Stop dropping newbies in DLC zones please

Sergykid

if you sell a chapter based on nostalgia, you better throw it in the player's face right off the boat. Don't forget it's just a business, player's information on the game is not top concerns of the management.

joerginger

The game may as well start a new player out in a new zone, I don't think that is the real problem. But instead of dropping of the character in the wild new world to die and die again, the player should be presented with an option to move to theoriginal main quest, i.e. the solo Coldharbour part. Sending the Hooded Figure also into the DLC starting territories might be one way, a menu might be a different approach.

When I started playing, the different quest marker for the "main quest" and the zone guides hadn't been put into the game yet, so it was quite a bit confusing to understand what I'm supposed to do because the game presents all quests as equivalent, no matter if they're a crafting, delve or world boss daily, of part of the many main quests, a guild mission, a side quest or a pledge or whatever.

The introduction of special markers for the various main quests was a great improvement, but I think there should be a little bit more differentiation so the player knows what kind of quests they are about to pick up. The solo Coldharbour quest should really stand out as it is also the "official" introduction to the next important questline, i.e. the faction story. The game already uses colours for the three factions, so one idea might be to paint the faction storyline questmarkers in the colour of the respective faction. That could reduce the likeliness to accept a quest from Cadwell's silver or gold before you even complete your own faction's questline.

cyberjanet

For me, it's very sad that you can get to CP810 without ever doing the main storyline.

Nordic__Knights

cyberjanet wrote: »

For me, it's very sad that you can get to CP810 without ever doing the main storyline.

on pc i havent done any story quest main or dlc only guild and dungeon mixed with crafting and im 786cp with 7 cp toons and 3 non cp toons

Recapitated

Kwoung wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

I give you props for running a guild that helps new players though. Its much like a school teacher who has to impart the same information over and over, day after day. Takes a lot of patience and maturity to do so. /salute

I have AWSOME officers! They all have a specialty they are great at, and help our members in those areas. Tonights Sunspire & Cloudrest trials were 75% new player, most of which had never done a trial before, Not a single wipe, my officers ROCK!

First of all, I logged in mostly to say hats off to you and your officers.

Second, I basically agree with you. I get the motivation, but base game is actually kind of difficult when you have no relevant game experience; the DLC zones are chronologically inappropriate and arguably too difficult. Skill points are a big deal too.

It doesn't seem like the solution is that complicated. Before creating their characters, players should see some text about their character (a bit of race lore, alliance war faction, political center, geographical center) and then know about their spawn options: for most of them that's base game, Vvardenfell, Greymoor. Explain that Coldharbour is the bread and butter questline. To make this ZOS-friendly, also tell them about Summerset and Elsweyr in the crown store.

Tell them a little bit about what's happening in each region, let them pick, and tell them how and when they can get to the others should they choose to try them out. It doesn't matter too much where they go; the point is they'll know that these main quests are around and it'll be on their mind that that's recommended content for new players.

Scardan

Kwoung wrote: »

Let them experience the game right, most don't even know their starter city, the quests, etc... They are dying repeatedly to Harrowstorms and world bosses instead... its not a great newbie experience by any means. I run a guild that helps new players, and I can't tell you how many have been frustrated getting dropped into Vardenfell or Skyrim and struggling to finish the zones, those are NOT newbie zones! Not to mention, they do not lead you to the harborage quest line, one of the most important lines in the game.

What is frustrating about Vvardenfell? New players are scaled, quests are doable from lvl 1, all crafting stations standing in one place, banker and writs are nearby. Vivec is insanely good starting sity. I had no problems at all, besides dying in public dungeons at lvl 20 no cp in really bad gear and this is normal and how it should be.

I wish they just stop to throw you into your last purchased chapter/DLC and just throw everyone into Vvardenfell with all this different tutorials assigned randomly to characters.

drunkendx

As fairly new player I agree with OP.

Harrowstorms were VERY unpleasant surprise, then I got to dolmens and was glad they were not as harrowing as harrowstorms (pun intended)

after month and a half of playing I gotta say DLC zones should never be starter zones since they are significantly harder than rest of game, and most newbies are gonna get multiple "slaps" playing them.

ZOS, is that message you wanna give new players?

aetherial_heavenn

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

I tried to get my dad to play and he quit for the same reason. It’s too difficult for new players to follow where they should be going and what quests they should be doing. This game needs better quest distinction. All we have is a black/white quest marker and a slightly different white/black quest marker. Adding the option to change main quests to different colors would help with confusion.

Once upon a time, in a land far away, in another game I played, the main story had a huge glowy firey gold ring over the heads of the main story quest bestowers. It also warned players when roaming threats (harrowstorm difficulty roaming mobs) were nearby and that they needed a group of exceptional fellows (ie capped) to fight it. I agree the game could do with much better quest indicators throughout.

That franchise has a very well known main story. Despite that their on-ramp for new areas made the main quest so shiny that you wanted to take it despite being in new area, and it auto ported you to the bestower to continue in the main starting areas. Even the most the plot uninformed people or those who just wanted to see, for example, mounted combat or w/e new freshly minted marketing candy was on offer, were all at least aware the main story and that a certain wizard and Bree were easy to get to. The game had many issues with various expansions, but the story telling and on ramps were well designed for a very long time before it became very linear. You had to try hard to miss the starters even if you skipped the tutorial.

Marking the main story bestowers clearly (but please, not like Stuga) , offering a clearly spelled out choice even before the tutorial, and many of the other suggestions here would help.

aetherial_heavenn

Some further thoughts.

I don't think modern players, even newer players of ESO are as narrative driven as we were in that game I alluded to in my earlier post, so I think many people will always want to play the new shiny area first, regardless of being quest driven type players. Those players will think the new zone main quest is the main quest. They will have no clue about guild quests or the actual main quest until they accidentally bump into it or they join a players guild. As verified in posts above. This is underselling the narrative, fantasy, sticky element of a fantasy RPG. Your 'toon' becoming a character/avatar/ alternative self. IMO this is what keeps people in older games. Marketing dept and creatives would be wise to stress this part as the game ages. This group are often your long term 'whales' who will keep playing and payying regardlless of the latest block buster release. They/we have a lot invested in staying.

Experienced combat driven gamers who get their asses handed to them in the newest area will ask in zone, get told 'level your skills at dolmens, do dungeons for undaunted, farm fighters guild/xp at skyreach, and buy/craft/farm x gear for BiS'. A week later they are doing Harrowstorms successfully. I have played with people in trials who have never done the main story on any character although they've maxed their crafting and have perfected gear. Purely combat driven MMO players aren't going to seek out the story for the story's sake. Vets aren't going to repeat it for skill points unless they have to. Their 'stickiness' comes from challenging content/ combat systems and rewards. The main story skill points and weapon were meant to attract and to reward these non quester type players, too. I'd update with a truly mythic weapon as the main quest reward for us, as a start.

It gets trickier every expansion balancing content chewers, combat driven players, story driven questers, experienced or not, especially as games age and new/old players' needs/wants/abilites/gear diverge.

alanmatillab16_ESO

The screwy thing is unless you take the quest from the benefactor technically you should not be able to rezz since that revolves around you not having a soul which unless you do that questline (the main quest) you still HAVE it.

Faiza

So, maybe I'm biased because the zone I started in is my favorite zone/storyline in the entire game, but personally I think if I had got dropped in the middle of Khenarthi's Roost a year ago, I'm not sure I would've been as in love with the game at least not immediately. Elsweyr has a certain je ne sais pas that others zones really don't. And the challenge of dragons and world bosses made me feel determined to make my character better.

ArchMikem

The game is being advertised with its most recent chapter. West Skyrim is what new players are seeing when they buy the game, so ZOS wants to drop them into the new shiny that drew them to the purchase.

I bet a topic that was brought up at a meeting back at Vvardefell, was if it was Morrowind that made someone buy the game, but then saw they started at some Elf island on the other side of the map, they'd be confused and may even stop playing if they couldn't find their way to the new shiny.

Tandor

All it needs is for the Hooded Figure to be placed at the end of the tutorial in any new content, rather than only appearing when you've worked out which is your home city and how to get there. It's not like they have to redesign the whole game!

katanagirl1

It’s been a long time since I started my first character, but I seem to remember starting out in Coldharbour. That makes the most sense to me. As it is now you can play the whole game hearing NPCs say you have no soul and not have a clue what they are talking about if you haven’t done the main quest.

Kwoung

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It’s been a long time since I started my first character, but I seem to remember starting out in Coldharbour. That makes the most sense to me. As it is now you can play the whole game hearing NPCs say you have no soul and not have a clue what they are talking about if you haven’t done the main quest.

Yeah, me too. When I started I was escaping the prison in Coldharbor. "The Boat" was what picked me up out of the water after falling from the sky apparently....and the capt dumped me on a newbie isle where I started my adventure. I do not see a reason that needed to change. They could however, give a choice of newbie area after the Coldharbor escape, you decide if you want to be in the original lore zone, Elsewyr, Vardenfell, Summerset or etc....

For those saying the graphics are out of date in the old starter area, they could simply have re-written it with updated info and redid the graphics, instead of creating numerous new tutorials, most of which will never be seen again.

Pauwer

Think they know how to program it so that you can choose where to start? Hmmm hmmmm

Sinolai

Another problem is that the starter zones are filled with quest NPCs that will take you to the DLC zones. New player gets quickly lost when a moment ago he was following a street dog in daggerfall and then suddenly someone sents them to a journey across the land to investigate mysterious disappearances and after 2 hours they find themselves at the shores of Summerset, then Artaeum and then another journey across the world to close time breaches.

Grianasteri

Totally agree.

Ive always thought this was a really stupid feature. Start new players/characters in their home zone, not least cos that's where the story kicks off.

At the very least, players should be prompted with a message giving an option to start in home region and explain thats how to access the main story(ies) and also give an option to start in the latest DLC zone, again explaining what this means (i.e that for main story(ies) head to "x" region.

renne

Agreed you should get to choose where to start. It would also mean that you could choose to experience each of the different tutorial levels too, instead of an entire quest being made obsolete once a new expansion comes out.

josiahva

Synthwavius wrote: »

They would need to bring old zones to modern standards first. Many people would uninstall right away if Glenumbra or Betnikh was their first experience

Not sure what you are talking about...the new zones aren't any better than the old ones. ZOS may think they have improved their writing...they are wrong. Like all video game writing...it was horrible at launch and remains horrible now. As far as visually, Vvardenfell may be more visually interesting than someplace like Betnikh...but the same could be said for Rivenspire. No, new players need to start at the beginning of the main quest...there is nothing preventing them taking a wayshrine to whatever the latest content is if they so choose, but as it is ever since they started these "chapters" new players are left without a good starting point.

Katahdin

cyberjanet wrote: »

For me, it's very sad that you can get to CP810 without ever doing the main storyline.

Although I would agree with questioning why are they here, not everyone plays for the story.
Having choices in how to level up is a good thing imo.

mfcostacampos

I actually put up a poll a while back trying to show the devs the number of people supporting this.
There were quite a few votes (400), but not sure it got any attention lol

The most interesting thing is that only 1% of people who voted want the game to stay as is.
EVERYONE else doesn't like that you're forced to start in the tutorial for the latest zone you own.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/510995/starting-zone-how-would-you-rather-start-your-game/p1

katanagirl1

mfcostacampos wrote: »

I actually put up a poll a while back trying to show the devs the number of people supporting this.
There were quite a few votes (400), but not sure it got any attention lol

The most interesting thing is that only 1% of people who voted want the game to stay as is.
EVERYONE else doesn't like that you're forced to start in the tutorial for the latest zone you own.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/510995/starting-zone-how-would-you-rather-start-your-game/p1

Sorry I missed that or I would have voted too.

I like the way Wrothgar was done where you got an invitation to go there whenever it was convenient for you, but I think that was when I purchased the dlc. I believe Vvardenfell was the same way as well.

Just start players in Coldharbour and then in their base game faction area and give them a quest to go to the newest area whenever they want to. Meanwhile they can start the Harborage main quest and their faction quests, and will be in the right place to do the Fighters and Mages Guild quests as well.

Whenever I start a new character I travel by wayshrine or boat or whatever to get back to the faction area, but even though I know where to go it is still a huge pain to get there.

danno8

Foto1 wrote: »

I think everything works as intended. newbie buys ESO: Greymour because he wants to go to skyrim. He does not buy ESO: Auridon or ESO: Stounfalls. Plus, the new locations look better than the vanilla locations developed 9 years ago.

You can't really know that for sure though. Most people get the base game, Morrowind, Summerset, and Elsweyr together with Greymoor because it is a far better deal than just buying the base game.

Starting them at the beginning makes sense, with the option to jump forward after the intro if they choose, rather than starting them at the end and leaving it up to them to try to figure out where the heck the beginning is suppose to be.

Remember, for a new player saying stuff like "go to your home capital" is not very useful.

Chrysa1is

The old ways were so much better. Cadwell's Silver and Gold, earning your way into AD and EP territory and doing their quest lines. New players certainly don't get to appreciate the game the way day one players did. It is far too overwhelming for new players now because they can go anywhere when they want.

Id say that the old ways should apply to all new players/characters until they reach level 50. But then, that will upset the neckbeards who already have cp810 characters.

mfcostacampos

katanagirl1 wrote: »

mfcostacampos wrote: »

I actually put up a poll a while back trying to show the devs the number of people supporting this.
There were quite a few votes (400), but not sure it got any attention lol

The most interesting thing is that only 1% of people who voted want the game to stay as is.
EVERYONE else doesn't like that you're forced to start in the tutorial for the latest zone you own.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/510995/starting-zone-how-would-you-rather-start-your-game/p1

Sorry I missed that or I would have voted too.

I like the way Wrothgar was done where you got an invitation to go there whenever it was convenient for you, but I think that was when I purchased the dlc. I believe Vvardenfell was the same way as well.

Just start players in Coldharbour and then in their base game faction area and give them a quest to go to the newest area whenever they want to. Meanwhile they can start the Harborage main quest and their faction quests, and will be in the right place to do the Fighters and Mages Guild quests as well.

Whenever I start a new character I travel by wayshrine or boat or whatever to get back to the faction area, but even though I know where to go it is still a huge pain to get there.

You think you can still vote and reply to the thread - let's bring it back!

IsharaMeradin

I just want organic links between the DLC and base game. Only Wrothgar, Craglorn, Gold Coast and Hew's Bane have actual quests that send players to the zone in order to start them. The rest have prologues which just hint at a need to go there but don't actually direct the player to go.

Each DLC area should have a quest that sends one to the main land where they can be approached by the hooded figure. Each DLC starter area should have a quest from the main land which interrupts the player's travel and puts them into that DLCs tutorial.

I would have loved for my pre-existing characters to have gotten caught in a shipwreck and captured on their way to Vvardenfel. To be captured by the sload and tossed into a mind prison on my way to Summerset. To have the caravan attacked by a dragon and wake up in the monastery in N. Elsweyr.

I would have loved for my characters that started in DLC areas to have been given a task to go to the mainland. Cause without that, there is nothing to do once that zone is complete. No direction at all.

GreenhaloX

Ahh.. sure beats popping up in cold ass Bleakrock!

Darios_Heliodromos

As someone who finished most of the main quests/storylines before the Morrowind DLC was released, I have always wondered how awkward and weird it must be for new players to find themselves initially dropped into Elsweyr or Western Skyrim THEN somehow make their way over to the vanilla newbie content of Khenarthi's Roost or Bleakrock Isle where the storyline quality is almost elementary.

Thechuckage

The entire elder scrolls franchise is really know for the story. Well, that and glitches. If the story gets broken up to hell and back, a large part of the draw is being hurt.

Look at pretty much any other game, there is a linear story to be found. Side stories as well, but there is always the main story to follow. But here you have a disjointed mess that quite literally tosses a newbie into the end of the story with absolutely no organic means of telling them its the latest chapter.

Might as well pickup the last book of a series, read the last chapter and expect to know what on gods green earth is going on. At the very least, there should be a story guide, much like the skill advisor. Something in game that tells players where they are in the narrative, so they can see everything chronologically or push into the narratively hot mess that jumping to the end inevitably provides.