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Why is my DPS so low with Melee NB?
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Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I think I have lost patience with this thread. It started out as what I thought was a simple PVE DPS question from someone trying to learn the ropes and has morphed into a thread from someone that doesnt like the info he is getting and seems upset with the fact that he cant click one button on repeat and be successful.
ESO has a higher combat skill threshold than just about any MMO to date. It's not for everyone. But you wont convince me that spamming snipe from max range in PVP can or should secure kills against anybody with an ounce of skill. Good luck out there.
DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.
[I hope I am not violating ToS here, [snip]]
@Adam_Chattaway Please be civil! We try too.
A ) The way you are responding and the amount of information you neglect to provide, even after being directly asked for it, do not help either. As in: Gear, Gear Quality, abilities used on frontbar/ backbar, your CP allocation, what Dummy do you use, etc. etc.
B ) The difference between your parses is within a margin of randomness, that can result from just missing few light attacks and abilities. Nothing really noteworthy, except, that both are really low. On a level of a Trash fight with Normal Dungeon Mobs in a disorganised pick up group, actually. So please provide insight on how you got these numbers.
C ) The previous comments clearly stated to stack multiple Damage over Time efects and then to use a spammable inbetween. Additionally it is necessary to use a (standard, run of the mill) Light Attack after each ability. These are things that can be learned really easily in this game. Perfected, not so much. Everybody knows that and so everyone expects you to know as well. If that is not the case, please just say so and keep calm! The community is generally happy to help.
D ) Please be also aware, that ESO is a MMO, that has a relatively high requirement of individual Player Skill and Dedication. However, you can play how you like it. If you decide to play OFF META, Great! I do too. But do not expect META results.
Also, just like in Poker, you do not win against stronger players. But you can get better by loosing the right way against them.
ESO is not WoW. It is not GW2.
[edited for baiting]
I'm not talking about a full rotation thays over the top complex. Poison injection can be spammed at the same speed of snipe right both are basically 1 globalcooldiwn in speed so dots are not faster to apply than spamming snipe right?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561180/feb-15-cyrodiil-test-details
As for pvp maybe this will fix those broken players and tanks.
Champ points as far as in away are not active in battlegrounds?
I was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.0 -
Scardan✭✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.
Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.
People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.
There is nothing wrong with it. Feel free to try out
Adam_Chattaway wrote: »
DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.
Thats why people use spamable AND DoTs. 46k is higher then only 25k or 21k.
Rotations are based like this: buff, DoTs, spamable and semi-spamable, repeat the cycle when DoTs run out.
Edited by Scardan on February 10, 2021 2:51PMLet's be extremely precise in our use of terms.1 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.
Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.
People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.
There is nothing wrong with it. Feel free to try outAdam_Chattaway wrote: »
DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.
Thats why people use spamable AND DoTs. 46k is higher then only 25k or 21k.
Rotations are based like this: buff, DoTs, spamable and semi-spamable, repeat the cycle when DoTs run out.
Pouson injection takes 1 global cd, snipe takes 1 global cd. In 2 seconds I can do 2 snipes or 1 snipe and 1 PI. 2 snopes do more than 1 snipe and one PI both takes 2 seconds to perform but 2 snipes would do 50k inc2 seconds instead if 45k over 11.I was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.1 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.
Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.
People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.
There is nothing wrong with it. Feel free to try outAdam_Chattaway wrote: »
DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.
Thats why people use spamable AND DoTs. 46k is higher then only 25k or 21k.
Rotations are based like this: buff, DoTs, spamable and semi-spamable, repeat the cycle when DoTs run out.
Pouson injection takes 1 global cd, snipe takes 1 global cd. In 2 seconds I can do 2 snipes or 1 snipe and 1 PI. 2 snopes do more than 1 snipe and one PI both takes 2 seconds to perform but 2 snipes would do 50k inc2 seconds instead if 45k over 11.
And in ten seconds
One major brutality buff.
Three different DoTs
Five spammables
And two special spammables.
All accumulating to much more stacked damage. I am talking 80k+ here. If you do it right.
So what is your point?If anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...
Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.3 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.
Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.
People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.
There is nothing wrong with it. Feel free to try outAdam_Chattaway wrote: »
DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.
Thats why people use spamable AND DoTs. 46k is higher then only 25k or 21k.
Rotations are based like this: buff, DoTs, spamable and semi-spamable, repeat the cycle when DoTs run out.
Pouson injection takes 1 global cd, snipe takes 1 global cd. In 2 seconds I can do 2 snipes or 1 snipe and 1 PI. 2 snopes do more than 1 snipe and one PI both takes 2 seconds to perform but 2 snipes would do 50k inc2 seconds instead if 45k over 11.
And in ten seconds
One major brutality buff.
Three different DoTs
Five spammables
And two special spammables.
All accumulating to much more stacked damage. I am talking 80k+ here. If you do it right.
So what is your point?
Does bow effectively have 3 ranged dots? Also how does lethal arrow work better? If you repeat cast it it removed the first application refreshing it so LA spam as base attack just ticks once. Not really a dot more like a bit of extra damage?I was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.
Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.
People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.
There is nothing wrong with it. Feel free to try outAdam_Chattaway wrote: »
DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.
Thats why people use spamable AND DoTs. 46k is higher then only 25k or 21k.
Rotations are based like this: buff, DoTs, spamable and semi-spamable, repeat the cycle when DoTs run out.
Pouson injection takes 1 global cd, snipe takes 1 global cd. In 2 seconds I can do 2 snipes or 1 snipe and 1 PI. 2 snopes do more than 1 snipe and one PI both takes 2 seconds to perform but 2 snipes would do 50k inc2 seconds instead if 45k over 11.
And in ten seconds
One major brutality buff.
Three different DoTs
Five spammables
And two special spammables.
All accumulating to much more stacked damage. I am talking 80k+ here. If you do it right.
So what is your point?
Does bow effectively have 3 ranged dots? Also how does lethal arrow work better? If you repeat cast it it removed the first application refreshing it so LA spam as base attack just ticks once. Not really a dot more like a bit of extra damage?
Actually, yes it does.
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/volley
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/acid-spray
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/poison-injection
I wouldn't use Acid Spray as a dedicated DoT due to its duration, but it does make clearing out groups of enemies an easy task. Also many people who use bows also throw on other abilities outside bow to increase DPS. Like if we look at something like Twin Slashes from Dual Wield we see another DoT we can apply to our target to further boost DPS. We also have Trap Beast which can be placed on the same bar as Bow, and it also boosts the Bow's attacks thanks to the Minor Force buff it applies.
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/twin-slashes
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/trap-beast
There are many ways to go about boosting damage ranging from class kits, guild skills, other weapons, Undaunted, and other skill lines.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.
Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.
People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.
There is nothing wrong with it. Feel free to try outAdam_Chattaway wrote: »
DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.
Thats why people use spamable AND DoTs. 46k is higher then only 25k or 21k.
Rotations are based like this: buff, DoTs, spamable and semi-spamable, repeat the cycle when DoTs run out.
Pouson injection takes 1 global cd, snipe takes 1 global cd. In 2 seconds I can do 2 snipes or 1 snipe and 1 PI. 2 snopes do more than 1 snipe and one PI both takes 2 seconds to perform but 2 snipes would do 50k inc2 seconds instead if 45k over 11.
The Answer is no. Snipe is a full 1 second cast. You cannot weave snipe with a light attack on the global cooldown, it will be slower. Its not a lot slower, but its slower. Focused Aim is generally the preferred PVE morph because it can be a source of Minor Breach for you and your group (although most groups have better was to get it). A lot of people use Lethal Arrow in PVP, because of the minor defile, which is fairly useless in PVE because bosses dont really heal themselves.
Focused Aim can be spammed repetitively and the minor breach will simply reapply, but really it doesnt need to be cast more than once every 10 seconds if just looking at the debuff. If it is the spam in your rotation, it will be cast more often than that, but I will say it again. If all you do is spam either of these morphs and dont work other dots, buffs or debuffs into your rotation, your DPS is going to be awful. If all you do is spam this skill on enemies in PVP, you are not going to kill anyone with a heartbeat and their hands on the keyboard.
PVE rotations are capable of sustaining over 100k DPS for minutes at a time, but you area going to use just about every skill slot you have in a complicated rotation, while light attack weaving every skill, if you want to be in that neighborhood.
PVP burst combos need multiple sources of both burst damage and sustained pressure, coupled with a hard CC, if you want a shot at killing anybody with an ounce of skill. If you stand there spamming snipe, a good player is going to roll dodge towards you and end your day.
But hey, play how you want. This forum will bend over backwards to help you if you come in with an open mind.
Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on February 10, 2021 5:02PM4 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a stam blade you can use arrow barrage, poison injection and dark shade. That is three DoTs.
If you use dualwield you had two more options.
As Bow Bow you have only the option of Power extraction for major brutality buff or you use a weapon power potion.
With a decent light attack weaving you can get 3 to 5 Focused Aims and Ultimates or Relentlesss Focus Procs on target before having to reapply any DoT. All in ten seconds. If you are decent.If anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...
Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.0 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.
Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.
People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.
There is nothing wrong with it. Feel free to try outAdam_Chattaway wrote: »
DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.
Thats why people use spamable AND DoTs. 46k is higher then only 25k or 21k.
Rotations are based like this: buff, DoTs, spamable and semi-spamable, repeat the cycle when DoTs run out.
Pouson injection takes 1 global cd, snipe takes 1 global cd. In 2 seconds I can do 2 snipes or 1 snipe and 1 PI. 2 snopes do more than 1 snipe and one PI both takes 2 seconds to perform but 2 snipes would do 50k inc2 seconds instead if 45k over 11.
The Answer is no. Snipe is a full 1 second cast. You cannot weave snipe with a light attack on the global cooldown, it will be slower. Its not a lot slower, but its slower. Focused Aim is generally the preferred PVE morph because it can be a source of Minor Breach for you and your group (although most groups have better was to get it). A lot of people use Lethal Arrow in PVP, because of the minor defile, which is fairly useless in PVE because bosses dont really heal themselves.
Focused Aim can be spammed repetitively and the minor breach will simply reapply, but really it doesnt need to be cast more than once every 10 seconds if just looking at the debuff. If it is the spam in your rotation, it will be cast more often than that, but I will say it again. If all you do is spam either of these morphs and dont work other dots, buffs or debuffs into your rotation, your DPS is going to be awful. If all you do is spam this skill on enemies in PVP, you are not going to kill anyone with a heartbeat and their hands on the keyboard.
PVE rotations are capable of sustaining over 100k DPS for minutes at a time, but you area going to use just about every skill slot you have in a complicated rotation, while light attack weaving every skill, if you want to be in that neighborhood.
PVP burst combos need multiple sources of both burst damage and sustained pressure, coupled with a hard CC, if you want a shot at killing anybody with an ounce of skill. If you stand there spamming snipe, a good player is going to roll dodge towards you and end your day.
But hey, play how you want. This forum will bend over backwards to help you if you come in with an open mind.
Yes! Bears are known to be very helpful creatures. 😁If anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...
Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.
Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.
People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.
There is nothing wrong with it. Feel free to try outAdam_Chattaway wrote: »
DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.
Thats why people use spamable AND DoTs. 46k is higher then only 25k or 21k.
Rotations are based like this: buff, DoTs, spamable and semi-spamable, repeat the cycle when DoTs run out.
Pouson injection takes 1 global cd, snipe takes 1 global cd. In 2 seconds I can do 2 snipes or 1 snipe and 1 PI. 2 snopes do more than 1 snipe and one PI both takes 2 seconds to perform but 2 snipes would do 50k inc2 seconds instead if 45k over 11.
The Answer is no. Snipe is a full 1 second cast. You cannot weave snipe with a light attack on the global cooldown, it will be slower. Its not a lot slower, but its slower. Focused Aim is generally the preferred PVE morph because it can be a source of Minor Breach for you and your group (although most groups have better was to get it). A lot of people use Lethal Arrow in PVP, because of the minor defile, which is fairly useless in PVE because bosses dont really heal themselves.
Focused Aim can be spammed repetitively and the minor breach will simply reapply, but really it doesnt need to be cast more than once every 10 seconds if just looking at the debuff. If it is the spam in your rotation, it will be cast more often than that, but I will say it again. If all you do is spam either of these morphs and dont work other dots, buffs or debuffs into your rotation, your DPS is going to be awful. If all you do is spam this skill on enemies in PVP, you are not going to kill anyone with a heartbeat and their hands on the keyboard.
PVE rotations are capable of sustaining over 100k DPS for minutes at a time, but you area going to use just about every skill slot you have in a complicated rotation, while light attack weaving every skill, if you want to be in that neighborhood.
PVP burst combos need multiple sources of both burst damage and sustained pressure, coupled with a hard CC, if you want a shot at killing anybody with an ounce of skill. If you stand there spamming snipe, a good player is going to roll dodge towards you and end your day.
But hey, play how you want. This forum will bend over backwards to help you if you come in with an open mind.
Yes! Bears are known to be very helpful creatures. 😁
And very cuddly when we are full.0 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.Edited by MudcrabAttack on February 10, 2021 6:57PM0 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
Majpor problem i have with melee in pvp is enemys are always moving in and out of range so half of the time i try to press an attack or weave it misses. it's infuriating. you have to be so close and perfectly facing them for it to go off and hit. in time it takes me to do 2 attacks and weave in dead and deal no damage. trying to use heavy attack to regen stamina gets me killed.I was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on February 10, 2021 7:24PM0 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
I was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reroll as stamsorc, healthden, or stamcro. Problem solved.Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr0 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.Edited by Adam_Chattaway on February 12, 2021 10:31AMI was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.0 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
Oh boy, where do I even start? What you did has no sense at all.
First of all, you need to kill the dummy to get an accurate DPS measure, that's what a dummy parse is, you have to do your full rotation. I could make a video of a dummy under 25% and me spamming Killer's Blade doing 60k crits almost every hit. This would mean nothing and won't be indicative of my skill (as a player) or how the character abilities work.
Secondly, you're comparing a DoT to a direct damage skill. Any DoTs and statuses you apply will still run when you stop doing direct damage, and your DPS will be lower as a result because it took longer for the damage to be dealt.
And finally, measuring damage on a trial dummy if you intend to play PvP is pointless. The dummy has 18k resists and all kinds of debuffs applied to it, some players in Cyrodiil run with 40k+ resists.3 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
Oh boy, where do I even start? What you did has no sense at all.
First of all, you need to kill the dummy to get an accurate DPS measure, that's what a dummy parse is, you have to do your full rotation. I could make a video of a dummy under 25% and me spamming Killer's Blade doing 60k crits almost every hit. This would mean nothing and won't be indicative of my skill (as a player) or how the character abilities work.
Secondly, you're comparing a DoT to a direct damage skill. Any DoTs and statuses you apply will still run when you stop doing direct damage, and your DPS will be lower as a result because it took longer for the damage to be dealt.
And finally, measuring damage on a trial dummy if you intend to play PvP is pointless. The dummy has 18k resists and all kinds of debuffs applied to it, some players in Cyrodiil run with 40k+ resists.
[snip]
Everyone for 1 does dps tests on this dummy. as far as im aware i've not seen a PVP dummy?
Im aware the dps drops when i stop attacking with a DT that's why i show the black box with the DPS parse in showing you the DPS that is not the same as the dropped off dps in chat.
I don;t need to KILL a dummy to get the dps from a 30 second, 1 min or 2 min rotation. NO youtuber or guide i've seen has killed the dummy outright in a short dps test.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on February 12, 2021 1:46PMI was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.0 -
FangOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
Oh boy, where do I even start? What you did has no sense at all.
First of all, you need to kill the dummy to get an accurate DPS measure, that's what a dummy parse is, you have to do your full rotation. I could make a video of a dummy under 25% and me spamming Killer's Blade doing 60k crits almost every hit. This would mean nothing and won't be indicative of my skill (as a player) or how the character abilities work.
Secondly, you're comparing a DoT to a direct damage skill. Any DoTs and statuses you apply will still run when you stop doing direct damage, and your DPS will be lower as a result because it took longer for the damage to be dealt.
And finally, measuring damage on a trial dummy if you intend to play PvP is pointless. The dummy has 18k resists and all kinds of debuffs applied to it, some players in Cyrodiil run with 40k+ resists.
Are you f trolling me?
Everyone for 1 does dps tests on this dummy. as far as im aware i've not seen a PVP dummy?
Im aware the dps drops when i stop attacking with a DT that's why i show the black box with the DPS parse in showing you the DPS that is not the same as the dropped off dps in chat.
I don;t need to KILL a dummy to get the dps from a 30 second, 1 min or 2 min rotation. NO youtuber or guide i've seen has killed the dummy outright in a short dps test.
I'm really starting to think you're taking the P of me now...
What they're saying is that testing for PVP isn't done in a PVE environment. The dummies are all PVE oriented.
The standard to testing dps is a full on encounter with a dummy. From 100% HP to 0%. I can't really argue about a "short dps test." I'm guessing you're talking about burst dps. In that case I guess you're right but no encounter in the game is that short, unless you're killing overland mobs.
On the topic at hand, if you wanna increase you're dps with snipe I'd just wait until next patch. You'll be able to properly weave Snipe once they change its cast to .8 seconds.
The only way you're going to be increasing your dps is if you throw in some DOTs I'm afraid. You can only do so much with one skill.
In pvp being a sniping ganker is more about picking the right targets to hit. Also using shadow image to teleport away when an enemy is on top of you. Always keep in mind that detect pots exist and if you get caught with one you're pretty much done for. If you build with for all offense don't expect to be able to brawl.1 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
Oh boy, where do I even start? What you did has no sense at all.
First of all, you need to kill the dummy to get an accurate DPS measure, that's what a dummy parse is, you have to do your full rotation. I could make a video of a dummy under 25% and me spamming Killer's Blade doing 60k crits almost every hit. This would mean nothing and won't be indicative of my skill (as a player) or how the character abilities work.
Secondly, you're comparing a DoT to a direct damage skill. Any DoTs and statuses you apply will still run when you stop doing direct damage, and your DPS will be lower as a result because it took longer for the damage to be dealt.
And finally, measuring damage on a trial dummy if you intend to play PvP is pointless. The dummy has 18k resists and all kinds of debuffs applied to it, some players in Cyrodiil run with 40k+ resists.
Are you f trolling me?
Everyone for 1 does dps tests on this dummy. as far as im aware i've not seen a PVP dummy?
Im aware the dps drops when i stop attacking with a DT that's why i show the black box with the DPS parse in showing you the DPS that is not the same as the dropped off dps in chat.
I don;t need to KILL a dummy to get the dps from a 30 second, 1 min or 2 min rotation. NO youtuber or guide i've seen has killed the dummy outright in a short dps test.
I'm really starting to think you're taking the P of me now...
Your DPS doesn't matter that much in PvP. What matters is DoT stacking and burst damage or a combination of both. You either kill someone really fast or keep constant pressure and drain their resources in a long fight, so they can't heal and do damage.
You absolutely need to kill the dummy to get your DPS. There's no such thing as a short DPS test because the damage is different before the execute threshold and after it. Look at this graph, red line is an actual DPS over the course of the parse, yellow line is basically burst damage in 7s brackets. Notice the spike? That's execute range, where the highest damage output happens. If you hit a dummy for 30 seconds, it get you nowhere near the actual numbers.
Your end CMX result should look like this. You get the target from 100% to 0% HP. Virtually EVERY build guide on YT ends up with a full parse.
3 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
Oh boy, where do I even start? What you did has no sense at all.
First of all, you need to kill the dummy to get an accurate DPS measure, that's what a dummy parse is, you have to do your full rotation. I could make a video of a dummy under 25% and me spamming Killer's Blade doing 60k crits almost every hit. This would mean nothing and won't be indicative of my skill (as a player) or how the character abilities work.
Secondly, you're comparing a DoT to a direct damage skill. Any DoTs and statuses you apply will still run when you stop doing direct damage, and your DPS will be lower as a result because it took longer for the damage to be dealt.
And finally, measuring damage on a trial dummy if you intend to play PvP is pointless. The dummy has 18k resists and all kinds of debuffs applied to it, some players in Cyrodiil run with 40k+ resists.
Are you f trolling me?
Everyone for 1 does dps tests on this dummy. as far as im aware i've not seen a PVP dummy?
Im aware the dps drops when i stop attacking with a DT that's why i show the black box with the DPS parse in showing you the DPS that is not the same as the dropped off dps in chat.
I don;t need to KILL a dummy to get the dps from a 30 second, 1 min or 2 min rotation. NO youtuber or guide i've seen has killed the dummy outright in a short dps test.
I'm really starting to think you're taking the P of me now...
Your DPS doesn't matter that much in PvP. What matters is DoT stacking and burst damage or a combination of both. You either kill someone really fast or keep constant pressure and drain their resources in a long fight, so they can't heal and do damage.
You absolutely need to kill the dummy to get your DPS. There's no such thing as a short DPS test because the damage is different before the execute threshold and after it. Look at this graph, red line is an actual DPS over the course of the parse, yellow line is basically burst damage in 7s brackets. Notice the spike? That's execute range, where the highest damage output happens. If you hit a dummy for 30 seconds, it get you nowhere near the actual numbers.
Your end CMX result should look like this. You get the target from 100% to 0% HP. Virtually EVERY build guide on YT ends up with a full parse.
I don't have a execute as BOW only PI and when i tested that dmg on a 20% health dummy is barely did anything more, it's a pathetic skill and i hear most people don't bother with it anyone since it was nerfed down by hundreds of % so as a bow bow what other execute would i do that affects my damage?I was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.0 -
nukk3r✭✭✭✭✭
✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
Oh boy, where do I even start? What you did has no sense at all.
First of all, you need to kill the dummy to get an accurate DPS measure, that's what a dummy parse is, you have to do your full rotation. I could make a video of a dummy under 25% and me spamming Killer's Blade doing 60k crits almost every hit. This would mean nothing and won't be indicative of my skill (as a player) or how the character abilities work.
Secondly, you're comparing a DoT to a direct damage skill. Any DoTs and statuses you apply will still run when you stop doing direct damage, and your DPS will be lower as a result because it took longer for the damage to be dealt.
And finally, measuring damage on a trial dummy if you intend to play PvP is pointless. The dummy has 18k resists and all kinds of debuffs applied to it, some players in Cyrodiil run with 40k+ resists.
Are you f trolling me?
Everyone for 1 does dps tests on this dummy. as far as im aware i've not seen a PVP dummy?
Im aware the dps drops when i stop attacking with a DT that's why i show the black box with the DPS parse in showing you the DPS that is not the same as the dropped off dps in chat.
I don;t need to KILL a dummy to get the dps from a 30 second, 1 min or 2 min rotation. NO youtuber or guide i've seen has killed the dummy outright in a short dps test.
I'm really starting to think you're taking the P of me now...
Your DPS doesn't matter that much in PvP. What matters is DoT stacking and burst damage or a combination of both. You either kill someone really fast or keep constant pressure and drain their resources in a long fight, so they can't heal and do damage.
You absolutely need to kill the dummy to get your DPS. There's no such thing as a short DPS test because the damage is different before the execute threshold and after it. Look at this graph, red line is an actual DPS over the course of the parse, yellow line is basically burst damage in 7s brackets. Notice the spike? That's execute range, where the highest damage output happens. If you hit a dummy for 30 seconds, it get you nowhere near the actual numbers.
Your end CMX result should look like this. You get the target from 100% to 0% HP. Virtually EVERY build guide on YT ends up with a full parse.
I don't have a execute as BOW only PI and when i tested that dmg on a 20% health dummy is barely did anything more, it's a pathetic skill and i hear most people don't bother with it anyone since it was nerfed down by hundreds of % so as a bow bow what other execute would i do that affects my damage?
As a stamblade you should use only Killer's Blade as an execute.1 -
TheImperfect✭✭✭✭✭
✭I must admit to doing the same thing on the trial dummies. I just take about 15 percent off and don't use my execute to get a rough average of my dps because killing the trial dummy takes a lot of time and energy. It might not give the most accurate results but I just thought it might show if I make changes what works better or worse.0 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
Oh boy, where do I even start? What you did has no sense at all.
First of all, you need to kill the dummy to get an accurate DPS measure, that's what a dummy parse is, you have to do your full rotation. I could make a video of a dummy under 25% and me spamming Killer's Blade doing 60k crits almost every hit. This would mean nothing and won't be indicative of my skill (as a player) or how the character abilities work.
Secondly, you're comparing a DoT to a direct damage skill. Any DoTs and statuses you apply will still run when you stop doing direct damage, and your DPS will be lower as a result because it took longer for the damage to be dealt.
And finally, measuring damage on a trial dummy if you intend to play PvP is pointless. The dummy has 18k resists and all kinds of debuffs applied to it, some players in Cyrodiil run with 40k+ resists.
Are you f trolling me?
Everyone for 1 does dps tests on this dummy. as far as im aware i've not seen a PVP dummy?
Im aware the dps drops when i stop attacking with a DT that's why i show the black box with the DPS parse in showing you the DPS that is not the same as the dropped off dps in chat.
I don;t need to KILL a dummy to get the dps from a 30 second, 1 min or 2 min rotation. NO youtuber or guide i've seen has killed the dummy outright in a short dps test.
I'm really starting to think you're taking the P of me now...
Your DPS doesn't matter that much in PvP. What matters is DoT stacking and burst damage or a combination of both. You either kill someone really fast or keep constant pressure and drain their resources in a long fight, so they can't heal and do damage.
You absolutely need to kill the dummy to get your DPS. There's no such thing as a short DPS test because the damage is different before the execute threshold and after it. Look at this graph, red line is an actual DPS over the course of the parse, yellow line is basically burst damage in 7s brackets. Notice the spike? That's execute range, where the highest damage output happens. If you hit a dummy for 30 seconds, it get you nowhere near the actual numbers.
Your end CMX result should look like this. You get the target from 100% to 0% HP. Virtually EVERY build guide on YT ends up with a full parse.
I don't have a execute as BOW only PI and when i tested that dmg on a 20% health dummy is barely did anything more, it's a pathetic skill and i hear most people don't bother with it anyone since it was nerfed down by hundreds of % so as a bow bow what other execute would i do that affects my damage?
As a stamblade you should use only Killer's Blade as an execute.
not that good from range though as bow bow, and running into melee kills the whole i wanna play bow vibe...I was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.0 -
W0lf_z13✭✭✭✭✭
✭the trial dummy is not a good representation of your "DPS" when it comes to pvp... for one... the trial dummy gives you EVERY buff in the game ... you will not see that in cyrodiil .... also as others have said .... the dummy only has 18k resist... where you will find most people in cyro running 25k upwards to 35k resist. Also as stated previously a direct damage ability will always hit harder than a damage over time ability, BUT what the dot ability DOES give you is the ability to apply pressure to an opponent, by placing a few dots on a player and continuing with a spammable as well as light attacks and such they have to worry about not only the damage from the spammable but the constant damage from the damage over time . The Trial dummy is used as a dps check for mainly PvE stuff since DPS mainly matters only in PvE .Edited by W0lf_z13 on February 12, 2021 3:18PMBreton Nightblade ~ Fang of the Wolf ~ (50) | Altmer Dragonknight ~ Ðårk Ŵølf ~ (50) | Altmer Necro ~ Ðeåth Ŵølf ~ (50)
☣☣☣ | Alliance ~Daggerfall Covenant~ | Server ~NA PC~ | CP's ~2156~ | ☣☣☣2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
You simply arent comparing apples to apples.
Look at your first parse. 24 light attacks, 26 snipes, 33 seconds. Even this is not an ideal parse. You missed two light attacks, and your pace is slow. I dont expect .95 LA/seconds when weaving a 1 second spam, but you can certainly be above .8. I believe about .85 is ideal one a one second channel, so in 33 seconds you should have had at least one or two more snipes and three or 4 more LAs. Not a huge issue, but something to consider.
Look at your second parse, oh man, where to start. First, you have to kill a target to have meaningful DPS data. You added like 8 seconds to your parse because you cast PI at the end, run out of stamina and just stand there while it runs out. Your fight doesnt end until all your damage stops. So if you just stop like that, your parse keeps going and drags the DPS number down with each second.
You casted 23 skills at least on this. 17 spams, 3 PIs and 3 bow procs, yet only 15 light attacks, meaning you missed at least 8. The fight parse was again about 33 seconds, so your pace was likely worse, and your weave was definitely worse. Now of course, these pace is off a bit because of the first point, your just stopped mid parse so the fight is artificially long. A good stamblade will cast about 6 bow procs in a 33 second parse.
Your issue is that of skill if I am being honest. I dont mean that to criticize, this game takes a lot of practice. You seem to be pretty capable of managing a single skill spam with a weave that is fairly consistent (even this need some work). But when you start adding in merciless and PI, your weave and pace both suffer. To be honest this is not uncommon.
A good player might do better DPS managing 5 skills than 10. But a great player will do better managing all 10, assuming their rotation doesn't suffer from handling the extra abilities (hence, what makes them great).
Also, I would not use a trial dummy if PVP is your goal. Too many moving parts. You can absolutely use a smaller dummy with no buffs, just know that it will really only be reflective of a PVP enemy with 18.2k of resist that is just standing there. There are meaningful tests to do. You can do a very scripted burst combo (not talking about macros, just something that is planned), and see the total damage (not DPS). You can then make adjustments to that combo and reasonable compare the results.
DPS doesnt mean much in PVP. If you just put sustained PVE DPS of 30k on a guy in PVP, you wont kill anyone. Trial dummies dont heal, block, roll or do anything to mitigate. It is trivial to shake off a snipe spam in PVP. You need to figure out how to burst and CC. Snipe can certainly be part of that, but it cant be all of it.
We can go back and forth for hours, but I assure you. Adding DOTs into your PVE DPS rotation will increase you total DPS assuming you it is done correctly. People can pull 100k+ DPS in this game, but that cant do it with one skill (Templar jabs are admittedly kinda close). That should be all the proof you need.
Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on February 12, 2021 6:20PM4 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
You simply arent comparing apples to apples.
Look at your first parse. 24 light attacks, 26 snipes, 33 seconds. Even this is not an ideal parse. You missed two light attacks, and your pace is slow. I dont expect .95 LA/seconds when weaving a 1 second spam, but you can certainly be above .8. I believe about .85 is ideal one a one second channel, so in 33 seconds you should have had at least one or two more snipes and three or 4 more LAs. Not a huge issue, but something to consider.
Look at your second parse, oh man, where to start. First, you have to kill a target to have meaningful DPS data. You added like 8 seconds to your parse because you cast PI at the end, run out of stamina and just stand there while it runs out. Your fight doesnt end until all your damage stops. So if you just stop like that, your parse keeps going and drags the DPS number down with each second.
You casted 23 skills at least on this. 17 spams, 3 PIs and 3 bow procs, yet only 15 light attacks, meaning you missed at least 8. The fight parse was again about 33 seconds, so your pace was likely worse, and your weave was definitely worse. Now of course, these pace is off a bit because of the first point, your just stopped mid parse so the fight is artificially long.
Your issue is that of skill if I am being honest. I dont mean that to criticize, this game takes a lot of practice. You seem to be pretty capable of managing a single skill spam with a weave that is fairly consistent (even this need some work). But when you start adding in merciless and PI, your weave and pace both suffer. To be honest this is not uncommon.
A good player might do better DPS managing 5 skills than 10. But a great player will do better managing all 10, assuming their rotation doesn't suffer from handling the extra abilities (hence, what makes them great).
Also, I would not use a trial dummy if PVP is your goal. Too many moving parts. You can absolutely use a smaller dummy with no buffs, just know that it will really only be reflective of a PVP enemy with 18.2k of resist that is just standing there. There are meaningful tests to do. You can do a very scripted burst combo (not talking about macros, just something that is planned), and see the total damage (not DPS). You can then make adjustments to that combo and reasonable compare the results.
DPS doesnt mean much in PVP. If you just put sustained PVE DPS of 30k on a guy in PVP, you wont kill anyone. Trial dummies dont heal, block, roll or do anything to mitigate. It is trivial to shake off a snipe spam in PVP. You need to figure out how to burst and CC. Snipe can certainly be part of that, but it cant be all of it.
We can go back and forth for hours, but I assure you. Adding DOTs into your PVE DPS rotation will increase you total DPS assuming you it is done correctly. People can pull 100k+ DPS in this game, but that cant do it with one skill (Templar jabs are admittedly kinda close). That should be all the proof you need.
The combat as a whole just feels awful in this game. Light weaving was never supposed to be a thing it was broken and they could not fix it so now it's the norm a pain in the arse to do and if missing a fe LA's is difference between 30k and 100k dps then that's just crappy game imo. This should be ESO not the most elite mmo ever created in the history of mankind. the highest tier of WOW is not this *** tbh. weapon swapping urgh dont even get me started how bad this feels and the snipe spam for some reason when i use other skills locks up and doesnt cast so the whole flow is ended. NO mmo should have to have this insane a bull s and complex and hardcore and elite combat system just to do better than average dps, it's quite honestly a f joke. I've played this game on and off since day 1, i have the CE's behind me, posters on my wall but the combat is tragic.I was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
You simply arent comparing apples to apples.
Look at your first parse. 24 light attacks, 26 snipes, 33 seconds. Even this is not an ideal parse. You missed two light attacks, and your pace is slow. I dont expect .95 LA/seconds when weaving a 1 second spam, but you can certainly be above .8. I believe about .85 is ideal one a one second channel, so in 33 seconds you should have had at least one or two more snipes and three or 4 more LAs. Not a huge issue, but something to consider.
Look at your second parse, oh man, where to start. First, you have to kill a target to have meaningful DPS data. You added like 8 seconds to your parse because you cast PI at the end, run out of stamina and just stand there while it runs out. Your fight doesnt end until all your damage stops. So if you just stop like that, your parse keeps going and drags the DPS number down with each second.
You casted 23 skills at least on this. 17 spams, 3 PIs and 3 bow procs, yet only 15 light attacks, meaning you missed at least 8. The fight parse was again about 33 seconds, so your pace was likely worse, and your weave was definitely worse. Now of course, these pace is off a bit because of the first point, your just stopped mid parse so the fight is artificially long.
Your issue is that of skill if I am being honest. I dont mean that to criticize, this game takes a lot of practice. You seem to be pretty capable of managing a single skill spam with a weave that is fairly consistent (even this need some work). But when you start adding in merciless and PI, your weave and pace both suffer. To be honest this is not uncommon.
A good player might do better DPS managing 5 skills than 10. But a great player will do better managing all 10, assuming their rotation doesn't suffer from handling the extra abilities (hence, what makes them great).
Also, I would not use a trial dummy if PVP is your goal. Too many moving parts. You can absolutely use a smaller dummy with no buffs, just know that it will really only be reflective of a PVP enemy with 18.2k of resist that is just standing there. There are meaningful tests to do. You can do a very scripted burst combo (not talking about macros, just something that is planned), and see the total damage (not DPS). You can then make adjustments to that combo and reasonable compare the results.
DPS doesnt mean much in PVP. If you just put sustained PVE DPS of 30k on a guy in PVP, you wont kill anyone. Trial dummies dont heal, block, roll or do anything to mitigate. It is trivial to shake off a snipe spam in PVP. You need to figure out how to burst and CC. Snipe can certainly be part of that, but it cant be all of it.
We can go back and forth for hours, but I assure you. Adding DOTs into your PVE DPS rotation will increase you total DPS assuming you it is done correctly. People can pull 100k+ DPS in this game, but that cant do it with one skill (Templar jabs are admittedly kinda close). That should be all the proof you need.
The combat as a whole just feels awful in this game. Light weaving was never supposed to be a thing it was broken and they could not fix it so now it's the norm a pain in the arse to do and if missing a fe LA's is difference between 30k and 100k dps then that's just crappy game imo. This should be ESO not the most elite mmo ever created in the history of mankind. the highest tier of WOW is not this *** tbh. weapon swapping urgh dont even get me started how bad this feels and the snipe spam for some reason when i use other skills locks up and doesnt cast so the whole flow is ended. NO mmo should have to have this insane a bull s and complex and hardcore and elite combat system just to do better than average dps, it's quite honestly a f joke. I've played this game on and off since day 1, i have the CE's behind me, posters on my wall but the combat is tragic.
Combat in this game is brilliant. Its the best of any MMO or non shooter that I have ever played, but there is not secret that the skill threshold is high and the learning curve is steep if you want to go beyond basic quests. It is certainly not everyone's cup of tea.
LAs are NOT the difference between 30 and 100k. A proper rotation is the difference, LAs are part of that, but not the whole part. They usually amount to about 15% of DPS. Most High end rotations require that you manage 7-10 skills at a time, and no Secret, nightblade is the most difficult of them all because relentless focus is difficult to manage.
If you don't like it, WOW is still running as far as I know. If you want to get better, again, we would love to help but to be honest, your attitude towards the game and the people on this forum that are trying to help you makes that rather difficult...Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on February 12, 2021 7:17PM5 -
Adam_Chattaway✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Adam_Chattaway wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »MudcrabAttack wrote: »When you weave surprise attack and light attack, are you holding a bow? It tends to be a bit slower than weaving with dual wield. Gaps in weaving melee and generic DOT skills can be worse if your muscle memory has been adjusted to slowly weaving snipe
And dual wield currently adds 4,000 dps axe bleeds and 5% crit from a dagger, and higher weapon damage with nirnhorned mainhand, vs bow adding just 5% crit.
That is another thing to consider in the "tests" you were running. If you cast snipe from your bow bar, its going to hit for an amount based on that bars damage/stats. If you cast a PI from your back bow bar, but quickly swap back to your front bar, you are going to get the modifiers from that bar for most of the ticks of your DOT, which if running DW will likely mean more crit and weapon damage. Usually you have better stats on your front bar than your back bar.
Ok so some parses for you i just did
ST
Snipe and Light attack weaving only = 16.6k dps
Snipe, Light attack weaving and Relentless Focus procs = 15.8k dps
AOE
Acid spray + Light attack weaving = 15.1k DPS
Acid spray + Light attack weaving + Arrow Barrage + Caltrops = 14.1k dps
No matter how complex i make something, how many extra dots, aoe skills i end up with less damage than just spamming snipe for st or acid arrow for aoe... I could make a video maybe i will.
Hmm... This is something I'm struggling with but with trying to push over 60K on my magDK on a trial dummy. What I'm figuring is it's gear + speed as those two things seriously effect performance. I have the gear to push over 60k but I don't have the performance to do so. I'm missing light attacks due to input or server issues, not perfectly keeping my buffs up, and sometimes pausing at inopportune times which seriously do effect the numbers.
Making a video would be very helpful in seeing how you're getting those numbers. I've also begun to note in my tests the critical chance playing a huge part in numbers to. Some runs are just better than others.
Here is a video with just Snipe Spam and Light attacks and then the second with poison injection and the relentless procs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x17tqpro&ab_channel=Gisborne
No matter what i do, what build i go what skills i use i get less damage than spamming. seriously someone add me on discord, watch me stream and tell me what the f is going on because i love ESO but this combat is making me want to quit the game for good. this combat system is such imbalanced ***, so elitist, so meta so f broken it feels horrible. MMO combat should feel fun to do but this is just pure stress, in 20 years of playing mmos ive never had to deal with such cancer before with a skill system.
You simply arent comparing apples to apples.
Look at your first parse. 24 light attacks, 26 snipes, 33 seconds. Even this is not an ideal parse. You missed two light attacks, and your pace is slow. I dont expect .95 LA/seconds when weaving a 1 second spam, but you can certainly be above .8. I believe about .85 is ideal one a one second channel, so in 33 seconds you should have had at least one or two more snipes and three or 4 more LAs. Not a huge issue, but something to consider.
Look at your second parse, oh man, where to start. First, you have to kill a target to have meaningful DPS data. You added like 8 seconds to your parse because you cast PI at the end, run out of stamina and just stand there while it runs out. Your fight doesnt end until all your damage stops. So if you just stop like that, your parse keeps going and drags the DPS number down with each second.
You casted 23 skills at least on this. 17 spams, 3 PIs and 3 bow procs, yet only 15 light attacks, meaning you missed at least 8. The fight parse was again about 33 seconds, so your pace was likely worse, and your weave was definitely worse. Now of course, these pace is off a bit because of the first point, your just stopped mid parse so the fight is artificially long.
Your issue is that of skill if I am being honest. I dont mean that to criticize, this game takes a lot of practice. You seem to be pretty capable of managing a single skill spam with a weave that is fairly consistent (even this need some work). But when you start adding in merciless and PI, your weave and pace both suffer. To be honest this is not uncommon.
A good player might do better DPS managing 5 skills than 10. But a great player will do better managing all 10, assuming their rotation doesn't suffer from handling the extra abilities (hence, what makes them great).
Also, I would not use a trial dummy if PVP is your goal. Too many moving parts. You can absolutely use a smaller dummy with no buffs, just know that it will really only be reflective of a PVP enemy with 18.2k of resist that is just standing there. There are meaningful tests to do. You can do a very scripted burst combo (not talking about macros, just something that is planned), and see the total damage (not DPS). You can then make adjustments to that combo and reasonable compare the results.
DPS doesnt mean much in PVP. If you just put sustained PVE DPS of 30k on a guy in PVP, you wont kill anyone. Trial dummies dont heal, block, roll or do anything to mitigate. It is trivial to shake off a snipe spam in PVP. You need to figure out how to burst and CC. Snipe can certainly be part of that, but it cant be all of it.
We can go back and forth for hours, but I assure you. Adding DOTs into your PVE DPS rotation will increase you total DPS assuming you it is done correctly. People can pull 100k+ DPS in this game, but that cant do it with one skill (Templar jabs are admittedly kinda close). That should be all the proof you need.
The combat as a whole just feels awful in this game. Light weaving was never supposed to be a thing it was broken and they could not fix it so now it's the norm a pain in the arse to do and if missing a fe LA's is difference between 30k and 100k dps then that's just crappy game imo. This should be ESO not the most elite mmo ever created in the history of mankind. the highest tier of WOW is not this *** tbh. weapon swapping urgh dont even get me started how bad this feels and the snipe spam for some reason when i use other skills locks up and doesnt cast so the whole flow is ended. NO mmo should have to have this insane a bull s and complex and hardcore and elite combat system just to do better than average dps, it's quite honestly a f joke. I've played this game on and off since day 1, i have the CE's behind me, posters on my wall but the combat is tragic.
Combat in this game is brilliant. Its the best of any MMO or non shooter that I have ever played, but there is not secret that the skill threshold is high and the learning curve is steep if you want to go beyond basic quests. It is certainly not everyone's cup of tea.
LAs are NOT the difference between 30 and 100k. A proper rotation is the difference, LAs are part of that, but not the whole part. They usually amount to about 15% of DPS. Most High end rotations require that you manage 7-10 skills at a time, and no Secret, nightblade is the most difficult of them all because relentless focus is difficult to manage.
If you don't like it, WOW is still running as far as I know. If you want to get better, again, we would love to help but to be honest, your attitude towards the game and the people on this forum that are trying to help you makes that rather difficult...
Don't talk about my attitude, yes it's *** because i'm p off. i'm literally raging the f out at this games unnecessary ridiculous skill ceiling, rotations, weapon swapping that is OTT and all the rest. Why did the devs make sure a OTT skill ceiling for the game?
Let's see i queued 40 min for VET dun today to get kicked on joining because i have 17k health as dps.
Next group, VET dun not sure of name long long long dungeon was in there nearly an hour+ anyway tank tries to vote kick me because i wouldnt give him a gear drop he wanted for his collection....
Next group... Kicked because i was using a BOW on start...
The community in game lately is toxic as f. In my 20 years of playing MMOS i've never once vote kicked someone from a group even if they were ***... but in ESO they vote kick like it's going out of fashion if you're not using the spec, class build they want, tanks think they can just do what they want because they get instant queues. I never remember ESO being anywhere near this toxic in the past years.
Maybe I've just got Parkinson's...
I was once Banned for making a game criticism. Think about that.0
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