Overturned Abilities and Sets

SgtNuttzmeg

Artic Blast, Crimison and Eternal Vigor are still very overturned on the pts. We need a substantial change to both of these sets and this skill. Reducing sustain by 5% won't be enough. Blocking is also overturned, especially in the new CP system.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

* overtuned

SidraWillowsky

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

Artic Blast, Crimison and Eternal Vigor are still very overturned on the pts. We need a substantial change to both of these sets and this skill. Reducing sustain by 5% won't be enough. Blocking is also overturned, especially in the new CP system.

Arctic blast is fine on magwarden, IMO. If they're going to increase the cost of a stam ability with light armor, they need to increase the cost of mag abilities with medium armor.

Don't change arctic blast for PvP when it's fine for PvE

neo7185

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

Artic Blast, Crimison and Eternal Vigor are still very overturned on the pts. We need a substantial change to both of these sets and this skill. Reducing sustain by 5% won't be enough. Blocking is also overturned, especially in the new CP system.

As a core PvP'r, I fully support you on the Crimson nerf. I was really surprised it didn't receive one. I've been telling my buddies for months that the two things I couldn't wait for was a nerf to WW and Crimson. Oh it's a WW, crimson....oh it's a stamblade, crimson....etc. I'm so sick of this set in PvP. The tanky zergling mentality is bad enough in PvP without crutch sets like this.

dcmgti

I think EV is fine. Crimson maybe a little overtuned but isn't the Crimson proc blockable? I don't think blocking is overtuned at all. People need a way to mitigate the insane amount of damage that's in pvp currently. Blocking itself is fine but the people I see perma blocking are 40k+ hp tanks and or Harbinger tanks.

honey_badger82

crimson is already nerfed in PvP isnt it? 50% less healing from all sources. Let's not nerf things that are not broke in PvE for the sake of PvP players. These swing changes in favor of PvP over PvE and vice versa need to stop.
When you are in vet DLC dungeons and the boss nails you for like 10k damage THROUGH you blocking with a 75% mitigation then 8k health every 8 seconds is not OP by any means.
At best I firmly believe equipped sets should not be affected by your stats and CP. Some already are like that, winters respite cannot be buffed. it has a flat value.

Renegader

honey_badger82 wrote: »

crimson is already nerfed in PvP isnt it? 50% less healing from all sources. Let's not nerf things that are not broke in PvE for the sake of PvP players. These swing changes in favor of PvP over PvE and vice versa need to stop.
When you are in vet DLC dungeons and the boss nails you for like 10k damage THROUGH you blocking with a 75% mitigation then 8k health every 8 seconds is not OP by any means.
At best I firmly believe equipped sets should not be affected by your stats and CP. Some already are like that, winters respite cannot be buffed. it has a flat value.

crimson ignores the healing debuff, but not the damage debuff

neo7185

honey_badger82 wrote: »

crimson is already nerfed in PvP isnt it? 50% less healing from all sources. Let's not nerf things that are not broke in PvE for the sake of PvP players. These swing changes in favor of PvP over PvE and vice versa need to stop.
When you are in vet DLC dungeons and the boss nails you for like 10k damage THROUGH you blocking with a 75% mitigation then 8k health every 8 seconds is not OP by any means.
At best I firmly believe equipped sets should not be affected by your stats and CP. Some already are like that, winters respite cannot be buffed. it has a flat value.

1. Do PvP'rs scream louder than PvE'rs? Yep i'll own that 100%. If you dealt with all that we did, game breaking lag being on top of that list you would too lol.
2. In a perfect world the functunality of skills and sets would be different between PvE and PvP, but that isn't the case. We're forced to deal with each other
3. PvE gets vastly more content/focus every single time.
4. Crimson is not a widely used set for PvE. Particularly by mid/higher teir players. It is however, abused like crazy in PvP.

The problem with the set isn't the damage it causes. That's very little. The problem is the heal and frequency of it.

Urzigurumash

We are headed towards an era where 95% of PvP players are wearing Crimson. Right now I'd say it's about 50%.

Daemonai

None of the above listed is overtuned, except for maybe Artic Blast with all its secondary effects.

SgtNuttzmeg

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

Artic Blast, Crimison and Eternal Vigor are still very overturned on the pts. We need a substantial change to both of these sets and this skill. Reducing sustain by 5% won't be enough. Blocking is also overturned, especially in the new CP system.

Arctic blast is fine on magwarden, IMO. If they're going to increase the cost of a stam ability with light armor, they need to increase the cost of mag abilities with medium armor.

Don't change arctic blast for PvP when it's fine for PvE

Personally I would rather see a health cap implemented. If that happened this heal wouldn't be so overtuned. However tying a stun to a spamable heal that can crit for 6-8k after battle spirit is not healthy. Nobody needs that level of healing. I agree though a general cost increase if it was high enough would be enough of a nerf.

dcmgti wrote: »

I think EV is fine. Crimson maybe a little overtuned but isn't the Crimson proc blockable? I don't think blocking is overtuned at all. People need a way to mitigate the insane amount of damage that's in pvp currently. Blocking itself is fine but the people I see perma blocking are 40k+ hp tanks and or Harbinger tanks.

The problem is blocking or getting out of the area does reduce the heal but often times in overland pvp there are enough people arround where not everybody can get out of the aoe. If this hits enough people it doesn't matter if you blocked or not. The heal is enough to fully reset the bar. I would be happy to see a general decrease in damage done by this set or atleast making the set blocked & canceled by negates.

Blocking is very overtuned at this point. It is way too easy to sustain and next patch it will only get easier with the changes to CP. On non onehanded/ frost staff builds block is fine but these skill lines provide it too cheaply without any potential counter play.

SgtNuttzmeg

Urzigurumash wrote: »

We are headed towards an era where 95% of PvP players are wearing Crimson. Right now I'd say it's about 50%.

Which is definitely not what it should be. Crimison is absolutely terrible on performance. It stales out fights and forces even more stalemates. We need fights ending quicker.

Urzigurumash

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

I would be happy to see a general decrease in damage done by this set or atleast making the set blocked & canceled by negates.

Allowing Negate to negate all proc sets would be the single best change that could be made, in my opinion.

Urzigurumash

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

Which is definitely not what it should be. Crimison is absolutely terrible on performance. It stales out fights and forces even more stalemates. We need fights ending quicker.

Yeah, it's a nightmare. On the other hand, as I've discussed in other threads, perhaps we should keep in mind the fact that the excessive TTK after the DOT meta and before the Proc meta seemed to largely be caused by offensive stat scaling heals.

Karm1cOne

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Allowing Negate to negate all proc sets would be the single best change that could be made, in my opinion.

You want to get sorcs nerfed? This is how you get sorcs nerfed.

olsborg

IMO All proccsets needs to get nerfed. But if I was to choose one to start it off, yes it would be crimson.

Urzigurumash

Karm1cOne wrote: »

You want to get sorcs nerfed? This is how you get sorcs nerfed.

True, it just seems like it's going to be whack-a-mole trying to balance proc sets - and keep them relevant - unless there's some sort of universal counter - or unless they get stats scaling, as discussed ad nauseam, but I assume this would negatively impact performance.

Pepegrillos

A few questions for those in pts...

Is unfathomable darkness damage still being buffed by hurricane?
Is Ravaging still proc'ing stacks from using hurricane?
Are medium crystal weapon attacks still doing significantly more damage than light and heavy crystal weapon attacks?

SidraWillowsky

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

Artic Blast, Crimison and Eternal Vigor are still very overturned on the pts. We need a substantial change to both of these sets and this skill. Reducing sustain by 5% won't be enough. Blocking is also overturned, especially in the new CP system.

Arctic blast is fine on magwarden, IMO. If they're going to increase the cost of a stam ability with light armor, they need to increase the cost of mag abilities with medium armor.

Don't change arctic blast for PvP when it's fine for PvE

Personally I would rather see a health cap implemented. If that happened this heal wouldn't be so overtuned. However tying a stun to a spamable heal that can crit for 6-8k after battle spirit is not healthy. Nobody needs that level of healing. I agree though a general cost increase if it was high enough would be enough of a nerf.

I guess I'm coming from this as a magwarden, where the class isn't super strong in PvP (at least, it wasn't when I last played and I'm able to annoy people but have a hard time killing them). It seems ridiculously strong for stamwardens though), and I feel like they shouldn't be able to hit it multiple times in quick succession- it's already borderline too expensive to use on a magden unless I'm wearing Necropotence. If it's a widespread problem on magdens too then yeah, it should probably be looked at, but I see it a lot on Crimson/proc set/Malacath stamdens and it's obnoxious as hell. I'd personally prefer a cost increase of, like you said, a health cap. Or just, yanno... balance PvE and PvP separately...

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Allowing Negate to negate all proc sets would be the single best change that could be made, in my opinion.

You want to get sorcs nerfed? This is how you get sorcs nerfed.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

wheem_ESO

Pepegrillos wrote: »

A few questions for those in pts...

Is unfathomable darkness damage still being buffed by hurricane?
Is Ravaging still proc'ing stacks from using hurricane?
Are medium crystal weapon attacks still doing significantly more damage than light and heavy crystal weapon attacks?

The first set of patch notes mention the Ravager set being fixed, but I haven't seen anything about Unfathomable Darkness or Crystal Weapon, and haven't tested them myself.

relentless_turnip

Crimson I used to think was ridiculously strong and on warden, werewolf or necro it's still pretty annoying. It really isn't great when you fight the user 1 v 1 as long as you know to block when it procs. I don't mind fighting it anymore. The vate staff is much more annoying 😂 mainly it's range, it bugginess and it's unpurgeable...ness.

High health is a bigger problem than arctic blast, but I also think the fact it stuns stupid...

Looking forward to a proc free few weeks👍 and players requiring more stats than just health.

Dr_Ganknstein

EV is definitely an over performing set its just not as noticeable as the crimson zergs we are seeing in pvp.

ESO_Nightingale

its been over a year and arctic blast still shouldn't heal, and should be reworked into a damage and offensive stun ability that goes towards an enemy, while trellis still needs a burst buff.

ketsparrowhawk

Arctic Blast will see less use I think, at least in BG's, due to the heavy armor 2% damage reduction per piece while CC immune. Players will have much bigger stam pools than before, so they'll have an easier time breaking CC. Then if they're in 7 heavy, they have an extra 14% damage reduction. Probably want to avoid giving that to your enemies all willy nilly.

Urzigurumash

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Crimson I used to think was ridiculously strong and on warden, werewolf or necro it's still pretty annoying. It really isn't great when you fight the user 1 v 1 as long as you know to block when it procs. I don't mind fighting it anymore..

No heavy stam proc setup is good for 1v1. I see MagSorcs without any noticeable procs still winning every duel against any sort of proc tank. Crimson won't even make a noticeable dent in their shields, really nothing does. Just my experience anyhow.

relentless_turnip

Urzigurumash wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Crimson I used to think was ridiculously strong and on warden, werewolf or necro it's still pretty annoying. It really isn't great when you fight the user 1 v 1 as long as you know to block when it procs. I don't mind fighting it anymore..

No heavy stam proc setup is good for 1v1. I see MagSorcs without any noticeable procs still winning every duel against any sort of proc tank. Crimson won't even make a noticeable dent in their shields, really nothing does. Just my experience anyhow.

I don't agree. A heavy set up does not mean you are in all heavy sets. Just 5 body pieces. What about crimson unleashed and maelstrom combo. Death by gap closer spam. Or even crimson vate zaan combo.

I'm not saying a skilled player can't outplay someone wearing cheese. I am saying it's a pretty broad statement to say no one a in a heavy stam proc set is good in a 1 v 1.

My statement was a reply to the set and skill in question. There are many different sets that someone might opt for that would perform better in a 1 v 1.

Urzigurumash

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I'm not saying a skilled player can't outplay someone wearing cheese. I am saying it's a pretty broad statement to say no one a in a heavy stam proc set is good in a 1 v 1.

True true. I guess my statement was just a reminder that the general PvP meta is rarely the dueling meta. MagDKs and MagPlars have been at the top of the dueling pack for a while, but from what I've seen I might say it's MagSorc right now, and I don't think they're in heavy, Malacath, or proc sets - besides Engine Guardian here and there.

Also related to the flipside of the proc meta: a stats meta enforces class imbalance.

Urzigurumash

Although they might be in Heavy - I see some of these MagSorc duelers around 30k health, which is probably why nobody can make a dent in their shields.

Mayrael

Ekhem try this out:

2h Vateshran
(1 item) Adds 877 Max Stamina (Perfected Only)
(1 item) While Momentum is active, casting Stamina abilities generates a stack of Frenzied Momentum for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon Damage by 38 up to 5 times. Upon reaching max stacks, your next Heavy Attack will consume all stacks and release a violent explosion of energy around the target, dealing 9132 Physical Damage to all enemies within 8 meters.

Explosive rebuke
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage
(5 items) When you successfully block, you place a bomb on the enemy for 10 seconds. When they are hit with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, the bomb detonates, dealing 13150 Flame Damage to all enemies within 8 meters. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.

Curse of Doleymish
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage
(5 items) When using a fully-charged melee Heavy Attack on a taunted monster or any enemy who is stunned, feared, or immobilized, you will deal 12507 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

or insted of Curse of Doleymish you can use:

Twin Sisters Set
(2 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Max Stamina
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) When you block an attack, all enemies within 5 meters of you to bleed for 13380 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.


Now just set all the rest into defense and you're good to go.

Edit:

Oh and ofc this setup allows for Malacath Band of Brutality and even 1 pc monster set Tell me more about skill in PvP.

relentless_turnip

Urzigurumash wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I'm not saying a skilled player can't outplay someone wearing cheese. I am saying it's a pretty broad statement to say no one a in a heavy stam proc set is good in a 1 v 1.

True true. I guess my statement was just a reminder that the general PvP meta is rarely the dueling meta. MagDKs and MagPlars have been at the top of the dueling pack for a while, but from what I've seen I might say it's MagSorc right now, and I don't think they're in heavy, Malacath, or proc sets - besides Engine Guardian here and there.

Also related to the flipside of the proc meta: a stats meta enforces class imbalance.

I totally agree, I was debating with someone in game the other day who said that stamsorc is trash. He had to wear 2 defensive sets for it to be viable in a duel(which I don't think you do). I was saying in cyrodill the opposite is true that you can wear 2 damage sets and be very successful. Open field in a duelling scenario the strengths of this class are totally nullified.

I hope this game is never balanced by duels 👍

Urzigurumash

Doylemish is a terrible choice for 1v1 against a good player, and I might be the all-time leader for landing Doylemish procs in Xbox NA BGs, to be completely honest

Like from back when Valkyn Skoria dealt the preponderance of damage in BGs, so spare me the sanctimony