Fix the templar class!

KurtAngle2

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

What templars are missing is a heal over time spammable. Something like wardens living trellis, a way to buff up heals or defensive that can also be spammed to heal up fast.

Erryone gangster with their healing jabs until you have to do portal in CR etc.. And don't have anything to attack to heal off for ages.

I agree with this, in the sense that it is what I feel like I most need on the Magplar. Living Dark is good if outnumbered or facing another Templar (since it procs a ton against Jabs/Sweeps), but you need to be taking a bunch of direct damage attacks to get any heals from it, so it’s not a reliable HoT. Extended Ritual is a good ability but the actual HoT on it isn’t very strong and requires you to stay in one place, which isn’t usually great in PvP. And those are really the only HoT-like abilities the Templar has in its kit. It forces me to run Rapid Regen on a Magplar—which I guess I don’t totally mind to be honest, since I love the resto ult anyways.

That said, I think it’s purposeful that Templars don’t get a great HoT. I think reasoning is that they deal with damage over time not through HoTs, but through purging. And, to the extent the damage over time that they are receiving isn’t from actual DoTs that can be purged but rather through sustained direct damage, then Living Dark is actually a good HoT. That combination might leave them with a bit of a weakness in being able to actually get back to full health quickly when not taking damage (since both Extended Ritual and Living Dark are more about mitigating damage that is coming in, and won’t actually heal you up much when you aren’t taking damage), but that’s why they have the best burst heal in the game.

Templars and "Best Burst Heal in the game" is a joke right? Wardens, DKs and Necros would like to have a word with you right now

I guess it’s a matter of opinion, but I think Honor the Dead is better than Coagulating Blood or Resistant Flesh. Those other abilities actually are stronger in a sense—Coag gives you +12% healing received through passives, and is a stronger heal when you’re low (which is when burst heals are most important), while Resistant Flesh gives you some additional resistances. But Honor the Dead is so much cheaper because of the magicka restore. That’s a big advantage. I prefer that. That said, as I said, it’s a matter of opinion, and on a build that has no sustain issues at all then Coag or Resistant Flesh would be better.

When you mention the Warden, I assume you’re referring to Arctic Wind? I agree that’s a stacked ability that is better than Honor the Dead. But it’s pretty different in function—as a health-based heal—so I wasn’t thinking about it when I said Honor the Dead is the best burst heal. I do think Honor the Dead is better than any morph of Fungal Growth.

No, these class heals with their respective morphs are better when you push max Magicka and Spell Damage.

DK Coagulating blood heals more when you're under 75% and gives you 40% HP recovery and also another +12% healing received

Necro Resistent Flesh gives a "Nord" passive bonus or even more when you critically heal, adds +8% Healing Done (relevant to others mostly) if not already having a debuff and gets additional crit chance the lower the HP

Warden Growth is busted as hell right now: it heals less than all other aforementioned heals but:

- Targets every ally in the direction you're aiming and yourself
- Gives +10% HP
- Gives +20% Stam/Mag recovery
- Gives you Major Mending if any healed target was under 40% HP
- Gives back 250 Magicka each cast
- Gives +2% healing done


It's not a matter of opinions, Templar sucks hard right now

Dracane

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

What templars are missing is a heal over time spammable. Something like wardens living trellis, a way to buff up heals or defensive that can also be spammed to heal up fast.

Erryone gangster with their healing jabs until you have to do portal in CR etc.. And don't have anything to attack to heal off for ages.

I agree with this, in the sense that it is what I feel like I most need on the Magplar. Living Dark is good if outnumbered or facing another Templar (since it procs a ton against Jabs/Sweeps), but you need to be taking a bunch of direct damage attacks to get any heals from it, so it’s not a reliable HoT. Extended Ritual is a good ability but the actual HoT on it isn’t very strong and requires you to stay in one place, which isn’t usually great in PvP. And those are really the only HoT-like abilities the Templar has in its kit. It forces me to run Rapid Regen on a Magplar—which I guess I don’t totally mind to be honest, since I love the resto ult anyways.

That said, I think it’s purposeful that Templars don’t get a great HoT. I think reasoning is that they deal with damage over time not through HoTs, but through purging. And, to the extent the damage over time that they are receiving isn’t from actual DoTs that can be purged but rather through sustained direct damage, then Living Dark is actually a good HoT. That combination might leave them with a bit of a weakness in being able to actually get back to full health quickly when not taking damage (since both Extended Ritual and Living Dark are more about mitigating damage that is coming in, and won’t actually heal you up much when you aren’t taking damage), but that’s why they have the best burst heal in the game.

Templars and "Best Burst Heal in the game" is a joke right? Wardens, DKs and Necros would like to have a word with you right now

I guess it’s a matter of opinion, but I think Honor the Dead is better than Coagulating Blood or Resistant Flesh. Those other abilities actually are stronger in a sense—Coag gives you +12% healing received through passives, and is a stronger heal when you’re low (which is when burst heals are most important), while Resistant Flesh gives you some additional resistances. But Honor the Dead is so much cheaper because of the magicka restore. That’s a big advantage. I prefer that. That said, as I said, it’s a matter of opinion, and on a build that has no sustain issues at all then Coag or Resistant Flesh would be better.

When you mention the Warden, I assume you’re referring to Arctic Wind? I agree that’s a stacked ability that is better than Honor the Dead. But it’s pretty different in function—as a health-based heal—so I wasn’t thinking about it when I said Honor the Dead is the best burst heal. I do think Honor the Dead is better than any morph of Fungal Growth.

No, these class heals with their respective morphs are better when you push max Magicka and Spell Damage.

DK Coagulating blood heals more when you're under 75% and gives you 40% HP recovery and also another +12% healing received

Necro Resistent Flesh gives a "Nord" passive bonus or even more when you critically heal, adds +8% Healing Done (relevant to others mostly) if not already having a debuff and gets additional crit chance the lower the HP

Warden Growth is busted as hell right now: it heals less than all other aforementioned heals but:

- Targets every ally in the direction you're aiming and yourself
- Gives +10% HP
- Gives +20% Stam/Mag recovery
- Gives you Major Mending if any healed target was under 40% HP
- Gives back 250 Magicka each cast
- Gives +2% healing done


It's not a matter of opinions, Templar sucks hard right now

Still, Honor the Dead heals for more than any of these heals other than Coagulating blood and also refunds almost all its cost.
Templar has problems, like any class, but its self heal is not the problem. When in an emergency like execute range, only the magnitude of the heal will really save you, not whatever bonus effects it might carry.

Coagulating blood is just busted. Absolutely crazy. Even on high health it eclipses pretty much everything. But Honor the Dead is one of the best self heals and not where Templar needs love.

techyeshic

Templar problems are not sustain. Magplar is not self heals (stamplar could use something). It's crappy defenses (see lack of templar tanking) lack of mobility, either speed or immunity, and lack of escape. Fine to not have all of those but zero? You can run vamp and most form to make yo for it and even go to to tier like that cheesing price sets and health recovery; just as an example of the difference it makes.

Sure; we have ER that people will say is a defensive but that's really expensive for stamplar, and the 2 purchased classes obviously have cheaper.

Feels like we've been over this all. They made it worse last patch in rather than removing major buffs like protection from easy access, they nerfed major protection making remembrance a death sentence to lock you in place. Used to be possible to use it as sort of a reset. Not anymore.

And of course, POTL and PL I stand buy as both being crap. But not sure damage us the tree to bark up when jabs and sweeps have potential to do a ton of damage even if not likely.

Qbiken

Dracane wrote: »

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

What templars are missing is a heal over time spammable. Something like wardens living trellis, a way to buff up heals or defensive that can also be spammed to heal up fast.

Erryone gangster with their healing jabs until you have to do portal in CR etc.. And don't have anything to attack to heal off for ages.

I agree with this, in the sense that it is what I feel like I most need on the Magplar. Living Dark is good if outnumbered or facing another Templar (since it procs a ton against Jabs/Sweeps), but you need to be taking a bunch of direct damage attacks to get any heals from it, so it’s not a reliable HoT. Extended Ritual is a good ability but the actual HoT on it isn’t very strong and requires you to stay in one place, which isn’t usually great in PvP. And those are really the only HoT-like abilities the Templar has in its kit. It forces me to run Rapid Regen on a Magplar—which I guess I don’t totally mind to be honest, since I love the resto ult anyways.

That said, I think it’s purposeful that Templars don’t get a great HoT. I think reasoning is that they deal with damage over time not through HoTs, but through purging. And, to the extent the damage over time that they are receiving isn’t from actual DoTs that can be purged but rather through sustained direct damage, then Living Dark is actually a good HoT. That combination might leave them with a bit of a weakness in being able to actually get back to full health quickly when not taking damage (since both Extended Ritual and Living Dark are more about mitigating damage that is coming in, and won’t actually heal you up much when you aren’t taking damage), but that’s why they have the best burst heal in the game.

Templars and "Best Burst Heal in the game" is a joke right? Wardens, DKs and Necros would like to have a word with you right now

I guess it’s a matter of opinion, but I think Honor the Dead is better than Coagulating Blood or Resistant Flesh. Those other abilities actually are stronger in a sense—Coag gives you +12% healing received through passives, and is a stronger heal when you’re low (which is when burst heals are most important), while Resistant Flesh gives you some additional resistances. But Honor the Dead is so much cheaper because of the magicka restore. That’s a big advantage. I prefer that. That said, as I said, it’s a matter of opinion, and on a build that has no sustain issues at all then Coag or Resistant Flesh would be better.

When you mention the Warden, I assume you’re referring to Arctic Wind? I agree that’s a stacked ability that is better than Honor the Dead. But it’s pretty different in function—as a health-based heal—so I wasn’t thinking about it when I said Honor the Dead is the best burst heal. I do think Honor the Dead is better than any morph of Fungal Growth.

No, these class heals with their respective morphs are better when you push max Magicka and Spell Damage.

DK Coagulating blood heals more when you're under 75% and gives you 40% HP recovery and also another +12% healing received

Necro Resistent Flesh gives a "Nord" passive bonus or even more when you critically heal, adds +8% Healing Done (relevant to others mostly) if not already having a debuff and gets additional crit chance the lower the HP

Warden Growth is busted as hell right now: it heals less than all other aforementioned heals but:

- Targets every ally in the direction you're aiming and yourself
- Gives +10% HP
- Gives +20% Stam/Mag recovery
- Gives you Major Mending if any healed target was under 40% HP
- Gives back 250 Magicka each cast
- Gives +2% healing done


It's not a matter of opinions, Templar sucks hard right now

Still, Honor the Dead heals for more than any of these heals other than Coagulating blood and also refunds almost all its cost.
Templar has problems, like any class, but its self heal is not the problem. When in an emergency like execute range, only the magnitude of the heal will really save you, not whatever bonus effects it might carry.

Coagulating blood is just busted. Absolutely crazy. Even on high health it eclipses pretty much everything. But Honor the Dead is one of the best self heals and not where Templar needs love.

The only reason Honor the Dead (HtD) heals for an acceptable amount this patch is due to ZOS undoing some of the nerfs to battlespirit. Excluding that, it´s still a pretty "meh" heal seeing how magplars biggest issue in PvP (from and outnumbered perspective) is to go from defense to offense due to magplars offensive window being very small. Reason you see so many magplars run mistform this patch is because it gives them a chance to recover without being stuck on their backbar trying to recover with HtD, which most of the times isn´t enough.

But as I´ve said before, I don´t see magplars active skills to be the main issue right now, but their passives. Some of them are very outdated (especially in the restoring light skilline) and some of them needs redesign (like burning light and balanced warrior). If ZOS would update templar passives, I think both magplar (and stamplar depending on how they decide to rework them) would be in a much better spot.

Joinovikova

they have great class one of the strongest spamable, best clean, best heal, great health scale sheild , best class for mist form exploit.. since great buffs 20% to all regen on one skill .. in bgs ussualy most kills zero death stay mist form in pve best dps best heal ...

[Edit to remove flame]

relentless_turnip

I have just made my first stamplar build and I think it's the easiest and one of the strongest classes I've played. This is my eighth character I have played in PvP. I don't mean to contradict those that have more experience on this class than I do, but the damage and burst seems to hit hard and is very easy to do.

I have probably spent most my time on a stamsorc, but loads on magdk, warden and necro. I don't think Templar is better than any of them, but i wouldn't say it was obviously worse either. I found warden very boring and predictable and necro clunky and too buff intensive, though I do agree these are stronger generally.

Hilariously I think stamsorc self healing feels much better than a stamplar. I use master dw on stamsorc, but found I needed a defensive monster set for stamplar. Of course stamsorc has much better mobility too. Templar has an easier time building damage IMO than stamsorc despite additions of crystal weapon and bound armaments.

Warden healing is insane and necros mitigation is also crazy. Necro also has such high recovery that you can just build damage. Everyone knows stamdens and stamcros are ahead of the other classes though...

I would have loved to try potl before the nerf, it still feels incredible to me.

Again I don't mean to contradict the vibe, this is just my early impressions.

llBlack_Heartll

I just wonder if Burning Light Should proc off all Templar Damage Abilities, might need to increase the procs to 5 or 6 ticks but this would encourage more people to slot Templar Damage abilities other than Jabs especially on a stam toon. It would also give the option to slot other spammables instead of jabs, bit more build diversity.

dcmgti

I play both stamplar and magplar, much more comfortable on my magplar than stamplar this patch. The stamplar of course hits harder but puncturing sweeps will give you a little healing until someone smacks you in the face with a dswing. Then youre spamming HTD to heal back up with limited class mobility. Vigor does hit way harder on my stamplar than HOT does on my magplar though. Tried running resto back bar on the magplar but considering where damage is right now, s&b will keep me alive longer. I absolutely can't play magplar in light armor this patch, I know some can but I can't survive at all in light right now.

I still dont think jabs or sweeps hits quite like it used to.

I do plan on reworking my stamplar with RaT and wild hunt ring to see how i like it.

I agree the passives need to be reworked along with maybe changing how PL/PoTL work with regards to burst damage, not saying to make them OP but change how they work. I don't even run PL on my magplar anymore. And the burning light change really hurt.

Synssaturdayy9

i think stamplar is underperforming hella compared to all the op stuff other classes have like potl use to be just as good as any other burst on the game but now it's underperforming in my opinion unlike all the other main burst utilty's in the game rn and in my opinion theirs alot of things i would like to see on stamplar in 2021 like in my opinion i think power of the light should get buffed burning light should get changed back to how it used to be and i think jabs should have additional damage added to it again and snare for 70% like how it used to now these are all the things i personally think should be added back to stamplar just so that they can actually have a chance in pvp situations like how they used to in my opinion this class is underperforming rn and i personally get farmed on it in pvp situations and ive been playing for years stamplar does actually need a buff its been really bad since greymoor i also think repentance and the templar passive are pretty useless rn i mean cmon theirs a passive for a ultimate nobody uses and resurrection time like come on guys the last time stamplar was actually playable for me was in 2019 and then everything got nerfed i think the people talking down about this class need to play it bc in my opinion it needs buffed. (Thank you to whoever read this)