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Recent PvP changes

  • Pauwer
    Pauwer
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    Ye, it makes sense that these changes only benefit organized groups, which is like maybe 10% of cyro players. Which i guess would point a finger on these "streamers". My question is that why anyone would watch such crap players that they need this to score kills? I can see better gameplay on my own screen :)
  • Tigor
    Tigor
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    Healers are only succesfull in a group, when a healer wants to join a full group with to few healers, then friendly ask someone to step out. Healers are wanted.
    EP Decimation Elite - Ravenwatch EU/PC - the crown to follow
  • ThePedge
    ThePedge
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    ThePedge wrote: »
    ThePedge wrote: »
    ThePedge wrote: »
    ThePedge wrote: »
    2. Very good change.
    I will disagree. Strongly.

    This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

    It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.
    No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

    ^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... :open_mouth: ).

    Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

    Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

    Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

    You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

    You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

    You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

    They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

    ThePedge
    "You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective"

    I disagree. In my opinion the change to disallow ungrouped healing differs from all other changes like skill buffs/nerfs etc in that it makes a certain role/playstyle impossible not simply ineffective.

    Prior to the change to healing, if you wanted to play as healer or hybrid dps/healer but not be in a group (for which there are many reasons, for examples see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7067439#Comment_7067439 which I'm sure you have read but linking it for anyone else who is interested) then you could. And you could pick any race/class build you want but it would vary in effectiveness, as you point out.

    So yes, I could be a redguard nightblade healer if I wanted. Sure it might not be optimal but I could do it and still perform the role that I want to.
    And for many they would be happy to do that because how they have fun in the game is tied to the role they play and the type of character they play so they are willing to give up a bit of effectiveness or have a harder time as long as they can meet those things.

    Following the healing change it is basically impossible to play as a healer without being in a group. Not ineffective, but impossible.
    So if that style of play is how a player primarily enjoyed playing, then they are out of luck. It's not like they can choose to do it but be less effective, they simply can no longer choose to play like that at all.

    In my case I am one of those players. I was happy to keep playing the way I wanted despite it becoming comparatively weaker over time (especially compared to others). My preferred character in Cyrodiil is a hybrid dps/healer melee magblade and even though I am less successful on it than other options its still the character I want to play. I don't mind that its less effective, for me its about having fun. But, for many of the reasons listed in the previously linked posts, I prefer to play ungrouped. Primarily, I enjoy the freedom and independence it brings, but still like interacting and being able to assist with my fellow alliance-mates when and how I choose.

    The healing change prevents this character from functioning how I want it to. Could I change the build or join groups to address this? Sure, but that would mean the character is no longer fulfilling the role and feel want it to. I would no longer have fun playing it.
    So I don't. Play that is. Or hardly at all since the change. Not that not playing is to make point or anything, but simply: The change means I no longer enjoy playing like I used to, so I don't feel the desire to play.

    So while I get that this change may not negatively impact you, in fact it may indirectly benefit your rate of success because it has disadvantaged some of your opponents, please understand that for others out there like myself it has meant we can no longer enjoy the game as we previously could. Consider what your position would be if ZOS made a some other restriction that simply made your preferred playstyle(s) impossible.

    Plus I just don't see what the benefits to the game as a whole are.
    Performance? ZOS have said this wasn't improved. Beyond the comment by ZOS while there have been comments both ways its all anecdotal and it doesn't really seem like anything has changed.
    My smart heals now always target me when solo? Surely there is a better way to achieve this (ie: the skills themselves), rather than making skills no longer function as they are described or were designed.
    What else is there? Faction stack is weakened, groups are empowered? This just seems like a nerf or buff depending on your playstyle so is a bit of a wash.

    I guess that's why I don't understand the outrage.
    "Solo" healing makes no sense, because if you're alone then who are you healing?
    If you're with a big group of your own faction, just join their group, no? Problem avoided.

    Imagine thinking that 12 players is a "big group" for PVP healers who used to be able to heal every ally near them on the battlefield.

    Problem not avoided, when we consider the problem that healers are outraged to be massively nerfed and forced into limited groups.

    But maybe I'm mistaken and those big primetime fights over Chalman, BRK, and Aleswell were actually just a 12 v 12.

    [Quoted post was removed]

    Are you continuing to misrepresent the healing nerf because your 4-man squad benefits from ZOS nerfing their opponents?

    Ungrouped healers went from being able to heal ally near them to no one else.

    Grouped healers went from being able to heal every ally near them to only 11 other people.

    That's not dramatics. That's simply what happened. [snip]

    "Just join a group" doesn't avoid or solve either problem when we look at this from the perspective of a PVP healer who wants to support ALL their nearby allies, not that of a 4-man small scale PVPer who typically fights by themselves and who's opponents got nerfed by ZOS.

    "I don't understand the outrage."

    Well, no. You don't. To quote Upton Sinclair, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

    [Edited to remove Baiting]

    Joining a group solves all problems.
    Healing has been balanced so that it only affects group members, therefor if you want to heal, join a group.

    [snip]

    [Edited to remove Baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 10, 2021 2:59PM
  • udaba
    udaba
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    Its like Zenimax wants to destory its game ... I hope one day they fix the PvP ...
    PC/EU 1000 CP+++
    Dark Elf - Sorcerer
  • Faded
    Faded
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    At this point, I'm elaborating more for any Devs who might possibly read this feedback.

    [detailed feedback]

    Devs, I hope that you consider the impact of your behavioral changes. And if you decide that these consequences are not merely acceptable but indeed desirable, then I have one request:

    I'd like to know, in detail, exactly what were the behavioral changes you liked so much that you expect me to be happy to sacrifice my PVP healer's ability to heal her whole faction to achieve those changes.

    It would be nice to know what was so awesome this seemed like a good trade. I have a feeling we're going to be unimpressed, if they ever bother to say.

    Imagine spending time and money on something developed by Zenimax ever again.
  • Wolfpaw
    Wolfpaw
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    Pauwer wrote: »
    Ye, it makes sense that these changes only benefit organized groups, which is like maybe 10% of cyro players. Which i guess would point a finger on these "streamers". My question is that why anyone would watch such crap players that they need this to score kills? I can see better gameplay on my own screen :)

    My guess...

    Healing & group restrictions is a beta test for a upcoming mid size new PvP zone.

    The group & healing restrictions don't make sense in the Cyrodiil enviroment.

    Healing and group restriction has done nothing to improve performance.

    The "behavorial" excuse is a joke.

    Multi target/AOE damage stays unrestricted.

    A change in group size is unnecessary with the healing restrictions.

    The many new types of Cyrodiil performance issues remind me of beta stress tests to collect additional data beyond the norm.

    One of the best ways to reduce performance problem in one area is to reduce the amount of players in that area.

    To reduce the amount of players in that area & keep them in the game is to create another area.

    Sewers is not really a popular PvP or PvE map, & ZOS gave it away free...PvE players enjoy the pve side of it, but hate the pvp. PvP players dislike it (except WW packs, NB's, tel var farmers) as you can't fart w/o hitting pve.

    BG's are for the players that enjoy small-scale no cp pvp.

    So where does that leave us? A new mid-size Cyrodiil-like 12player group pvp map. Alliance war? All out GvG map? No allegiance open pvp zone? I hope it's so!

    Anet did the same thing with WvWvW, if I remember correctly, with the Edge of the Mists map.
    Edited by Wolfpaw on January 9, 2021 7:51PM
  • Beaverton
    Beaverton
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    Waseem wrote: »
    My favorite PvP guild relies on the group of 24 players.

    we always had the healer, DD, and tank and in addition to that,
    we had the hilarious jokes DD
    we had the healer who heals the healer
    we had the scout
    we had the siege guinea pig

    NOW IT'S ALL DOWN TO 12

    NO MORE PROPER COMMUNICATION IN GUILD DISCUSSIONS
    MARGINALLY LESS ORGANIZATION
    PVP IS NO LONGER FUN
    BUT A STRESS INDUCING EXPERIENCE THAT WE'RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT

    I only count 7 roles there so you have space for a few more critical spots:

    zone chat spammer
    designated salt distributor
    map guy (I'm not sure why it is a guy but it always has been in my groups)
    teabagger
    secondary teabagger

    That brings it to 12. For 24 do you just double it or are there more important roles out there?
    Chook (fill in the blank) or Chookana (likewise): I learn more by dying so teach me some more!
  • ZOS_ConnorG
    Greetings all,

    After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

    You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.
    Staff Post
  • Agalloch
    Agalloch
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    [quote=

    Anet did the same thing with WvWvW, if I remember correctly, with the Edge of the Mists map.[/quote]

    GW2 still have WvW with no restrictions...no healing/damage/aoe ..etc nerfs . I play WvW in GW2 when I'd like to play Cyrodiil in ESO . Since november 2020 when ZOS butchered Cyrodiil I preffer WvW in GW2 ..because you feel like you aid the whole faction ( world..server) not only 12 people. I hate playing a huge battleground map as Cyrodiil tranformed in since november 2020. I hope all the changes will be reverted. I want to play PVP in Cyrodiil again.

    English is not my native language.

  • Wolfpaw
    Wolfpaw
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    Agalloch wrote: »
    [quote=

    Anet did the same thing with WvWvW, if I remember correctly, with the Edge of the Mists map.

    GW2 still have WvW with no restrictions...no healing/damage/aoe ..etc nerfs . I play WvW in GW2 when I'd like to play Cyrodiil in ESO . Since november 2020 when ZOS butchered Cyrodiil I preffer WvW in GW2 ..because you feel like you aid the whole faction ( world..server) not only 12 people. I hate playing a huge battleground map as Cyrodiil tranformed in since november 2020. I hope all the changes will be reverted. I want to play PVP in Cyrodiil again.

    English is not my native language.

    [/quote]

    I meant the opening of a new pvp map to relieve stress from the main map.

    I agree with you, Anet has done a much better job with largescale pvp...everything pvp.

    No apologies necessarily, it's just a video game forum 😉.
  • Ryath_Waylander
    Ryath_Waylander
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    Waseem wrote: »
    Hmm and are you a healer pray tell?

    I am a player, apparently speaking on behalf the thousands of players who already quit PvP after playing for YEARS thanks to reduction in groups size

    Hi @Waseem sorry for the miscommunication. My comment was directed to the one immediately prior to mine by "The Pedge" who has mentioned before on another thread that they are a regular 4 person group and happy with the changes.

    [snip]

    [Edited to remove Rude Comments]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 17, 2021 4:22PM
  • DUTCH_REAPER
    DUTCH_REAPER
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    before we revert or keep changes can we fix the servers first?
  • Starshadw
    Starshadw
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    Godspeed wrote: »
    It’s sad how this game started out as one of if not the best pvp mmo on the market.

    Then the lighting patch came. Now a few years and many changes including the most recent later. ESO is now the worst mmo pvp wise on the market.

    Yeah, I mean, I can understand the bind ZOS was in. Can you really be a great PVP MMO if your system is publicly vulnerable to hacking and cheating? Meteor spam makes for bad publicity.

    It's just a pity that their solution of moving everything server-side seems to have been very much less than ideal in the long term.

    And sadly, it didn't actually do anything to stop the hacking and cheating. *sad, cynical laughter*
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