Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of September 30:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – September 30, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – September 30, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
GROUP COMP IS DEAD.... (ESO, was this the plan?)
Crom_CCCXVI
✭✭✭✭✭
I'd like to hear the counter argument from someone that has been here long enough to remember.
Imo, There are essentially 2 ways to be good at any video game 1) you can do whatever the meta is, and just do it better than everyone else. 2) you can try to find ways to counter whatever the meta is. For a game to stay fun for a long time, both of these possibilities need to be present.
I play games for #2, my friends who I have been playing this game with since 2015 are mostly #2 also.
We used to spend hours discussing what would be the perfect 6 man, 8 man, 12 etc.. group.
Just two years ago it would be Ok--- We definitely need 1 maybe 2 CC tank types, Healers.. yup going to need two types, the ones that can stand in the heat, and maybe a burst light armor type, For damage.. ok you might want someone pumping out some steady AOE, but you also want some burst maybe execute
and that wasn't even covering what mandatory skills you really wanted, what buffs... or what sets someone might need to be wearing..
--- For me, this was the best part of the game. I have a boring ass job, I'd stand that at work and ponder this chess match type stuff.
and I know at least on the PS4 server, even the so called "elite" players who don't give a damn about the actual game, never carry seige, and despise any group over like 3 (according to their youtube) but it's more like 8 when you see them..
We now have 2 groups which are essentially META, and anything else is just straight up inferior.
1) We have AOE spamming ball group. It's the death screen with Pulsar/Sap Essence/Whirling Blades... and probably an Ultimate Dump.
or
2) High health/high defense/Werewolves tanky Stam group.
Is this the intention of the game? if so I'd rather just you say so, so I can give up hope and move on.
We could argue the reasons, but I'd say a lot of the changes made to break up "zergs" had the opposite effect--- (and I think a lot of that is because all the players I recognize on the PTS servers and who give feedback I recognize as predominately small scale or solo types who would rather farm a tower, duel, or try to 1 v X and have little if any regard for Cyrodil objectives at all)
just a few
- Immobilization Timers and Immunities have gone way too far. This is the single biggest change to the success of tight little ball groups, and the demise of the whole CC Tank/Controller Job. It just doesn't work anymore. A player spamming something like "Talons" used to be able to at least disrupt or pull a few guys out of moving ball group.... I don't even slot those type skills anymore. I had Fossilize on my bar for a bit last night, I can count the times on 1 hand it was castable. It's just to easy to rotate potions, the natural timer and all the other skills and sets to make sure your movement is never impeded.
Procs- are damage procs really the problem? Viper/Tremorscale came out 4 years ago. Maybe a nightblade is running Calaaruuns but what else? The Valasharon staff is broken every time someone moves behind a tree... Torugs, Ice Furnace, maybe a poison set.. I didn't see a single one on my death screen all weekend. Maybe some need tweaked, but to get rid of them entirely is a mistake.
Keep and bring back specialized sets If every set is 1000 resource, 129dmg, 1 crit or pen and +350 to whatever---- that is going to suck. ( I won't talk about the "hit them with 5 light attacks and gain 3000 stamina recovery" those don't even belong in PvP) --- but if you are willing to sell out for 1 type of damage (like old Sheild Breaker, Elegant etc) it needs to be overpowered, especially if it is hurting you in another type of damage.
Spell/Weapon Damage barely matters The difference between 2500 and 5000 damage just isn't worth it. I started using more proc sets because even on my Mag Toon if I went from 2800 spell damage to 5000 spell damage, what is that? Like a dragon leap goes from 19000 to 23000? divide that in half for PvP, so now it's 9500 to 11500. Probably losing some of that because of Penetration ... regardless, it's like 1000 damage difference in the end vs people with 30,000 health on average (I remember when 25,000 health was a bit high)...
There are probably a few other reasons, I might even be wrong in some ways... but I think I'm more right than wrong, I'm in 3 different active communities of PvPers... and it seems the only people that don't agree with this sentiment are the people that can actually make a difference
Imo, There are essentially 2 ways to be good at any video game 1) you can do whatever the meta is, and just do it better than everyone else. 2) you can try to find ways to counter whatever the meta is. For a game to stay fun for a long time, both of these possibilities need to be present.
I play games for #2, my friends who I have been playing this game with since 2015 are mostly #2 also.
We used to spend hours discussing what would be the perfect 6 man, 8 man, 12 etc.. group.
Just two years ago it would be Ok--- We definitely need 1 maybe 2 CC tank types, Healers.. yup going to need two types, the ones that can stand in the heat, and maybe a burst light armor type, For damage.. ok you might want someone pumping out some steady AOE, but you also want some burst maybe execute
and that wasn't even covering what mandatory skills you really wanted, what buffs... or what sets someone might need to be wearing..
--- For me, this was the best part of the game. I have a boring ass job, I'd stand that at work and ponder this chess match type stuff.
and I know at least on the PS4 server, even the so called "elite" players who don't give a damn about the actual game, never carry seige, and despise any group over like 3 (according to their youtube) but it's more like 8 when you see them..
We now have 2 groups which are essentially META, and anything else is just straight up inferior.
1) We have AOE spamming ball group. It's the death screen with Pulsar/Sap Essence/Whirling Blades... and probably an Ultimate Dump.
or
2) High health/high defense/Werewolves tanky Stam group.
Is this the intention of the game? if so I'd rather just you say so, so I can give up hope and move on.
We could argue the reasons, but I'd say a lot of the changes made to break up "zergs" had the opposite effect--- (and I think a lot of that is because all the players I recognize on the PTS servers and who give feedback I recognize as predominately small scale or solo types who would rather farm a tower, duel, or try to 1 v X and have little if any regard for Cyrodil objectives at all)
just a few
- Immobilization Timers and Immunities have gone way too far. This is the single biggest change to the success of tight little ball groups, and the demise of the whole CC Tank/Controller Job. It just doesn't work anymore. A player spamming something like "Talons" used to be able to at least disrupt or pull a few guys out of moving ball group.... I don't even slot those type skills anymore. I had Fossilize on my bar for a bit last night, I can count the times on 1 hand it was castable. It's just to easy to rotate potions, the natural timer and all the other skills and sets to make sure your movement is never impeded.
Procs- are damage procs really the problem? Viper/Tremorscale came out 4 years ago. Maybe a nightblade is running Calaaruuns but what else? The Valasharon staff is broken every time someone moves behind a tree... Torugs, Ice Furnace, maybe a poison set.. I didn't see a single one on my death screen all weekend. Maybe some need tweaked, but to get rid of them entirely is a mistake.
Keep and bring back specialized sets If every set is 1000 resource, 129dmg, 1 crit or pen and +350 to whatever---- that is going to suck. ( I won't talk about the "hit them with 5 light attacks and gain 3000 stamina recovery" those don't even belong in PvP) --- but if you are willing to sell out for 1 type of damage (like old Sheild Breaker, Elegant etc) it needs to be overpowered, especially if it is hurting you in another type of damage.
Spell/Weapon Damage barely matters The difference between 2500 and 5000 damage just isn't worth it. I started using more proc sets because even on my Mag Toon if I went from 2800 spell damage to 5000 spell damage, what is that? Like a dragon leap goes from 19000 to 23000? divide that in half for PvP, so now it's 9500 to 11500. Probably losing some of that because of Penetration ... regardless, it's like 1000 damage difference in the end vs people with 30,000 health on average (I remember when 25,000 health was a bit high)...
There are probably a few other reasons, I might even be wrong in some ways... but I think I'm more right than wrong, I'm in 3 different active communities of PvPers... and it seems the only people that don't agree with this sentiment are the people that can actually make a difference
0
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Think you're over-romanticizing the past.
"3, 2, 1 Proxy!" + PBAoE spam + ulti dump has been the core of organized group play at least ever since ZOS introduced the Vicious Death set and before that Impulse or Spin2Win defined these groups.
Smaller groups were usually a bunch of stambros that relied on synching dawnbreakers.
At the core, organized groups are going to be outnumbered (by a lot) and thus are going to build to deliver high AoE burst damage.
Most of the things you mention are more relevant for solo/1vXers. Caluurians, Crimsons, Venomous Smite et. al, are oppressive when it's just you out there and have to deal with them; when I'm in a group I couldn;t care less about any of them expect for 2 (Earthgore and Vicious Death). Immobilization/movement changes help solos a lot more because people in groups get purges/rapids.
The biggest difference I'd say over the years is that organized group play has had to lean more on the "3, 2, 1 Proxy!" + everyone dump ulitmates at this one spot style of play because ZOS has generally made it a lot easier not to die, which basically means if their targets don;t die in the first two seconds of a push, they are going to survive, sometimes even if they just not very good because of things like Crimson or Earthgore.
4