I don't get it!

phylokrek

Hello.
I'm relatively new to this game and something happened that I dont understand. I was a level 45 Orcish Dragon-Knight (STA build) and I lost a duel against a level 32 opponent (I think she was a mage). She killed me with 3 or 4 Dizzying Swings... How is that possible ? My equipment is not that bad I think.

DreadDaedroth

Maybe that level 32 character was a veteran player so he or she spent champion points, crafted sets and generally have more experience or even simply a good player.

Jackey

Like DreadDaedroth said, it's likely it's a veteran player on an alt.
I challenged a CP200 player once on my new level 10 character (with 810CP) and had him panic because I actually could do some burst damage. Didn't win though but if I were level 32 I probably would have.

VaranisArano

There's a couple aspects to this. I'll start with the level/CP/gear aspects.
A. Just because someone was on a level 32 character doesn't mean that player is new. Many experienced players like to PVP on low level alts.
B. Duels allow Champion Points to be effective, even at low level. So it's possible you were fighting a level 32 CP 810 player.
C. Because of battleleveling, a lower level player in great quality gear that's close to their level is going to benefit more. A lot of experienced low level PVPers will gold or purple out their low level sets to get the most benefit from their equipment and battle leveling.

Finally, it really can't be overemphasized that an experienced player will kill an inexperienced player most of the time. Your gear probably isn't that bad for a level 45! It's just that you are new and most likely tangled with a much lower level, but likely more experienced opponent. You'll get better - experience comes through practice!

phylokrek

Thank you!

This is maybe off-topic, but why doesnt it show that a player is at level 810 champion points.. because he needs to be also at level 50?

RedMuse

phylokrek wrote: »

Thank you!

This is maybe off-topic, but why doesnt it show that a player is at level 810 champion points.. because he needs to be also at level 50?

Exactly. Technically CP is the "levels that comes after the levels" and until you're max proper level (50), they won't show. But you still have access to them and can allocate them. With the upcoming CP changed I really wish they had either removed sub-50s access to using the account wide CPs or made a UI change so they showed alongside you level. Like 32/746 as an example, or whatever.

phylokrek

Thanks again!

I wonder how long it will take me to get to level 810, it took me 2 weeks to get to level 49

VaranisArano

phylokrek wrote: »

Thanks again!

I wonder how long it will take me to get to level 810, it took me 2 weeks to get to level 49

Well, we're about to get the big Champion Point rework, so I believe ZOS is adjusting the exp curve to make it faster for newer players.

My advice is to just enjoy the game and don't worry about the grind. Champion points will come as you play, but you only get to be "new" once. Have fun with it!

Vevvev

I made a Templar and dueled a guild member just for fun when they were only level 9. Guildie was cp 810 and PVP geared. If you know what you're doing you can do some serious damage, and while I didn't win the fight the guildie was panicking as this super low level Templar was dealing decent damage and wouldn't die till I eventually ran out of magicka.

There is still a semblance of skill left in this game that can allow a low level to beat the tar out of someone. Like this one cp300 dude I faced last month that was so tanky and strong he pushed my fully golded magDK PVP build to it's limits. Granted, his tankiness probably came from the fact he kept purging my DoTs x.x

phylokrek

How do you purge dots...
And is there any reason not to poison your weapons?

VaranisArano

phylokrek wrote: »

How do you purge dots...
And is there any reason not to poison your weapons?

There are some skills and sets that will purge or cleanse off negative effects. The skill Purge from the Alliance War skill line is available to everyone, but the expense to cast it makes it more of a group utility.

Poisons will cancel out your weapon enchantment, so it sort of depends on whether your poison or enchantment is more effective for what you are trying to do. I typically run an enchantment in PVE and a poison in PVP, but it really depends on your build.

FantasticFreddie

There are many ways, honestly. Could be she had better gear, invested her skill points in a different way, is a veteran player or has been coached by one, etc.

Vevvev

phylokrek wrote: »

How do you purge dots...
And is there any reason not to poison your weapons?

As Varanis pointed out there are abilities for that, and while the Alliance War Purge is available to everyone, the Warden, Necromancer, and Templar classes have dedicated purges they can use. Those three classes hard counter DoT stackers which is a problem for magDKs. Here are their debuff purging abilities.

Templar:
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/cleansing-ritual
Necromancer:
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/expunge
Warden:
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/betty-netch

Edited to include a link to the Alliance War Purge.
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/purge

phylokrek

very appreciated

Dunning_Kruger

Man this guy wants to hit 810 but doesn’t even know in less then a week the cap is 3600 lmao

KhajiitLivesMatter

phylokrek wrote: »

Thanks again!

I wonder how long it will take me to get to level 810, it took me 2 weeks to get to level 49

3weeks perma grind is what i know

but dont do it
1. its waste of time
2. zos will reduce the xp cost per lvl (unluckily)
3. the last player i knew who did the 3weeks perma grind did quit in the 4. week cause he actually didnt like the real content

Shadowshire

VaranisArano wrote: »

There's a couple aspects to this. I'll start with the level/CP/gear aspects.
A. Just because someone was on a level 32 character doesn't mean that player is new. Many experienced players like to PVP on low level alts.
B. Duels allow Champion Points to be effective, even at low level. So it's possible you were fighting a level 32 CP 810 player.
C. Because of battleleveling, a lower level player in great quality gear that's close to their level is going to benefit more. A lot of experienced low level PVPers will gold or purple out their low level sets to get the most benefit from their equipment and battle leveling.

With regard to B: in my experience an "alternate" character never has Champion Points (CP) until the character reaches the Experience cap at Level 50. At that point, the character receives the same number of Champion Points which each one of my other characters have, so the character is instantly promoted to Level 50 CP 810 (so far).

However, I don't know whether a character that is the only one which a player has in existence will earn any CP before that character reaches Level 50. (When I played my first character 6+ years ago, there was no such thing as CP.)

Originally, CP was earned by and recorded for each respective individual character. When ZOS changed to automatically boost an "alternate" character to the current CP cap upon reaching Level 50, they also combined all of the CP for the respective characters into three common pools -- for the Thief, the Mage, and the Warrior, respectively. When any character earns 1 CP from the Thief, from the Mage, or from the Warrior, it is added to the common pool for the corresponding source.

After reaching the Experience Level cap, a character continues to earn Experience Points. And after reaching the CP cap, the player's character(s) continue to earn Champion Points. Because of the caps, earning XP and CP have no effect upon playing the game. ZOS has increased the CP level cap at least 3 times since they introduced the current system. Then they chose to discontinue that practice pending a re-design of the Champion Point feature.

The pending changes to the Champion Point system have escaped my notice until recently. On the Select Character Screen, the current total of Champion Points is displayed in the upper left corner. Beneath that, when I select a character to play, the character's name, race, current number of CP and current location are listed.

Oddly, the CP for each character I select can be the same number of CP displayed in the upper left corner -- or it will be one CP less than the total number of CP shown above the character's listing. I suppose this is a bug. When I select a character which is lower than Level 50, no CP are shown in their listing below the upper left corner.

So far, I have not read any announcements by the ZOS developers or other ZOS representatives about the re-design of the Champion Point feature. So I do not understand your concerns as to how they will introduce it.

Can you point me to some ZOS disclosures about the pending changes to the CP feature? I will truly appreciate it.

VaranisArano

Shadowshire wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

There's a couple aspects to this. I'll start with the level/CP/gear aspects.
A. Just because someone was on a level 32 character doesn't mean that player is new. Many experienced players like to PVP on low level alts.
B. Duels allow Champion Points to be effective, even at low level. So it's possible you were fighting a level 32 CP 810 player.
C. Because of battleleveling, a lower level player in great quality gear that's close to their level is going to benefit more. A lot of experienced low level PVPers will gold or purple out their low level sets to get the most benefit from their equipment and battle leveling.

With regard to B: in my experience an "alternate" character never has Champion Points (CP) until the character reaches the Experience cap at Level 50. At that point, the character receives the same number of Champion Points which each one of my other characters have, so the character is instantly promoted to Level 50 CP 810 (so far).

However, I don't know whether a character that is the only one which a player has in existence will earn any CP before that character reaches Level 50. (When I played my first character 6+ years ago, there was no such thing as CP.)

Originally, CP was earned by and recorded for each respective individual character. When ZOS changed to automatically boost an "alternate" character to the current CP cap upon reaching Level 50, they also combined all of the CP for the respective characters into three common pools -- for the Thief, the Mage, and the Warrior, respectively. When any character earns 1 CP from the Thief, from the Mage, or from the Warrior, it is added to the common pool for the corresponding source.

After reaching the Experience Level cap, a character continues to earn Experience Points. And after reaching the CP cap, the player's character(s) continue to earn Champion Points. Because of the caps, earning XP and CP have no effect upon playing the game. ZOS has increased the CP level cap at least 3 times since they introduced the current system. Then they chose to discontinue that practice pending a re-design of the Champion Point feature.

The pending changes to the Champion Point system have escaped my notice until recently. On the Select Character Screen, the current total of Champion Points is displayed in the upper left corner. Beneath that, when I select a character to play, the character's name, race, current number of CP and current location are listed.

Oddly, the CP for each character I select can be the same number of CP displayed in the upper left corner -- or it will be one CP less than the total number of CP shown above the character's listing. I suppose this is a bug. When I select a character which is lower than Level 50, no CP are shown in their listing below the upper left corner.

So far, I have not read any announcements by the ZOS developers or other ZOS representatives about the re-design of the Champion Point feature. So I do not understand your concerns as to how they will introduce it.

Can you point me to some ZOS disclosures about the pending changes to the CP feature? I will truly appreciate it.

You are correct that alternate characters will jump straight to CP 810 on the menu and for gear purposes as soon as they hit Level 50, but you are incorrect that low-level alternate characters cannot use Champion Points before they hit level 50. I think your understanding of how Champion Points work now with alternate, low level characters is a bit outdated. Champion points are account wide. Once you've earned champion points on one character, they are available for all other characters, including brand new characters fresh out of the tutorial. CP is still only earned post level 50, but any that you already have can be assigned and used prior to level 50.

So, yes, my level 28 Stam Sorc also has 810 Champion Points equipped. He's got the farming passives, the damage buffs, etc. It won't show that on the screen by his name, necessarily, but the Champion Points are clearly active. He can't earn any Champion Points, but if my main Vestige earns more once the cap increases, he will also have access to them.

You'll note that the Below 50 Cyrodiil campaign disables Champion Points. Well, that's only necessary because characters that are below 50 can use CP in overland PVE zones and dueling.

If you desire more proof, go make a new low level character and allocate your CP.


With the CP rework, ZOS is increasing the max CP and changing a lot of the passives/active slottables, but one thing they aren't changing is account-wide CP. Below-50 alt characters can still use CP that's already earned. Should you need to know more, I suggest perusing the PTS forum to see the feedback from the players currently testing the rework on the PTS.

Edit: Hey, ZOS just released an FAQ for CP 2.0! Hopefully this helps answer some of your questions: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563606/cp-2-0-faq

Shadowshire

phylokrek wrote: »

Thank you!

This is maybe off-topic, but why doesn't it show that a player is at level 810 champion points.. because he needs to be also at level 50?

That is a good question. I have three characters which are lower than Level 50 and the Select Character dialog screen does not show that any of them have Champion Points (CP). Perhaps it is because I have not allocated CP to any of them through the Champion Point UI, which can be accessed while playing a character.

Originally, Champion Points were acquired by each character individually. So, different characters ordinarily had different amounts of CP from the Thief, the Mage, and/or the Warrior, respectively. Subsequently, ZOS changed the design so that existing CP were combined into a set of three account-wide pools for The Warrior, The Mage, and The Thief. When each character earns a CP, it is added to the pool for the corresponding source.

According to our fellow player VaranisArano, a character does not earn CP before reaching Level 50. However, CP from the account-wide pools that have already been earned by existing characters can be distributed to a character which is lower than Level 50.

If we make such allocations, then they should be shown on the Select Character dialog display when a character lower than Level 50 is selected. If they are not shown, then that is probably a bug that should be reported (but one that I doubt will ever be corrected).

Shadowshire

VaranisArano wrote: »

Shadowshire wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

There's a couple aspects to this. I'll start with the level/CP/gear aspects.
A. Just because someone was on a level 32 character doesn't mean that player is new. Many experienced players like to PVP on low level alts.
B. Duels allow Champion Points to be effective, even at low level. So it's possible you were fighting a level 32 CP 810 player.
C. Because of battleleveling, a lower level player in great quality gear that's close to their level is going to benefit more. A lot of experienced low level PVPers will gold or purple out their low level sets to get the most benefit from their equipment and battle leveling.

With regard to B: in my experience an "alternate" character never has Champion Points (CP) until the character reaches the Experience cap at Level 50. At that point, the character receives the same number of Champion Points which each one of my other characters have, so the character is instantly promoted to Level 50 CP 810 (so far).

However, I don't know whether a character that is the only one which a player has in existence will earn any CP before that character reaches Level 50. (When I played my first character 6+ years ago, there was no such thing as CP.)

Originally, CP was earned by and recorded for each respective individual character. When ZOS changed to automatically boost an "alternate" character to the current CP cap upon reaching Level 50, they also combined all of the CP for the respective characters into three common pools -- for the Thief, the Mage, and the Warrior, respectively. When any character earns 1 CP from the Thief, from the Mage, or from the Warrior, it is added to the common pool for the corresponding source.

After reaching the Experience Level cap, a character continues to earn Experience Points. And after reaching the CP cap, the player's character(s) continue to earn Champion Points. Because of the caps, earning XP and CP have no effect upon playing the game. ZOS has increased the CP level cap at least 3 times since they introduced the current system. Then they chose to discontinue that practice pending a re-design of the Champion Point feature.

The pending changes to the Champion Point system have escaped my notice until recently. On the Select Character Screen, the current total of Champion Points is displayed in the upper left corner. Beneath that, when I select a character to play, the character's name, race, current number of CP and current location are listed.

Oddly, the CP for each character I select can be the same number of CP displayed in the upper left corner -- or it will be one CP less than the total number of CP shown above the character's listing. I suppose this is a bug. When I select a character which is lower than Level 50, no CP are shown in their listing below the upper left corner.

So far, I have not read any announcements by the ZOS developers or other ZOS representatives about the re-design of the Champion Point feature. So I do not understand your concerns as to how they will introduce it.

Can you point me to some ZOS disclosures about the pending changes to the CP feature? I will truly appreciate it.

You are correct that alternate characters will jump straight to CP 810 on the menu and for gear purposes as soon as they hit Level 50, but you are incorrect that low-level alternate characters cannot use Champion Points before they hit level 50. I think your understanding of how Champion Points work now with alternate, low level characters is a bit outdated. Champion points are account wide. Once you've earned champion points on one character, they are available for all other characters, including brand new characters fresh out of the tutorial. CP is still only earned post level 50, but any that you already have can be assigned and used prior to level 50.

So, yes, my level 28 Stam Sorc also has 810 Champion Points equipped. He's got the farming passives, the damage buffs, etc. It won't show that on the screen by his name, necessarily, but the Champion Points are clearly active. He can't earn any Champion Points, but if my main Vestige earns more once the cap increases, he will also have access to them.

You'll note that the Below 50 Cyrodiil campaign disables Champion Points. Well, that's only necessary because characters that are below 50 can use CP in overland PVE zones and dueling.

If you desire more proof, go make a new low level character and allocate your CP.

Currently I have three characters below Level 50. Two are mule-toons but I expect to develop the other one as soon as I can find an opportunity. As I stated, none of them are shown as having any Champion Points on the Select Character Screen. Perhaps that is because I have never attempted to allocate CP to any of them? If I can do that, then it is news to me (!).

My surmise is that four of my characters were capped at XP Level 50 when ZOS changed Champion Points to be accumulated on an account-wide basis. If memory serves, two of them lost CP and two of them gained CP in the transition. I remember re-allocating the Thief, Mage, and Warrior CP for each of them. At the time, I had two mule-toons that I did not anticipate developing above Level 3, so I did not have any reason to allocate CP to them.

Last year, avoiding COVID-19 gave me enough time to develop one of them to Level 50, at which point I allocated the 810 CP which became available. (As I recall, their availability was announced on the UI when that character reached Level 50.) Which is to say, I was not aware that I could allocate any CP to that character while he was below Level 50, so I did not attempt to do that.

VaranisArano wrote: »

....
With the CP rework, ZOS is increasing the max CP and changing a lot of the passives/active slottables, but one thing they aren't changing is account-wide CP. Below-50 alt characters can still use CP that's already earned. Should you need to know more, I suggest perusing the PTS forum to see the feedback from the players currently testing the rework on the PTS.

Edit: Hey, ZOS just released an FAQ for CP 2.0! Hopefully this helps answer some of your questions: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563606/cp-2-0-faq

Thank-you for the hyperlink!

It is surpassing weird that the current total number of Champion Points is now shown on the Select Character dialog screen, and for each character as I described in my OP. Because I am not playing on the PTS!! When I access the Champion Point UI for a Level 50 character, the numbers for The Warrior, The Mage, and The Thief do not show undistributed CP higher than they were previously. (They are mostly zero with one or two undistributed points because they don't make a difference when allocated.)

ZOS has not issued any Patch Notes which disclose that any aspect of the new CP design is "live" in-game -- I've searched all of them for the PC/Mac since Update 28, perchance I missed the disclosure, but I didn't miss anything.

FYI: I stopped participating in the PTS after ZOS introduced Housing. They corrected a significant design flaw which I reported in the PTS software. But when the new software was released "live" that flaw remained uncorrected. It remains uncorrected to this day, and has been duplicated in Housing ever since. Quality Assurance? What is Quality Assurance? ....

Kartalin

@Shadowshire Regardless of level, if you have earned champion points on any of characters then they are available for all your characters to spend. It may just be that you did not notice you could spend them before reaching level 50. IF you have 810 cp, then as soon as you create a new character and get into the game you can slot all 810 cp -- this actually makes leveling them so much easier in PVE. However it will not show anyone else that you have these cp until you hit level 50 and it starts displaying your true champion level. So you can duel someone 20 levels below you that has 810 cp slotted and get rekt because of the power that all that cp bestows. On the other hand if you go into lowbie cyrodiil or battlegrounds then neither you nor anyone else has their cp active and the playing field will be more or less level.