Too many Craft stars are (pointlessly) equippable
weathersong
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Many of the stars in the Craft tree need to be equipped, but are of such specific use that there doesn't seem to be any point to them being designed as equippable.
Here's one example: Professional Upkeep, when maxed, reduces the cost of repairing armor by 50%. You only need this star equipped when you are repairing. You could - and many people probably will - swap another star for Professional Upkeep, repair, and swap it back out. There will probably even be a mod on PC that just does this for you.
This goes for many of the stars in Craft. Treasure Hunter, whenever you open a chest. Meticulous Disassembly, when crafting. Infamous, when fencing. Angler's Instincts, when fishing. And so on.
My feedback is that all these different choices aren't *interesting*, they're *fiddly*. It's not fun, it's a hassle. Especially when you realize you forgot, right after you repair or open a treasure chest or whatever. Most characters are going to be doing many of these activities, and besides there are compelling choices that you probably do *not* want to be constantly swapping in and out, like Rationer and Steed's Blessing and Master Gatherer, so there's a lot of competition for those four precious equip slots, leading to the behavior I'm describing here.
Especially for the stars that are so super-specific, like Professional Upkeep, these ought to be just passives, not equippables.
Here's one example: Professional Upkeep, when maxed, reduces the cost of repairing armor by 50%. You only need this star equipped when you are repairing. You could - and many people probably will - swap another star for Professional Upkeep, repair, and swap it back out. There will probably even be a mod on PC that just does this for you.
This goes for many of the stars in Craft. Treasure Hunter, whenever you open a chest. Meticulous Disassembly, when crafting. Infamous, when fencing. Angler's Instincts, when fishing. And so on.
My feedback is that all these different choices aren't *interesting*, they're *fiddly*. It's not fun, it's a hassle. Especially when you realize you forgot, right after you repair or open a treasure chest or whatever. Most characters are going to be doing many of these activities, and besides there are compelling choices that you probably do *not* want to be constantly swapping in and out, like Rationer and Steed's Blessing and Master Gatherer, so there's a lot of competition for those four precious equip slots, leading to the behavior I'm describing here.
Especially for the stars that are so super-specific, like Professional Upkeep, these ought to be just passives, not equippables.
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vgabor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Probably there will be soon an addon with preset slottable setups depending on what you doing: one default set, one when opening a crafting station, one when in an outlaw refugee, etc... Feel sorry for consoles though10 -
Arjuna1696✭✭✭And it's not like there's any reason the number of slottables NEEDS to be the same in each category!11 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The entire idea of limited slots is to balance power creep. Very few green slottables contribute to power creep so there is no point in making them slottable. Bad game design.45 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree. IMO the Green constellation is the biggest disappointment out of the whole rework.Playing since beta...24 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭I agree. IMO the Green constellation is the biggest disappointment out of the whole rework.
nonono.... looove the skills actually. just the active instead of passive of a lot of them is problematicShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)16 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
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The crafting and movement ones are... fine, but I really don't care about the thievery based ones.
When I was putting points in I had a really hard time getting excited about anything in there. I will take all passives because why not, but too many of them are only good for one specific thing, and I will feel compelled to slot them and change them depending on what I am doing.
Playing since beta...1 -
Pink_Pixie✭✭✭Most of the green tree should be passives, there is no reason to have to slot "Open treasure chests" or "Pick node better". It's overly fiddly and really shouldn't be needed at all. Easiest way to fix it, would be make all greens passives that does not contribute to combat, running speed or falling damage. And simply make the four slots for the green tree into universal ones so red and blue can be slotted in there.
It's badly thought out to be honest, and very unfriendly to players that only play a single character like myself. I'm pretty sure flames of disappointment, will just be that.17 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah, as a console player I am really dreading the massively negative QoL impact this is going to have on my play time. Having to remember to swap out things I never used to BECAUSE they were passives and now I have to have slotted in order to not be gimped just playing the game the way I normally do, is going to be SO PAINFUL.
What I absolutely see happening with the majority of console players is what gets slotted basically gets slotted permanently (treasure chests, harvesting, craft related for example) and everything else is ignored because it's so situational, you're not going to remember to swap to it until it's too late, and you just eat the "penalty" you're basically getting despite having the CP slotted because who even has the time or memory for this unnecessary busywork.13 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, as a console player I am really dreading the massively negative QoL impact this is going to have on my play time. Having to remember to swap out things I never used to BECAUSE they were passives and now I have to have slotted in order to not be gimped just playing the game the way I normally do, is going to be SO PAINFUL.
What I absolutely see happening with the majority of console players is what gets slotted basically gets slotted permanently (treasure chests, harvesting, craft related for example) and everything else is ignored because it's so situational, you're not going to remember to swap to it until it's too late, and you just eat the "penalty" you're basically getting despite having the CP slotted because who even has the time or memory for this unnecessary busywork.
as much as i have gotten back into the game, seriously thinking about canceling the sub and taking a break for a few months and see if they wicker some of this out. As is, I don't need another annoying management aspect added to the game.11 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, as a console player I am really dreading the massively negative QoL impact this is going to have on my play time. Having to remember to swap out things I never used to BECAUSE they were passives and now I have to have slotted in order to not be gimped just playing the game the way I normally do, is going to be SO PAINFUL.
What I absolutely see happening with the majority of console players is what gets slotted basically gets slotted permanently (treasure chests, harvesting, craft related for example) and everything else is ignored because it's so situational, you're not going to remember to swap to it until it's too late, and you just eat the "penalty" you're basically getting despite having the CP slotted because who even has the time or memory for this unnecessary busywork.
To be honest, this is what I'm going for. Is it annoying? It could be. Gamebreakingly so? No.
I play PC so I'm sure that there'll be an addon out within the first two minutes of release if it isn't already, but a lot of this does seem like unnecessary busywork to swap CP constantly, so I'm not that disappointed. Repair costs? I guess if everything's broken it could save you a couple hundred, but that's not a major expense in the first place since you can make that much from a couple of quests. Fishing speed? I'm not playing a speedrun when I'm just relaxing by the lake. All the crime ones? My main isn't a criminal.
I'll very likely just keep a few: chance of double harvest mats, treasure hunter, and liquid efficiency, and then I'll see what else I want to fill for the fourth when I need to. I can't imagine swapping CP every time I want to do something so I'll probably end up just eating a few penalties that aren't that important to me. I play to relax, not to min-max, and there are so many things I would rather focus on than whether my food buff lasts 120 minutes or 130.3 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pink_Pixie wrote: »Most of the green tree should be passives, there is no reason to have to slot "Open treasure chests" or "Pick node better". It's overly fiddly and really shouldn't be needed at all. Easiest way to fix it, would be make all greens passives that does not contribute to combat, running speed or falling damage. And simply make the four slots for the green tree into universal ones so red and blue can be slotted in there.
It's badly thought out to be honest, and very unfriendly to players that only play a single character like myself. I'm pretty sure flames of disappointment, will just be that.
Seriously this is a no-brainer... what's going on with the ZOS team on this?!?!?!5 -
Cireous✭✭✭✭✭
✭I also really love what's IN the constellation, but the more I look at it, the more it doesn't make sense with the sheer amount of non-passives there are. I think, at MOST, there should be 8 slotables and the rest should be passives. Leaving you with a 4 slot thieving build, a 4 slot harvesting/chest opening/overland build, and with every thing else as a miscellaneous passive.
I might be alone in this, but I DO like that these tree's force you to pick up points in other things before reaching what you want. My absolute ideal preference would be the crafting tree (specifically) containing nothing BUT passives, but having really exciting things that take time to work towards (as you slowly move up the trees). Um, just like in Skyrim
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karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agreed.
Remove things that deal with "Out of combat" activities.
The only things in the green tree that should attempt to be slotable are those that boost:
Fishing
Stealing
Murdering innocents
Each of those are independent activities a player would choose to specialize in and not things you naturally do. Its not skillful decision or gameplay to slot -> Repair -> Deslot or Slot -> Open Chest -> Deslot.Edited by karekiz on February 25, 2021 12:19AM6 -
ApostateHobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree. I really wish they'd make the majority of the green stars passives, especially since console doesn't have addons to make swapping easier. We'll be stuck having to go into the cp menu dozens of times a day.7 -
honey_badger82✭✭✭✭because logging in and out of each character to do riding training, retrieve hireling mail and do/ turn in crafting writs does not provide enough drudgery before I actually play as it is. Now that drudgery gets to extend into the actual gameplay! All the drudgery you want and then some and the best part is we get to pay ZoS for it! yay!!12
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gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AMENPC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭honey_badger82 wrote: »because logging in and out of each character to do riding training, retrieve hireling mail and do/ turn in crafting writs does not provide enough drudgery before I actually play as it is. Now that drudgery gets to extend into the actual gameplay! All the drudgery you want and then some and the best part is we get to pay ZoS for it! yay!!
Someone forced you to make 50 characters for doing wrtis ? Was it ZOS ?1 -
lillybit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Massacre_Wurm wrote: »honey_badger82 wrote: »because logging in and out of each character to do riding training, retrieve hireling mail and do/ turn in crafting writs does not provide enough drudgery before I actually play as it is. Now that drudgery gets to extend into the actual gameplay! All the drudgery you want and then some and the best part is we get to pay ZoS for it! yay!!
Someone forced you to make 50 characters for doing wrtis ? Was it ZOS ?
Kind of, because they made it the only real way of making gold - it's definitely the only way to really get Chromium, without people doing writs on many characters there would be next to none in game and prices would be even more ridiculous than they are nowPS4 EU11 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭Agreed.
Remove things that deal with "Out of combat" activities.
The only things in the green tree that should attempt to be slotable are those that boost:
Fishing
Stealing
Murdering innocents
Each of those are independent activities a player would choose to specialize in and not things you naturally do. Its not skillful decision or gameplay to slot -> Repair -> Deslot or Slot -> Open Chest -> Deslot.
That ^^1 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Massacre_Wurm wrote: »honey_badger82 wrote: »because logging in and out of each character to do riding training, retrieve hireling mail and do/ turn in crafting writs does not provide enough drudgery before I actually play as it is. Now that drudgery gets to extend into the actual gameplay! All the drudgery you want and then some and the best part is we get to pay ZoS for it! yay!!
Someone forced you to make 50 characters for doing wrtis ? Was it ZOS ?
Kind of, because they made it the only real way of making gold - it's definitely the only way to really get Chromium, without people doing writs on many characters there would be next to none in game and prices would be even more ridiculous than they are now
"Kind of" ? Are you serious right now ? You was "kind of" forced to create a bunch of characters in a video game ?
Dude you did it because you want gold. It was your conscious decision. Blaming ZOS for it is just childish , immature and laughable.
Personally i am doing writs only on 5 chars ( i have 14 ) because i do not want to be bothered with doing all 14 each day.4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I just find it interesting that my Silencer used to be able to transit into Belkarth, do her writs, vendor her junk, repair her armor, steal a few knickknacks, maybe murder a few people, fence the loot, and then take off on her morning Craglorn farming/chest looting run without ever having to worry about slotting/unslotting anything.
What made ZOS decide I needed to swap certain slottables in and out if I want to get the benefit of spending CP into them during activities I used to be able to do fluidly? Are the calculations generated by those passives really that bad that they can't just all stay equipped as passives? I mean, stuff like the Armor Repair should be an easy passive that only needs to be checked by the server when you hit the specific prompt to repair armor, right?19 -
anadandy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I just find it interesting that my Silencer used to be able to transit into Belkarth, do her writs, vendor her junk, repair her armor, steal a few knickknacks, maybe murder a few people, fence the loot, and then take off on her morning Craglorn farming/chest looting run without ever having to worry about slotting/unslotting anything.
What made ZOS decide I needed to swap certain slottables in and out if I want to get the benefit of spending CP into them during activities I used to be able to do fluidly? Are the calculations generated by those passives really that bad that they can't just all stay equipped as passives? I mean, stuff like the Armor Repair should be an easy passive that only needs to be checked by the server when you hit the specific prompt to repair armor, right?
QFT. I like to do "coffee and writs" early in the morning before work - and the changes just make it needlessly tedious.7
