So you're unhappy with U29, what can you do?

furiouslog

Here are some courses of action that you may or many not have considered:

1. If you purchased Blackwood through Bethesda, politely ask for a refund and tell them explicitly why you are asking for it. I did this, and the response was quick, polite, apologetic, and professional. Nice job on that front.
2. You can, if you wish, cancel ESO plus, and submit a feedback help ticket explaining why you cancelled.
3. Post a fair review that clearly and politely communicates your perspective on the pros and cons of the game in the outlets that allow for publicly displayed consumer feedback. I have done this on several sites, and got a direct response from a Bethesda representative on Steam. At least that way, I know someone noticed it and took it on board, even if it ultimately goes unaddressed.
4. If you are upset enough that you are electing to stop playing the game, contribute that feedback by submitting a ticket and explaining your reasons (I'm not there yet, and this is not a quitting thread or any incitement to quit - I personally want everyone who is unhappy to stay and try to work things out). Quitting threads are not permitted here, but I think ZOS actually wants to know when people are leaving and why, they just don't want it in the forums because of the unproductive discussions that occur afterwards. Even if it does not resolve your situation, at least you've given them some data to help them get better.

I'm not trying to incite anyone or create drama. These are all legitimate avenues of action that we are allowed and encouraged to take when we have a problem. ZOS and Bethesda have multiple mechanisms and feedback loops designed to capture data and address their consumers. If sharing your feedback on this forum is not helping you be heard, and you are unsatisfied with the response, these other methods might provide a more effective remedy, and if the data then demonstrate to ZOS that they whiffed it on these changes, maybe they will address it. If you care enough about your issues to take the time, that's really all you can hope for.

trackdemon5512

Yes, these are all valid and excellent options to look express displeasure with the direction of the game.

HOWEVER, I feel I must put forward two things:

1) Blackwood isn’t out yet. Details regarding the next fully paid chapter are extremely scant beyond companions and a new zone. Nothing else is virtually known. If you’ve decided to preorder what comes out tentatively in June you do so like any other game preorder, putting faith in a product not yet released through your faith in the developer and ideas put forward.

2) All of the changes people are complaining about now are about the upcoming March update. The vast majority of the changes there are for every player, subscription or not. Furthermore, the changes have several years of QnA development behind them and aren’t a haphazardly thought idea. Until implementation is live all we have are some impressions based upon a PTS. You can easily wait until the March update drops to make an informed and reasoned decision.


In my personal opinion, nothing ZOS has done so far with the proposed changes is egregious. In the last few months we’ve had a clear case where a developer touted something, delivered something else, and failed its clientele. I’m looking at you CD Projekt Red and Cyberpunk.

If you wish to hold off on preordering Blackwood and want to wait till release to see if it’s good then that’s great. But the March update can’t be preordered and isn’t out yet and I would encourage players to wait and judge for themselves if the live content is good before jumping to conclusions and deciding the abandon a game altogether in a temporary fit.

furiouslog

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Yes, these are all valid and excellent options to look express displeasure with the direction of the game.

HOWEVER, I feel I must put forward two things:

1) Blackwood isn’t out yet. Details regarding the next fully paid chapter are extremely scant beyond companions and a new zone. Nothing else is virtually known. If you’ve decided to preorder what comes out tentatively in June you do so like any other game preorder, putting faith in a product not yet released through your faith in the developer and ideas put forward.

2) All of the changes people are complaining about now are about the upcoming March update. The vast majority of the changes there are for every player, subscription or not. Furthermore, the changes have several years of QnA development behind them and aren’t a haphazardly thought idea. Until implementation is live all we have are some impressions based upon a PTS. You can easily wait until the March update drops to make an informed and reasoned decision.


In my personal opinion, nothing ZOS has done so far with the proposed changes is egregious. In the last few months we’ve had a clear case where a developer touted something, delivered something else, and failed its clientele. I’m looking at you CD Projekt Red and Cyberpunk.

If you wish to hold off on preordering Blackwood and want to wait till release to see if it’s good then that’s great. But the March update can’t be preordered and isn’t out yet and I would encourage players to wait and judge for themselves if the live content is good before jumping to conclusions and deciding the abandon a game altogether in a temporary fit.

Good points, and I agree, except for the egregious part.

Pallio

Pre order for anything is always a gamble. Best thing to do is wait see for yourself what everyone here is already complaining about or get on the PTS and see for yourself.

If you are ok with the changes and can enjoy the normal RP, house decorating in addition to CP grinding for hours, days, weeks whatever it takes to be mediocre again like before the patch and really enjoy the sub-par race you have, then just enjoy the game and play your own way.

remosito

already cancelled my eso+

must have missed/skipped the feedback help ticket thingie

Mojmir

Havent spent a dime since morrowind, i guess zo$ will never get it together too change that

furiouslog

remosito wrote: »

already cancelled my eso+

must have missed/skipped the feedback help ticket thingie

In another Steam review where a player said he/she was leaving the game, a Bethesda representative responded with this:

Greetings,

Thank you for reviewing The Elder Scrolls Online.

The ESO team works hard to ensure that combat is balanced, and we would like to hear more of your thoughts. You can send feedback directly to the development team via a feedback ticket at help.elderscrollsonline. Tell us more about what could have made your ESO experience better, and how you feel the combat could be improved. We would appreciate your input.

Thank you for saying you enjoy the world and story of ESO, and we are sorry to hear you are quitting. We hope you give ESO another chance.

Sincerely,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

So this is apparently how they prefer to hear us when we have a plus/delta. I take that as a sign that tickets are probably a visible metric relative to other forms of feedback. I'm not sure that this forum is used to aggregate and communicate consumer perceptions to the dev team, but I really have no idea. I'm just saying that this is how Bethesda suggested that people who have issues with the game voice them.

Sarannah

Last week I was planning to extend my ESO+ sub by another year, but for now I'm still holding off to see how CP 2.0 will do. If it becomes a skillswitch-fest where those using an add-on gain in-game advantages, I'm probably going to find another game. CP 2.0 should not go live like that.

I don't care about nerfs/buffs, they keep us all on equal ground. And all players are affected by the same limitations. But add a constant annoyance/advantage to the gameplay, and that is a big red no!

I did pre-order Blackwood, and I'll for sure be back to check out companions if I left due to CP 2.0 being bad. But how long I'll stay depends on how CP 2.0 works.

QuebraRegra

remosito wrote: »

already cancelled my eso+

must have missed/skipped the feedback help ticket thingie

as much as I have enjoyed my return, I REALLY don't care for the GREEN TREE CP slot requirement changes (console at that). Will be canceling ESO+ and taking a break.

I hope, and fully expect ZOS to listen to the feedback eventually, but something needs to change for QOL

Ill be sad to go as I was enjoying working on alts again after years break

Sangwyne

Hey, this is helpful, actually. I've mostly been posting on the forums in the hopes of raising attention to some issues I see coming with patch 29, but these are all solid avenues to take and good advice. Thanks.

remosito

furiouslog wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

already cancelled my eso+

must have missed/skipped the feedback help ticket thingie

In another Steam review where a player said he/she was leaving the game, a Bethesda representative responded with this:

Greetings,

Thank you for reviewing The Elder Scrolls Online.

The ESO team works hard to ensure that combat is balanced, and we would like to hear more of your thoughts. You can send feedback directly to the development team via a feedback ticket at help.elderscrollsonline. Tell us more about what could have made your ESO experience better, and how you feel the combat could be improved. We would appreciate your input.

Thank you for saying you enjoy the world and story of ESO, and we are sorry to hear you are quitting. We hope you give ESO another chance.

Sincerely,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

So this is apparently how they prefer to hear us when we have a plus/delta. I take that as a sign that tickets are probably a visible metric relative to other forms of feedback. I'm not sure that this forum is used to aggregate and communicate consumer perceptions to the dev team, but I really have no idea. I'm just saying that this is how Bethesda suggested that people who have issues with the game voice them.

thanks a bunch.

feedback ticket submitted.

relentless_turnip

To me this does seem like an attempt to exasperate things, despite you explicitly saying that it wasn't. I am sure most people are aware of the options available to them if they are unhappy. So highlighting them seems to be(from my perspective at least) to make some kind of point. The point I believe is to further drum up more reactions of displeasure from the community.

Which particular thing are you unhappy about?

I would advise you to speak on this subject as this thread will likely get closed on the basis it is written like a quitting thread and incites others to do the same, despite you saying otherwise...

Shantu

Odd that you can post negativity on Steam and receive rep feedback, while here on their forums you get zilch. Maybe they're sensitive to the increased exposure negative comments over there. Whatever...

I'm taking a different approach. I'll maintain my sub because I'm also in to crafting and trading. But since the onslaught of constant combat changes in Nerfmire began slapping us upside the head, combat has been the most unsatisfying, frustrating, and annoying part of the game (and it used to be my favorite).

Also, every chapter since Summerset has, IMO, been bland and uninspired. While I've purchased them all, about the only time I venture into Murkmire, the Elsweyr's, Skyrim, or the Reach is if I'm chasing a mat survey.

The release of a broken product with Markarth, despite telling them on this forum for 3 weeks prior to release that there were serious, easily reproducible issues, and to be utter ignored, pretty much did it for me.

So while I'll maintain a sub, I'm done giving them any more money, and I've purchased a LOT over the years. The lack of revenue received from players, IMO, is really the ONLY feedback this company ever listens to.

Pallio

On top of the nerfs, race change we will pay for again, now the new CP system is just cumbersome. Similar to inventory management that just barely got way better. Now we will have to micro manage all the CP stuff for whatever we are doing at the moment. Sure an add on will come out for it, just like the required gear/skill changes we have to do on any timed end game content.. This is just getting tedious with all this micro management.. I just want run stuff, kill stuff, craft etc. While staying in the same gear/set up and CP.. just unnecessarily annoying.

stefj68

i already have cancelled my 2 eso+ accounts

furiouslog

relentless_turnip wrote: »

To me this does seem like an attempt to exasperate things, despite you explicitly saying that it wasn't. I am sure most people are aware of the options available to them if they are unhappy. So highlighting them seems to be(from my perspective at least) to make some kind of point. The point I believe is to further drum up more reactions of displeasure from the community.

Which particular thing are you unhappy about?

I would advise you to speak on this subject as this thread will likely get closed on the basis it is written like a quitting thread and incites others to do the same, despite you saying otherwise...

I'm not going to elaborate in here as it's off topic and will just derail the thread, but I have another thread on my specific issue, and have posted in some threads on the same issue. You can investigate if it's of interest.

I posted this because the lack of feedback here was frustrating to me, but I understand that as a matter of policy, ZOS does not want to get engaged directly with their consumers in this venue and others. Since I expressed feedback via these other options that successfully helped to mitigate my overall frustration, I am sharing the available options I leveraged and where I think I had success in being heard so that others have the opportunity to feel heard as well. If you are unhappy, there are other ways to take action outside of venting on this forum. In all sincerity, I don't think that taking a moment to remember that is a bad thing, and that ZOS/Bethesda have made it clear that this is they way they prefer to receive negative feedback and interact with their customers when those customers have an issue. With respect, you are free to dissect and interpret my motivations, and all I can do is insist that you're mistaken if I think you're wrong. There is no conclusive way for you to know my mind, and there is no way for me to prove you're wrong, so we will just have to part ways on that.

I don't agree that this thread violates the forum rules in any way. I went back and checked them before I posted it. I'm actually highlighting the appropriate ways to react if you have issues that you want to communicate to ZOS, based on their own words and policies. No one is flaming or baiting. No one is quitting. If the discontented get appropriately heard and represented, and there are enough of them such that responsive solutions are developed as a result, it actually prevents quitting. That's a good thing.

Side note: I've actually been impressed at the rational and passionate arguments on some of the U29 issues, and the mutual respect that many have chosen to utilize in recent correspondence. I posted this by way of closing the door on what's going on and how I feel about it. Out of respect for the suggestions and perspectives from some of the fine and knowledgeable people who debated me on my particular issues, I'm just going to wait now and see what happens next Tuesday, and give it an honest shot before I do anything else. They won me over in that regard. I'm not currently planning to quit the game as of today, and if I do, I won't post about it here. No one here would care anyway. Most of you have no idea who I am or care what I think. Some of you have killed me in PVP though. A lot.

FWIW, if I actually feel like ZOS turns the corner on listening to their communities of players and does a better job of successfully addressing issues, I'll update my reviews accordingly. I'm kind of hoping that down the road, Microsoft teaches them all something about consumer empathy, because MS appears to make an effort to do a better job at that based on my experiences. That's not a threat or a carrot or anything, it's just a commitment to continue to be honest and fair about my assessment of their game and my experience in it, and the intent of this thread is to remind people that there are other ways to express themselves to do likewise.

YandereGirlfriend

Most companies respond promptly when you flame them publicly (such as in a negative constomer-facing Steam review).

This is intuitive as that feedback is directly targeting their potential customers and is thus impacting their future ability to market and sell their product.

But the forums, while publicly viewable, are not customer-facing and relatively few potential new players will ever read complaints here before deciding upon whether or not to buy the game. As a result, they are largely ignored - because there is little direct downside to the company for doing so.

The inescapable conclusion is that if you truly want to force a change, use the most effective means at your disposal. Expressing your thoughts in a Steam review is likely the best place to start.

QuebraRegra

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Most companies respond promptly when you flame them publicly (such as in a negative constomer-facing Steam review).

This is intuitive as that feedback is directly targeting their potential customers and is thus impacting their future ability to market and sell their product.

But the forums, while publicly viewable, are not customer-facing and relatively few potential new players will ever read complaints here before deciding upon whether or not to buy the game. As a result, they are largely ignored - because there is little direct downside to the company for doing so.

The inescapable conclusion is that if you truly want to force a change, use the most effective means at your disposal. Expressing your thoughts in a Steam review is likely the best place to start.

y'know that's short sighted of them if that is the case... rather a buncha prospective players look at the forms or not, there's a lot of good feedback that would improve the game here, from some very intelligent folks.. Overall a better game will attract more players.

dcam86b14_ESO

you lost me at not trying to cause drama.

furiouslog

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

you lost me at not trying to cause drama.

What would it take to win you back again? I'm pretty flexible and eager to please.

Er, don't read that the wrong way.

AuraNebula

What is the point of a pvper buying a new DLC when they have no intentions of farming the new dungeons because their sets won't work in Cyrodiil anyways?

ZOS your sales are going to end up dropping.

dengood

furiouslog wrote: »

Here are some courses of action that you may or many not have considered:

If you purchased Blackwood through Bethesda, politely ask for a refund and tell them explicitly why you are asking for it. I did this, and the response was quick, polite, apologetic, and professional. Nice job on that front.

Purchased Blackwood. No refund, because I'm not a person who will boycott game because minor damage decrease.

furiouslog wrote: »

You can, if you wish, cancel ESO plus, and submit a feedback help ticket explaining why you cancelled.

I don't use it.

furiouslog wrote: »

Post a fair review that clearly and politely communicates your perspective on the pros and cons of the game in the outlets that allow for publicly displayed consumer feedback. I have done this on several sites, and got a direct response from a Bethesda representative on Steam. At least that way, I know someone noticed it and took it on board, even if it ultimately goes unaddressed.

[snip]

furiouslog wrote: »

If you are upset enough that you are electing to stop playing the game,

[snip] Do you know that boycotts like that NEVER work, don't you? At this moment this post have 400 views (read as "statistical error" in terms of 18 millions ESO users) and apparantly will be closed very soon. The only persons, who will lose in this situation are those who will boycott.

furiouslog wrote: »

contribute that feedback by submitting a ticket and explaining your reasons (I'm not there yet, and this is not a quitting thread or any incitement to quit - I personally want everyone who is unhappy to stay and try to work things out).

[snip]

furiouslog wrote: »

I'm not trying to incite anyone or create drama.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

dengood

And yeah. I found your review on Steam: you had 1484 hours, when you posted it (March, 1) and at this moment you have 1572 hours. So, for the last 5 days you played 88 hours. That's not how boycott looks like...

SidraWillowsky

Alternative solution: complain on forums

But for real, ty for your thoughtful post

furiouslog

Thanks for sharing your opinion @dengood. I am aware of the basis for your perspective. I agree that results are unlikely, but it's a lot more about feeling heard and retaining some hope for improvement than trying to force anyone's hand. I'm just one person. There are 77000+ reviews on Steam. I know I'm a drop in a bucket.

As to hours played, if you do the math, what I have in there is impossible. The way Steam works is that it logs hours played if you keep the launcher open. I leave it open for convenience. And if you take a moment to read through this thread, I explained that I'm waiting to see what happens thanks to the largely civil and well-rationed discussions that have occurred in the past few days. I would encourage you to be similarly civil in your approach to the discussion.

I've actually played the game on my main for about 170 days of game time. I've been playing since beta, but dropped out for a time because I was basically a casual and had pretty much exhausted my experience with that. I came back two years ago, and got back in. It's been a lot of ups and downs since then.

I also have 11 alts that have various time logged. I bought the game on Steam on top of my regular account to integrate it into my UI experience and to stream to TV if I feel inclined. I've probably played a couple of hours a night this past week because I don't want to abandon my guild: I help run the guild and I run events. So hopefully that enlightens you as to why the hours are ticking away and gives you some additional context, since that appears to be an issue for you. I'm not boycotting, nor did I tell anyone to boycott this game. If I ever did that, it would not be because I think it makes a difference: it won't. It's because my enjoyment is undermined by my issues with the game such that it is no longer enjoyable to play it. I'd prefer that the issues were addressed and continue to play. That's a positive approach to providing consumer feedback.

My review was not about just one thing. It's as assessment of my entire experience with the game over this past two year time period. Any time I've had a problem, I come here to weigh in. This was just the thing that finally pushed me to look for other, more effective ways to provide feedback.

Thanks for finding and reading my review, BTW. Much appreciated.

remosito

relentless_turnip wrote: »

. I am sure most people are aware of the options available to them if they are unhappy.

I wasnt aware of zos liking feedback help tickets. thanks to this thread I now know and submitted one.

YandereGirlfriend

dengood wrote: »

And yeah. I found your review on Steam: you had 1484 hours, when you posted it (March, 1) and at this moment you have 1572 hours. So, for the last 5 days you played 88 hours. That's not how boycott looks like...

Creeping on the status of another player is kinda suspect, just saying.

renne

There are things I'm not looking forward to by what we've heard about update 29. However, it's not even out yet in it's release state form, so. I mean, if people want to jump the gun and cancel everything based on on it that's their prerogative, but... it's not even been released.

ThorianB

dengood wrote: »

And yeah. I found your review on Steam: you had 1484 hours, when you posted it (March, 1) and at this moment you have 1572 hours. So, for the last 5 days you played 88 hours. That's not how boycott looks like...

I have over 13k hours on Steam. That is 4.5 years @ 8 hours a day. It is that high because i always leave my launcher open so Steam counts every hour it is open. I have about 1/4 to 1/3 that amount of time of actual game play.

remosito

renne wrote: »

There are things I'm not looking forward to by what we've heard about update 29. However, it's not even out yet in it's release state form, so. I mean, if people want to jump the gun and cancel everything based on on it that's their prerogative, but... it's not even been released.

if they actually boost our cp based on total Xp earned. I'll resub in a heartbeat...and it will have been thanks to ppl giving feedback before it went live.

dengood

ThorianB wrote: »

dengood wrote: »

And yeah. I found your review on Steam: you had 1484 hours, when you posted it (March, 1) and at this moment you have 1572 hours. So, for the last 5 days you played 88 hours. That's not how boycott looks like...

I have over 13k hours on Steam. That is 4.5 years @ 8 hours a day. It is that high because i always leave my launcher open so Steam counts every hour it is open. I have about 1/4 to 1/3 that amount of time of actual game play.

I know how Steam version work. In any case he launched the game. Definitely not even once.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

dengood wrote: »

And yeah. I found your review on Steam: you had 1484 hours, when you posted it (March, 1) and at this moment you have 1572 hours. So, for the last 5 days you played 88 hours. That's not how boycott looks like...

Creeping on the status of another player is kinda suspect, just saying.

I just wanted to know what exactly this person wrote in his review, because majority of statements here - "shooting yourself in the knee". No change in this update is worth it. And yeah, you talk with the person, who will lose around 100 000 000 XP after update and who have 2x times more playtime than OP.

To be fair - his review pretty civil and have detailed information what he don't like. Some problems in his review are exaggerated in my opinion and I pretty sure he can write more about advantages of the game, but at least he act like mature person here, thanks for that.