Why is my DPS so low with Melee NB?

Adam_Chattaway

If i snipe and light attack weave i pull about 20k DPS, i get about 10 with my melee skills and surprise attack, it just hits so weak? half the damage of snipe.... i just dont get it? it feels way more jank and worse to do and time than snipe weave as its way more unforgiving and slower pace to weave and surprise attack so why is the dps half? are skills not balanced?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

If i snipe and light attack weave i pull about 20k DPS, i get about 10 with my melee skills and surprise attack, it just hits so weak? half the damage of snipe.... i just dont get it? it feels way more jank and worse to do and time than snipe weave as its way more unforgiving and slower pace to weave and surprise attack so why is the dps half? are skills not balanced?

Ill cut to it, we are going to need more info. Rotation, skills, perhaps a parse screenshot if on PC. Short answer is that its definitely your rotation and likely your build to some degree, but rotation is way more important than build. You should not be doing less DPS at melee vs range as a general rule.

Adam_Chattaway

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

If i snipe and light attack weave i pull about 20k DPS, i get about 10 with my melee skills and surprise attack, it just hits so weak? half the damage of snipe.... i just dont get it? it feels way more jank and worse to do and time than snipe weave as its way more unforgiving and slower pace to weave and surprise attack so why is the dps half? are skills not balanced?

Ill cut to it, we are going to need more info. Rotation, skills, perhaps a parse screenshot if on PC. Short answer is that its definitely your rotation and likely your build to some degree, but rotation is way more important than build. You should not be doing less DPS at melee vs range as a general rule.

Yes I'm on pc. To simplify things if snipe spam alone does 20k shouldn't surprise spam deal is not more than snipe? Or is snipe just super good to spam solo?

Zodiarkslayer

So you do not use Buffs, or DoTs? Or any other ability than light attacks and Surprise attacks?
You do only want to measure Snipe against Surprise attack?

Is that your Question?

You have to elaborate on that! Please be as specific as you possibly can.

Scardan

Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.

Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yeah, Snipe I believe has higher base damage than Surprise attack. Snipe also has a modest cast time. But that is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of melee damage potential. A damage rotation has buffs, debuffs, DOTs, and typically a spam and an execute. All classes also come with a centerpiece to their rotation. With NB, that is relentless focus/merciless resolve. The most difficult part about playing NB is managing that skill and firing your spectral bow every 5th or 6th skill. NB also has a melee damage ultimate that is very difficult to keep up at range. Your execute ability on a stamina nightblade is also a melee ability.

So while just standing there spamming snipe might do more DPS than just spamming SA, it doesnt mean that range is more damage than melee.

Spamming snipe and nothing else is going to result in very poor DPS. I am not saying you cant build for solid ranged DPS, but there is way more too it than that. A fully optimized melee build will do more damage than a fully optimized ranged build as a general rule on a stamina class.

Also, NB is the most difficult rotation in the game. I am not here to talk you out of it, but if your goal is to become familiar with DPS rotations in ESO, there are better classes to test the waters.

Adam_Chattaway

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

So you do not use Buffs, or DoTs? Or any other ability than light attacks and Surprise attacks?
You do only want to measure Snipe against Surprise attack?

Is that your Question?

You have to elaborate on that! Please be as specific as you possibly can.

Just got home will do some testing but for now i find dots very weak in ESO? poison injection for example does less damage for me than 1 snipe and thats on a 20% dummy, why would i use poison injection when i could do a snipe in much quicker time?

As for the other question yes side by side 1 on 1 is surprise attack supposed to be MUCH weaker than snipe?

Adam_Chattaway

Scardan wrote: »

Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.

Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.

People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.

Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.

People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.

On a stamblade, I would go DW/Bow. Dual weild front, bow back. The 2H skill line is very redundant with the NB tool kit. You will likely run Rending Slashes and Deadly Cloak as DOTs from the DW line. You will also likely run Dark Shades (NB class DOT), Barbed Trap (fighters guild DOT and source of Minor force), endless hail/arrow barage (Bow, Ground DOT), and Posion Injection (bow single target DOT). Your two spams will be Surprise attack above 25% health and Killers blade (execute) below 25% health. On top of all that you will need to manage relentless focus.

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

So you do not use Buffs, or DoTs? Or any other ability than light attacks and Surprise attacks?
You do only want to measure Snipe against Surprise attack?

Is that your Question?

You have to elaborate on that! Please be as specific as you possibly can.

Just got home will do some testing but for now i find dots very weak in ESO? poison injection for example does less damage for me than 1 snipe and thats on a 20% dummy, why would i use poison injection when i could do a snipe in much quicker time?

As for the other question yes side by side 1 on 1 is surprise attack supposed to be MUCH weaker than snipe?

I don't think that is true. As a general rule, a DOT will do more total damage than a spam skill, and the time to cast is the same. The trick is that you need to let a DOT run its full course. Do not reapply them early with very few exceptions.

You need to understand this game operates on 1 second global cooldowns. Every 1 second, you have a choice as to what to cast, and it comes down to opportunity cost. Snipe might hit harder on the front end, but that same cast is going to give a 10 second DOT that over the life of that 10 seconds does more total damage than the cast of snipe. DOTS cannot be stacked with themselves, but you can stack multiple distinct DOTs at the same time.

So DOTs generally have a higher priority than your spam skill, which generally is the lowest priority of any skill in the rotation. Cast DOTs, Buffs, and Debuffs, and let them run their course. If all are ticking, that is when you use your spam.

There are two real exceptions to that rule. First, If the enemy is going to be dead in 5 seconds, dont cast a 10 second DOT. Cast your spam skill because in that instance, the spam will do more total Damage than a DOT that wont run its full course.

Second, specifically on a NB, your ultimate, incap strike, boosts damage by 20% for 6 seconds. You generally want to time this so that most of your DOTS are ticking, to maximize that 20% on your spam skill, which is the hardest hitting in that moment. Sometimes it makes sense to let a DOT expire for a few extra Spam skills right after you cast incap.

I am definitely getting into the weeds, but if you want to see what a stamblade can do at the extreme end of things, check this out. First half is DW/DW second half is DW/Bow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkaeACSwCWA&feature=emb_title

Adam_Chattaway

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.

Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.

People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.

On a stamblade, I would go DW/Bow. Dual weild front, bow back. The 2H skill line is very redundant with the NB tool kit. You will likely run Rending Slashes and Deadly Cloak as DOTs from the DW line. You will also likely run Dark Shades (NB class DOT), Barbed Trap (fighters guild DOT and source of Minor force), endless hail/arrow barage (Bow, Ground DOT), and Posion Injection (bow single target DOT). Your two spams will be Surprise attack above 25% health and Killers blade (execute) below 25% health. On top of all that you will need to manage relentless focus.

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

So you do not use Buffs, or DoTs? Or any other ability than light attacks and Surprise attacks?
You do only want to measure Snipe against Surprise attack?

Is that your Question?

You have to elaborate on that! Please be as specific as you possibly can.

Just got home will do some testing but for now i find dots very weak in ESO? poison injection for example does less damage for me than 1 snipe and thats on a 20% dummy, why would i use poison injection when i could do a snipe in much quicker time?

As for the other question yes side by side 1 on 1 is surprise attack supposed to be MUCH weaker than snipe?

I don't think that is true. As a general rule, a DOT will do more total damage than a spam skill, and the time to cast is the same. The trick is that you need to let a DOT run its full course. Do not reapply them early with very few exceptions.

You need to understand this game operates on 1 second global cooldowns. Every 1 second, you have a choice as to what to cast, and it comes down to opportunity cost. Snipe might hit harder on the front end, but that same cast is going to give a 10 second DOT that over the life of that 10 seconds does more total damage than the cast of snipe. DOTS cannot be stacked with themselves, but you can stack multiple distinct DOTs at the same time.

So DOTs generally have a higher priority than your spam skill, which generally is the lowest priority of any skill in the rotation. Cast DOTs, Buffs, and Debuffs, and let them run their course. If all are ticking, that is when you use your spam.

There are two real exceptions to that rule. First, If the enemy is going to be dead in 5 seconds, dont cast a 10 second DOT. Cast your spam skill because in that instance, the spam will do more total Damage than a DOT that wont run its full course.

Second, specifically on a NB, your ultimate, incap strike, boosts damage by 20% for 6 seconds. You generally want to time this so that most of your DOTS are ticking, to maximize that 20% on your spam skill, which is the hardest hitting in that moment. Sometimes it makes sense to let a DOT expire for a few extra Spam skills right after you cast incap.

I am definitely getting into the weeds, but if you want to see what a stamblade can do at the extreme end of things, check this out. First half is DW/DW second half is DW/Bow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkaeACSwCWA&feature=emb_title

I was thinking of going bow bow as I went and made this char to be an archer and I find it much easier in pvp to get kills at range than in melee.

Goregrinder

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.

Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.

People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.

On a stamblade, I would go DW/Bow. Dual weild front, bow back. The 2H skill line is very redundant with the NB tool kit. You will likely run Rending Slashes and Deadly Cloak as DOTs from the DW line. You will also likely run Dark Shades (NB class DOT), Barbed Trap (fighters guild DOT and source of Minor force), endless hail/arrow barage (Bow, Ground DOT), and Posion Injection (bow single target DOT). Your two spams will be Surprise attack above 25% health and Killers blade (execute) below 25% health. On top of all that you will need to manage relentless focus.

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

So you do not use Buffs, or DoTs? Or any other ability than light attacks and Surprise attacks?
You do only want to measure Snipe against Surprise attack?

Is that your Question?

You have to elaborate on that! Please be as specific as you possibly can.

Just got home will do some testing but for now i find dots very weak in ESO? poison injection for example does less damage for me than 1 snipe and thats on a 20% dummy, why would i use poison injection when i could do a snipe in much quicker time?

As for the other question yes side by side 1 on 1 is surprise attack supposed to be MUCH weaker than snipe?

I don't think that is true. As a general rule, a DOT will do more total damage than a spam skill, and the time to cast is the same. The trick is that you need to let a DOT run its full course. Do not reapply them early with very few exceptions.

You need to understand this game operates on 1 second global cooldowns. Every 1 second, you have a choice as to what to cast, and it comes down to opportunity cost. Snipe might hit harder on the front end, but that same cast is going to give a 10 second DOT that over the life of that 10 seconds does more total damage than the cast of snipe. DOTS cannot be stacked with themselves, but you can stack multiple distinct DOTs at the same time.

So DOTs generally have a higher priority than your spam skill, which generally is the lowest priority of any skill in the rotation. Cast DOTs, Buffs, and Debuffs, and let them run their course. If all are ticking, that is when you use your spam.

There are two real exceptions to that rule. First, If the enemy is going to be dead in 5 seconds, dont cast a 10 second DOT. Cast your spam skill because in that instance, the spam will do more total Damage than a DOT that wont run its full course.

Second, specifically on a NB, your ultimate, incap strike, boosts damage by 20% for 6 seconds. You generally want to time this so that most of your DOTS are ticking, to maximize that 20% on your spam skill, which is the hardest hitting in that moment. Sometimes it makes sense to let a DOT expire for a few extra Spam skills right after you cast incap.

I am definitely getting into the weeds, but if you want to see what a stamblade can do at the extreme end of things, check this out. First half is DW/DW second half is DW/Bow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkaeACSwCWA&feature=emb_title

I was thinking of going bow bow as I went and made this char to be an archer and I find it much easier in pvp to get kills at range than in melee.

PVP is certainly easier to learn as a ranged player. It's not that it really easier to kill as its easier to avoid getting killed yourself. Nothing wrong with playing Bow/Bow in PVE either. But your damage potential will be lower than say DW/bow or DW/DW (Staff/Staff on magic). Range is just easier to play for the most part. You are going to experience less mechanics in PVE and generally less burst damage in PVP. It is a great way to learn.

Here is the good news. It's not like you are bound to one playstyle for your whole eso experience. Start with bow/bow if you want to, but I would suggest experimenting with DW as well. It may have a steeper learning curve, but it will come with more potential in the long run.

Also, if ranged is really your goal, you will probably do better with a Magic class. Bow/bow snipe spamming will get you safe kills against easy targets in ESO, but any decent player will close the gap on you, and end your day. Bow/Bow gank builds are pretty low on the list of threats you need to worry about in PVP, assuming they dont lag spike you and get lucky with 3 snipes landing at once before you know what happened. If bursting from stealth is your goal, you will get more consistent results with DW as well, but of course, you need to get closer.

QuebraRegra

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

If i snipe and light attack weave i pull about 20k DPS, i get about 10 with my melee skills and surprise attack, it just hits so weak? half the damage of snipe.... i just dont get it? it feels way more jank and worse to do and time than snipe weave as its way more unforgiving and slower pace to weave and surprise attack so why is the dps half? are skills not balanced?

[snip]

NB rotation is a lot harder. More.. a lot more, needs to be known about yer build/rotation.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Goregrinder wrote: »

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

The TLDR version of that is that PVP and PVE play very different. PVP favors Burst, PVE favors sustained DPS. Your title suggests PVE, but sounds like you might be more interested in PVP. The same build does not work for both. They are going to be very very different unless you want to be lousy at both.

Adam_Chattaway

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

The TLDR version of that is that PVP and PVE play very different. PVP favors Burst, PVE favors sustained DPS. Your title suggests PVE, but sounds like you might be more interested in PVP. The same build does not work for both. They are going to be very very different unless you want to be lousy at both.

So i did a DOT damage test with P injection on a dummy with 20% health, the total damage was 21k, 1 snipe hits for 25k. In wow, swtor etc dots are clearly very powerful and deal double if not tripple the damage of some spammable skills but in ESO i feels dots are just bad?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

The TLDR version of that is that PVP and PVE play very different. PVP favors Burst, PVE favors sustained DPS. Your title suggests PVE, but sounds like you might be more interested in PVP. The same build does not work for both. They are going to be very very different unless you want to be lousy at both.

So i did a DOT damage test with P injection on a dummy with 20% health, the total damage was 21k, 1 snipe hits for 25k. In wow, swtor etc dots are clearly very powerful and deal double if not tripple the damage of some spammable skills but in ESO i feels dots are just bad?

Well snipe currently has I believe a full second cast time making it function almost like a channel, where as most true spammables are instant cast. It is also getting reworked next patch to lower the cast time and lower the damage output to bring it in line with other spam skills. Its certainly a bit of an outlier at the moment. I don't know enough about your build to know why you are getting the numbers you are getting, but my guess is those results are a bit of an outlier. Was the Snipe a crit hit? How many of the DOT ticks crit in your test, etc? But even if not, PI is instant cast so it's not totally apples to apples. Also, PI is not a great DOT. It has been nerfed over the years and a lot of high DPS builds dont run it any longer. As a general rule, a DOT will do more total damage per cast than a spam skill and Spamming Snipe is terrible PVE DPS by itself.

Adam_Chattaway

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

The TLDR version of that is that PVP and PVE play very different. PVP favors Burst, PVE favors sustained DPS. Your title suggests PVE, but sounds like you might be more interested in PVP. The same build does not work for both. They are going to be very very different unless you want to be lousy at both.

So i did a DOT damage test with P injection on a dummy with 20% health, the total damage was 21k, 1 snipe hits for 25k. In wow, swtor etc dots are clearly very powerful and deal double if not tripple the damage of some spammable skills but in ESO i feels dots are just bad?

Well snipe currently has I believe a full second cast time making it function almost like a channel, where as most true spammables are instant cast. It is also getting reworked next patch to lower the cast time and lower the damage output to bring it in line with other spam skills. Its certainly a bit of an outlier at the moment. I don't know enough about your build to know why you are getting the numbers you are getting, but my guess is those results are a bit of an outlier. Was the Snipe a crit hit? How many of the DOT ticks crit in your test, etc? But even if not, PI is instant cast so it's not totally apples to apples. Also, PI is not a great DOT. It has been nerfed over the years and a lot of high DPS builds dont run it any longer. As a general rule, a DOT will do more total damage per cast than a spam skill and Spamming Snipe is terrible PVE DPS by itself.

In pvp my snipe often deals no damage to some players I today put about 13 snipers into a stam warden and he didn't lose any health... if they nerd it to be tue same weakness as suprise attack which for me does nothing in pvp ill prib have to quit the game. This op meta shot is ridiculous and ruins all fun. I will NEVER say wow or gw2 is imbalanced again...

nukk3r

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

The TLDR version of that is that PVP and PVE play very different. PVP favors Burst, PVE favors sustained DPS. Your title suggests PVE, but sounds like you might be more interested in PVP. The same build does not work for both. They are going to be very very different unless you want to be lousy at both.

So i did a DOT damage test with P injection on a dummy with 20% health, the total damage was 21k, 1 snipe hits for 25k. In wow, swtor etc dots are clearly very powerful and deal double if not tripple the damage of some spammable skills but in ESO i feels dots are just bad?

Well snipe currently has I believe a full second cast time making it function almost like a channel, where as most true spammables are instant cast. It is also getting reworked next patch to lower the cast time and lower the damage output to bring it in line with other spam skills. Its certainly a bit of an outlier at the moment. I don't know enough about your build to know why you are getting the numbers you are getting, but my guess is those results are a bit of an outlier. Was the Snipe a crit hit? How many of the DOT ticks crit in your test, etc? But even if not, PI is instant cast so it's not totally apples to apples. Also, PI is not a great DOT. It has been nerfed over the years and a lot of high DPS builds dont run it any longer. As a general rule, a DOT will do more total damage per cast than a spam skill and Spamming Snipe is terrible PVE DPS by itself.

In pvp my snipe often deals no damage to some players I today put about 13 snipers into a stam warden and he didn't lose any health... if they nerd it to be tue same weakness as suprise attack which for me does nothing in pvp ill prib have to quit the game. This op meta shot is ridiculous and ruins all fun. I will NEVER say wow or gw2 is imbalanced again...

Or you know, instead of quitting you can just invest some time in actually learning how to play your class, and not just spam a single skill hoping that you'll somehow succeed. There are a lot of stamblade PvP builds online, with gameplay videos and detailed descriptions of every aspect. But you do you.

Adam_Chattaway

nukk3r wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

The TLDR version of that is that PVP and PVE play very different. PVP favors Burst, PVE favors sustained DPS. Your title suggests PVE, but sounds like you might be more interested in PVP. The same build does not work for both. They are going to be very very different unless you want to be lousy at both.

So i did a DOT damage test with P injection on a dummy with 20% health, the total damage was 21k, 1 snipe hits for 25k. In wow, swtor etc dots are clearly very powerful and deal double if not tripple the damage of some spammable skills but in ESO i feels dots are just bad?

Well snipe currently has I believe a full second cast time making it function almost like a channel, where as most true spammables are instant cast. It is also getting reworked next patch to lower the cast time and lower the damage output to bring it in line with other spam skills. Its certainly a bit of an outlier at the moment. I don't know enough about your build to know why you are getting the numbers you are getting, but my guess is those results are a bit of an outlier. Was the Snipe a crit hit? How many of the DOT ticks crit in your test, etc? But even if not, PI is instant cast so it's not totally apples to apples. Also, PI is not a great DOT. It has been nerfed over the years and a lot of high DPS builds dont run it any longer. As a general rule, a DOT will do more total damage per cast than a spam skill and Spamming Snipe is terrible PVE DPS by itself.

In pvp my snipe often deals no damage to some players I today put about 13 snipers into a stam warden and he didn't lose any health... if they nerd it to be tue same weakness as suprise attack which for me does nothing in pvp ill prib have to quit the game. This op meta shot is ridiculous and ruins all fun. I will NEVER say wow or gw2 is imbalanced again...

Or you know, instead of quitting you can just invest some time in actually learning how to play your class, and not just spam a single skill hoping that you'll somehow succeed. There are a lot of stamblade PvP builds online, with gameplay videos and detailed descriptions of every aspect. But you do you.

I've played mmos since gw1 and I've always been ok at pvp never amazing but eso is a whole new level if min max reeeeeee. Here people can just make builds thay are so ridiculous I've witnessed them solo 10 players. I stealth and open and ult and deal no damage to them and then they break stun and 2 shot me. I have no skill to be able to learn and pull off this sort of ridiculous meta stuff imo it ruins the game. My nifgtbladd seems to explore the second I get I melee and I have no idea how anyone survives it. I cast vigor the second d I get attacked and I'm dead before the 4 seconds is up...

QuebraRegra

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

Well, if you spam snipe alone with LA you will keep stacks of Hawk Eye, which buffs Snipe to 25% max. Snipe also has higher base damage.

Anyway, your DPS does not come from spamming one skill, so you want to activate Relentless Focus every time you proc it with Surprise Attack, use execute, DoTs etc.

People keep telling me to go dual wield and others 2h, it seems pretty 50/50.

the poster was trying to tell you that you need MORE skill variety in yer rotation. dual wield/2h are close enough yu can go either way (more sustain/survival on 2h I think, a bit more dmg on dual). If yer not procing RELENTLESS yer losing a huge chunk of yer parse. Get yer dots down, flip to main bar and go to town.

What are you looking for in terms of DPS? TBH, SNIPE will not be good for a high DPS rotation.

QuebraRegra

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

The TLDR version of that is that PVP and PVE play very different. PVP favors Burst, PVE favors sustained DPS. Your title suggests PVE, but sounds like you might be more interested in PVP. The same build does not work for both. They are going to be very very different unless you want to be lousy at both.

So i did a DOT damage test with P injection on a dummy with 20% health, the total damage was 21k, 1 snipe hits for 25k. In wow, swtor etc dots are clearly very powerful and deal double if not tripple the damage of some spammable skills but in ESO i feels dots are just bad?

DOTs are free DPS once you drop them, it's the total damage OVER TIME... not a burst. Add them all up, add in yer burst with weaves and there you have it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I think I have lost patience with this thread. It started out as what I thought was a simple PVE DPS question from someone trying to learn the ropes and has morphed into a thread from someone that doesnt like the info he is getting and seems upset with the fact that he cant click one button on repeat and be successful.

ESO has a higher combat skill threshold than just about any MMO to date. It's not for everyone. But you wont convince me that spamming snipe from max range in PVP can or should secure kills against anybody with an ounce of skill. Good luck out there.

nukk3r

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

The TLDR version of that is that PVP and PVE play very different. PVP favors Burst, PVE favors sustained DPS. Your title suggests PVE, but sounds like you might be more interested in PVP. The same build does not work for both. They are going to be very very different unless you want to be lousy at both.

So i did a DOT damage test with P injection on a dummy with 20% health, the total damage was 21k, 1 snipe hits for 25k. In wow, swtor etc dots are clearly very powerful and deal double if not tripple the damage of some spammable skills but in ESO i feels dots are just bad?

Well snipe currently has I believe a full second cast time making it function almost like a channel, where as most true spammables are instant cast. It is also getting reworked next patch to lower the cast time and lower the damage output to bring it in line with other spam skills. Its certainly a bit of an outlier at the moment. I don't know enough about your build to know why you are getting the numbers you are getting, but my guess is those results are a bit of an outlier. Was the Snipe a crit hit? How many of the DOT ticks crit in your test, etc? But even if not, PI is instant cast so it's not totally apples to apples. Also, PI is not a great DOT. It has been nerfed over the years and a lot of high DPS builds dont run it any longer. As a general rule, a DOT will do more total damage per cast than a spam skill and Spamming Snipe is terrible PVE DPS by itself.

In pvp my snipe often deals no damage to some players I today put about 13 snipers into a stam warden and he didn't lose any health... if they nerd it to be tue same weakness as suprise attack which for me does nothing in pvp ill prib have to quit the game. This op meta shot is ridiculous and ruins all fun. I will NEVER say wow or gw2 is imbalanced again...

Or you know, instead of quitting you can just invest some time in actually learning how to play your class, and not just spam a single skill hoping that you'll somehow succeed. There are a lot of stamblade PvP builds online, with gameplay videos and detailed descriptions of every aspect. But you do you.

I've played mmos since gw1 and I've always been ok at pvp never amazing but eso is a whole new level if min max reeeeeee. Here people can just make builds thay are so ridiculous I've witnessed them solo 10 players. I stealth and open and ult and deal no damage to them and then they break stun and 2 shot me. I have no skill to be able to learn and pull off this sort of ridiculous meta stuff imo it ruins the game. My nifgtbladd seems to explore the second I get I melee and I have no idea how anyone survives it. I cast vigor the second d I get attacked and I'm dead before the 4 seconds is up...

Part of knowing how to play your class is choosing your battles. No one in their right mind would try to burst down a 40k+ HP stamden or stamdk, especially the ones wearing Thews of the Harbinger or Crimson Twilight (which they do a lot). Find a squishier target in a 23-28k HP range and see how you fare against them. Just don't be a mindless Snipe spammer.

Jaimeh

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've played mmos since gw1 and I've always been ok at pvp never amazing but eso is a whole new level if min max reeeeeee. Here people can just make builds thay are so ridiculous I've witnessed them solo 10 players. I stealth and open and ult and deal no damage to them and then they break stun and 2 shot me. I have no skill to be able to learn and pull off this sort of ridiculous meta stuff imo it ruins the game. My nifgtbladd seems to explore the second I get I melee and I have no idea how anyone survives it. I cast vigor the second d I get attacked and I'm dead before the 4 seconds is up...

Most good players have been playing the game for years, they didn't get skillful overnight. StamNBs usually have medium armour on, and that makes them squishier, so you need to constantly move/roll, and also make use of your escape tools, like cloak, and shadow image. It can only sustain a fight with doing a lot of movement, and engagement/disengagement, it can't face tank. Play more defensively when learning, invest more in health and mitigation, you might not get the kill but you will surive in order to learn your skills. For vigour, it's a HOT, it's not a burst heal, so always keep that in mind, and don't wait to use it at the last second. If you use a 2-hander also keep up rally, and you can also use leeching strikes, for extra healing.

Adam_Chattaway

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I think I have lost patience with this thread. It started out as what I thought was a simple PVE DPS question from someone trying to learn the ropes and has morphed into a thread from someone that doesnt like the info he is getting and seems upset with the fact that he cant click one button on repeat and be successful.

ESO has a higher combat skill threshold than just about any MMO to date. It's not for everyone. But you wont convince me that spamming snipe from max range in PVP can or should secure kills against anybody with an ounce of skill. Good luck out there.

DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.

Adam_Chattaway

Jaimeh wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've played mmos since gw1 and I've always been ok at pvp never amazing but eso is a whole new level if min max reeeeeee. Here people can just make builds thay are so ridiculous I've witnessed them solo 10 players. I stealth and open and ult and deal no damage to them and then they break stun and 2 shot me. I have no skill to be able to learn and pull off this sort of ridiculous meta stuff imo it ruins the game. My nifgtbladd seems to explore the second I get I melee and I have no idea how anyone survives it. I cast vigor the second d I get attacked and I'm dead before the 4 seconds is up...

Most good players have been playing the game for years, they didn't get skillful overnight. StamNBs usually have medium armour on, and that makes them squishier, so you need to constantly move/roll, and also make use of your escape tools, like cloak, and shadow image. It can only sustain a fight with doing a lot of movement, and engagement/disengagement, it can't face tank. Play more defensively when learning, invest more in health and mitigation, you might not get the kill but you will surive in order to learn your skills. For vigour, it's a HOT, it's not a burst heal, so always keep that in mind, and don't wait to use it at the last second. If you use a 2-hander also keep up rally, and you can also use leeching strikes, for extra healing.

I have leeching strikes but i think the problem is with food buff i have 16k health an get killed before i can even heal, and with no CP my stam is always running out and takes forever to regen even heavy attacking.

Adam_Chattaway

nukk3r wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

MMORPG's like ESO have two flavors of damage: Burst damage, and sustained damage. PVE content such as trials, dungeons, arenas, etc don't care about burst damage at all, which is what you are comparing between snipe and poison inject.

You're noticing that when you cast poison injection, it does x=amount of damage, but when you cast sniper it does more damage on that hit. And you are absolutely right, we call that "burst" damage, and snipe does more burst than poison injection. The damage of snipe is front loaded, so you get ALL of the damage right away. Poison injection is a Damage Over Time (Dot). It's not front loaded, so it provides it's damage over the course of x=amount of seconds, rather than all of it immediately.

"But why wouldn't anyone want all of their damage of front?" Good question, glad you asked! Because PVE is a game of math. Boss fights last for minutes, so the goal is to stack buffed damage every second you possibly can within those 2 or 3 or 4 minutes (however long it takes your group to kill a boss). So the goal isn't for each attack to hit as hard as possible, but to leave absolutely no gap in your damage over the course of the boss fight, and then to keep all of your buffs that increase that damage up as long as possible.

The best way to do that in PVE, is to stack dots, stack buffs, stack enemy debuffs, and use one spammable filler ability. PVE is all about maintenance. That spammable is only used when you literally have nothing else to cast...it is the least important ability on your bar because burst damage is meaningless when a fight lasts 3 or 4 minutes, and it is an inefficient way to trade your resources for damage. Buffed DoTs are the most efficient way to trade resources for damage.

So you shouldn't really be focuses on ability's front loaded damage when trying to increase your own DPS, you should be focusing on what else you could actively do to buff the damage you are putting out, and care about sustained damage. PVP is where burst damage matters, because players can be killed within a few seconds of combing the right abilities together...dungeon bosses on the other hand, cannot...some of them have a few million health so there is no way you are going to burst them down even if you wanted to.

The TLDR version of that is that PVP and PVE play very different. PVP favors Burst, PVE favors sustained DPS. Your title suggests PVE, but sounds like you might be more interested in PVP. The same build does not work for both. They are going to be very very different unless you want to be lousy at both.

So i did a DOT damage test with P injection on a dummy with 20% health, the total damage was 21k, 1 snipe hits for 25k. In wow, swtor etc dots are clearly very powerful and deal double if not tripple the damage of some spammable skills but in ESO i feels dots are just bad?

Well snipe currently has I believe a full second cast time making it function almost like a channel, where as most true spammables are instant cast. It is also getting reworked next patch to lower the cast time and lower the damage output to bring it in line with other spam skills. Its certainly a bit of an outlier at the moment. I don't know enough about your build to know why you are getting the numbers you are getting, but my guess is those results are a bit of an outlier. Was the Snipe a crit hit? How many of the DOT ticks crit in your test, etc? But even if not, PI is instant cast so it's not totally apples to apples. Also, PI is not a great DOT. It has been nerfed over the years and a lot of high DPS builds dont run it any longer. As a general rule, a DOT will do more total damage per cast than a spam skill and Spamming Snipe is terrible PVE DPS by itself.

In pvp my snipe often deals no damage to some players I today put about 13 snipers into a stam warden and he didn't lose any health... if they nerd it to be tue same weakness as suprise attack which for me does nothing in pvp ill prib have to quit the game. This op meta shot is ridiculous and ruins all fun. I will NEVER say wow or gw2 is imbalanced again...

Or you know, instead of quitting you can just invest some time in actually learning how to play your class, and not just spam a single skill hoping that you'll somehow succeed. There are a lot of stamblade PvP builds online, with gameplay videos and detailed descriptions of every aspect. But you do you.

I've played mmos since gw1 and I've always been ok at pvp never amazing but eso is a whole new level if min max reeeeeee. Here people can just make builds thay are so ridiculous I've witnessed them solo 10 players. I stealth and open and ult and deal no damage to them and then they break stun and 2 shot me. I have no skill to be able to learn and pull off this sort of ridiculous meta stuff imo it ruins the game. My nifgtbladd seems to explore the second I get I melee and I have no idea how anyone survives it. I cast vigor the second d I get attacked and I'm dead before the 4 seconds is up...

Part of knowing how to play your class is choosing your battles. No one in their right mind would try to burst down a 40k+ HP stamden or stamdk, especially the ones wearing Thews of the Harbinger or Crimson Twilight (which they do a lot). Find a squishier target in a 23-28k HP range and see how you fare against them. Just don't be a mindless Snipe spammer.

As someone who wants to play bows i feel snipe is the only tool that can do anything, people always telling me bow is *** in eso, dont go bow, bow is bad dps etc etc. if one of the main weapons IRL, in Fantasy, In movies, In games, In LIFE is *** in ESO then well f me sideways... i can kill low health players in 4 ish snipes if they are unaware but anyone who fights back wrecks me and my bow. You say don;t engage a 40k stamden wtc but who the hell should then? it seems broken if dps can't engage these and win 1v1 let alone when i've seem them take out 4-10 players solo.

Adam_Chattaway

Jaimeh wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've played mmos since gw1 and I've always been ok at pvp never amazing but eso is a whole new level if min max reeeeeee. Here people can just make builds thay are so ridiculous I've witnessed them solo 10 players. I stealth and open and ult and deal no damage to them and then they break stun and 2 shot me. I have no skill to be able to learn and pull off this sort of ridiculous meta stuff imo it ruins the game. My nifgtbladd seems to explore the second I get I melee and I have no idea how anyone survives it. I cast vigor the second d I get attacked and I'm dead before the 4 seconds is up...

Most good players have been playing the game for years, they didn't get skillful overnight. StamNBs usually have medium armour on, and that makes them squishier, so you need to constantly move/roll, and also make use of your escape tools, like cloak, and shadow image. It can only sustain a fight with doing a lot of movement, and engagement/disengagement, it can't face tank. Play more defensively when learning, invest more in health and mitigation, you might not get the kill but you will surive in order to learn your skills. For vigour, it's a HOT, it's not a burst heal, so always keep that in mind, and don't wait to use it at the last second. If you use a 2-hander also keep up rally, and you can also use leeching strikes, for extra healing.

When i have 16k health buffed, no amount of heals seem to save me and i'm bursted dead in less than 2 seconds? only way i see heals helping is if im 40k HP in heavy armour. Otherwise 3 ish 5k attacks kill me.

Misty

You know when you swing your daggers, it seem to me that most of the time they are missing the target. Is this a thing, were you miss?

belfong

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

When i have 16k health buffed, no amount of heals seem to save me and i'm bursted dead in less than 2 seconds? only way i see heals helping is if im 40k HP in heavy armour. Otherwise 3 ish 5k attacks kill me.

I tend to agree with this. When I put 64 into Stam and zero in Health, I have high DPS but, I died easily. A dead toon is useless to the group. But, if I put 34 Stam and 30 Health, I dealt lower DPS but I survived longer, much, much longer - and in the scheme of things, my total DPS is higher since I could survive. So, I’m sorry to say but I’d rather be hardy and hit like a girl than be like a candle and died in the first 3 minutes of a fight.

Zodiarkslayer

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I think I have lost patience with this thread. It started out as what I thought was a simple PVE DPS question from someone trying to learn the ropes and has morphed into a thread from someone that doesnt like the info he is getting and seems upset with the fact that he cant click one button on repeat and be successful.

ESO has a higher combat skill threshold than just about any MMO to date. It's not for everyone. But you wont convince me that spamming snipe from max range in PVP can or should secure kills against anybody with an ounce of skill. Good luck out there.

DOT PARSE 21K SNIPE PARSE 25K. DOT DOES LESS DAMAGE OVER TIME THAN SNIPE. I;m not sure what you're not understanding here. I have combat metrics, stop being a GNOB.

[I hope I am not violating ToS here, [snip]]

@Adam_Chattaway Please be civil! We try too.

A ) The way you are responding and the amount of information you neglect to provide, even after being directly asked for it, do not help either. As in: Gear, Gear Quality, abilities used on frontbar/ backbar, your CP allocation, what Dummy do you use, etc. etc.

B ) The difference between your parses is within a margin of randomness, that can result from just missing few light attacks and abilities. Nothing really noteworthy, except, that both are really low. On a level of a Trash fight with Normal Dungeon Mobs in a disorganised pick up group, actually. So please provide insight on how you got these numbers.

C ) The previous comments clearly stated to stack multiple Damage over Time efects and then to use a spammable inbetween. Additionally it is necessary to use a (standard, run of the mill) Light Attack after each ability. These are things that can be learned really easily in this game. Perfected, not so much. Everybody knows that and so everyone expects you to know as well. If that is not the case, please just say so and keep calm! The community is generally happy to help.

D ) Please be also aware, that ESO is a MMO, that has a relatively high requirement of individual Player Skill and Dedication. However, you can play how you like it. If you decide to play OFF META, Great! I do too. But do not expect META results.

Also, just like in Poker, you do not win against stronger players. But you can get better by loosing the right way against them.

ESO is not WoW. It is not GW2.

[edited for baiting]