ahead, if not sooner.

But I don't disagree with your premise.

Pallio

Nothing about this patch makes anyone "happy" mostly just annoyed and frustrated.

The free pet is kinda cute though.

majulook

I really hate this new CP I have four (4) Characters that I cannot play as I did before.

With the old CP using the 810 CP I could Heal or DPS with just a simple bar swap for overland and Normal Dungeons & Trials. While for some Vet Trials a one bar weapon swap and a few skill changes depending on the Vet Trial and if I am Healing or DPS.

Have 1482 CP and its not anywhere near enough to be able to do this.

Lugaldu

Pallio wrote: »

The free pet is kinda cute though.

But, we already have it in other colors ...

Melivar

As someone who played WOW for 10 plus years before coming to ESO about 2 years ago and never looked back, I find a lot of these threads amusing.

In ESO you have at least been allowed to progress your character even if more slowly than a new player all the time with none of your progress ever totally wasted in a sense at least not yet. Sure they change things making some gear better or worse all the time but the fact is once earned even before the sticker book with enough storage you could keep any sets from your first day at CP 160 until current and presumably all future CP to 3600 and using them anywhere along the process. Since hitting CP 810 I have been able to progress to now CP 992 even without trying and simply by doing the things I liked on any given day. So still at an advantage of someone who has started more recently. I could presumably take a 3 year break from ESO and come back with whatever gear I was last using and start directly on going after whatever the best Meta set had been offered in the time I was gone

Now by comparison in WOW on day 2-5 of any given expansion I would reach current max level and start the gear treadmill, fast forward roughly 2 years or 725 days from the point of hitting expansion cap and guess what I got to start all over again from 0. Now a new player who started 60 days before the next expansion finally hits and low and behold he start at the exact same spot as me though I likely have slightly better gear so have little risk of death the first 2 levels where the newer play may die 3-4 times but by that 2nd level we both have the same gear and are now on the same equal tread mill. If I take a 3 year break from WOW I have some serious grinding to do before I can think about getting back on the Meta Train

Now personally I don't have a problem with either way the game is played when i played WOW and now that I play predominately ESO I have fun doing what I am doing and what someone else is doing and enjoying is their own business.

Just have fun doing what you do and don't worry about all the small stuff. You have it better off than alot of games that reset completely every year or 2.

Kiralyn2000

AndlatAndometi wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

No different then any other game comes out with an expansion and a new level cap.

my man, when other games come out with a new level cap, they still keep the experience from the previous levels.
Example: If level cap is 60 and it gets raised to 70, players will still be level 60

And in all those level-capped games, once you got to 60, it stopped recording XP, and when the cap was increased to 70 everyone had to start from 60.

This game let you keep earning XP & CP, so that when the cap was increased, you were already at 65.

and the experience require to get to level 60 will still be the same.

You've obviously never seen an MMO that smoothed out the leveling curve for new players, so that it was easier/faster to get to the new expansion. Even the short time I played WoW (three expansions), the leveling was altered. So no, even though I got to 60/70/etc the "hard way", that didn't mean they couldn't make it faster in later patches. And no, no-one complained that their XP was "stolen".

Jayne_Doe

Yeah...here we go again.

First, the CP cap has ALWAYS been 3600 - from day one. They instituted a cap on SPENDABLE CP not long after it launched. That cap was 500 and change. At that time, they did not delete the CPs that players had earned beyond that, as the intention was to continue to slowly raise the spendable CP cap, which they did multiple times. But, the power creep continued and so they froze the spendable cap at 810 while they worked on revamping the system.

Second, each time the spendable cap was raised, the XP curve was adjusted. So, you already "lost" thousands of XP before the new CP system even launched.

Icy_Waffles

They literally just expanded CP and made it EASIER to level up. You haven’t lost anything. They ADDED to the game. It’s like getting an expansion and being made the additions weren’t given to you.

Katahdin

I have the same number of CP in 2.0 as I had in 1.0 and Ill gain more CP faster in the future.

I dont see the problem here.

NONE of us deserve to be scaled up to some new CP level because they changed the rate at which CP is earned.
This is a non issue that just screams entitlement

zaria

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Yeah...here we go again.

First, the CP cap has ALWAYS been 3600 - from day one. They instituted a cap on SPENDABLE CP not long after it launched. That cap was 500 and change. At that time, they did not delete the CPs that players had earned beyond that, as the intention was to continue to slowly raise the spendable CP cap, which they did multiple times. But, the power creep continued and so they froze the spendable cap at 810 while they worked on revamping the system.

Second, each time the spendable cap was raised, the XP curve was adjusted. So, you already "lost" thousands of XP before the new CP system even launched.

This, you never got CP on CP cap increase, at least past cap who was 600 then I reached it. Not sure if I got some free cp back then I was low CP, might got it once or twice but more likely I did not bothered adding points every week.

yes the leveling cap has always been 3600.
But the spending cap has some effect over the number of cp you could use. Fists it set the scale on cost and cost increase
This is centered around the cap since cost is (((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) where x is you CP level.

the last effect is that cost is 50% higher if above cap, this was set so people would not race ahead but you should still have made enough progress to be above cap on next increase if you used up your enlightenment.
So yes the system was designed to nerf your CP gain past cap, but as all here kept ahead none bothered.

Then ZoS stopped raising CP cap for reasons. Recently they added CP 2.0 at first the new cap was 1020 something, people revolted as CP cost would just drop 25% something for CP 1200 and it would take decades to reach even 2000.
They changed the cap to 1800 who is pretty reasonable except the +50% cost increase at cp 1800 as its not cap anymore just an scaling lever. its no reason to nerf progression for some at cp 1801, more so that he is mostly getting QoL stuff like switching between tank and DD.