Overwatch did something clever. Play support - skip DD line.

Grandchamp1989

Like most games who run support roles Overwatch was suffering from the same problem as ESO.
Too many damage dealers, not enough supports.

So they implemented a system where if you play a support role you are rewarded with a ticket. Your ticket is a one-time consumable you can use to be put infront of the DD line the next time you que as a damage dealer.

It's a reward system - if you help the community by tanking/healing you're rewarded with a near instant que for your next run as damage dealer. Win-Win

They would have to implement measures to make sure a healer got an AOE heal and Tank is slotting a taunt of course - otherwise people would fake role just to farm tickets.

But I like the idea.

Help the community - branch out a little - learn new roles and get rewarded.

BXR_Lonestar

Not sure this would help much in ESO tbh. A lot of people don't come into the game and sit in que for dungeons all day. Sometimes they just want to run one specific dungeon, and thus, once they're done, they don't re-que that day. So in the context of ESO, a ticket for expedited matchmaking might not be much of an incentive to actually play support.

This also doesn't resolve the other problems with the support role, those being that 1) in most content, it is more useful to have a third damage dealer to burn things down faster than it is to have a dedicated healer (largely due to OHK Mechanics IMO); and 2) support roles tend to bear all the blame for when things go wrong, even when it is not their faults, so most people tend to just avoid playing those roles (tank moreso than healer). Until you address these two issues, IMO, I don't think you'll address any of the matchmaking issues in ESO.

magnusthorek

I like it. Would incentivize people to play other roles too

ImmortalCX

This would doubly reward those people who queue as fake tanks and fake healers.

1) They queue as fake healer.

2) They get a token for an instant queue as DD next time they play.

Everyone would be fake tanking and fake healing. Honest people would never get dungeons because the tokens would double/triple their wait times.. forcing them to fake tank or fake heal.

This would break things even further.

OlumoGarbag

Something similar to that would be nice. But that would mean ESO needs to measure the tanks taunt% and the healers healing%.

An alternative to that would be to give healers and tanks better random dungeon rewards. 12 transmutes for normal, 15 for vet and a slight chance for a gold mat/ alchemy ingredients

Malkiv

It works with Overwatch, because kits are tied to characters. If you lobby Mercy, then you are kitted for heals - period. There's no way to lobby Mercy but kit for pure damage.

That's not how it works in ESO - you can queue as a healer role with a DPS; You're allowed to pick your own kit that is independent of the role.

So all you're doing now is creating competition in the already saturated DPS queue by giving a get-ahead-free card. Not every ESO player queues for dungeons, but every Overwatch player does queue for a lobby - because that's the only feature Overwatch has.

Jeremy

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Like most games who run support roles Overwatch was suffering from the same problem as ESO.
Too many damage dealers, not enough supports.

So they implemented a system where if you play a support role you are rewarded with a ticket. Your ticket is a one-time consumable you can use to be put infront of the DD line the next time you que as a damage dealer.

It's a reward system - if you help the community by tanking/healing you're rewarded with a near instant que for your next run as damage dealer. Win-Win

They would have to implement measures to make sure a healer got an AOE heal and Tank is slotting a taunt of course - otherwise people would fake role just to farm tickets.

But I like the idea.

Help the community - branch out a little - learn new roles and get rewarded.

I'm going to resist this modern trend to describe tanks and healers as "support classes". Partly because I hope one day MMORPGs will return to its roots and bring back actual support classes as a defined combat role. Their presence made combat more strategic and interesting, especially in a group setting.

But yeah, lots of games have rewarded players for queuing up as roles other than DPS - such as the tanking and healing. WoW has been doing that for years and it would probably be beneficial for ESO to do start doing something similar.

redspecter23

This would just incentivize fake tanks and healers more. The ticket system also sounds great on paper, but if you get enough people "skipping", you basically still have a pile of people waiting, then a pile of less prioritized people waiting for those others to file through the queue first. You might make it impossible to queue as a dps unless you have a ticket.

It's a decent idea that might work well in some games, but here where fake roles are a thing, you reward the wrong type of behavior.

redspecter23

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Something similar to that would be nice. But that would mean ESO needs to measure the tanks taunt% and the healers healing%.

An alternative to that would be to give healers and tanks better random dungeon rewards. 12 transmutes for normal, 15 for vet and a slight chance for a gold mat/ alchemy ingredients

If they start measuring % healing to determine who the healer is, my Pale Order dps magplar might very well be the healer in many 4 man groups.

Faiza

No, they did this in WoW as well and all that happened was everyone fake queued as a healer.

Grizzbeorn

It might work, but only if the reward came after the recipient proved themselves in the role for which they actually queued.
Otherwise, I could see it being much abused by those who queue for fake roles.

Jeremy

redspecter23 wrote: »

This would just incentivize fake tanks and healers more. The ticket system also sounds great on paper, but if you get enough people "skipping", you basically still have a pile of people waiting, then a pile of less prioritized people waiting for those others to file through the queue first. You might make it impossible to queue as a dps unless you have a ticket.

It's a decent idea that might work well in some games, but here where fake roles are a thing, you reward the wrong type of behavior.

I think what incentivizes fake tanks more than anything else is long queue times. So anything that would shorten the queue times for actual DPS players might help the problem more than hurt it. So I still think it would be worthwhile to try and attract more players to play as tanks and healers (especially tanks) even if there are those who will end up abusing it.

The best way to deal with players who fake their roles to cut in line of others would be to implement a special report system that would identify these players so ZoS could investigate and issue them temporary bans from using the queue finder. I believe just having this feature there - even if it's rarely used - would probably go a long way to cutting back on the practice. Because I'm uncomfortable with the idea of letting fakers discourage the implementation of beneficial game systems that might encourage more role diversity.

Jeremy

Faiza wrote: »

No, they did this in WoW as well and all that happened was everyone fake queued as a healer.

WoW gave extra rewards to players who queued up as roles that were in need and it was a success from what I can recall. I don't remember fake healers all over the place. It was effective too, because it encouraged me to play as other roles. Final Fantasy 14 does the same thing and it works well there as well.

Faiza

Jeremy wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

No, they did this in WoW as well and all that happened was everyone fake queued as a healer.

WoW gave extra rewards to players who queued up as roles that were in need and it was a success from what I can recall. I don't remember fake healers all over the place. It was effective too, because it encouraged me to play as other roles. Final Fantasy 14 does the same thing and it works well there as well.

It stayed in the game, but that doesn't mean it successfully solved the problem in fact the rewards ended up being adjusted to be largely insignificant as a result, because elemental shamans and shadow priests were queuing as healers and arms warriors as tanks in not only random dungeons but also LFR - which it where it was a real issue

idk

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Like most games who run support roles Overwatch was suffering from the same problem as ESO.
Too many damage dealers, not enough supports.

So they implemented a system where if you play a support role you are rewarded with a ticket. Your ticket is a one-time consumable you can use to be put infront of the DD line the next time you que as a damage dealer.

It's a reward system - if you help the community by tanking/healing you're rewarded with a near instant que for your next run as damage dealer. Win-Win

They would have to implement measures to make sure a healer got an AOE heal and Tank is slotting a taunt of course - otherwise people would fake role just to farm tickets.

But I like the idea.

Help the community - branch out a little - learn new roles and get rewarded.

This is not the issue. As such the solution is not the solution.

ESO has plenty of players that run support roles, and prefer to do so. These players are very good at playing support roles. They stopped using the GF to get into dungeon groups long ago because it was far too often they were put into groups that lacked the skill level to clear the dungeon let along clearing it well.

As such most decent tanks and healers refuse to use the GF and get into pre-made groups via their guilds and enjoy much better and smoother runs.

In reality, what the suggestion would do is promote fake tanking and healing and reward them for queueing as a fake tank and healer.

That is what will really happen. It is easy to suggest Zos would have to implement measures to prevent fake roles from farming tickets but if it was that easy Zos would have implemented measures to prevent fake roles to start with. There is no true workable means to do so.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Would be nice tbf. I queue tank on my pvp characters when I can solo the dungeon, taunt the boss, deal damage. Tickets would give me a good time when playing characters that are unfinished

validifyedneb18_ESO

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

spartaxoxo

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

validifyedneb18_ESO

spartaxoxo wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

It is sadly a symptom of a larger issue in eso, the vast majority of players having no clue and/or no want to improve. It's a reality of mmos, but if you look at wow for example the bad players still outperform an eso bad player because of the game design. It also does a better job seperating the geared and ungeared players. Both help in creating a better dungeon queue.

zaria

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

Worse for tanks as healer is pretty close to magic DD builds.

And yes this will promote faking, more so in that you could do an random normal to get the ticket and then use in vet.
Now if it has to be used on another character and in same type of content it get a bit more interesting.

idk

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

It is sadly a symptom of a larger issue in eso, the vast majority of players having no clue and/or no want to improve. It's a reality of mmos, but if you look at wow for example the bad players still outperform an eso bad player because of the game design. It also does a better job seperating the geared and ungeared players. Both help in creating a better dungeon queue.

The sad thing is myself and friends have leveled up alt accounts and on alt servers and many of us have shared experiences of being in a random group as a healer when we were about CP 160, the rest of the group CP capped, yet we did over half the damage.

I do realize everyone needs to learn how to play the game and that not all of us are interested in playing it as well as others. However, this is the reason why there are so few tanks and healers that choose to not use the GF. They prefer to play with like-minded players so they form their own group. The same solution helps anyone and everyone get into a group that is what they want.

Raideen

idk wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

It is sadly a symptom of a larger issue in eso, the vast majority of players having no clue and/or no want to improve. It's a reality of mmos, but if you look at wow for example the bad players still outperform an eso bad player because of the game design. It also does a better job seperating the geared and ungeared players. Both help in creating a better dungeon queue.

The sad thing is myself and friends have leveled up alt accounts and on alt servers and many of us have shared experiences of being in a random group as a healer when we were about CP 160, the rest of the group CP capped, yet we did over half the damage.

I do realize everyone needs to learn how to play the game and that not all of us are interested in playing it as well as others. However, this is the reason why there are so few tanks and healers that choose to not use the GF. They prefer to play with like-minded players so they form their own group. The same solution helps anyone and everyone get into a group that is what they want.

This issue of poor DPS is a function of the games design though. It's not intuitive at all how a class should be built and in fact many things that should work on paper to a new player do not measure up to a solid DPS. Extracting good performance from a DPS in ESO is literally a bunch of trial and error to new people, nothing is intuitive about gearing a DPS or what abilities to use.

I heal all the time in normals and vets and often I pull 40% of the damage as a healer. On one hand I want scream and yell at the DPS like everyone else, on the other hand I know all to well how hard it is to DPS in this game. I have not lost sight of what it means to be new in ESO. The issue is many 810+CP have.

mairwen85

Raideen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

It is sadly a symptom of a larger issue in eso, the vast majority of players having no clue and/or no want to improve. It's a reality of mmos, but if you look at wow for example the bad players still outperform an eso bad player because of the game design. It also does a better job seperating the geared and ungeared players. Both help in creating a better dungeon queue.

The sad thing is myself and friends have leveled up alt accounts and on alt servers and many of us have shared experiences of being in a random group as a healer when we were about CP 160, the rest of the group CP capped, yet we did over half the damage.

I do realize everyone needs to learn how to play the game and that not all of us are interested in playing it as well as others. However, this is the reason why there are so few tanks and healers that choose to not use the GF. They prefer to play with like-minded players so they form their own group. The same solution helps anyone and everyone get into a group that is what they want.

This issue of poor DPS is a function of the games design though. It's not intuitive at all how a class should be built and in fact many things that should work on paper to a new player do not measure up to a solid DPS. Extracting good performance from a DPS in ESO is literally a bunch of trial and error to new people, nothing is intuitive about gearing a DPS or what abilities to use.

I heal all the time in normals and vets and often I pull 40% of the damage as a healer. On one hand I want scream and yell at the DPS like everyone else, on the other hand I know all to well how hard it is to DPS in this game. I have not lost sight of what it means to be new in ESO. The issue is many 810+CP have.

You make a fair point in your last paragraph, only it isn't just new players. I've seen 'new players' evolve into solid players in a matter of weeks, and somehow stumble upon long time players @ 810 who havent a clue. The difference isn't how long they've played, but how much they're willing to actually learn in that time. It's effort vs reward, isn't it?

validifyedneb18_ESO

I am fairly confident that the ONLY surefire way to not be annoyed by randoms is to slot a taunt and "fake" tank it. If you taunt and don't die, nothing fake about it.

The only issue comes up with dlc dungeons. Some of my characters are not prepared to tank normal dlc, in mhk I have to be on point with my rolls or its 1shot,but then by the time you get to the 3rd boss its usually quits anyway there, with Noone in the group knowing how interrupts work. And if they get through that, good luck trying to explain boss 4 to randoms.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Having co led a decent vet trials guild a while back, the issue really is the people who are unwilling to learn.
you have people who;
Want to learn but won't listen, or don't grasp key concepts like weaving and it's importance
Never knew they where so *** because there is no dps meter in game
Want to learn and do learn

In my experience, I have met tonnes of people from the first group, and have yet to meet anyone from the last group. That group quickly progresses to being good players, they rarely pop up fresh

zvavi

Raideen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

It is sadly a symptom of a larger issue in eso, the vast majority of players having no clue and/or no want to improve. It's a reality of mmos, but if you look at wow for example the bad players still outperform an eso bad player because of the game design. It also does a better job seperating the geared and ungeared players. Both help in creating a better dungeon queue.

The sad thing is myself and friends have leveled up alt accounts and on alt servers and many of us have shared experiences of being in a random group as a healer when we were about CP 160, the rest of the group CP capped, yet we did over half the damage.

I do realize everyone needs to learn how to play the game and that not all of us are interested in playing it as well as others. However, this is the reason why there are so few tanks and healers that choose to not use the GF. They prefer to play with like-minded players so they form their own group. The same solution helps anyone and everyone get into a group that is what they want.

This issue of poor DPS is a function of the games design though. It's not intuitive at all how a class should be built and in fact many things that should work on paper to a new player do not measure up to a solid DPS. Extracting good performance from a DPS in ESO is literally a bunch of trial and error to new people, nothing is intuitive about gearing a DPS or what abilities to use.

I heal all the time in normals and vets and often I pull 40% of the damage as a healer. On one hand I want scream and yell at the DPS like everyone else, on the other hand I know all to well how hard it is to DPS in this game. I have not lost sight of what it means to be new in ESO. The issue is many 810+CP have.

I call ***. I was deciding my skill usage since low levels, without any external influence, you don't need anyone to teach you to read which skill does how much damage, and see that your aoe damage over time abilities deal more damage over 10 seconds than your spammable in a moment. And it also doesn't take much brain to decide to use 2 aoe dots that are 10 seconds, and refresh them on cooldown. It just takes the will to actually deal damage with your skills.

Raideen

mairwen85 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

It is sadly a symptom of a larger issue in eso, the vast majority of players having no clue and/or no want to improve. It's a reality of mmos, but if you look at wow for example the bad players still outperform an eso bad player because of the game design. It also does a better job seperating the geared and ungeared players. Both help in creating a better dungeon queue.

The sad thing is myself and friends have leveled up alt accounts and on alt servers and many of us have shared experiences of being in a random group as a healer when we were about CP 160, the rest of the group CP capped, yet we did over half the damage.

I do realize everyone needs to learn how to play the game and that not all of us are interested in playing it as well as others. However, this is the reason why there are so few tanks and healers that choose to not use the GF. They prefer to play with like-minded players so they form their own group. The same solution helps anyone and everyone get into a group that is what they want.

This issue of poor DPS is a function of the games design though. It's not intuitive at all how a class should be built and in fact many things that should work on paper to a new player do not measure up to a solid DPS. Extracting good performance from a DPS in ESO is literally a bunch of trial and error to new people, nothing is intuitive about gearing a DPS or what abilities to use.

I heal all the time in normals and vets and often I pull 40% of the damage as a healer. On one hand I want scream and yell at the DPS like everyone else, on the other hand I know all to well how hard it is to DPS in this game. I have not lost sight of what it means to be new in ESO. The issue is many 810+CP have.

You make a fair point in your last paragraph, only it isn't just new players. I've seen 'new players' evolve into solid players in a matter of weeks, and somehow stumble upon long time players @ 810 who havent a clue. The difference isn't how long they've played, but how much they're willing to actually learn in that time. It's effort vs reward, isn't it?

I don't know if I would say its effort vs reward. To give an example. I have been trying to DPS for 3 years. I just RECENTLY figured out why infused staves on the back bar and infused bows on the back bar with weapon enchants is a MUST in any DPS build (and then why using maelstrom infused staves/bows on the back bar). This kind of information, where a weapon proc will continue to proc on the back bar while the player is on the front bar is not documented anywhere in game. This kind of information is only found if someone explains it to you. Even most of the guides I see dont explain WHY, they just say to do so. So, is my lack of DPS for 3 years because of a lack of effort? No, not even remotely. It's because the DPS system in ESO is more about trial and error than math. Some things that look good on paper will not perform. Some that look ridiculous end up being meta.

This has less to do with the player and more to do with the design of the game, where tooltips are not completely understandable and creating a build is all over the place in regards to what will work and what wont. In fact, streamers and the guides that put builds together are building this stuff on the PTS. In ESO you really need to know what you want to play, how you want to play etc etc and then build your character around that. The leveling process is really a reverse engineered move towards a predefined goal. This is not the case in WOW or SWTOR (mmo's I have spent most of my time with), which is where much if not most of the MMO community gets their idea of how MMORPG's work.

Another example of something that is not documented in game. How monster helms do not work with spell power, crit etc. Most of them only get buffed through certain CP's or armor pen. If someone is building an entire lightning build around netches touch and a lightning proc set and a lightning monster helm, the idea looks great on paper, but in practice some of the build will not work.

Raideen

zvavi wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

It is sadly a symptom of a larger issue in eso, the vast majority of players having no clue and/or no want to improve. It's a reality of mmos, but if you look at wow for example the bad players still outperform an eso bad player because of the game design. It also does a better job seperating the geared and ungeared players. Both help in creating a better dungeon queue.

The sad thing is myself and friends have leveled up alt accounts and on alt servers and many of us have shared experiences of being in a random group as a healer when we were about CP 160, the rest of the group CP capped, yet we did over half the damage.

I do realize everyone needs to learn how to play the game and that not all of us are interested in playing it as well as others. However, this is the reason why there are so few tanks and healers that choose to not use the GF. They prefer to play with like-minded players so they form their own group. The same solution helps anyone and everyone get into a group that is what they want.

This issue of poor DPS is a function of the games design though. It's not intuitive at all how a class should be built and in fact many things that should work on paper to a new player do not measure up to a solid DPS. Extracting good performance from a DPS in ESO is literally a bunch of trial and error to new people, nothing is intuitive about gearing a DPS or what abilities to use.

I heal all the time in normals and vets and often I pull 40% of the damage as a healer. On one hand I want scream and yell at the DPS like everyone else, on the other hand I know all to well how hard it is to DPS in this game. I have not lost sight of what it means to be new in ESO. The issue is many 810+CP have.

I call ***. I was deciding my skill usage since low levels, without any external influence, you don't need anyone to teach you to read which skill does how much damage, and see that your aoe damage over time abilities deal more damage over 10 seconds than your spammable in a moment. And it also doesn't take much brain to decide to use 2 aoe dots that are 10 seconds, and refresh them on cooldown. It just takes the will to actually deal damage with your skills.

Read my reply to the post above. This addresses my rebuttal to your post.

zvavi

Raideen wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

It is sadly a symptom of a larger issue in eso, the vast majority of players having no clue and/or no want to improve. It's a reality of mmos, but if you look at wow for example the bad players still outperform an eso bad player because of the game design. It also does a better job seperating the geared and ungeared players. Both help in creating a better dungeon queue.

The sad thing is myself and friends have leveled up alt accounts and on alt servers and many of us have shared experiences of being in a random group as a healer when we were about CP 160, the rest of the group CP capped, yet we did over half the damage.

I do realize everyone needs to learn how to play the game and that not all of us are interested in playing it as well as others. However, this is the reason why there are so few tanks and healers that choose to not use the GF. They prefer to play with like-minded players so they form their own group. The same solution helps anyone and everyone get into a group that is what they want.

This issue of poor DPS is a function of the games design though. It's not intuitive at all how a class should be built and in fact many things that should work on paper to a new player do not measure up to a solid DPS. Extracting good performance from a DPS in ESO is literally a bunch of trial and error to new people, nothing is intuitive about gearing a DPS or what abilities to use.

I heal all the time in normals and vets and often I pull 40% of the damage as a healer. On one hand I want scream and yell at the DPS like everyone else, on the other hand I know all to well how hard it is to DPS in this game. I have not lost sight of what it means to be new in ESO. The issue is many 810+CP have.

I call ***. I was deciding my skill usage since low levels, without any external influence, you don't need anyone to teach you to read which skill does how much damage, and see that your aoe damage over time abilities deal more damage over 10 seconds than your spammable in a moment. And it also doesn't take much brain to decide to use 2 aoe dots that are 10 seconds, and refresh them on cooldown. It just takes the will to actually deal damage with your skills.

Read my reply to the post above. This addresses my rebuttal to your post.

I agree that much is not explained (and can still be tested solo btw) but I am very sorry spamming light attacks is a no no. Not refreshing your dots is also a no no. Not wearing sets is a no no. More than that? Sure. Whatever. Don't expect much. But these things? Why not do them? Why go in group content queued as a damage dealer role (on vet) when you didn't even build for damage?

Raideen

zvavi wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

@idk makes a good point. The main problem is *** dd driving support players to not want to risk getting into a random group.

If you get unlucky as a healer you could be in an hour long BC1 clear. Noone even half decent at the game wants that.

It doesn't help that you are punished for leaving. I get why...but it kills the incentive for good players to want to deal with PUGS.

It is sadly a symptom of a larger issue in eso, the vast majority of players having no clue and/or no want to improve. It's a reality of mmos, but if you look at wow for example the bad players still outperform an eso bad player because of the game design. It also does a better job seperating the geared and ungeared players. Both help in creating a better dungeon queue.

The sad thing is myself and friends have leveled up alt accounts and on alt servers and many of us have shared experiences of being in a random group as a healer when we were about CP 160, the rest of the group CP capped, yet we did over half the damage.

I do realize everyone needs to learn how to play the game and that not all of us are interested in playing it as well as others. However, this is the reason why there are so few tanks and healers that choose to not use the GF. They prefer to play with like-minded players so they form their own group. The same solution helps anyone and everyone get into a group that is what they want.

This issue of poor DPS is a function of the games design though. It's not intuitive at all how a class should be built and in fact many things that should work on paper to a new player do not measure up to a solid DPS. Extracting good performance from a DPS in ESO is literally a bunch of trial and error to new people, nothing is intuitive about gearing a DPS or what abilities to use.

I heal all the time in normals and vets and often I pull 40% of the damage as a healer. On one hand I want scream and yell at the DPS like everyone else, on the other hand I know all to well how hard it is to DPS in this game. I have not lost sight of what it means to be new in ESO. The issue is many 810+CP have.

I call ***. I was deciding my skill usage since low levels, without any external influence, you don't need anyone to teach you to read which skill does how much damage, and see that your aoe damage over time abilities deal more damage over 10 seconds than your spammable in a moment. And it also doesn't take much brain to decide to use 2 aoe dots that are 10 seconds, and refresh them on cooldown. It just takes the will to actually deal damage with your skills.

Read my reply to the post above. This addresses my rebuttal to your post.

I agree that much is not explained (and can still be tested solo btw) but I am very sorry spamming light attacks is a no no. Not refreshing your dots is also a no no. Not wearing sets is a no no. More than that? Sure. Whatever. Don't expect much. But these things? Why not do them? Why go in group content queued as a damage dealer role (on vet) when you didn't even build for damage?

I dont understand your assumptions. I do use sets, in fact I use 5x2 and monster sets. I do throw dots, in fact I do everything you suggested and that is EXACTLY my point that those alone are not enough to push out solid DPS, not the kind of DPS the community expects.

mairwen85

It's not hard to read tooltips. It's not hard to Google something you don't understand.