Issues with slottable stars and Craft constellation.

AlexWaff

This is quite a big issue, in my opinion, that nobody seems to be talking about.
Namely - having slottable stars that you have to choose between, while a great idea, is being executes in the worst way right now.

I understand the core idea - separate the boring "passive" skills that just buff certain stats, or provide flat increases and generic bonuses and more impactful, stronger ones that can even alter your whole build. Great idea, on paper!

I looked over a list of all the constellations currently, and I noticed the thing I was scared of - over half of all the stars are "slottable" ones, that need to be slotted to be used. That means over half of your cp will go into things you won't even be using. But the real problem comes with the fact that

MOST of the slottable skills are actually things that should really be passive to begin with!

Of course, yes - there are some really cool ones that sound pretty powerful, and make sense to be slottable - powerful tanking, healer, or dps skills that change up your playstyle and you only want active on specific characters, definitely not something to be given to everybody all the time. But for every one of those, we have about 3 "flat stat increase" skills, that you will either never take, or will only take the most very powerful ones that end up being "meta", which is neither interesting not all that impactful.

But even that is not as big of a problem, since we'll potentially end up with fewer of those as they get changed, and only ones that you change whenever you change buids. Fine.

The real problem, and I'd argue a great, ridiculous one, is the Craft tree.
This, indeed, is a mess. There's multiple problems with it's over half skills that are "slottable". Let's start with the multiple "extremely situational, fringe case ones.

These would be ones like "Reduce armor repair costs", "increase value of fenced items" and, most horribly "Once a day, remove 1k gold from your bounty if it exceeds it".
All of these are skills which are useless, except in the very small windows when you repair your armor, get 1k bounty, or fence stolen goods. This makes them something not even worth getting, because it would be tedious to swap them in and out and in and out every time you do their related thing. Even worse, the bounty one has a 1 day COOLDOWN. So you literally don't even benefit from it. They're all, not only a waste of a slot, but a time waster. These skills should, without a doubt, be passive, and that's that.

Next, we have all of the "reduce harvest time" "increase harvest yield' "fishing rates" "fishing time" "movement speed" etc. These, on paper, sound alright - you will swap them when you're going to go gathering, or when you go fishing, or when you craft writs, or when you deconstruct items, and so on. The problem here is that these are all things we already have, active all the time, for free. It makes sense to swap them, but it's yet again busy work, and it will even more so - discourage you from grabbing that random mining node, or that fishing hole, while you quest - knowing you'll be *losing out* unless you change your build, which you won't want to bother with.

To drive this point even further - both of these previous categories are ones that are only useful for small, specific things, and do not interact in any way with combat or provide any kind of power creep if you were to have them active passively all of the time. Unlike the other two skill lines, where it would be unfaur to give you powerful tanking buffs that is on alongside all the powerful healing buffs, and all powerful dps buffs, here it does not matter if you get them on all the time, except reducing wasted time going into menus to change them for every piece of gear you deconstruct/craft, every node you harvest, every fish, every armor piece you repair, every time you get a bounty, every time you turn in a fenced good, etc. Why is the "merchant prices buff" one passive, but half of these active? There's no pattern to it.

Then, the third type of active buffs, are useful ones that alter combat, like extending food buffs, giving you free potion uses, ressurect faster, etc. Those are things that make more sense to be slottable, although an argument can be made for that they are, still, things we get to have on all the time now, and will be getting effectively nerfed by being turned into a hassle.

Ultimately, I think the solution is to make most of the Craft constellation skills passive, and either introduce more powerful, impactful skills to choose between so that it makes sense and is not a chore you have to do every single time you do a menial task.
EDIT: Even better, it adressing both issues with Craft skills being better off passive, and the other two having too many slottable skills, would be to simply make the craft skills all passive with no slottables, and give its slots to the other 2 constellations, for more room to pick interesting/working builds from the way-too-many slottables. (say, for a total of 6 for each of the 2, and no slottables in craft.)

tsaescishoeshiner

I really, really don't want to re-slot stars before harvesting a node or repairing armor, and definitely not before fighting different enemies/bosses within a dungeon. It takes me out of the game and slows things down. I really hope they address the need for this, but it doesn't seem like it's considered an issue

Dracane

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I really, really don't want to re-slot stars before harvesting a node or repairing armor, and definitely not before fighting different enemies/bosses within a dungeon. It takes me out of the game and slows things down. I really hope they address the need for this, but it doesn't seem like it's considered an issue

I will be doing it. I will even port to CP pvp from No CP pvp just to repair and sell.
But I see how this will annoy many. Perhaps if they introduced presets you could switch to for free with a button press as long as you have unlocked said passives, could be a solution.

Nordic__Knights

AlexWaff wrote: »

This is quite a big issue, in my opinion, that nobody seems to be talking about.
Namely - having slottable stars that you have to choose between, while a great idea, is being executes in the worst way right now.

I understand the core idea - separate the boring "passive" skills that just buff certain stats, or provide flat increases and generic bonuses and more impactful, stronger ones that can even alter your whole build. Great idea, on paper!

I looked over a list of all the constellations currently, and I noticed the thing I was scared of - over half of all the stars are "slottable" ones, that need to be slotted to be used. That means over half of your cp will go into things you won't even be using. But the real problem comes with the fact that

MOST of the slottable skills are actually things that should really be passive to begin with!

Of course, yes - there are some really cool ones that sound pretty powerful, and make sense to be slottable - powerful tanking, healer, or dps skills that change up your playstyle and you only want active on specific characters, definitely not something to be given to everybody all the time. But for every one of those, we have about 3 "flat stat increase" skills, that you will either never take, or will only take the most very powerful ones that end up being "meta", which is neither interesting not all that impactful.

But even that is not as big of a problem, since we'll potentially end up with fewer of those as they get changed, and only ones that you change whenever you change buids. Fine.

The real problem, and I'd argue a great, ridiculous one, is the Craft tree.
This, indeed, is a mess. There's multiple problems with it's over half skills that are "slottable". Let's start with the multiple "extremely situational, fringe case ones.

These would be ones like "Reduce armor repair costs", "increase value of fenced items" and, most horribly "Once a day, remove 1k gold from your bounty if it exceeds it".
All of these are skills which are useless, except in the very small windows when you repair your armor, get 1k bounty, or fence stolen goods. This makes them something not even worth getting, because it would be tedious to swap them in and out and in and out every time you do their related thing. Even worse, the bounty one has a 1 day COOLDOWN. So you literally don't even benefit from it. They're all, not only a waste of a slot, but a time waster. These skills should, without a doubt, be passive, and that's that.

Next, we have all of the "reduce harvest time" "increase harvest yield' "fishing rates" "fishing time" "movement speed" etc. These, on paper, sound alright - you will swap them when you're going to go gathering, or when you go fishing, or when you craft writs, or when you deconstruct items, and so on. The problem here is that these are all things we already have, active all the time, for free. It makes sense to swap them, but it's yet again busy work, and it will even more so - discourage you from grabbing that random mining node, or that fishing hole, while you quest - knowing you'll be *losing out* unless you change your build, which you won't want to bother with.

To drive this point even further - both of these previous categories are ones that are only useful for small, specific things, and do not interact in any way with combat or provide any kind of power creep if you were to have them active passively all of the time. Unlike the other two skill lines, where it would be unfaur to give you powerful tanking buffs that is on alongside all the powerful healing buffs, and all powerful dps buffs, here it does not matter if you get them on all the time, except reducing wasted time going into menus to change them for every piece of gear you deconstruct/craft, every node you harvest, every fish, every armor piece you repair, every time you get a bounty, every time you turn in a fenced good, etc. Why is the "merchant prices buff" one passive, but half of these active? There's no pattern to it.

Then, the third type of active buffs, are useful ones that alter combat, like extending food buffs, giving you free potion uses, ressurect faster, etc. Those are things that make more sense to be slottable, although an argument can be made for that they are, still, things we get to have on all the time now, and will be getting effectively nerfed by being turned into a hassle.

Ultimately, I think the solution is to make most of the Craft constellation skills passive, and either introduce more powerful, impactful skills to choose between so that it makes sense and is not a chore you have to do every single time you do a menial task.
EDIT: Even better, it adressing both issues with Craft skills being better off passive, and the other two having too many slottable skills, would be to simply make the craft skills all passive with no slottables, and give its slots to the other 2 constellations, for more room to pick interesting/working builds from the way-too-many slottables. (say, for a total of 6 for each of the 2, and no slottables in craft.)

I LIKE THE NO SLOTS IN GREEN WITH ADD OF 2 TO EACH OTHER TREE IDEA HERES WHY

green tree is our everyday UOL tree so to say and shouldnt need to be changed so much , i mean who changes paths in their lifes every time the do an activity

by only adding 2 per other tree making max 6 per tree dd builds that need more slots to make builds like bow/bow work would have them and tanks that need an lil dd added for solo play has it
only way i see 6 slots per dd/health tree being an issue is in pvp but thats why there is NON-CP PVP there aint NON CP PVE and PVE IS WHATS TAKING THE BIG HIT TO BUILDS BEING UESFUL WITH THIS NEW SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(so if you cant do something at low cp dont take what you can become away from them that can just work to be there then come back for all you pvp people that think everyone should be the same no matter what )

stefj68

i feel bad that all my green gained cp goes into crafting
all the dps / tank / heal one are in one..
last one is recovery / regen

very poor design in my perspective

should have been something like 1 constellation dps, 1 tank, 1 healing... they want all class to be able to do all roles that would have been a better approch

and a special 2nd pool of champions points for just the crafting aspect...

but they pushed that, what ever i have to say won't change a things

they could have keep the current cp system, just change the passive perks(10,30,75,120 points), to slottable slots that we could pick skills and that would already been better then what they are propose now...

wish they consult the players when they want to make dramatic change like that

AlexWaff

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

I LIKE THE NO SLOTS IN GREEN WITH ADD OF 2 TO EACH OTHER TREE IDEA HERES WHY

green tree is our everyday UOL tree so to say and shouldnt need to be changed so much , i mean who changes paths in their lifes every time the do an activity

Yep, that's the idea. It seems like it can be the healthiest in the long run, too. The crafting tree inherently has no "power creep", you can't be "overpowered" if all of the skills can be active given you unlocked them, since they all buff very specific different aspects of non-combat slightly - meaning you can only benefit of one of them at a time, and it only removes the micromanaging factor.

Meanwhile, giving even just 2 extra slots to the other two, adresses the problem of them having way too many slottable skills that are relatively unimpactful, allowing for more interesting builds to be made without outright giving everybody everything always, which would be boring.
Of course, the exact number of slots and number of active constellations for the 2 combat constellations can be constantly tweaked, and it is fine as long as craft remains inherently, always passive with no slottables.

McGordon

All I see is, ZoS give us more charachter slots, ZoS I want all in 1 character. So what's the point of having multiple characters if u all want all in 1 toon? Harvest and repair armor with other toon, where is the problem? U have at least 9 slots, plenty for 1pvp, 1dps,1tank,1heal,1craft. Thats only 5.so 4more to express yourself how u want.
I wish there would be 0 pasive and all of that nonsense would be slotable.

renne

Dracane wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I really, really don't want to re-slot stars before harvesting a node or repairing armor, and definitely not before fighting different enemies/bosses within a dungeon. It takes me out of the game and slows things down. I really hope they address the need for this, but it doesn't seem like it's considered an issue

I will be doing it. I will even port to CP pvp from No CP pvp just to repair and sell.
But I see how this will annoy many. Perhaps if they introduced presets you could switch to for free with a button press as long as you have unlocked said passives, could be a solution.

I imagine they expect someone on PC to make an addon for it so they don't have to put it in the game. Which, of course, sucks majorly for us on console, because it'll be yet another missing console QoL thing that never goes into the base game.

Olupajmibanan

renne wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I really, really don't want to re-slot stars before harvesting a node or repairing armor, and definitely not before fighting different enemies/bosses within a dungeon. It takes me out of the game and slows things down. I really hope they address the need for this, but it doesn't seem like it's considered an issue

I will be doing it. I will even port to CP pvp from No CP pvp just to repair and sell.
But I see how this will annoy many. Perhaps if they introduced presets you could switch to for free with a button press as long as you have unlocked said passives, could be a solution.

I imagine they expect someone on PC to make an addon for it so they don't have to put it in the game. Which, of course, sucks majorly for us on console, because it'll be yet another missing console QoL thing that never goes into the base game.

CP preset addon already exists (Champion Points Respec). The addon maker just have to rework it to new CP, which is very possible that he is doing already.

renne

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I really, really don't want to re-slot stars before harvesting a node or repairing armor, and definitely not before fighting different enemies/bosses within a dungeon. It takes me out of the game and slows things down. I really hope they address the need for this, but it doesn't seem like it's considered an issue

I will be doing it. I will even port to CP pvp from No CP pvp just to repair and sell.
But I see how this will annoy many. Perhaps if they introduced presets you could switch to for free with a button press as long as you have unlocked said passives, could be a solution.

I imagine they expect someone on PC to make an addon for it so they don't have to put it in the game. Which, of course, sucks majorly for us on console, because it'll be yet another missing console QoL thing that never goes into the base game.

CP preset addon already exists (Champion Points Respec). The addon maker just have to rework it to new CP, which is very possible that he is doing already.

Yes. And like I said. Someone will make it for PC and QoL on console will be once again ignored.

ketsparrowhawk

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

renne wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I really, really don't want to re-slot stars before harvesting a node or repairing armor, and definitely not before fighting different enemies/bosses within a dungeon. It takes me out of the game and slows things down. I really hope they address the need for this, but it doesn't seem like it's considered an issue

I will be doing it. I will even port to CP pvp from No CP pvp just to repair and sell.
But I see how this will annoy many. Perhaps if they introduced presets you could switch to for free with a button press as long as you have unlocked said passives, could be a solution.

I imagine they expect someone on PC to make an addon for it so they don't have to put it in the game. Which, of course, sucks majorly for us on console, because it'll be yet another missing console QoL thing that never goes into the base game.

CP preset addon already exists (Champion Points Respec). The addon maker just have to rework it to new CP, which is very possible that he is doing already.

I'm betting/hoping Dressing Room and Alpha Gear will incorporate the slottable CP stars as well.

TwinLamps

Suggested changes:
Green marked stars should become passive.
Some of these already cost a ton to get, some are not hugely impactful, and I find zero logic in slottable food bonus passive, imho.
I mean you either have fast metabolism or not, it shouldnt be on and off thing lmoa af

EDIT:
Data from @Alcast 's and Woeler's site, eso-hub.com