Magic Damage Status Effects needs Minor Breach

marius_buys

Why does Physical damage get a penetration status effect (Minor Breach) but not Magica?
How is this balanced in pvp?

Vevvev

Well since magicka abilities cost more this would help sustain in a way. Although this also means Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit further get kicked to the curb...

LeHarrt91

It might be because Magicka gets penetration from Light Armor already and Medium does not.

ESO_Nightingale

Vevvev wrote: »

Well since magicka abilities cost more this would help sustain in a way. Although this also means Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit further get kicked to the curb...

yeah i think that magickasteal is pretty decent on magic damage.

YandereGirlfriend

Likely the thinking is that Light Armor already gives you heaps of Penetration so it's not as needed.

Of course, that ignores that Maces exist and that Medium Armor also buffs your Weapon Damage but I would imagine that was their line of reasoning.

Also, not every Magicka class has native access to many Magic Damage skills, so classes like Necromancer and DK would be left out of the party unless they ran with Elemental Weapon as their spammable.

Wuuffyy

Yea the minor mangle is actually on bleed which was gutted a while back. Plus, I would love if my physical damage give me minor stamina steal lol. That’s be crazy nice!

redspecter23

Could you equip melee weapons and deal physical damage with the light attacks? All the melee weapons are now at least viable on magicka toons. Grab a pair of maces, get your pen bonus there, then also have a chance to inflict the minor breach as well. Isn't there a cp passive to increase that to 100% chance? I'd have to look at it again. Back bar maul, front bar staff? A bit wacky, but it could accomplish the goal. There are likely a few different ways you can deal physical damage on a magicka based toon to get the proc. Caltrops maybe?

Dracane

Minor Magickasteal is one of the most common debuffs. In pve, it gets provided via elemental drain by your supports, same in pvp. Most people use elemental drain either way.

This would have been a great chance to introduce minor stamina steal for stamina builds and minor breach for magicka builds. This is clearly another catering to stamina.

Dracane

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

It might be because Magicka gets penetration from Light Armor already and Medium does not.

Well, Medium gets 3300 penetration from mauls and maces on top of the weapon damage provided by medium armor. This patch just solidied Mauls as the superior pick. Swords have been made even weaker and axes are more a defensive pick now.
Spell resistance is generally higher than physical too, countering the penetration granted by light armor.

marius_buys

Ye so while Jonnyboy Autohealin-OrcStamden is hitting me for 15K at a time with a sharpened Maul auto proccing minor breach my High Elf Highly Spell Resistant Sorc is going to minor magica steal out sustain that with nerfed PvP area heals? Get real, lol

Maul +3000 pen
Sharpened +3000 pen
Status Effect Minor breach +3000 pen
Deep Fissure +6000pen

Means he is coming hard at +15K penetration from cast literary 1 ability. Balanced much?

Better call Saul to go get some lube for the incoming butthurt

marius_buys

It's more like rock vs paperthin armor

wheem_ESO

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

It might be because Magicka gets penetration from Light Armor already and Medium does not.

Without some fairly major changes over the course of the next several weeks of PTS, nobody is going to be wearing light armor in no-CP PvP. Looking over some of the new CP, I could potentially see it being something worthwhile on Sorcs using shields in CP-enabled fights, as long as there aren't too many stamina builds running the CP to get +40% damage against those shields. In Battlegrounds, though, light armor is just begging to get 1-shot by any number of different stamina setups.

And as already mentioned above, Minor Magickasteal is already a really commonly used debuff in PvP, especially for anyone using a Vateshran Destruction Staff. Having that be the new status effect for magick damage is a total waste, and it needs to be changed to something else.

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Yea the minor mangle is actually on bleed which was gutted a while back. Plus, I would love if my physical damage give me minor stamina steal lol. That’s be crazy nice!

Rending Slashes with Master Dual Wield weapons are by no means weak. That basically turns it into a cheap spammable with solid up-front damage, snare, and a DOT attached. If nothing changes from this PTS to live, it'll also have Minor Mangle alongside that, and will still pair well with the Way of Fire set, adding another 1.6k'ish damage every 2 seconds in no-CP.

Dracane

I hope they will decide to grant magic damage something more useful and rare. Minor Magickasteal is so damn common in all content and not really what we needed. I had hoped for something more exciting and actually useful.

Might as well just have it grant no status effect, but instead increase the damage the status effect itself deals.

ESO_Nightingale

Dracane wrote: »

I hope they will decide to grant magic damage something more useful and rare. Minor Magickasteal is so damn common in all content and not really what we needed. I had hoped for something more exciting and actually useful.

Might as well just have it grant no status effect, but instead increase the damage the status effect itself deals.

Well it is really nice on pvp builds that have major breach already and don't have room for elemental drain.

Derra

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Well since magicka abilities cost more this would help sustain in a way. Although this also means Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit further get kicked to the curb...

yeah i think that magickasteal is pretty decent on magic damage.

it is in fact not - because magica classes have virtually no access to major breach except ele drain. which already provides magica steal.

ESO_Nightingale

Derra wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Well since magicka abilities cost more this would help sustain in a way. Although this also means Elemental Drain and Siphon Spirit further get kicked to the curb...

yeah i think that magickasteal is pretty decent on magic damage.

it is in fact not - because magica classes have virtually no access to major breach except ele drain. which already provides magica steal.

Fair point. I'm a magden main. Probably the only solo magic damage class that does get major breach. Maybe the status will change.

Dracane

If Overcharged would directly return a bit of ressources, that would be more useful. Though slapping such a common and easily accessable debuff on magic damage, is just boring and uninspired.

Well, stamina usually gets the juicy and fun stuff. We are used to it I guess.

Wuuffyy

wheem_ESO wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

It might be because Magicka gets penetration from Light Armor already and Medium does not.

Without some fairly major changes over the course of the next several weeks of PTS, nobody is going to be wearing light armor in no-CP PvP. Looking over some of the new CP, I could potentially see it being something worthwhile on Sorcs using shields in CP-enabled fights, as long as there aren't too many stamina builds running the CP to get +40% damage against those shields. In Battlegrounds, though, light armor is just begging to get 1-shot by any number of different stamina setups.

And as already mentioned above, Minor Magickasteal is already a really commonly used debuff in PvP, especially for anyone using a Vateshran Destruction Staff. Having that be the new status effect for magick damage is a total waste, and it needs to be changed to something else.

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Yea the minor mangle is actually on bleed which was gutted a while back. Plus, I would love if my physical damage give me minor stamina steal lol. That’s be crazy nice!

Rending Slashes with Master Dual Wield weapons are by no means weak. That basically turns it into a cheap spammable with solid up-front damage, snare, and a DOT attached. If nothing changes from this PTS to live, it'll also have Minor Mangle alongside that, and will still pair well with the Way of Fire set, adding another 1.6k'ish damage every 2 seconds in no-CP.

No one said anything about rending but if you aren’t happy about it, advocate for a change on that one item to physical damage and see how that goes?

wheem_ESO

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

It might be because Magicka gets penetration from Light Armor already and Medium does not.

Without some fairly major changes over the course of the next several weeks of PTS, nobody is going to be wearing light armor in no-CP PvP. Looking over some of the new CP, I could potentially see it being something worthwhile on Sorcs using shields in CP-enabled fights, as long as there aren't too many stamina builds running the CP to get +40% damage against those shields. In Battlegrounds, though, light armor is just begging to get 1-shot by any number of different stamina setups.

And as already mentioned above, Minor Magickasteal is already a really commonly used debuff in PvP, especially for anyone using a Vateshran Destruction Staff. Having that be the new status effect for magick damage is a total waste, and it needs to be changed to something else.

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Yea the minor mangle is actually on bleed which was gutted a while back. Plus, I would love if my physical damage give me minor stamina steal lol. That’s be crazy nice!

Rending Slashes with Master Dual Wield weapons are by no means weak. That basically turns it into a cheap spammable with solid up-front damage, snare, and a DOT attached. If nothing changes from this PTS to live, it'll also have Minor Mangle alongside that, and will still pair well with the Way of Fire set, adding another 1.6k'ish damage every 2 seconds in no-CP.

No one said anything about rending but if you aren’t happy about it, advocate for a change on that one item to physical damage and see how that goes?

With the current PTS change to axes, the only bleeds left in the game for players are Rending Slashes, Carve, and the proc on Werewolf Berserker morph. Frankly, I don't think any of those 3 sources of Bleed damage - at least when we take Master weapons into account - should have Minor Mangle stacked on top of what they're already able to do on the live servers.

You may consider losing 100% armor penetration being "gutted," but that doesn't mean that the bleed-applying abilities aren't still extremely strong with the right gear setup.

MashmalloMan

marius_buys wrote: »

Ye so while Jonnyboy Autohealin-OrcStamden is hitting me for 15K at a time with a sharpened Maul auto proccing minor breach my High Elf Highly Spell Resistant Sorc is going to minor magica steal out sustain that with nerfed PvP area heals? Get real, lol

Maul +3000 pen
Sharpened +3000 pen
Status Effect Minor breach +3000 pen
Deep Fissure +6000pen

Means he is coming hard at +15K penetration from cast literary 1 ability. Balanced much?

Better call Saul to go get some lube for the incoming butthurt

Sub Assault does not provide major breach and light/heavy attacks do not proc status effects.