We can kill meta builds

preevious

Bad Idea

You can allow 500 sets at once, and there are still be people who will minmax.
Meta will still exist, and you would just make it more hard to acquire for everyone. The situation would worsen considerably.

katorga

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Meta is the absolute worst thing about MMO's, and ESO included. I am for anything that removes "meta" from the game.

But this won't do it.

There is always a meta, even in single player games.

The only way to eradicate "meta" is to get rid of the ability of 2 or more players from discussing what works best.

PaddyVu

My Idea In Comments

I would like they allow us to use mythic items without breaking set greymoor will be available without paying real money in the next chapter, so this will not pay to win anymore

Kiralyn2000

ZeroDPS wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZeroDPS wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

ZeroDPS wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

ZeroDPS wrote: »

Forgot to add, this everybody can have its own style and build, main problem because of which we are having nerfs and big changes are metas!

You want 3 five piece sets on one person?

Yes, 3 5pcs sets, yes dps will go higher but anyway they already nerfed too high with upcoming chapter

That would be absolutely terrible. Would ruin what's left of balance. ESO balance is based on limiting players and forcing them to choose. The moment you remove that it would create massive balance problems.

U are not removing it, but adding even more, did you even read what I wrote?

He's saying you are removing a build limitation.

Yes, why we even need build limitation?

1) to keep control of power creep, and

2) having to make choices (about your character, about your skills, about your gear, about your quests, etc) is part of the RPG & MMO genres



And anyway - this wouldn't get rid of "meta". There will always be a "meta". Whatever build limitations there are in a system (and three sets - as opposed to 4, 5, 6, etc - is still a 'build limitation'), theorycrafters will figure out the "best" combination that gets you 1% more DPS, and that will be the new Meta.

Neiska

My Idea In Comments

I think "meta" will always exist in games. I mean, if you took out a copy of final fantasy 1, blew the dust off, and played it, I am sure there will be a meta for that too.

But I don't think meta's are inherently bad either. I also think trying to make every possible mixture of race/class/skills/equipment/activity/player skill/player knowledge/etc mathematically balanced is something of a fools errand.

Meta pros are - letting people know what's good, or what works. This only becomes an issue if you have elitists who think meta is "required", which it shouldn't be. But there are people like me who look at meta's as a sort of roadmap or guide, but I put my own personal quirks or spins on things. It may not be kiss-elbow-100%-the-absolute-bestest down to the .025% degree, as I may not use the same race, or skill morph, or rotation.

For me, fun/enjoyment/playstyle/character attachment is of more value than what number flashes in pixels, but that's just me.

Also, from what I have read thus far from people more experienced than myself, meta isn't "required" to do all content in ESO, which I say is a good thing. Sure, being that one race or having that one morph or whatever might make it a notch easier, or faster, or mathematically better, but I doubt that's a game breaker or character ender. And I doubt that will keep a player from reaching that goal they set for themselves, simply if they put their own spins on things.

"Good enough" is good for me. I would rather play a race I like the looks/lore of, with a class I enjoy, in a playstyle that I like, rather than something I didn't like, even if it was stronger, better, or more powerful. In some games if you want to "redline" things, the play styles gets a little wonky, such as only having a 20 second "window" of severe burst DPS during a 2 minute cooldown. Outside of that window, your dps might be bad. But during that 20 seconds you are blasting dragons to smithereens. That is not a style I personally like or enjoy. I prefer consistency and reliability, rather than mere moments of transcendency.

What I do support, is more options. More choice is good for everyone. Even if you personally don't like it, chances are, there are people who will, or who appreciate the change in pace. I would rather people fix things that are underpowered than try to curb what is OP, so long as it doesn't turn into a game of round robin or flavor of the month over who is OP that day.

TLDR from me -
Metas are okay to have. Trying to control Metas are bad. Not everyone lives and dies by Metas.
Options are good for everyone.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I literally have no idea what your proposal actually entails. There will always be Meta when it comes to damage, assuming there is more than one option for gear, whether you wear 1 set or 10. DPS comes down to math, and someone is always going to figure out the math (pretty sure I already wrote this once today).

I would like to see a few 4 piece set options introduced. This would allow for a 5, 4, 2, 1 combo, but that still wont change the fact that there will be a meta that someone figures out.

amm7sb14_ESO

Neiska wrote: »

I think "meta" will always exist in games. I mean, if you took out a copy of final fantasy 1, blew the dust off, and played it, I am sure there will be a meta for that too.

But I don't think meta's are inherently bad either. I also think trying to make every possible mixture of race/class/skills/equipment/activity/player skill/player knowledge/etc mathematically balanced is something of a fools errand.

Meta pros are - letting people know what's good, or what works. This only becomes an issue if you have elitists who think meta is "required", which it shouldn't be. But there are people like me who look at meta's as a sort of roadmap or guide, but I put my own personal quirks or spins on things. It may not be kiss-elbow-100%-the-absolute-bestest down to the .025% degree, as I may not use the same race, or skill morph, or rotation.

For me, fun/enjoyment/playstyle/character attachment is of more value than what number flashes in pixels, but that's just me.

Also, from what I have read thus far from people more experienced than myself, meta isn't "required" to do all content in ESO, which I say is a good thing. Sure, being that one race or having that one morph or whatever might make it a notch easier, or faster, or mathematically better, but I doubt that's a game breaker or character ender. And I doubt that will keep a player from reaching that goal they set for themselves, simply if they put their own spins on things.

"Good enough" is good for me. I would rather play a race I like the looks/lore of, with a class I enjoy, in a playstyle that I like, rather than something I didn't like, even if it was stronger, better, or more powerful. In some games if you want to "redline" things, the play styles gets a little wonky, such as only having a 20 second "window" of severe burst DPS during a 2 minute cooldown. Outside of that window, your dps might be bad. But during that 20 seconds you are blasting dragons to smithereens. That is not a style I personally like or enjoy. I prefer consistency and reliability, rather than mere moments of transcendency.

What I do support, is more options. More choice is good for everyone. Even if you personally don't like it, chances are, there are people who will, or who appreciate the change in pace. I would rather people fix things that are underpowered than try to curb what is OP, so long as it doesn't turn into a game of round robin or flavor of the month over who is OP that day.

TLDR from me -
Metas are okay to have. Trying to control Metas are bad. Not everyone lives and dies by Metas.
Options are good for everyone.

Well said.

I have 0 problem with meta existing.

I have 100% problem with people who are so obsessed over meta that they start trashing on anyone who doesn't play it, and wants to gatekeep content behind meta.

I always say, if meta is how the game is intended or supposed to be played, then the game should remove race, class, and sets from the game altogether, and your character options at creation are just "Tank", pre equipped with Yolna / Alkosh / Nord stats, "Mage" with False God's / Mother's Sorrow / Zaan's, "Fighter" with Relequen, or "Healer" with Spell Power / Z'en's / Symphony of Blades. All classes come pre loaded with the optimal glyphs and traits and CP points, all attributes are automatically distributed, and nothing about the character build is done by the player. Its all automatic and permanent. Everything is pre-built and the player has no say or control over anything about their character.

That's what meta wants to turn the game into. And thats why I will never play meta. Meta is absolutely the worst thing that ever happens to MMO's, and is literally reason #1 why I typically don't play MMO's, and will be reason #1 why I will eventually leave this game too.

This is an RPG, but RP'ers get scoffed at by meta elitists. Don't worry meta gamers, im not trying to join your guilds or trial groups. I dont want your precious Godslayer titles. I don't care about your leaderboard. You can have it. I dont even see titles in game, so your "Godslayer" means nothing to me.

I will take build variety, diversity, and individuality, and customization of character concepts and playstyles over "Godslayer" anyday

El_Borracho

Bad Idea

If you take away the value of sets, the sets become purely cosmetic. Basically, you turn the game into Skyrim. Pass.

You don't have to run "the meta" if you don't want to. The meta is usually only for min/maxing within group content. The only real universal set is Relequen, and that only applies to PVE stamina DDs. But within that, you can run Tzvogin's, AY, Deadly Strike, etc. Magicka has a wide variety of sets. Healers and Tanks have amazing combinations you can use. PVP has the largest variety of all.

Besides, why are players STILL so obsessed with what sets others are running? And why do some want to eradicate it? Makes no sense to me.

WoppaBoem

My Idea In Comments

There will always be a meta, and their will always be people going to the extreme to test things.

ArchMikem

Good Idea

We could get a jewelry set. Add additional rings maybe bracelets.

Bradyfjord

My Idea In Comments

Whether intended or not, there will always be a best approach for something. Keep an open mind, and be patient.

ArcVelarian

Bad Idea

Change Proc sets to only be useful in PvE, problem solved.