Here's why you prob don't want new weapon skill lines

Athan1

What happened with jewelry, a gear option added later into the game? It would be impossible to go back to the base game and change every drop with a chance of jewelry. Instead, it became a luxury item, dropped only by specific bosses and events. Prices for jewelry and materials are very high. If a new weapon line is added, they obviously won't make it a staple, as it would require re-programming the entire game. So no. It would be a luxury item, very rare and expensive. And in order to give players incentive to buy the new chapter, they would make it OP. But the steep price would leave many out of this. Do you really want this? Furthermore, new weapon line would mean new traits to research. This would ruin master crafter achievements, and we know this isn't going to happen either. So again, it'd be a luxury item. Say NO to p2w!

tenryuta

*jewelry drops from a vanilla OL mob. uh huh(i dont pay enough attention, but you can buy them from guild shops, so that point is mute)
if the next skill line were spellsword, it wouldnt be a major issue.. maybe. off hand artifacts can simply act as toggles(adjusting 1h stats to 2h without major recoding, mend is a toggle and so can any offhand act in the same way).

any guild hall with a transmute makes it easier for non owners to swap traits as well

Fennwitty

You won't lose trait research achievements you already have. It would just raise the bar for people who don't have the achievements yet.

Jewelry was added intentionally to be a rare money sink. I don't expect an entire weapon line with skills and stuff would be treated much differently than a Warden or Necro for instance.

Faded

They could just make all dual-wield abilities cost magicka instead of stamina. Animations would be the same, no new gear would need to be added, they'd hardly have to change the tooltips. Boom, magicka specs get a second offensive weapon line. Problem solved. Multiple problems solved.

Too extreme? Stamina can't do with only two (sword & board doesn't count any more than healstick does imo) so magicka can also have two? Fine: half the morphs cost magicka. They could have it ready by the time the new chapter drops.

Scardan

Faded wrote: »

They could just make all dual-wield abilities cost magicka instead of stamina. Animations would be the same, no new gear would need to be added, they'd hardly have to change the tooltips. Boom, magicka specs get a second offensive weapon line. Problem solved. Multiple problems solved.

Too extreme? Stamina can't do with only two (sword & board doesn't count any more than healstick does imo) so magicka can also have two? Fine: half the morphs cost magicka. They could have it ready by the time the new chapter drops.

You can just make a stamina mage, use your spells and weapons. No need to pick dual wield (why dual wield?) and convert it to magika. It will be bad. Melee mages are better as stamina spec, because bigger stamina pool for dodging, blocking and medium armor if DD.

Luckylancer

I think they should add "arcane weapons" and "martial staffs" kind of stuff. New arena-trial weapon drops will remorp old skills. People can play as arcane archer. Scatter shot: explosive shot. Arrow spray: forked lightning shot. Hail: blizzard like skill etc.

wheresbes

No. I'd pay all my gold, my clothes and my pants too to have a new magicka weapon #noLoveForStaves

Or, they can merge pen, crit, and whatnot so I can use the existing weapons. Did I say already that I don't like staves?

rbfrgsp

They could build a spellsword skill line that simply requires you to hold one existing 1h weapon and have one hand empty. If you equipped another weapon or shield in the empty hand, the spellsword skills would be greyed out. Then the skills themselves would just need to be thematically built around there being one smaller weapon to make use of.

Grianasteri

I can legit confirm, that I and a great many others, DO want a new weapon skill line.

Preferably a new Magica weapon skill line, conceptually a magica duel wield skill line, with new weapons and the ability to wield a melee weapon in one hand with a new magic weapon in the other. True spellwords/battlemages.

Stamina has 4 weapon skill lines, with 5 weapon types, more if you count 1h & 2 h separately.

Magica? 1 offensive weapon skill line, with one weapon type - staffs. Yes you can choose shock or flame or even ice if you wish, but its still just a staff and its still one skill line.

The disparity is glaring and I hope Zos address this sooner rather than later.

VaranisArano

Weapons are skill lines. At most, your best equivalent is something like the Psijic Order, where we'd get a grindy quest to be "trained" in using the weapon or some such. We'd have to research crafting traits on the new weapon, sure, but what weapon are you thinking of that wouldn't fit neatly under one of the existing crafting trees?

The issue with jewelry is that because it's a crafting discipline, ZOS wanted to make sure players had to work at it. So there's a lot of now-needless time gates like:
A. Old jewelry can't be deconstructed or researched. At launch, this prevented a glut of Day 1 master jewelrycrafters and jewelry mats, but now its largely pointless.
B. Jewelry improvement mat dust has the same drop rate as the base improvement mats for the other crafts.
C. New jewelry trait stones drop from a variety of activities, which helps enforce a rarity akin to nirncrux on certain traits.

None of those would be applicable to a new weapon skill line, unless you also think that ZOS is going to add a whole new crafting tree or entirely new traits and improvement materials to go with it. In which case, I'm curious: again, what weapon are you thinking that wouldn't fit under the existing crafting trees?

Faded

Scardan wrote: »

Faded wrote: »

They could just make all dual-wield abilities cost magicka instead of stamina. Animations would be the same, no new gear would need to be added, they'd hardly have to change the tooltips. Boom, magicka specs get a second offensive weapon line. Problem solved. Multiple problems solved.

Too extreme? Stamina can't do with only two (sword & board doesn't count any more than healstick does imo) so magicka can also have two? Fine: half the morphs cost magicka. They could have it ready by the time the new chapter drops.

You can just make a stamina mage, use your spells and weapons. No need to pick dual wield (why dual wield?) and convert it to magika. It will be bad. Melee mages are better as stamina spec, because bigger stamina pool for dodging, blocking and medium armor if DD.

"Melee mages" already exist. We just have crappy options for the weapons we're using up close and personal. I've had magblade and magsorc builds with dual wield, with 2h (yes, that desperate for a decent heal in PVP), with sword and board. I can manage my stamina pool just fine. It would be fantastic if dual wield went magicka: magicka cost, scaled on spell damage, returned magicka. Hell yes.

Stamblade is great, but "just go stamina" is not the answer to this problem. How about instead we let magicka have some tools for combat. They couldn't even leave us crowd control on the *** ice stick.

Vevvev

These points still don't change my mind about wanting a new weapon skill line.

Urzigurumash

There should be a skill line that lets you carry around a Ballista and shoot it from the hip

QuebraRegra

1h & rune, with the rune being only an "effect" item, and converting all 1h weapon damage to magicka, and enabling a related skill line (spellblade).

Athan1

rbfrgsp wrote: »

They could build a spellsword skill line that simply requires you to hold one existing 1h weapon and have one hand empty. If you equipped another weapon or shield in the empty hand, the spellsword skills would be greyed out. Then the skills themselves would just need to be thematically built around there being one smaller weapon to make use of.

That would be easiest way to code this, and it would be thematically very pleasing as well.

Dunning_Kruger

Yummm this smells like a pot of wrongeroni; you know we love to see new *** BBy. EsO can’t be balanced or fixed by its current team Atleast we can keep it mixed up gnome-I’m-sayin

wheresbes

There are a lot of great suggestions but IMO they could just make a new skill line with reskinned daggers and/or swords, give them spell pen, spell critical and restore magicka. I mean just like the staves work but with the same shape and animations of daggers/swords. It doesn't seem too hard to implement and I'd be content enough.

Doczy

anyone used staff while playing skyrim except mages guild final quest? staff of magnus.

a lot of players loves illusion assassin or battlemage or spellsword

so why zos forcing us for playing stamina if we want to play melee?

remove skill resources as magicka or stamina and its damage too.

make it for example

concealed weapon

damages x your higher resource and stuns enemy from flank

surprise attack

damages x your higher resource and lowers your enemies x armor


dont force people for stamina or magicka

force us for different playstyles with different morphs

Evil_Rurouni

Theres no need to add an actual weapon to enable a new weapon skill line for spellblades.

Just recycle 1H+shield animations, but replace the shield with an item ("rune") that acts like a distorted mirror upon the 1H part of the set.

The "reflected" weapon now has 1H+shield animations, but counts for 2 parts of a set and has the same strength traits and enchantments as the 2H version of the weapon would have had.
Oh, and make it scale to spell pen, spell crit, max mag, spell damage, do one of the 4 types of magical damage instead of physical, and restore magika from heavy attacks, obviously.

Since the "mirror" is a generic, 1 size fits all item instead of being a weapon or part of a set by itself, it'll have zero effect upon crafting, loot drop pools, or anything else.

Simplest solution would be to make the mirror be awarded directly for completing a quest of some sort, then re-purchasable/ earnable infinitely if/when needed.

Add a few glowy animations for the off hand, the method of getting the "mirror", and the skill line itself and you're basically done.
About the same level of work for the interns to do as all those reskinned mounts and pets were.

Faded

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

Theres no need to add an actual weapon to enable a new weapon skill line for spellblades.

Just recycle 1H+shield animations, but replace the shield with an item ("rune") that acts like a distorted mirror upon the 1H part of the set.

The "reflected" weapon now has 1H+shield animations, but counts for 2 parts of a set and has the same strength traits and enchantments as the 2H version of the weapon would have had.
Oh, and make it scale to spell pen, spell crit, max mag, spell damage, do one of the 4 types of magical damage instead of physical, and restore magika from heavy attacks, obviously.

Since the "mirror" is a generic, 1 size fits all item instead of being a weapon or part of a set by itself, it'll have zero effect upon crafting, loot drop pools, or anything else.

Simplest solution would be to make the mirror be awarded directly for completing a quest of some sort, then re-purchasable/ earnable infinitely if/when needed.

Add a few glowy animations for the off hand, the method of getting the "mirror", and the skill line itself and you're basically done.
About the same level of work for the interns to do as all those reskinned mounts and pets were.

Seriously, why has this not happened yet.

phantasmalD

Athan1 wrote: »

What happened with jewelry, a gear option added later into the game?

Uhmmm, no, jewelry is part of the base game. Only the crafting portion was a later addition.
Your premise therefore is incorrect.

It would be impossible to go back to the base game and change every drop with a chance of jewelry.

They had to add new materials for jc crafting which required a new ore nodes to be added to old zones for mining purposes. They managed to solve that issue just fine, so tinkering with base game is not 'impossible'.

Also, like 2 or 3 years ago they made a sweeping change to the drops system where they changed them so sets only drop in relevant weight and with relevant weapons. This again proves that changing base game mechanics is not impossible.

Furthermore, new weapon line would mean new traits to research.

Thank god, I'd welcome new research opportunities.

This would ruin master crafter achievements, and we know this isn't going to happen either.

It wouldn't. For two reasons:
1.Adding new alchemy reagents didn't ruin the Botanist achivement. Adding Nirnhoned didn't ruin the Trait Master achivement.
2. There is no achivement that require you to research every trait on every weapon.

Urvoth

I honestly could not care less if they added it as a rare/expensive option, I'd just like them to add new skill lines regardless. They could easily add a new staff skill line without changing much since basic staff styles already exist, but I'd pay millions to have access to a new magicka skill line anyway.

TheUndeadAmulet

I'm honestly surprised ZOS hasn't added in a new weapon skill line for magicka all these years... like, nothing in Blackwood??? Really?? Giving magicka a melee option makes sense as well because 3/6 class magicka spammables are melee.

LukosCreyden

The only challenge to adding a new magicka weapon would be balancing the skills. Apart from that, I cannot see much issue.
I mean, everyone wants a spellsword, yes?
We already have the 1 handed weapon models.

It is something that really should happen eventually. Staves are getting very dull now.

Evil_Rurouni

LukosCreyden wrote: »

The only challenge to adding a new magicka weapon would be balancing the skills. Apart from that, I cannot see much issue.
I mean, everyone wants a spellsword, yes?
We already have the 1 handed weapon models.

It is something that really should happen eventually. Staves are getting very dull now.

Balancing issues is actually a good reason to add a magika melee weapon, because the mag vs stam balancing issue is directly tied to the melee vs ranged issue.

Balancing all 4 corners of the ranged mag vs melee mag vs melee stam vs ranged stam "scales" requires giving all 4 corners skills and weapons that can be adjusted without impacting the other 3 corners unintentionally.

The missing adjustment tool is a mag melee weapon and skills tied to it that could be adjusted like DW and 2H weapons and skills.

paulsimonps

Yup, still want my Spears and Halbeards. We got statues in game holding them, give now plox. Also that One Handed and Rune that was datamined but never give to use would be a great addition to Magicka characters. Don't want more classes, want more options for existing classes. Don't care if its a grind to be honest.

Faded

TheUndeadAmulet wrote: »

I'm honestly surprised ZOS hasn't added in a new weapon skill line for magicka all these years... like, nothing in Blackwood??? Really?? Giving magicka a melee option makes sense as well because 3/6 class magicka spammables are melee.

We're taking 1/3 of your options on your only offensive weapon and giving them to tanks. Anything you keep using on DD builds we're going to remove.

and

We're also taking some of the class skills you rely on because you have one kinda crappy weapon option and giving them to tanks and healers.

and

We're going to take a few more of the class skills you rely on because you have one kinda crappy weapon option and giving them to your stamina counterparts so they can feel like their class choice actually matters.

But no, giving you another weapon option isn't a priority. Or even on our to-do list.