Vault Protector is overnerfed.

hcbigdogdoghc

From what I can gather, for next patch:
1. Boss will walk to the middle before executing the laser mechanic
2. Adds can now be cc'ed (stuns, chains, etc)
3. Spheres no longer use their aoe attack
4. You can now jump over/dodge roll the lasers

I understand that this boss is the #1 culprit for the extremely low clear rate of this dungeon, and that a nerf is needed. But all four nerfs together is just too much, especially #3 and #4, these changes made the mechanics completely irrelevant.

zvavi

it was overnerfed indeed.

ccfeeling

I think ZOS better undo those 4 moves , patch notes also mentioned the lasers pop up slowly , that's really enough .

difficulty is required in VET mode , this is DLC dungeon .

zvavi

The funny part is, that the lasers are still buggy as heck, and if you run through them, yes, run through them. You have a high chance to survive. The lasers were popping slower as well like @ccfeeling said, and it is indeed another major nerf to the boss. The fight has become another chain in adds, wait the immune phase out, kill boss. Boring. boring. boring. long immune phases that you have nothing to do in are a major negative.

ccfeeling

In my FV PUG life , around 70% - 80% we disbanded in Vault Protector room , some players know what to do but they just can't react in limited time . During 4 lasers phase , rev is really hard unless you get a nec , tank focus on positioning and taunt adds , but taunted sphere aoe can also kill the team

This fight mechanics are quiet nasty .

One more thing , if your tank is new comer , disband rate goes up to 90%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hZja7qxb78

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_04ZW7Q9oc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFxqLeFfZcE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9GzXj9tek0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CC7gu7EcXY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKIK2-hbjOY

Zatox

I wish ZOS add an option to fight with the original version. Some kind of HM banner for those who like this fight.
Wiping is fun, hard content is fun. But now this fight isn't fun anymore.

dinokstrunz

People will probably still complain Frostvaults is too hard most likely.

AinSoph

I'd gladly just take jumping over/roll dodging lasers only but all of that seems a bit too excessive.

robpr

Imo it's like with ICP. Brace for Impact was constantly bugging so it's removed. Same with lasers in FV - but it would be just enough with boss going to middle, dodge laser is overkill.

zvavi

robpr wrote: »

Imo it's like with ICP. Brace for Impact was constantly bugging so it's removed. Same with lasers in FV - but it would be just enough with boss going to middle, dodge laser is overkill.

Can't make avalanche spawn during 4th boss after a wipe? Remove 1st spawn animation.
Can't make the adds during 2nd boss understand they are mid fight and start fighting when they spawn? Remove them.
3rd Boss was moving a moment before shield phase and it makes lasers buggy? Throw him to the middle.

So many things just gone because they can't fix things. Ps, as I already said, you can still survive lasers by going through them fast enough, so it is still pretty bugged.

Moving him to the middle and making lasers slower, is enough. If it is not, they can nerf him more in the future.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Jumping over should make you evade it
Why because you didn touth it

If we can roll dodge trough molag kena wall of lightning we should be able to jump over the laser without bieng killed by a damage source that did not toutch us
But apart from that i agree

Kolzki

Ways that I played the laser mechanic on vet last night without dying: jumping, rolling, blocking, running through it, standing still with protection buffs and, finally, accidentally standing behind the boss shield. Did the laser damage get nerfed? It needed two damage ticks to kill me on a dd.

Wuerstal

This is just plain sad tbh. I really loved frostvault. In part exactly because of this Boss. Are the mechanics difficult? Compared to most mechanics in the game: yes. But in general? No. A friend of me (tank) and me (heal) got through there with random groups often. A lot of the time dmg was bad. CP were around 300-400. Mechanics were not known by dds. So what did we do?

We explained the mechanics to them. we used Barrier ults to negate most of the non-oneshot damage, rezzed alot and pushed through. It took death, blood and sweat but we did it. Tank and me always tried to clear out the spheres with the bombs running around.
That, in my opinion, should be the norm in vet dungeons. Difficulty.

With higher dps you already have zero problems in there. and now you can just burn the boss at the center, tank pulls adds to boss, jump when lazer comes. Profit. No challenge at all. boring.


And to the people saying: But weaker players want to do that dungeon too!
Hey, shht, Its called "normal mode".

Wuerstal

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Jumping over should make you evade it
Why because you didn touth it

If we can roll dodge trough molag kena wall of lightning we should be able to jump over the laser without bieng killed by a damage source that did not toutch us
But apart from that i agree

I'd rather have them increase the size of the laser then. Just jumping over them is boring imho. but fine. lets have that in there. Still no justification for any of the other nerfs the boss got.

MaegMaeg

With these changes, you basically don't need a healer or tank for the boss. It is completely overnerfed indeed.
I really hate it when ZOS removes interesting mechanics from vet content, like they already did with Planar Inhibitor in vWGT and Galchobhar in vBRF. It's vet content after all, it's supposed to be challenging.

1. Boss will walk to the middle before executing the laser mechanic

pretty much the only thing the tank has to worry about

2. Adds can now be cc'ed (stuns, chains, etc)

not sure about this one, either this change or nerf the aoe damage a bit

3. Spheres no longer use their aoe attack

wth? So you can ignore them now? This attack is the only dangerous thing about them

4. You can now jump over/dodge roll the lasers

not a fan, it's the key mechanic of the boss to hide behind him when he does lasers

My suggestion if you want to nerf this fight a bit:
Lower the aoe dmg of the spheres a bit OR make them cc-able.

Magdalina

Oh good, I came here to make this thread but looks like it's already here. At least someone shares my sentiment.

It's probably my favourite boss in the whole game, I've run vFV countless times with friends and pugs alike, I've gotten people who had 300 CP, no prior dlc dungeon experience at all and 30k group dps total through, these nerfs are not needed. This is not actually a super hard fight (last boss on HM is a super hard fight, for example), the issue is getting the idea and then just going with the rhythm. That's actually what a pug (~300-ish cp, low dps, new to the place - but very persistent and willing to learn, so we made it eventually) told me the other day there too - 'I like it, it's like dancing to a certain rhythm'.

The only thing that's needed there is fixing the laser issue, alright, maybe make the lasers pop up a bit slower so it's easier to see. That I can understand. Alright, maybe nerf spheres' aoe damage a liiiiiittle bit. But the other nerfs? That's literally destroying the fight. Like 'hey, we have mechs here but you're welcome to just ignore them'.

Also, 'boss will now go to the middle of the room'? What. The. Heck. The boss should be positioned in the middle of the room by tank (not like it's that hard to do. Lasers aside, you just taunt him and stand there pretty much, no reason to move. Why would the boss NOT be in the middle of the room?), if he isn't, well your tank did bad and you will pay the price. Since when do we have bosses do tank's job for him? What's next, make boss(-es) turn around on his own and do his heavy in the direction where no one is standing just so he doesn't accidentally hurt someone? Aw shucks, let's just make the boss hit himself at this rate...that's absurd.

Also, how are these nerfs even chosen? Yes, the lasers are probably the single worst part of this dungeon. But...archers and the jump on Tzogvin? C'mon now, the biggest pug killer there is the bleed/heavies on tank, but that's left untouched. Also, multitudes of pugs struggle with SCP and MGF first bosses too, for example. I'd say the completion rate for those is barely higher than with Vault Protector, in my experience. But those were left entirely untouched, yet this one fight is completely DESTROYED.

I'm SO upset by this. Please reconsider these changes.

stefj68

maybe they went to hard on it... just jumping over the laser, or boss go to the middle would have been enough...

Rkindaleft

Honestly, yeah. Even something like the CC of enemies makes this much easier than it was beforehand. Most groups I've been with the lasers are not what causes the problems to begin with. I play on Console so I can't test this but it seems like any slightly challenging mechanic from this fight have been made largely redundant.