Community, Why are you like this?

Stratti

While the OP is right, in my experience the situation is different. I have found , while tanking, that people who have sub par performance react angrily when this is mentioned. Occasionally people admit it and the even ask how to improve but usually they abuse you and react angrily.

Shokner

Just started a magik nightblade only lvl 18 with cp 210 went to do Old Widow Silk two other players there i expected to die once or twice not running any gear on it except what i find or loot i died once, one of the other player was cp 810 he died twice some times it's not what you have makes a difference only thing i did different is i seemed to know how to rolldoge he didn't. In a dugeon this would prob be a kicking offence to some players and his family banished into exile.

Nordic__Knights

zvavi wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Because when I tell 810 CP players that they need to interrupt the boss or he one shots the tank in vMHK they smirk at you and tell you that they run the dungeon over 10 times and know mechanics.

It was in a run advertised as a no death run in guild chats. Obviously after I already died to being executed by the boss.

I mean, you ask why we are mean, and not helping, not giving advice. I don't kick, but the reason I stopped actively giving advice, because people are *** to you when you do.

if your having bad guild runs id say teach your guild better or get an ranking system in play for it but whats being talked about here is pug groups where anyone CAN BE PLACED WITH YOU even the one arm man wanting to see what its all about

It was not gathered by me, but another guy in the guild, from guilds I don't really know, it was practically a pug run for me. I just gave it as an example to why people stop giving advice.

ok id get at my buddy on what you ping me for lol but yes i see 810s get all in flamed over being told something reasonable at times too

zvavi

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Because when I tell 810 CP players that they need to interrupt the boss or he one shots the tank in vMHK they smirk at you and tell you that they run the dungeon over 10 times and know mechanics.

It was in a run advertised as a no death run in guild chats. Obviously after I already died to being executed by the boss.

I mean, you ask why we are mean, and not helping, not giving advice. I don't kick, but the reason I stopped actively giving advice, because people are *** to you when you do.

Fair. But one point. You said guild chat. Im talking about pug queue.
Guild runs are fair game, and advertised as such is fair game to complain.

I used it as example because it was my most recent advice giving. If you want another example then a dungeon earlier, with pugs, I told the tank not to keep adds as close to the boss because they enrage and he dies, he just ignored me and kept doing the same. Those 2 examples are from yesterday. And are the last 2 times I gave advice. Do you wanna go back and backtrack on my various tries to make wipes less wipes and see how people react to them? People are *** to you, out of every 100 times you are nice, you will be 60% ignored, 30% talked back to, and 10% helpful. ye I might be a masochist for keep trying, but that's why people stopped helping.

K but that means you keep the cycle going by potentially blacklisting and being a jerk to others? I fail to see the logic.

Yes explaining mechanics when we wipe is being a jerk. I am the one being a jerk by trying to tell people what they can do for the run to be more smooth.

You just proves that most people will go into the 90 people that ignore/talk back when explained mechanics.

Ps I have like 3 people blacklisted. I don't usually blacklist.

PS2. Those statistics might be a bit different for na, because EU does have language barrier.

StevieKingslayer

Stratti wrote: »

While the OP is right, in my experience the situation is different. I have found , while tanking, that people who have sub par performance react angrily when this is mentioned. Occasionally people admit it and the even ask how to improve but usually they abuse you and react angrily.

That's also a fair point, it's happened to me when trying to offer help to someone, But I think thats for another thread on 'PLEASE LET US HELP YOU ', But you are right, just not what Im trying to discuss is all

EmEm_Oh

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Shokner wrote: »

Hey normally i only come to the forums on maintance/patch days to bash the dev's but I fully agree with everything you say, and had to give you an awesome I wish there was a lot more thinking like this. There's an elite idiocy in the game that think putting people down is a great way to start a dungeon apparently they were never a Noob you know.

I was a noob once. I feel the struggle. Pisses me off a fair bit. You can say you're annoyed, You don't gotta flame people.

Not to mention if all 3 players are so "Vet", they could easily pull the weight of the 4th. Which I have done with 2 other players for another who never experienced a particular dungeon before. None of us had a problem doing it. But I will say I will log if I get players being asses to another for simply not knowing stuff.

Sephyr

It's pretty funny you mention it because I'm quite often baffled that people who've been here long enough to know the mechanics of something actually don't know all that much about the mechanics of said thing. It happens quite often here on the forum. That's a different story though, I suppose!

In game though, I try to often help the lower CPs out. If I notice they're a vampire, I carry both versions of the Bloody Mara drinks on my person at all times to help manage the staging. Same with repair kits, literally thousands of soul gems, various stacks of crafted potions, and most of the BiS food. Even lockpicks. A little bit of kindness can make someone's bad day just a little bit better. If they can't do the dungeon, I usually add them as a friend if they're really wanting that clear and I set something up for them with fellow guildies who don't judge or charge for skin runs, even the ones that require a lot of work to get. Most of them even became guildies after getting those skins, which is a good way to get a stable dungeon community going. Some of my best experiences are with people we've done this with.

StevieKingslayer

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Shokner wrote: »

Hey normally i only come to the forums on maintance/patch days to bash the dev's but I fully agree with everything you say, and had to give you an awesome I wish there was a lot more thinking like this. There's an elite idiocy in the game that think putting people down is a great way to start a dungeon apparently they were never a Noob you know.

I was a noob once. I feel the struggle. Pisses me off a fair bit. You can say you're annoyed, You don't gotta flame people.

Not to mention if all 3 players are so "Vet", they could easily pull the weight of the 4th. Which I have done with 2 other players for another who never experienced a particular dungeon before. None of us had a problem doing it. But I will say I will log if I get players being asses to another for simply not knowing stuff.

Yeah, I've carried before. I dont mind it really, as long as their trying, and you can tell the ones who do and don't try. As long as their trying, it's of no concern to me. I mean say 'oh ffs' when Im rezzing them, but I dont say it to them, or the group, I just mutter under my breath. I have dumb moments and roll in stupid all the time and I've been doing this for six years. *** happens, it's a game

Jaimeh

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

I'm tired of threads dividing the community into pissy elitists and nice noobs, when in fact it's everything in-between. I've seen new players who spat on you when offered to explain a mechanic, and I've seen veterans who are generous with their knowledge, time, and materials. I've personally spend a fair amount after dungeons talking builds with new playets, given free skyreach levelling runs to strangers, and point people to resources and guides, but not everyone will have that inclination or time. It doesn't mean they have to be rude to new players, but sometimes inexperieneced players (especially during events) will do a content they are completely unprepared for and not even give a heads up. The community as a whole, is actually very generous, I routinely see twitter posts of people sharing kind exchanges or encounters they have in game. It might not seem so in the pug finder during a dungeon event, because of the pressure to get the thing done, but it's not a true reflection of the community.

It's only dividing to those it's targeted at. And if they are offended, not my problem. Yes, there is a good side of the community, I don't deny that - But this post is about the absolute abuse I've seen the lower cp take in the last few days thanks to the 'older players' (me being one of them) and Im tired of it. Some positive interactions on twitter do not mean the community is good, some negative posts do not mean the community is bad. This is a post to potentially, hopefully, make some of those people feeling abused lately with this event to know that some of us do care about them, and acknowledge that they are trying, and to address that there is a problem in the community, and some positive twitter posts don't hide that fact.

The positive posts from twitter were just an example, because usually the forums tend to focus on complaints, and also a big part of the community doesn't use them. Also, the negative posts are more prevalent during events--again it's not the whole picture. It's good to let low CP player (and all players, since you can get bad behaviours even within all 810CP groups) know that if they had a negative experience, it's not how all of the game is, but I personally don't like the demonization of the comminuty because of a few people with bad attitude problems.

Im hardly demonizing the community, Its a bait title to make y'all click which ya did. Its how forums work unfortunately.
As stated, by everyone here, there is varying experiences. I am commenting on mine, we are all able to make forum posts, or reply with our own experiences. I am simply putting my hand up for the ones who dont have forum accounts, and the ones that dont want to cause a scene. It makes people feel ***. I know, I've been there, we all have. If it is a bother, you need to not read it yeah? Its not aimed at you. The one's it's aimed at, know it's aimed at them. And they won't care, but I said my piece, and I have a clearer mind for it.

I understand it's a comiserating post for new players who have had this happen (I've had similar experiences, even as a vet player) to know there's support, but I was merely pointing out there's too much of that in the forums (on both ends: see the numerous 'fake dps' threads, etc.). Also, to those who've actually faced abusive/derogatory behaviour in dungeon runs, besides the moral support here, it's also useful to know there's a report function in the game, and although ZOS never replies with the outcomes, it's something you can do in such cases (as well as 'ignoring' players, by clicking on their username, so they can't contact you).

Husan

Disclaimer: I play on EU PC and I never PUG vet DLC dungeons.

My experience with PUGS using the group finder is as follows: Usually the DPS is subpar. This is okay as I am either prepared to spend a while in the dungeon if I run as pure tank or roll as sort of a "fake" tank and put out decent DPS while keeping aggro on the bosses and clustering enemies for that sweet AoE damage.

I often go out of my way and try to give advice to players I clearly see are struggling with either DPS or staying alive, whether due to gearing, skill or just not knowing mechanics. Many times such advice is percieved as hostile so I try to make it clear I am not blaming anyone for anything but just trying to help. Many people also completely ignore such advice. As an example in Blessed Crucible last boss, when she summons atronachs she gains a massive shield for a couple of million of hit points that goes away when you kill the atronachs. Every single time I have pugged that dungeon there is a DD that does not attack the atronachs. If I see people ignoring the atronachs, I tell them once, and they usually react. If not, I wait about 30 seconds and do it myself. No sense to lose time if someone is not willing to listen or doesn't understand simple english.

Rarely, but the most satisfying is when people react positively to my advice, and this usually ends up with them adding me to their friends list and completing more runs in the future. It makes me really proud when I see any of my padawans after a couple of months and they are now the ones carrying others through dungeons

Also, I have never, ever had to kick anyone for not pulling their weight. It has happened to me in the past we simply could not complete a dungeon due to lack of dps or tank performance, and after 10+ wipes on a boss I would apologize and explain that maybe we are not ready for this yet and that I will leave after x more tries (again, making it a point not to blame any specific person). Some people ofcourse react negatively to that, but it is a risk you have to take when running harder content with people you don't know. This is why I don't run vet DLC with PUGs anymore, and 100% of the PUG experiences I had since are positive.

I would like to end this post with a quote from Lucky Number Slevin for the people that have many negative experiences running with randoms: "The first time somebody calls you a horse, you punch 'em on the nose, the second time somebody calls you a horse, you call 'em a jerk, but the third time somebody calls you a horse, well, then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle."

Nordic__Knights

few days back pull INTO VET DLC run with 2 300cp 1 healer 1 dd and an 810cp tank
810cp tank dropped group at door 300cp healer called to kick 300cp dd when i put i wont kick without reason being seen 1st 300 healer dropped group , picked up healer and tank and walked right on through it even did hm for the 300cp because tho he was low cp he tried to pull his even tho his lvl just didnt put them on par with an 700cp giving myself and the tank picked them up 5xs or so each i wouldnt say lets go do no death with him but id invite them for just about any vet dlc run
SO never base your kicks on cp only give everyone the freedom to show themselves as an player or not

twev

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

I don't mean to sound so negative. But why?

Look I get it, alot of us have been around forever, but you need to stop treating your fellow players like total garbage.
I get pissed off in dungeons too with lowbie dps, or people running the wrong food and ***, but does it tilt you so much to take two seconds and say 'hey man, what food you running?' and give some feedback?

If you want 'solid runs', don't run pugs - Simple. I run pugs because I dont have a dedicated guild for that right now, Im not expecting the best, so I'll stop and talk with someone about their stats and stuff, if it's effecting the group that much.

Ever since this event started (and before, I wont lie), I've encountered more and more garbage people who arent even pulling their own weight coming in and trash talking people who are at least trying. Idc what your CP is, don't kick someone before the first mobs are even pulled coz you don't like their CP. Just makes you look like you cant pull your weight without being carried yourself.

I am frequently surprised by low end CP players. And Honestly I've had enough of watching them get flamed in chats because YOU can't do the mechanics and YOU can't spare two seconds of your life.

Go queue with your guild. Leave them alone for god sakes, They're trying.

I spend a lot of time trying to help newbs. I remember being one, and having little clue what to expect. There were a few players who helped me along more than I deserved, and I'm still friends with some of them who are still in game.

But, honestly, many/most of the newbs I run into in game can't be bothered to even respond when communicated with, or can be surly with the first few communications offering help, and some of the help includes offering to make them stuff to help get them started, and gold to buy some inventory, and a mount.

Even some of the positive newbs I've dealt with just disappear after a few weeks.

I'd say that a lot more than half of my dealings with newbs on a general basis makes me want to solo and sorry I even tried.

I understand the game can be complex and daunting, but golly-gee, willikers, experience with newbs can often be unpleasant at times.

Pauwer

Live and let live, nothing more silly than flaming others. And if you don't have fun while playing the game, everything pisses you off, maybe it is time to quit. It's like alcohol, man. When you enjoy some and have fun, it's great! When it becomes a compulsory thing and gives you only grief, you have a problem.

Grandchamp1989

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

I don't mean to sound so negative. But why?

Look I get it, alot of us have been around forever, but you need to stop treating your fellow players like total garbage.
I get pissed off in dungeons too with lowbie dps, or people running the wrong food and ***, but does it tilt you so much to take two seconds and say 'hey man, what food you running?' and give some feedback?

If you want 'solid runs', don't run pugs - Simple. I run pugs because I dont have a dedicated guild for that right now, Im not expecting the best, so I'll stop and talk with someone about their stats and stuff, if it's effecting the group that much.

Ever since this event started (and before, I wont lie), I've encountered more and more garbage people who arent even pulling their own weight coming in and trash talking people who are at least trying. Idc what your CP is, don't kick someone before the first mobs are even pulled coz you don't like their CP. Just makes you look like you cant pull your weight without being carried yourself.

I am frequently surprised by low end CP players. And Honestly I've had enough of watching them get flamed in chats because YOU can't do the mechanics and YOU can't spare two seconds of your life.

Go queue with your guild. Leave them alone for god sakes, They're trying.

We tried that, some [snip] 810 wanted to kick the cp400 guy in v moongrave.
We didn't let him. So he protested by standing still and asking to be kicked to avoid the penalty timer.
We didn't kick him. We waited it out.

Weird idea to judge people before they have a chance to show how they play..

I have seen decent cp 400 and horrible cp810

cp isn't all.

[Edited to remove Profanity]

Grandchamp1989

zvavi wrote: »

Because when I tell 810 CP players that they need to interrupt the boss or he one shots the tank in vMHK they smirk at you and tell you that they run the dungeon over 10 times and know mechanics.

It was in a run advertised as a no death run in guild chats. Obviously after I already died to being executed by the boss.

I mean, you ask why we are mean, and not helping, not giving advice. I don't kick, but the reason I stopped actively giving advice, because people are *** to you when you do.

This is the truth right here. People are venting.. They have a bad they and they take it out on you if they can.

Better to just play in offline mode so you can't get whisper's when you leave the group.

iksde

my experience from last few days
1) when I was going help my friend to farm CoH1, we were duo, to get queue faster we was fake tank and healer, not problem for us, we didnt need to care who we will get because we could do this dung alone but my friend had more drop from full group to get better chance for item se he was farming

we was literally carring most of the time random here, one even stayed for few runs with us, around 300cp, he was doing nothing xD but as and he was seeing this he started talking to us and he was admiring us how we are like on steroids in compare to him and so we explained to him some and helped like with sets which he has to change for what, it was very good

2) vMHK - I with 2 friends, we were missing only tank, we got 1st tank - idk if fake or nnot but maybe 30k health with tank weapons...we tried him to 1st boss which is very close at beggining, he didnt stay 1st harder hit of boss and we just nuked this boss with 3dd without any tank help for most of this fight so we knew he wont go further in this dung.
We get another tank...now he was literally someone from pvp now knowing even basics, 1h&shield and 2h sword and spamming uppercut on enemies not even taunting them lol, so you know what we had to do

and last tank here, almost 35k health...he was bad tank but not that bad xD he didnt knew not only this dung but many harder things which are to o for tank but he knew the basics and wsn't tankly enough at all....but was enough fopr us, for our dps with burning mechanics, adds to just carry him as at the end we had even laugh of him and his priorities xD

3) I solo wen on vMoS, tank and healer was fine, tank was 300+ cp but 2nd dd wasn't fine with almost cap cp
I was doing 80% of damage on 1st boss, 2nd dd was doing only LA spam from bow
so after my experience before with simliar things not only once I just stated facts on group and told them to kick me if they want becaause Im not going to struggle with player like this on harder dung, tank and healer understood this and case this is not easiest dungeon so they voted to kick this bad dps which for true...he wont do anything good in group for group to be able to beat this dungeon while doing such low especially when on next boss when we in triow as waiting for last mate to find...we just killed this boss in trio and my dps wasn't specially higher in % of group dmg without this 2nd dd telling me this even oth of our uspport roles was doing more damage than him

so I dont think keeping player like this in harder dungeon is good thing only to be nice in cost of not being able to beat this dung at all...



and so I had simliar cases like with vMHK in last few days on dlc dungs where we as just getting so low dps he was not *** anything helpfull for group, if that was basic dungeon or normal then no problem but v DLC dungs...nty

sorry for elitism or toxicity but I wont go for carry bad players in hard dungeons, this is not the way, all I can do for them is also ask if they need help and then explain them what to change if they want, if they are even reading chat at all but I wont them make suddenly to deal decent damage on this dung

if on harder dung will get both so low dps players...they will struggle with just 1st trash mobs pack showing them they wont be even able to beat 1st boss so this is reason why dont keep and low DD in group just to carry him for ourself additional struggle for carrying him...just as why to carry random in cost of our time and enjoy of doing dung but so doing it worse than normally for someone we dont even know?

vamp_emily

It's just human nature at its best. Some people like being friendly and some people are mental abusers.

Thanks the the players that carried me the other day. I was in a vet DLC dungeon as a healer and there was a few times I died so fast from fire. They rezzed me just to see me die again. Towards the end, I think they figured it was just best to let me lie there dead so they could focus on the boss.