Things you dont like to see from a Tank

lazywhiteseal

Everyone's opinion is different; lets get that clear first. Every build is different and every set bonus is different.
what are some things you dont want to see from a Tank in dungeons. It could be their behaviour, skills, item. This is for both PUGs and pre-made groups. This for Vet runs only, since many norms can be done without tanks

I do alot of PUGs and ive gotten multiple complaints, some are in these options.

Option1: This is talking about small weak adds that either spawns during fights or the ones that were on the field before. not the heavy trash mobs that can one hit DDs. those small trashes that only serve as a nuisance to other members.
Option2: ally buffing skills include putting shields or combat enhancing buffs on ally before or during engagements. Didnt say in the option but i want to include DEBUFFS on enemies as well(cant edit options) Ex. War horn, Bone Shield, Vulnerability debuff skills, Resolve buff skills
Option3: All forms of CC, snares, roots, stuns. Are they putting CC frequently on many mobs.
Option4: are they skipping trash mob without saying anything before hand.
Option5: are they having a hard time maintaining hp. are they most of time experiencing near deaths. are they getting one shots too many times.
Option6: are they using bow, 2h, dual wield as their backup weapon. is stamina their offensive stat.
EDIT: thanks for taking the poll. didnt expect this much votes. edited the info to clarify some stuff

amm7sb14_ESO

Having little to no CC

Of this list - little to no CC. Or skipping trash mobs.

I'm not worried about tanks taunting all the trash mobs. Their job is not to taunt every single trash mob in the dungeon. I'm less worried about tanks bringing buffs or not. Taking too much damage could just mean the tank is still young and learning. There is a tank in my guild who still dies quite a bit, but he's still new to tanking. I'd rather be in a group and watch him die and help him learn than to get upset and discourage him. Not worried about using stam as a resource, because how someone builds is none of my business as long as they perform their duties.

But little to no CC means they aren't performing a standard function of the tank, and it can make things more difficult for the group. And skipping mobs... well, I'm here to play a game not skip through it. So skipping mobs annoys me.

Grandchamp1989

Having little to no CC

IMO too few Tanks got chains/pulls/leash.

Making dense tight trash packs is an artform and one of the fun things about playing Tanks.

It also helps Tanks since DDs can burn everything at once, and don't have to kill every little skeleton individually - so less time taking hits...

coop500

Others (Specify Please)

Only thing that bugs me is when a tank loses aggro constantly and I am getting chased around by the boss or just flat out nuked and then the DPS blames me for dying.

Aside from that, I honestly don't care what the tank does or doesn't do, if we finish the dungeon, I'm happy. I do not care if it takes 20 minutes or 2 hours.

Honestly I'm often so worried about my own stuff that I gotta do to be a decent member of the team, I can't inspect other players too closely on what they're doing, nor do I feel the need to know.

Bradyfjord

Others (Specify Please)

Things are too nuanced to say specifically what I want or don't want out of a tank. I expect the tank to have a defensive build, taunt and cc targets, and do their best to protect their team mates. This assumes that everyone else is doing their job too.

lazywhiteseal

Taking too much damage

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

And skipping mobs... well, I'm here to play a game not skip through it. So skipping mobs annoys me.

Yeah i had very different opinions about this from many players.
some say its a waste of time and they actually leave mid dungeon. Many vet players who just want to finish undaunted dailies have this opinion.
some want to go through them all to get motifs and other loots. Many low cp players had this opinion and nearly zero from max cp players. this was the majority in my experience.
Very rarely(one so far) a person would say i suck at tanking just because i dont skip trash mobs.

oddbasket

Skipping trash mobs

None of these options really, as long as the tank can fulfill the minimum necessary for the group to defeat the bosses, whuch is maintain aggro and survive. If I have to choose one though, it would be skipping trash mobs in random groups. The tank should keep pace with the group unless it has been agreed to skip adds, so the other players won't have to deal with the extra pressure of multiple mobs stacked on them.

Miszou

What does "Using Stamina as secondary resource" mean...?

Asking as a tank...

zvavi

Not taunting priority adds.
Not stacking non priority adds.

lazywhiteseal

Taking too much damage

Miszou wrote: »

What does "Using Stamina as secondary resource" mean...?

Asking as a tank...

didnt know how to phrase it in shorter version.
what i meant was "using Stamina as offensive stats."
many DKs use lean towards mag to use their chains. and naturally uses staffs as their back up weapon.
im a necro tank so i need to use silver bolts for pulls which uses stam so i use more stam naturally using 2H as backup weapon.
i put this in option cuz i was criticized for using 2H and not a res staff. personally i think resto staff are inefficient because healing related is the healers job

Miszou

lazywhiteseal wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

What does "Using Stamina as secondary resource" mean...?

Asking as a tank...

didnt know how to phrase it in shorter version.
what i meant was "using Stamina as offensive stats."
many DKs use lean towards mag to use their chains. and naturally uses staffs as their back up weapon.
im a necro tank so i need to use silver bolts for pulls which uses stam so i use more stam naturally using 2H as backup weapon.
i put this in option cuz i was criticized for using 2H and not a res staff. personally i think resto staff are inefficient because healing related is the healers job

I'm still confused as to how anyone can think that "having enough resources to function" is a bad thing?

No one's ever criticized my stamsorc tank for using 1H/shield + Greatsword adn they can go pound sand if they don't like it. Personally, I don't think a tank has any business using a walking stick, but that's just me....

VilniusNastavnik

Others (Specify Please)

lazywhiteseal wrote: »

Miszou wrote: »

What does "Using Stamina as secondary resource" mean...?

Asking as a tank...

didnt know how to phrase it in shorter version.
what i meant was "using Stamina as offensive stats."
many DKs use lean towards mag to use their chains. and naturally uses staffs as their back up weapon.
im a necro tank so i need to use silver bolts for pulls which uses stam so i use more stam naturally using 2H as backup weapon.
i put this in option cuz i was criticized for using 2H and not a res staff. personally i think resto staff are inefficient because healing related is the healers job

As a tank main, I have a number of different tank builds I use, depending on the class I play on.

1. Sorc Tank, SnSh, Lightning stave.
2. DK tank SnSh both bars (made back before Staff Meta and am still levelling his destro tree)
3. Warden Tank, SnSh, Destro/Resto, Healz Tank, made to bring 3 DPS and do both healer and tanks job for vet hm 4 man content. (inc DLC dungeons)
4. Necromancer, SnSh, Destro.

As a rule of thumb, I will (Depending on the dungeon) at the start mention LOS big pulls, and charge through the trash and pull them behind a corner so they all nice and tightly clump up together making it easier to talons/shards them together so the DPS can melt them.

Merforum

lazywhiteseal wrote: »

Everyone's opinion is different; lets get that clear first. Every build is different and every set bonus is different.
what are some things you dont want to see from a Tank in dungeons. It could be their behaviour, skills, item. This is for both PUGs and pre-made groups. This for Vet runs only, since many norms can be done without tanks

I do alot of PUGs and ive gotten multiple complaints, some are in these options.

I think for the first one you meant taunt bosses and 1 shot adds, not trash mobs. But it might be easier to say what a tank SHOULD do rather than what annoys others about it.

1. most important stay alive, understand Mechanics
2. taunt boss and adds that can 1 shot someone and debuff (pierce armor, ALWAYS ON reapply every 15 sec)
3. interrupt interruptible big attacks and block others, move out of aoe and sometimes roll
4. pull all adds into big pile to burn down with AOEs (silver leash)
5. point boss conal attack away from team, control the battlefield
6. use ice staff with crusher enchant/infused (wall)
7. use skills/ults that debuff enemy and/or buff team and/or give synergy (trapping webs, inner fire, caltrop, warhorn)
8. if healer is weak, slot some heal skills/Ult (altar, orb, vigor, barrier)

I didn't include any class abilities because you can do all this without them, but adding shields, resist, buffs etc. will make you even stronger. If you are having trouble with sustain throw in heavies and/or consuming trap or meditate, if vamp blood mist is great for attacks you can't block, interrupt or dodge well and scion ULT can keep you alive and deal good damage.

Septimus_Magna

Having little to no CC

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Of this list - little to no CC. Or skipping trash mobs.

I'm not worried about tanks taunting all the trash mobs. Their job is not to taunt every single trash mob in the dungeon. I'm less worried about tanks bringing buffs or not. Taking too much damage could just mean the tank is still young and learning. There is a tank in my guild who still dies quite a bit, but he's still new to tanking. I'd rather be in a group and watch him die and help him learn than to get upset and discourage him. Not worried about using stam as a resource, because how someone builds is none of my business as long as they perform their duties.

But little to no CC means they aren't performing a standard function of the tank, and it can make things more difficult for the group. And skipping mobs... well, I'm here to play a game not skip through it. So skipping mobs annoys me.

Exactly, tanking is all about managing the fight. It really helps if the tanks chains in the adds and/or roots them in place, adds often die really quickly if they're positioned right. A tank has limited resources so if there are 10 ranged adds I dont expect the tank to chain them all in as long as the thread of the adds somehow managed.

Banana

Others (Specify Please)

Playing solo avoids any and all group problems

Elwendryll

Having little to no CC

You shouldn't taunt all the trash. Most of it just needs to be stacked/immobilized.

Not wearing buff sets is bad but isn't really tangible, I won't get triggered by it, and I can forgive inexperienced tanks for playing selfish.

Not having CCs. That annoys me. You should stack adds. Period. You can be bad at it, fine, but you should be trying.

Skipping trash, depends on the content, I do a lot of achievement runs in dlc dungeons, so I'm used to killing everything, it barely makes a difference to kill everything. If it's a random group, you want to skip? Fine.

Taking too much damage? You can take as much damage as you want. I personally self heal a lot so my health can be yoyo-ing, especially in places like Stone Garden HM.
As long as you don't require complete babysitting, it's fine.

Bows are a very viable backbar option, targeted application of the crusher enchant, ranged interrupt, cone immobilize, etc... 2H can be good as well, but DW will start to get me raising an eyebrow. Why? Halved enchants, you can use the deadly cloak to apply crusher, but it's going to be halved, and not guaranteed to hit the target you want. It is/was fine with BRP DW for the mitigation bonus (vSS HM main tanking for example, why not?).

Other. One thing that makes me feel really bad. But it's just me. vMoS, I ran that place so many times, I have all the achievements here and it's probably the dungeon I tanked the most. Whenever I'm not tank, and we get to the third boss, if the tank says "let me pull", I really feel so dirty. It's so wrong. That boss isn't especially challenging, I did all my no-deaths, and trifectas, without using the exploit. It's not even particularly slower. I paid for that dlc, I'm going to experience all that dlc you know?

spartaxoxo

Others (Specify Please)

When the tank loses aggro is mostly it.

Matchimus

The performance of my tank is strongly correlated with how much the dps & healer want to contribute to working together as a party. Why don't we list how they make parties fail? Lay off the tanks

Magdalina

Having little to no CC

Assuming it's not a fake tank and they aren't actually getting 1shot by every first boss, I find it weird that so few pug tanks slot Silver Leash or Chains or anything. Like, I pug a lot, and most of the time I get non-fake tanks witgh 30-40k health, Ebon, taunt, etc, some of them even know to hold boss in place but literally 9/10 don't pull trash mobs. Even DKs. Even after being asked to do so. I have no idea why, I mean clearly they're somewhat familiar with tanking at least, they must've looked up the build/sets but somehow not the oh so important pull-in skills. Makes dungeons like Tempest a nightmare because they literally take twice as long as they should JUST because no one is pulling the ads in. Heck, I even try to do it myself on my dps sometimes but she has 10k stam, not much I can do there...

The second biggest offender is not keeping the boss in place while there's no reason to do that, thus pulling him out of all the aoes.

Sarannah

As a tank I always hate it when I lose aggro, but this usually only happens on groups of 6-7 mobs or more. Or when I am not paying attention or unfocussed for some reason.

For the record, I taunt everything!

Pulling adds, I did try this a few times. But it is not worth the hassle(skillslot), and many mobs can't be pulled. So it is better to have an aggro/taunt routine, and use a ranged taunt when needed. Using time to try and pull adds when they can't be pulled, is very dangerous!

priestnall.andrewrwb17_ESO

Others (Specify Please)

All of the above - non dlc vet I’ll ww and aoe taunt the *** outta that filth. Vet dlc I’ll drop form and chain them in like a good boy.

tuxon

Others (Specify Please)

Not knowing mechanics.

Starlight_Whisper

Others (Specify Please)

A staff 😖, I know but my fantasy is so cringe everytime I see it.

WaywardArgonian

Others (Specify Please)

Just a pet peeve is when a tank takes slightly too long to engage a mob and start the next fight. Like an elevator door that opens like a second or 2 later than feels natural.

Elwendryll

Having little to no CC

Sarannah wrote: »

For the record, I taunt everything!

Great news, you don't have to. When you chain an add, it comes with a soft taunt. It means that you will grab the attention of the add for a short while without actually having to taunt it (all stuns do that). You can then immobilize it in place.
For the adds that can't be chained, they will either move to you when you taunt, or they will not if they are ranged. You then have 2 main options. Stacking the melee adds on the ranged add position, or immobilizing your pack to move away, using line of sight to make the ranged add stack by itself.

Sarannah wrote: »

Pulling adds, I did try this a few times. But it is not worth the hassle(skillslot), and many mobs can't be pulled. So it is better to have an aggro/taunt routine, and use a ranged taunt when needed. Using time to try and pull adds when they can't be pulled, is very dangerous!

Why would you try pulling an add that can't be pulled?
Pull the ranged adds, taunt the ones that can't be pulled and the dangerous ones. Melee adds will stack themselves.

With experience you'll know what you can leave untaunted and what can't be pulled.

A good and neat stack will result in things dying faster. And dead adds can't deal damage

If you think it is not worth the hassle, you should try harder, not pulling will still work when you have good DDs, but it will just be a loss of time without any benefit.

As you get more experienced, you'll understand that in this game, everything revolves around dps. The tank's job is not staying alive, it's maximizing the group dps, keeping yourself and your DDs alive is just a necessary step to achieve that goal. Placement is everything.

Starlight_Whisper

Others (Specify Please)

Elwendryll wrote: »

You shouldn't taunt all the trash. Most of it just needs to be stacked/immobilized.

Not wearing buff sets is bad but isn't really tangible, I won't get triggered by it, and I can forgive inexperienced tanks for playing selfish.

Not having CCs. That annoys me. You should stack adds. Period. You can be bad at it, fine, but you should be trying.

Skipping trash, depends on the content, I do a lot of achievement runs in dlc dungeons, so I'm used to killing everything, it barely makes a difference to kill everything. If it's a random group, you want to skip? Fine.

Taking too much damage? You can take as much damage as you want. I personally self heal a lot so my health can be yoyo-ing, especially in places like Stone Garden HM.
As long as you don't require complete babysitting, it's fine.

Bows are a very viable backbar option, targeted application of the crusher enchant, ranged interrupt, cone immobilize, etc... 2H can be good as well, but DW will start to get me raising an eyebrow. Why? Halved enchants, you can use the deadly cloak to apply crusher, but it's going to be halved, and not guaranteed to hit the target you want. It is/was fine with BRP DW for the mitigation bonus (vSS HM main tanking for example, why not?).

Other. One thing that makes me feel really bad. But it's just me. vMoS, I ran that place so many times, I have all the achievements here and it's probably the dungeon I tanked the most. Whenever I'm not tank, and we get to the third boss, if the tank says "let me pull", I really feel so dirty. It's so wrong. That boss isn't especially challenging, I did all my no-deaths, and trifectas, without using the exploit. It's not even particularly slower. I paid for that dlc, I'm going to experience all that dlc you know?

It's so sad that tanks get called selfish for wearing sets to survive.

Hotdog_23

Others (Specify Please)

Not having a taunt is pretty much it or keeping the boss still if possible. Everything else is extra.

One thing this polls shows is templar is in bad need of a cc ability a tank can use.

Another thing I like to see is a magic pull like chains/frozen device that is available to everyone like silver shards is. To me that's one thing that makes a DK and warden tank so good is a magic based pull.

That said I wish Unrelenting Grip at 3780 magic was as cheap as Frozen Device at 2970.

Stay safe and have fun

Elwendryll

Having little to no CC

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

It's so sad that tanks get called selfish for wearing sets to survive.

I get why. This is not meant as a pejorative, this is just the term used for a build that only benefits the tank itself. I didn't think of it when writing, sorry xD

When learning a new fight, we actually encourage new tanks to build "selfish". It just means that they don't provide support and invest everything into staying alive, not that they don't care about their group.

But as you get better, you should convert some of your raw survivability stats into group support, as your skill becomes enough to stay alive.

Again, there is nothing wrong with a beginner building "selfish". It's just one way of building, it doesn't say anything about the player itself.

Agenericname

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

A staff 😖, I know but my fantasy is so cringe everytime I see it.

Yes, but my warden tank needs one to cast all their frost spells.

Tsar_Gekkou

Others (Specify Please)

I can't stand when tanks taunt stuff and then run around like a drunk while we have to chase the boss and only use single-target abilities since the boss just gets ran right out of our ground dots.

Faded

Skipping trash mobs

You stay alive and control the room and I'll clear it. However you do that is fine with me.

People who try to micromanage other people's builds are more irritating than anything on your list.