New Status Effects (Hemorrhaging/Sundered/Overcharged) and Bleeds ...

Seraphayel

I just returned to the game and I am a bit confused about the new status effects.

So there will be:

1. Bleed Damage has a chance to apply Hemorrhaging. It deals slightly weaker damage than Burning over 4 seconds and applies Minor Mangle to the target while afflicted.

Hemorrhaging: what does "slightly weaker damage than Burning over 4 seconds" mean? It deals within 4 seconds slightly weaker damage than Burning? It deals slightly weaker damage (all at once) than Burning does within 4 seconds? And what exactly does this mean for raw numbers compared to Burning - is it like 90% of Burning's damage or what? This is so unclear.

2. Physical Damage has a chance to apply Sundered. It deals minor damage and applies Minor Breach for 4 seconds.

Sundered: again, what does minor damage mean?

3. Magic Damage has a chance to apply Overcharged. It deals minor damage and applies Minor Magickasteal for 4 seconds.

Overcharged: again, what does minor damage mean? And what exactly is considered Magic Damage in this case? Is it just skills that clearly state Magic Damage like NBs Cripple or is Frost/Fire/Lightning damage in this context considered as Magic damage as well and it's basically every damaging Magicka skill in the game?

Regarding 1.: what are the sources for Bleed damage now? As one-handed axes don't apply Bleeds anymore, we're down to: Twin Slashes (DW), Cleave (2h) and Werewolf - is there more? If not, with the two DoTs from DW and 2h that have a 3% and a 1% chance to proc Bleed in the first place the chances to proc Hemmorhaging are tiny at best (unless a proc of Bleed inevitably causes Hemorrhaging to happen) - or am I missing something here? Edit: I just found out that Wardens at least have two skills that can inflict Bleeds, Cutting Dive (Stamina morph of Dive) and Growing Swarm (Stamina morph of Swarm).

Has anyone tested or parsed these new status effects - if so, what was the outcome? Do they have an internal CD?

I'm so confused what the idea behind these new effects is besides proccing some more debuffs, the damage component really seems absolutely irrelevant.

This video has the new effects covered and some parses: Hemorrhaging damage doesn't seem to be too bad, Sundered is pretty much a joke and Overcharged deals around 40% of Burning's tick damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8M50tZpO7g&ab_channel=ArzyeLGaming

Firstmep

Few things: magic damage is exactly that, like nightblades cripple etc.
If it entailed fire frost etc it would be magical attacks.
This is why I'm glad they are calling the Stamina based elements martial attacks now instead of physical.

The new bleed status effect is a dot, that deals a bit less dmg than burning, since these things don't have a set amount of dmg, but deal dmg based on your stats, and instead having scaling coefficients, they can't really put a nice round number there and say this is how much dmg it does.
They used burning as a point of reference.
The exact number im not sure about, would be nice if one of the devs said it scales like 10% less than burning or whatever.
The new status effects were put in as their corresponding elements didn't have one before, and now they do, it's really just that.
There are definetly fewer bleed sources after the axe changes, and apart from crimson twilight their all dots, so yeah, the proc rate on hemmorhage won't be super high.

JoSePHRiNG

Hemorrhaging looks good on theory but as you said there is not much way to get it.

Because bleed damage skills are limited outside of a few weapons skills and Warden stamina skills.

I wish they make new enchantment that causes "Bleed damage", then everyone can use this. But on the other side, it is powerful since it applies "Minor Mangle".

Ganondroid

Stamden has growing swarm and cutting dive during off balance for more bleeds. Otherwise that's all I can take think of right now other than sets that have bleed damage.

robpr

Ganondroid wrote: »

Stamden has growing swarm and cutting dive during off balance for more bleeds. Otherwise that's all I can take think of right now other than sets that have bleed damage.

Twin Slashes, Rend and Carve are considered bleeds for sets like Dro'Zakar or Bloodrinker so they should proc Hemo. Haven't tested yet.

Dracane

Why is this such a conundrum to many? This is the 3rd thread asking this. Just like diseased, chilled and concussion deal a bit of damage when they proc in addition to the debuffs they apply, so will Sunder and Overcharge. It's in fact the same value as those. For me it's usually around 1000 damage for any of these effects or closer to 2000 with a crit build.

katorga

So they effectively gave warden a dedicated status effect?

Olupajmibanan

Barbed Trap should deal bleed damage. Fits well thematically and would give more classes better accessibility to the status effect.

Vevvev

katorga wrote: »

So they effectively gave warden a dedicated status effect?

And vampire to a lesser extent. I know one of the complaints was vampire's main damage type didn't proc a status effect and the sustain of vampire is pretty bad due to the cost increase debuff. This might make it easier to sustain as one when using lots of non-vampire abilities thrown on.

Ganondroid

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Barbed Trap should deal bleed damage. Fits well thematically and would give more classes better accessibility to the status effect.

I agree, I would like to see caltrops made back into a dps skill and changed to bleed damage as well. It would make the status effect easily accessible to all classes and in an aoe.

Evil_Rurouni

Seraphayel wrote: »

3. Magic Damage has a chance to apply Overcharged. It deals minor damage and applies Minor Magickasteal for 4 seconds.

what exactly is considered Magic Damage in this case? Is it just skills that clearly state Magic Damage like NBs Cripple or is Frost/Fire/Lightning damage in this context considered as Magic damage as well and it's basically every damaging Magicka skill in the game?

There are 4 types of damage that can be caused by skills that cost magicka to cast.

1/ Fire Damage. Causes Burning.
2/ Shock Damage. Causes Concussed.
3/ Ice Damage. Causes Chilled.
4/ Magic Damage. Causes Overcharged.

magic damage is pretty much the catch all category of anything that costs magika that isn't fire, shock or ice.

ZoS really need to rename "magic damage" to something else to disambiguate from magika.
I'd suggest "non-elemental magic damage" or possibly "Aedric damage"

Vevvev

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

3. Magic Damage has a chance to apply Overcharged. It deals minor damage and applies Minor Magickasteal for 4 seconds.

what exactly is considered Magic Damage in this case? Is it just skills that clearly state Magic Damage like NBs Cripple or is Frost/Fire/Lightning damage in this context considered as Magic damage as well and it's basically every damaging Magicka skill in the game?

There are 4 types of damage that can be caused by skills that cost magicka to cast.

1/ Fire Damage. Causes Burning.
2/ Shock Damage. Causes Concussed.
3/ Ice Damage. Causes Chilled.
4/ Magic Damage. Causes Overcharged.

magic damage is pretty much the catch all category of anything that costs magika that isn't fire, shock or ice.

ZoS really need to rename "magic damage" to something else to disambiguate from magika.
I'd suggest "non-elemental magic damage" or possibly "Aedric damage"

They could also call it Pure Magic Damage or Soul Damage. Soul damage was a family member's idea when I discussed this with them. We actually struggled to find another name since Magic Damage is a perfect descriptor for what it's doing to you.

Josira

Vevvev wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

3. Magic Damage has a chance to apply Overcharged. It deals minor damage and applies Minor Magickasteal for 4 seconds.

what exactly is considered Magic Damage in this case? Is it just skills that clearly state Magic Damage like NBs Cripple or is Frost/Fire/Lightning damage in this context considered as Magic damage as well and it's basically every damaging Magicka skill in the game?

There are 4 types of damage that can be caused by skills that cost magicka to cast.

1/ Fire Damage. Causes Burning.
2/ Shock Damage. Causes Concussed.
3/ Ice Damage. Causes Chilled.
4/ Magic Damage. Causes Overcharged.

magic damage is pretty much the catch all category of anything that costs magika that isn't fire, shock or ice.

ZoS really need to rename "magic damage" to something else to disambiguate from magika.
I'd suggest "non-elemental magic damage" or possibly "Aedric damage"

They could also call it Pure Magic Damage or Soul Damage. Soul damage was a family member's idea when I discussed this with them. We actually struggled to find another name since Magic Damage is a perfect descriptor for what it's doing to you.

Entropic Damage? Entropic damage could work

Vevvev

Josira wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

3. Magic Damage has a chance to apply Overcharged. It deals minor damage and applies Minor Magickasteal for 4 seconds.

what exactly is considered Magic Damage in this case? Is it just skills that clearly state Magic Damage like NBs Cripple or is Frost/Fire/Lightning damage in this context considered as Magic damage as well and it's basically every damaging Magicka skill in the game?

There are 4 types of damage that can be caused by skills that cost magicka to cast.

1/ Fire Damage. Causes Burning.
2/ Shock Damage. Causes Concussed.
3/ Ice Damage. Causes Chilled.
4/ Magic Damage. Causes Overcharged.

magic damage is pretty much the catch all category of anything that costs magika that isn't fire, shock or ice.

ZoS really need to rename "magic damage" to something else to disambiguate from magika.
I'd suggest "non-elemental magic damage" or possibly "Aedric damage"

They could also call it Pure Magic Damage or Soul Damage. Soul damage was a family member's idea when I discussed this with them. We actually struggled to find another name since Magic Damage is a perfect descriptor for what it's doing to you.

Entropic Damage? Entropic damage could work

It could, especially with the Mage's Guild ability which describes itself at doing just that, but then there is Soul trap and Soul Strike, the Vampire attacks, and so many more... Unless you come up with new damage types Magic Damage is too much of a blanket term to rename.

Mindcr0w

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

ZoS really need to rename "magic damage" to something else to disambiguate from magika.
I'd suggest "non-elemental magic damage" or possibly "Aedric damage"

So we'd have things like Daedric Tomb & Daedric Prey doing Aedric damage? Nah.

What about Arcane?

Evil_Rurouni

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

ZoS really need to rename "magic damage" to something else to disambiguate from magika.
I'd suggest "non-elemental magic damage" or possibly "Aedric damage"

So we'd have things like Daedric Tomb & Daedric Prey doing Aedric damage? Nah.

What about Arcane?

That could work.
TBH, almost any name that isn't easily confused with magika would do, either by removing mag from the term completely or by adding a specifying term.

"Arcane" is a generic enouth term to do the job without creating oddites like the daedric examples above, so sure, that'll do.

francesinhalover

Firstmep wrote: »

Few things: magic damage is exactly that, like nightblades cripple etc.
If it entailed fire frost etc it would be magical attacks.
This is why I'm glad they are calling the Stamina based elements martial attacks now instead of physical.

The new bleed status effect is a dot, that deals a bit less dmg than burning, since these things don't have a set amount of dmg, but deal dmg based on your stats, and instead having scaling coefficients, they can't really put a nice round number there and say this is how much dmg it does.
They used burning as a point of reference.
The exact number im not sure about, would be nice if one of the devs said it scales like 10% less than burning or whatever.
The new status effects were put in as their corresponding elements didn't have one before, and now they do, it's really just that.
There are definetly fewer bleed sources after the axe changes, and apart from crimson twilight their all dots, so yeah, the proc rate on hemmorhage won't be super high.

Does it steal do damage over time? Or is bleed status useless?

robpr

francesinhalover wrote: »

Does it steal do damage over time? Or is bleed status useless?

It still does damage and minor mangle.

virtus753

It also counts for stacks of Force of Nature, which is supposedly fixed on PTS per the patch notes.

Mr_Stach

Warden has Bleeds but 0 ways to amplify it, no way to do extra bleed damage outside of wearing Blooddrinker set which is a waste of a 5pc in my opinion. Warden also has decent ways to Proc Hemo with Wild Guardian (4x the proc chance) and Cutting Dive (2x Proc chance on Off-Balance). Still the Issue is that Last Patch Zos really gave the impression they were moving in the direction on giving Stamden it's special flavor, this patch they decided it's special flavor was to be in a Wheelchair and took away Stamden's ONLY Damage Passive for a Pen Passive, which pen is still useful sure, but in a group we're all pen capped anyways.