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Elf Bane needs to be Reverted!
VoidCommander
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Just tested this on PTS and my worst feel was realized. If you start combat with a flame ability that doesn't require a target to fire, it WILL NOT get the 5 second duration bonus. I realize that ZOS is trying to prevent pre-buffing for score pushers, but this change is going to negatively affect way too many people to be worth it. Not even light attack weaving first fixes the problem. Moondancer, jorvalds, I can understand, but who is getting any score bonuses from Elf Bane? Anyone who runs it is usually keeping it on during the fight. Please don't go through with this combat requirement for Elf Bane ZOS. It is so damaging to the greater playerbase and it serves literally no purpose.
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colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Should just change it to not boost destro ulti while not in combat, no one is hurt in the end.2 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doesn't sound like a prebuff issue at all, since it's not the player receiving a direct benefit. It's not transferable to other skills.
Probably there's a check going on about 'are you in combat with the target' which isn't registering first strikes?
I'm curious if other proc sets also won't hit on the first attack.PC NA1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't like the Jorvuld's change because it messed with the readability of the set. You want to be able to see the longer durations in your tooltip and 99% of the time you are not going to read them in combat. I understand that pre-buffing is cheese and somewhat against the purpose of using dummies to practise for real situations, but understand that this change hits players without addons more than it hits the players with addons, when it is the players with addons that can even pull off this set-switching pre-buff strategy in the first place.
Elf Bane has the same issue as Jorvuld's, only worse. You want to be able to tell that wearing Elf Bane is making your character stronger from the tool tips alone. It needs to show you that additional duration even out of combat. That Elfbane is not active on your first spell(s) only makes this so so so much worse. There is more harm to this change than merit.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.6 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I was afraid of this as well, and annoyed by the fact that they touched this set.
So in order to keep players from getting 5 extra seconds on their first destro ult in a fight, everyone that uses Elf Bane has to deal with this...colossalvoids wrote: »Should just change it to not boost destro ulti while not in combat, no one is hurt in the end.
Or they could just remove the 2 second delay on Elemental Rage so it puts the player in combat immediately.Playing since beta...2 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doesn't sound like a prebuff issue at all, since it's not the player receiving a direct benefit. It's not transferable to other skills.
Probably there's a check going on about 'are you in combat with the target' which isn't registering first strikes?
I'm curious if other proc sets also won't hit on the first attack.
As Kojou pointed out, it's the 2 second delay on the Destro ultimate that makes this an issue in the first place. You wear elfbane, ult, then switch sets in those 2 seconds (using addons) and start your actual parse.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seventh Legion and Dead-water Guile. Two of my favorite sets for Cyro, are getting ruined for the sake of these score pushers.
ZOS, nobody cares about these score pushing cheese mongers! Maybe try not to ruin sets for the majority because you can't figure out a way to fix the actual "problem".PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.16 -
Elo106✭✭✭✭✭Instead of changing so many sets why dont they just add a debuff on you every time you change an armor piece. 5 sec -50% damage. That would stop the prebuff and not mess with so much other things.
IF prebuffing is something they want to stop that is.3 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Instead of changing so many sets why dont they just add a debuff on you every time you change an armor piece. 5 sec -50% damage. That would stop the prebuff and not mess with so much other things.
IF prebuffing is something they want to stop that is.
If they were going that route then I would rather they put in an artificial delay in the API that allows armor swapping. Just make it wait for 500 ms per armor piece. That way if someone tries to "prebuff" it would take 2.5 seconds to get all 5 peices changed and they wouldn't be able to do so before the first "tick" of the desto ult.Playing since beta...0 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Instead of changing so many sets why dont they just add a debuff on you every time you change an armor piece. 5 sec -50% damage. That would stop the prebuff and not mess with so much other things.
IF prebuffing is something they want to stop that is.
I hope someone reads this and face palms themselves.....
PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.2 -
Lucky_jackalSoul ShrivenInstead of changing so many sets why dont they just add a debuff on you every time you change an armor piece. 5 sec -50% damage. That would stop the prebuff and not mess with so much other things.
IF prebuffing is something they want to stop that is.
If they were going that route then I would rather they put in an artificial delay in the API that allows armor swapping. Just make it wait for 500 ms per armor piece. That way if someone tries to "prebuff" it would take 2.5 seconds to get all 5 peices changed and they wouldn't be able to do so before the first "tick" of the desto ult.
^Or make it 1 second per piece so there wouldn’t be any benefit to using the quick change to get a prebuff bonus. If 500 ms isn’t enough.0 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As Kojou pointed out, it's the 2 second delay on the Destro ultimate that makes this an issue in the first place. You wear elfbane, ult, then switch sets in those 2 seconds (using addons) and start your actual parse.
Wait, people prebuff with one set and switch to another for a parse?
PC players are wild. No wonder they all act like the sky is falling if a single addon stops working.5 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doesn't sound like a prebuff issue at all, since it's not the player receiving a direct benefit. It's not transferable to other skills.
Probably there's a check going on about 'are you in combat with the target' which isn't registering first strikes?
I'm curious if other proc sets also won't hit on the first attack.
As Kojou pointed out, it's the 2 second delay on the Destro ultimate that makes this an issue in the first place. You wear elfbane, ult, then switch sets in those 2 seconds (using addons) and start your actual parse.
Dang all that for a single ult opener. People are cheesing way too hard, but it does sound more like a 'certain fire DoTs' problem where the 'fix' impacts all fire DoT skills for normal users of the set.
Removing the buff on a single boss/parse score pusher vs. impacting a character that could be using the set 100% of their time overland and sometimes in a group making first attacks is too much.
Hopefully there's an alternative they could implement.Edited by Fennwitty on February 8, 2021 9:26PMPC NA2 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As Kojou pointed out, it's the 2 second delay on the Destro ultimate that makes this an issue in the first place. You wear elfbane, ult, then switch sets in those 2 seconds (using addons) and start your actual parse.
Wait, people prebuff with one set and switch to another for a parse?
PC players are wild. No wonder they all act like the sky is falling if a single addon stops working.
Yes... I think it is totally stupid, but that's what happens when players want to push a score on something. Every advantage is considered no matter how small.
Playing since beta...3 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭VoidCommander wrote: »Just tested this on PTS and my worst feel was realized. If you start combat with a flame ability that doesn't require a target to fire, it WILL NOT get the 5 second duration bonus. I realize that ZOS is trying to prevent pre-buffing for score pushers, but this change is going to negatively affect way too many people to be worth it. Not even light attack weaving first fixes the problem. Moondancer, jorvalds, I can understand, but who is getting any score bonuses from Elf Bane? Anyone who runs it is usually keeping it on during the fight. Please don't go through with this combat requirement for Elf Bane ZOS. It is so damaging to the greater playerbase and it serves literally no purpose.
People still using moondancer? It has been over 3 years since last heard of this, I'm baffled.2 -
Kuratius✭✭✭Everyone knows that making sets in-combat-only is dumb, but ZOS hasn't gotten that memo.
If they want to nerf pre-buff sets in a sensible way, it is trivial to fix them.
The first way would be to make them start on cooldown when first equipped, and for sets with a duration to lock a player's equipment while the duration has not finished. Another, but programmatically slightly more involved way would be to simply remove buffs gained from a set when it is unequipped; ZOS has shown that they have that capability before.Edited by Kuratius on February 9, 2021 6:15AM1 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea.Seventh Legion makes zero sense. It procs off casting a pre-buff.
You don't generally want to be running around in PvP without your armor buff active, regardless of class, and having to cast it again at the start of any combat in order to get the 5 piece bonus is clunky and more magicka intensive than it should be. And I say that as a player who thinks that Stamina has been mostly dominant in PvP for years now.2 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭A lot of not logical thingth changed.
But as example real problems like vamp cloud abusing and overpowered Veteshrain destro was not fixed ?
No changes in races and do CP change make it more horizontally or more horizontally nerf ?
Sets changes is not a problem. You start attacking after tank taunt boss.
All it nerf are only on dummy, and yes i lose 2 k dummy DPS this way too.
But dummy dps =\= real dps.
Yes we lose some dummy dps with thischanges.
Welcome to my world. My real dps is good, not that good on dummy.
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Larcomar✭✭✭✭✭Oh for *"*&% sake. they nerfed elfbane as well? This is starting to feel like theproverbial seldgehammer and the proverbial nut.....3
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Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Every time i think of touching my poor mdk zos cripples her before i even get to play her...4 -
VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭Mettaricana wrote: »Every time i think of touching my poor mdk zos cripples her before i even get to play her...
Imagine maining templar since launch.
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kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VoidCommander wrote: »Mettaricana wrote: »Every time i think of touching my poor mdk zos cripples her before i even get to play her...
Imagine maining templar since launch.
I use my Templar a lot... they have a a lot going for them right now.Playing since beta...0