Why Does Light Armor Increase Block Cost?

Trinotops

Why am I being discouraged from using Sword and Shield or an Ice Staff in Light Armor? If I want to make up for the squishiness of Light Armor by running a Shield or Ice Staff then I should be able to.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Trinotops wrote: »

Why am I being discouraged from using Sword and Shield or an Ice Staff in Light Armor? If I want to make up for the squishiness of Light Armor by running a Shield or Ice Staff then I should be able to.

It makes sense robes weighing pretty much nothing and having no ability to help you “brace” while blocking like a sturdy stiff piece of leather or plate metal can.

Also to force a trade off of power and defense.

Araneae6537

It shouldn’t cost more but be less effective than blocking in heavy armor, no? That would make sense. Like using a shield blocks more damage.

Jsmalls

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Trinotops wrote: »

Why am I being discouraged from using Sword and Shield or an Ice Staff in Light Armor? If I want to make up for the squishiness of Light Armor by running a Shield or Ice Staff then I should be able to.

It makes sense robes weighing pretty much nothing and having no ability to help you “brace” while blocking like a sturdy stiff piece of leather or plate metal can.

Also to force a trade off of power and defense.

I mean I get it. But what power? 5000 penetration and 7% crit?

Heavy armor is currently the way to go, and adding more nerfs to a scarcely used light armor (PvP) doesn't make much sense.

But who knows maybe the new cp system will change that. Time will tell.

Trinotops

Araneae6537 wrote: »

It shouldn’t cost more but be less effective than blocking in heavy armor, no? That would make sense. Like using a shield blocks more damage.

It would still be less effective than heavy armor blocking even if they removed the increased block cost. Light Armor reducing the amount of damage you can block wouldn't be any better either since it would still be discouraging a player from using a Shield or Ice Staff. Discouraging a player from using X armor type with X weapon ultimately limits player choice and goes against the whole "play how you want" thing ZOS has been going for in combat design.

Vevvev

As a magDK with only 15k stamina, light armor, and a habit of blocking enemy bursts.... this is going to hurt

lnigo

you are a scrawny mage in cloth struggling to withstand a barrage of physical attacks by orc monke

Chelo

Trinotops wrote: »

Why am I being discouraged from using Sword and Shield or an Ice Staff in Light Armor? If I want to make up for the squishiness of Light Armor by running a Shield or Ice Staff then I should be able to.

It make sense. Light Armor reduce roll dodge cost. Easier to dodge things with a piece of cloth, than with a full armor plate.

Barbaran

They are finally trying to create a sort of balance to this mess of a game.
I see alot of changes with pros and cons and at least a glimpse of balance.
They completely changed CP as well, so no way to tell how anything interacts yet

Chelo

Trinotops wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

It shouldn’t cost more but be less effective than blocking in heavy armor, no? That would make sense. Like using a shield blocks more damage.

It would still be less effective than heavy armor blocking even if they removed the increased block cost. Light Armor reducing the amount of damage you can block wouldn't be any better either since it would still be discouraging a player from using a Shield or Ice Staff. Discouraging a player from using X armor type with X weapon ultimately limits player choice and goes against the whole "play how you want" thing ZOS has been going for in combat design.

Let's forget about "play the way you want". That was hell of a lie for advertisement and Devs realize it. Only Skyrim players who never play an MMO before, believed that.

This is an MMO, there's no "play the way you want". MMOs are based in a rock, paper, scissor system. There's no 1 single playstyle that can do everything well, you have pros and cons for each playstyle.

This doesn't mean you can't do whatever build you want, you still can do it but of course you are going to be less effective than someone who is investing in a specific role.

wheem_ESO

Vevvev wrote: »

As a magDK with only 15k stamina, light armor, and a habit of blocking enemy bursts.... this is going to hurt

Indeed.

Blocking is very important in PvP, and almost all Magicka builds in no-CP already have an extremely limited capacity to do it. Now it'll cost more in light armor, as well as having an extra 5-7% incoming damage above and beyond the higher damage you'll already be taking due to substantially lower resistances when compared to heavy. Having 15% cheaper dodge roll is nice and all, but it's not like that's going to allow us to spam it endlessly in order to actually stay alive and hopefully not get 1-shotted by every random Stamina build that's trying to line up a relatively simplistic burst combo.

I don't see how light armor will be at all viable in no-CP PvP next patch, barring some fairly significant changes over the next 5-6 weeks. For CP-enabled fights, certain CP stars revolving around shields might be enough to make it workable, at least for Sorcs. 'Course, if Stamina builds all start picking up some of that same CP, and get an extra +40% damage against your shields...good luck.

MashmalloMan

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

As a magDK with only 15k stamina, light armor, and a habit of blocking enemy bursts.... this is going to hurt

Indeed.

Blocking is very important in PvP, and almost all Magicka builds in no-CP already have an extremely limited capacity to do it. Now it'll cost more in light armor, as well as having an extra 5-7% incoming damage above and beyond the higher damage you'll already be taking due to substantially lower resistances when compared to heavy. Having 15% cheaper dodge roll is nice and all, but it's not like that's going to allow us to spam it endlessly in order to actually stay alive and hopefully not get 1-shotted by every random Stamina build that's trying to line up a relatively simplistic burst combo.

I don't see how light armor will be at all viable in no-CP PvP next patch, barring some fairly significant changes over the next 5-6 weeks. For CP-enabled fights, certain CP stars revolving around shields might be enough to make it workable, at least for Sorcs. 'Course, if Stamina builds all start picking up some of that same CP, and get an extra +40% damage against your shields...good luck.

Light armor is esentially the glass cannon of the game. It makes sense.. plus, if you're doing the typical 5/1/1 setup, then you're only going to only take +4% from martial attacks and -4% from magical attacks, light armor also received a buff from 360 spell resist per piece to 720. So you're becoming a lot more tanky against magical enemies, but slightly less tanky against stamina enemies. It's a net gain.

And what about the buffs to your stamina issues as well? Break free cost reduction and dodge roll cost reduction were points of contention for Light armor users who typically have less stamina to spend, now it costs even less to use these crucial gameplay mechanics.

In the same line of thinking, the changes to what we get on base stats are amazingly helpful for your off resourece, everyone is getting +4k stamina and magicka. For stamina players, our magicka resource being around 10k in no cp was always enough to cast a few skills of utility like Streak, Crit Surge and Dark Deal, so while the extra magicka is useful, it's not really helpful beyond a certain point because it's used to cast a few abilities every once and awhile.

For magicka players, your stamina bar is a lot more important, resulting in life or death scenario's because you can't break free from a stun or roll dodge a Dizzy Swing. Magicka light armor users have been forced into using sets like Shacklebreaker or investing into stamina regen to compensate for this. Not to mention in CP pvp, instead of getting +10% stam regen, you can now have +150 hp/stam/mag regen as a slottable, this is a lot stronger for players with little investment into regen as most magicka players struggle with.

Yes, the 4k stamina on base stats is to help replace the 20% we were getting from cp, however, in my experience the trade is more beneficial the less stamina (or magicka/health) investment you had before. As an off resource, you will see a net gain here too. Even on my pure stamina dps, it seems I'm receiving more stamina than I was on live because I have more freedom with my food choice and you can add another 3600 stamina through cp alone. My magicka on a pvp build that had all tri glyphs and Sugar Skulls food, shot up to like 20k magicka. Magicka that I DO NOT need.. I can't imagine the amount of freedom magicka players are going to have now with these max stamina changes alone.

Also, we're not sure which number for the shield breaker is correct, it states 8% per stage, but current updates by 3% per stage. It seems like the 3% is the correct amount as thats in line with other stars like +3% crit damage when flanking, +2% crit damage, +2% dot/single target/aoe damage, etc. 8% seems like a mess up.

wheem_ESO

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Light armor is esentially the glass cannon of the game. It makes sense.. plus, if you're doing the typical 5/1/1 setup, then you're only going to only take +4% from martial attacks and -4% from magical attacks, light armor also received a buff from 360 spell resist per piece to 720. So you're becoming a lot more tanky against magical enemies, but slightly less tanky against stamina enemies. It's a net gain.

That's fine in theory, but in practice Magicka in light armor is indeed more "glass" than Stamina in either medium or heavy, but significantly less "cannon" as well. I'm far more worried about a Stam Sorc's Dizzying Swing -> split second Medium Attack damage/stun + Crystal Weapon + Vateshran 2h Proc -> Dawnbreaker than I am any Magicka-based burst combo. Sure, a Mag Sorc that gets lucky procs and machineguns out several back-to-back Crystal Frags hurts (sidenote: making that able to proc from itself was a terrible change), but it's not nearly as reliable, and a Mag Sorc is usually far easier to counterpressure and has less room for error.

For the sake of coordinated group fights, no one should be forced into being a glass cannon, since that's typically more of a liability than it is a help in those cases. That's especially true if various changes (like gutting of the proc meta, for instance) ever forces most/all Magicka builds back into light armor in order to have any noticeable damage at all.

Stamina has been dominant for multiple years, and I think these armor changes will make things worse than ever before if the heavy + procs meta ever goes away. Light armor doesn't need extra incoming damage - especially from the most dangerous type of foe in PvP - on top of already having really bad resists and worse active defenses than Stam.

taugrim

MashmalloMan wrote: »

In the same line of thinking, the changes to what we get on base stats are amazingly helpful for your off resourece, everyone is getting +4k stamina and magicka. For stamina players, our magicka resource being around 10k in no cp was always enough to cast a few skills of utility like Streak, Crit Surge and Dark Deal, so while the extra magicka is useful, it's not really helpful beyond a certain point because it's used to cast a few abilities every once and awhile.

For magicka players, your stamina bar is a lot more important, resulting in life or death scenario's because you can't break free from a stun or roll dodge a Dizzy Swing. Magicka light armor users have been forced into using sets like Shacklebreaker or investing into stamina regen to compensate for this. Not to mention in CP pvp, instead of getting +10% stam regen, you can now have +150 hp/stam/mag regen as a slottable, this is a lot stronger for players with little investment into regen as most magicka players struggle with.

Yes, the 4k stamina on base stats is to help replace the 20% we were getting from cp, however, in my experience the trade is more beneficial the less stamina (or magicka/health) investment you had before. As an off resource, you will see a net gain here too. Even on my pure stamina dps, it seems I'm receiving more stamina than I was on live because I have more freedom with my food choice and you can add another 3600 stamina through cp alone. My magicka on a pvp build that had all tri glyphs and Sugar Skulls food, shot up to like 20k magicka. Magicka that I DO NOT need.. I can't imagine the amount of freedom magicka players are going to have now with these max stamina changes alone.

I've played Stamina and Magicka builds in PVP, and even on my Stamina builds I've always come back to using tri-stat food. You need Magicka to buff, CC, and heal.

The generalization that "in PVP Magicka needs Stamina, but Stamina doesn't need Magicka" is not true in my experience. Both builds needs the other resource.

PhoenixGrey

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

As a magDK with only 15k stamina, light armor, and a habit of blocking enemy bursts.... this is going to hurt

Indeed.

Blocking is very important in PvP, and almost all Magicka builds in no-CP already have an extremely limited capacity to do it. Now it'll cost more in light armor, as well as having an extra 5-7% incoming damage above and beyond the higher damage you'll already be taking due to substantially lower resistances when compared to heavy. Having 15% cheaper dodge roll is nice and all, but it's not like that's going to allow us to spam it endlessly in order to actually stay alive and hopefully not get 1-shotted by every random Stamina build that's trying to line up a relatively simplistic burst combo.

I don't see how light armor will be at all viable in no-CP PvP next patch, barring some fairly significant changes over the next 5-6 weeks. For CP-enabled fights, certain CP stars revolving around shields might be enough to make it workable, at least for Sorcs. 'Course, if Stamina builds all start picking up some of that same CP, and get an extra +40% damage against your shields...good luck.

Sweeping changes in CP system and armor ? Magicka classes might have a chance now ? Give me a break !

All I see is the same old cycle with big changes. Mag sorc somehow ends up being competitive with stamina classes with some minor gimmick. Once the gimmick gets nerfed it goes back to being average. Stam NB gets a huge DPS boost for solo PVP now that snipe is nerfed followed by buffs to other stamina classes. No impact for other magicka classes and they continue with their insufferable presence in PVP !

MashmalloMan

taugrim wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

In the same line of thinking, the changes to what we get on base stats are amazingly helpful for your off resourece, everyone is getting +4k stamina and magicka. For stamina players, our magicka resource being around 10k in no cp was always enough to cast a few skills of utility like Streak, Crit Surge and Dark Deal, so while the extra magicka is useful, it's not really helpful beyond a certain point because it's used to cast a few abilities every once and awhile.

For magicka players, your stamina bar is a lot more important, resulting in life or death scenario's because you can't break free from a stun or roll dodge a Dizzy Swing. Magicka light armor users have been forced into using sets like Shacklebreaker or investing into stamina regen to compensate for this. Not to mention in CP pvp, instead of getting +10% stam regen, you can now have +150 hp/stam/mag regen as a slottable, this is a lot stronger for players with little investment into regen as most magicka players struggle with.

Yes, the 4k stamina on base stats is to help replace the 20% we were getting from cp, however, in my experience the trade is more beneficial the less stamina (or magicka/health) investment you had before. As an off resource, you will see a net gain here too. Even on my pure stamina dps, it seems I'm receiving more stamina than I was on live because I have more freedom with my food choice and you can add another 3600 stamina through cp alone. My magicka on a pvp build that had all tri glyphs and Sugar Skulls food, shot up to like 20k magicka. Magicka that I DO NOT need.. I can't imagine the amount of freedom magicka players are going to have now with these max stamina changes alone.

I've played Stamina and Magicka builds in PVP, and even on my Stamina builds I've always come back to using tri-stat food. You need Magicka to buff, CC, and heal.

The generalization that "in PVP Magicka needs Stamina, but Stamina doesn't need Magicka" is not true in my experience. Both builds needs the other resource.

I never said you don't need it. I said you don't need it as much.. Trust me, I'm playing with tri food, tri glyphs, etc. I love having 14k magicka in no cp pvp, but I'm not usually dead if I lose all of it, at least for my play style. Magicka builds across the board are dead if they lose theirs.