Physical Weapon Expert and Butcher gone in new system?

amgame308_ESO

Is there anything replacing the increase in light and heavy attacks in the new system? I've looked through the new system and don't see anything or is there another one that makes up for it?

virtus753

Deadly Aim will help, but it’s only very partial compensation. It buffs single-target attacks, including light attacks.

They’ve severely reduced the power we get from CP by design: not only are the Expert and Butcher stars gone, but so are ones like Master-at-Arms and Mighty (in all but name). Thaumaturge has been cut nearly in half compared to many current builds. Some of that power we’re getting back in the form of 1k weapon and spell damage. Some of it will have to be clawed back through Deadly Aim and Biting Aura. A lot of it, though, is just gone.

amgame308_ESO

Thanks for the explanation. I like doing runs in werewolf and may limit the power light attacks had.

virtus753

I’d be interested in seeing how these changes impact werewolf. So far it seems there’s been around a 10% dps loss (give or take) from the ceiling on non-WW parses after maxing out the damage potential from the new CP. That seems to be where the devs were headed with this new system: shunt part of the power out of CP into base stats (hence the extra 1k WD/SD), to help raise the floor, and then tone down the additional power offered by CP to bring down the ceiling. But werewolf is a different animal in some respects, and I’d be curious to see how its damage has been affected overall.

Elvenheart

So our characters are getting an extra 1k spell/weapon damage “built in” irrespective of armor set bonuses and such? I had heard that base health is going up 5K but I must’ve missed that about the spell/weapon damage.

virtus753

Elvenheart wrote: »

So our characters are getting an extra 1k spell/weapon damage “built in” irrespective of armor set bonuses and such? I had heard that base health is going up 5K but I must’ve missed that about the spell/weapon damage.

Yep, it’s 1k base weapon and spell damage at level 50. You get this completely naked — no buffs/armor/CP required. We also get base 10% damage reduction across the board, even in no-CP environments.

Everyone’s base health is going up to 16k from 8744 (so even better than +5k!). Base stamina and magicka are going up to 12k from 7958. But these are all partially offset by the removal of the 20% buff to these stats for investing 100 CP in each tree. (For PvP we also lost the extra 5k health from Battle Spirit.) That means we get a lot more flat stats up front, but we’re not getting any of that extra bonus we were before: the +20% to max health, mag, and stam from food/drink, mundus, sets, and racial bonuses from hitting CP 300 isn’t going to be there. In the end you’re likely to see a boost to your health overall as long as you weren’t stacking health before (so tanks and high-health PvP builds may see something different), but exactly how much varies depending on your race and build. We also now have two CP nodes that can grant extra health (and separate nodes for stam and magicka too), so there are ways to make those new values stretch even further.

Elvenheart

Virtus753, thank you for the detailed explanation. That really helped! 🙂

Chrlynsch

virtus753 wrote: »

I’d be interested in seeing how these changes impact werewolf. So far it seems there’s been around a 10% dps loss (give or take) from the ceiling on non-WW parses after maxing out the damage potential from the new CP. That seems to be where the devs were headed with this new system: shunt part of the power out of CP into base stats (hence the extra 1k WD/SD), to help raise the floor, and then tone down the additional power offered by CP to bring down the ceiling. But werewolf is a different animal in some respects, and I’d be curious to see how its damage has been affected overall.

I've been hitting around 88-90k on a trial dummy on pts with Sorc/darkelf. But the change has scrapped the Bloodmoon set from being competitive.

MashmalloMan

Elvenheart wrote: »

So our characters are getting an extra 1k spell/weapon damage “built in” irrespective of armor set bonuses and such? I had heard that base health is going up 5K but I must’ve missed that about the spell/weapon damage.

Health increase is about 7.2k, stamina and magicka is just under 4k.

amgame308_ESO wrote: »

Is there anything replacing the increase in light and heavy attacks in the new system? I've looked through the new system and don't see anything or is there another one that makes up for it?

Light and heavy attacks for all weapons and werewolves technically count as "abilities" for sets and tooltips alike. There is a few stars that increase ability damage so they should apply there as well for you, so don't pass them by.

If you were trying to max out light/heavy attack damage, you would probably want the following (obviously pick up passive penetration/crit/stamina/weapon damage passives):

• Passive "Mighty" for +100 weapon/spell damage to martial abilities.

• Slottable "Wrathful Strikes" +165 weapon/spell damage to all damaging abilities.
• Slottable "Untamed Agressor" +150 weapon damage.
• Slottable "Deadly Aim" +10% single target damage.
• Slottable "Backstabber" +15% crit damage when flanking enemy.
• Slottable "Fighting Finesse" +10% crit damage and crit healing.
• Slottable "Endless Endurance" +1300 stamina.

Although it may seem you don't have a direct star for upgrading your light/heavy attack damage, you would most likely have a different setup from someone who had a more well rounded playstyle that would want to slot 10% aoe and dot damage for example. Werewolves also get much more benefit and value from the weapon damage and stamina stars because they get +18% weapon damage and +30% stamina, for regular builds, those are pretty low on the totem pole, but they may be a lot more worth it for a werewolf because they scale a lot better.

Additionaly, the CP system is made to expand. I could see them releasing a slottable star that increases light/heavy attack damage by 15% for example. It's really just a matter of time.

virtus753

MashmalloMan wrote: »

If you were trying to max out light/heavy attack damage, you would probably want the following (obviously pick up passive penetration/crit/stamina/weapon damage passives):

• Passive "Mighty" for +100 weapon/spell damage to martial abilities.

• Slottable "Wrathful Strikes" +165 weapon/spell damage to all damaging abilities.
• Slottable "Untamed Agressor" +150 weapon damage.
• Slottable "Deadly Aim" +10% single target damage.
• Slottable "Backstabber" +15% crit damage when flanking enemy.
• Slottable "Fighting Finesse" +10% crit damage and crit healing.
• Slottable "Endless Endurance" +1300 stamina.

There really isn't a point in taking more than four slottables in the blue tree, at least for a single build. For having something like different PvE vs. PvP builds or solo vs. group builds, though, you would want to figure out your top four choices for each. If you can flank reliably, then Deadly Aim, Backstabber, and Fighting Finesse will be the top three of those six nodes. Wrathful obviously outperforms Untamed Aggressor when it comes to pure damage, and either one will add more damage than Endless Endurance. If you're having trouble sustaining stam, then Endurance might come in handy.

Bobbil

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I've been hitting around 88-90k on a trial dummy on pts with Sorc/darkelf. But the change has scrapped the Bloodmoon set from being competitive.

Chrlynsch - would you mind sharing the gear, rotation, and if possible CP that you use to reach ~90k? I also found that Bloodmoon is no longer viable with this update, but have not yet found a replacement setup that lets me pull 80-90k again.

Chrlynsch

Bobbil wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I've been hitting around 88-90k on a trial dummy on pts with Sorc/darkelf. But the change has scrapped the Bloodmoon set from being competitive.

Chrlynsch - would you mind sharing the gear, rotation, and if possible CP that you use to reach ~90k? I also found that Bloodmoon is no longer viable with this update, but have not yet found a replacement setup that lets me pull 80-90k again.

https://youtu.be/2X_968ERhfw

Made this video the other day for my wolf guild, little lengthy but covers all the bases.

Bobbil

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Bobbil wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I've been hitting around 88-90k on a trial dummy on pts with Sorc/darkelf. But the change has scrapped the Bloodmoon set from being competitive.

Chrlynsch - would you mind sharing the gear, rotation, and if possible CP that you use to reach ~90k? I also found that Bloodmoon is no longer viable with this update, but have not yet found a replacement setup that lets me pull 80-90k again.

Made this video the other day for my wolf guild, little lengthy but covers all the bases.

Thanks, that was very helpful!

Chrlynsch

Bobbil wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Bobbil wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I've been hitting around 88-90k on a trial dummy on pts with Sorc/darkelf. But the change has scrapped the Bloodmoon set from being competitive.

Chrlynsch - would you mind sharing the gear, rotation, and if possible CP that you use to reach ~90k? I also found that Bloodmoon is no longer viable with this update, but have not yet found a replacement setup that lets me pull 80-90k again.

Made this video the other day for my wolf guild, little lengthy but covers all the bases.

Thanks, that was very helpful!

If you have any other questions feel free to pm me or just comment on the video.