Community, Why are you like this?

StevieKingslayer

I don't mean to sound so negative. But why?

Look I get it, alot of us have been around forever, but you need to stop treating your fellow players like total garbage.
I get pissed off in dungeons too with lowbie dps, or people running the wrong food and ***, but does it tilt you so much to take two seconds and say 'hey man, what food you running?' and give some feedback?

If you want 'solid runs', don't run pugs - Simple. I run pugs because I dont have a dedicated guild for that right now, Im not expecting the best, so I'll stop and talk with someone about their stats and stuff, if it's effecting the group that much.

Ever since this event started (and before, I wont lie), I've encountered more and more garbage people who arent even pulling their own weight coming in and trash talking people who are at least trying. Idc what your CP is, don't kick someone before the first mobs are even pulled coz you don't like their CP. Just makes you look like you cant pull your weight without being carried yourself.

I am frequently surprised by low end CP players. And Honestly I've had enough of watching them get flamed in chats because YOU can't do the mechanics and YOU can't spare two seconds of your life.

Go queue with your guild. Leave them alone for god sakes, They're trying.

Lord_Hev

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

I am frequently surprised by low end CP players. And Honestly I've had enough of watching them get flamed in chats because YOU can't do the mechanics and YOU can't spare two seconds of your life.

Go queue with your guild. Leave them alone for god sakes, They're trying.

Yea, I've had runs with low cp peeps that actually do a solid rotation and know the mechanics of the dungeon and it leaves me very pleasantly surprised. Maybe not yet good enough for certain achievements or HMs of the DLC vet dungeons. But smooth and I don't even have to say a word. Then I'll have a group where first impressions thing look solid, you know max CP, etc... And the run is disastrous. XD

Shokner

Hey normally i only come to the forums on maintance/patch days to bash the dev's but I fully agree with everything you say, and had to give you an awesome I wish there was a lot more thinking like this. There's an elite idiocy in the game that think putting people down is a great way to start a dungeon apparently they were never a Noob you know.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

I must say my experience (on PC-EU) is quite the opposite, at least most of the time. Almost every time I end up getting a random person or two for a dungeon run, filling out any spots we can't populate with guild mates at that particular time, they are friendly, communicative, and either adequately skilled or mostly open to suggestions if there is any need for it. Random runs with nice people is a major recruiting base for the nice guilds I'm in.

I'm sorry if your experience differs from mine, and I don't doubt you. I just wanted to say that it's not a general problem with all players. At the very least it's not a problem for me, but I doubt that I am the only lucky person in that respect.

I should say that I never pug vet dungeons or trials. After some bad experiences, although still nowhere near a majority of the runs, I do those with guild friends only.

StevieKingslayer

Shokner wrote: »

Hey normally i only come to the forums on maintance/patch days to bash the dev's but I fully agree with everything you say, and had to give you an awesome I wish there was a lot more thinking like this. There's an elite idiocy in the game that think putting people down is a great way to start a dungeon apparently they were never a Noob you know.

I was a noob once. I feel the struggle. Pisses me off a fair bit. You can say you're annoyed, You don't gotta flame people.

StevieKingslayer

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

I must say my experience (on PC-EU) is quite the opposite, at least most of the time. Almost every time I end up getting a random person or two for a dungeon run, filling out any spots we can't populate with guild mates at that particular time, they are friendly, communicative, and either adequately skilled or mostly open to suggestions if there is any need for it. Random runs with nice people is a major recruiting base for the nice guilds I'm in.

I'm sorry if your experience differs from mine, and I don't doubt you. I just wanted to say that it's not a general problem with all players. At the very least it's not a problem for me, but I doubt that I am the only lucky person in that respect.

I should say that I never pug vet dungeons or trials. After some bad experiences, although still nowhere near a majority of the runs, I do those with guild friends only.

I hear mixed things in regards to NA/EU. I play only on NA. My experience? Mostly negative ngl, there was some great runs, usually with lowbies funnily enough. Ofc I go "hmm" when they join, but I give them the chance to show what they got, and usually they got it. Frustrates me when people automatically vote to kick people based on preconceived notions. We all have them, but you don't need to act out of hand - People need chances. We were all CP 50 once.

Lord_Hev

Shokner wrote: »

Hey normally i only come to the forums on maintance/patch days to bash the dev's but I fully agree with everything you say, and had to give you an awesome I wish there was a lot more thinking like this. There's an elite idiocy in the game that think putting people down is a great way to start a dungeon apparently they were never a Noob you know.

It's not elitist idiocy. It's a projection from their insecurities. Half of them don't even actually know mechanics. They think the solution is just "burn the boss" and then the group wipes because they are not paying attention to mechanics while blaming everyone else for the group wipe they contribute to XD.

Sarannah

Agreed!

As a tank I never watch anything other players do, or have. And unless there is a real issue, I never will. This makes me one happy puppy!

I trust in other players to know what they are doing, and this doesn't seem like a wrong assumption. Flaming others because they do not do exactly what you would do is just crazy, as everyone plays their own way. Flaming players is always wrong, just kick or explain it to them!

PS: I only pug vets, and I am not in a guild.

Shokner

@stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO the problem is there's a certain types of players don't seem to realize not everyone has mates to play the game with even guilds can tend to just cater for a certain CP lvl player even if they say they include lower lvl's it tends not to be the case, theres so much info to take in even watching videos to get better is no substitue for being shown what gear suites what role or you may not have been able to grind that gear alone in some cases.

Liukke

I get your point and sadly it's like this a bit of everywhere (at least every MMO I've played had this kind of community).

We all come from different social backgrounds, many have happy lives and play games for fun, have the time to play and help others.
Some of us are adults, capable of dealing with people, others are children, literally on the lower teen years and they think their world is the best and everything should go around it.
There are also people with quite terrible lives, probably bullied at school or even in family, other trapped in unwanted relationships and gaming transforms into an escape way from quite a stressful time.
This translates into people channeling their anger and stress into others, overreacting and insulting or simply not having the patience to "play" a game with others.

I don't think there's a solution for this except a psychological test while you sign in :'D

My PC-EU experience is thankfully positive, with most of the dungeons being enjoyable and people being great.
I imagine the console servers are more kids oriented and therefore you find an hormone-fest with alpha people dictating the rules of the game.

The best you can do is to filter them out, or trying to talk them into more reasonable thinking, after all it's a game.
Don't care too much, it happens, the game experience is made by people and people are social animals which behave with quite predictable results, you can never have a clean community (but somehow, the fun comes also from confrontation and clashes, why not).

Jaimeh

I'm tired of threads dividing the community into pissy elitists and nice noobs, when in fact it's everything in-between. I've seen new players who spat on you when offered to explain a mechanic, and I've seen veterans who are generous with their knowledge, time, and materials. I've personally spend a fair amount after dungeons talking builds with new playets, given free skyreach levelling runs to strangers, and point people to resources and guides, but not everyone will have that inclination or time. It doesn't mean they have to be rude to new players, but sometimes inexperieneced players (especially during events) will do a content they are completely unprepared for and not even give a heads up. The community as a whole, is actually very generous, I routinely see twitter posts of people sharing kind exchanges or encounters they have in game. It might not seem so in the pug finder during a dungeon event, because of the pressure to get the thing done, but it's not a true reflection of the community.

Nordic__Knights

all im going to say here is THANK YOU FOR POST

StevieKingslayer

Sarannah wrote: »

Agreed!

As a tank I never watch anything other players do, or have. And unless there is a real issue, I never will. This makes me one happy puppy!

I trust in other players to know what they are doing, and this doesn't seem like a wrong assumption. Flaming others because they do not do exactly what you would do is just crazy, as everyone plays their own way. Flaming players is always wrong, just kick or explain it to them!

PS: I only pug vets, and I am not in a guild.

Exactly. If there is absolutely no way the dungeon can get done with that person, I will say 'Hey mate, your not ready, go grab this and come back, add me and we'll try again', or I'll give them food or something. Just kicking, with zero explanation is rude af!

StevieKingslayer

Jaimeh wrote: »

I'm tired of threads dividing the community into pissy elitists and nice noobs, when in fact it's everything in-between. I've seen new players who spat on you when offered to explain a mechanic, and I've seen veterans who are generous with their knowledge, time, and materials. I've personally spend a fair amount after dungeons talking builds with new playets, given free skyreach levelling runs to strangers, and point people to resources and guides, but not everyone will have that inclination or time. It doesn't mean they have to be rude to new players, but sometimes inexperieneced players (especially during events) will do a content they are completely unprepared for and not even give a heads up. The community as a whole, is actually very generous, I routinely see twitter posts of people sharing kind exchanges or encounters they have in game. It might not seem so in the pug finder during a dungeon event, because of the pressure to get the thing done, but it's not a true reflection of the community.

It's only dividing to those it's targeted at. And if they are offended, not my problem. Yes, there is a good side of the community, I don't deny that - But this post is about the absolute abuse I've seen the lower cp take in the last few days thanks to the 'older players' (me being one of them) and Im tired of it. Some positive interactions on twitter do not mean the community is good, some negative posts do not mean the community is bad. This is a post to potentially, hopefully, make some of those people feeling abused lately with this event to know that some of us do care about them, and acknowledge that they are trying, and to address that there is a problem in the community, and some positive twitter posts don't hide that fact.

zaria

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

I must say my experience (on PC-EU) is quite the opposite, at least most of the time. Almost every time I end up getting a random person or two for a dungeon run, filling out any spots we can't populate with guild mates at that particular time, they are friendly, communicative, and either adequately skilled or mostly open to suggestions if there is any need for it. Random runs with nice people is a major recruiting base for the nice guilds I'm in.

I'm sorry if your experience differs from mine, and I don't doubt you. I just wanted to say that it's not a general problem with all players. At the very least it's not a problem for me, but I doubt that I am the only lucky person in that respect.

I should say that I never pug vet dungeons or trials. After some bad experiences, although still nowhere near a majority of the runs, I do those with guild friends only.

Agree here, now the negativity in dungeons tend to be people just leaving after a wipe and some solo players who just run ahead without telling others to follow close.
Later is more common during events as much more farm dungeons over and than usual.

Shokner

End of the day anyone who joins "randoms" needs to understand what that stands for that's the first and only mechanic you need to know when playing with absolute strangers.

etchedpixels

The 'leet uber dd who pugged with you for a pledge is (for most dungeons) pugging because they are not good enough to solo it 8).


Random normals is a bit different and it would be good if ESO allowed solo/partial group runs for that in the finder so the folks who really don't need anyone else can just solo them and keep everyone happier.

StevieKingslayer

Shokner wrote: »

End of the day anyone who joins "randoms" needs to understand what that stands for that's the first and only mechanic you need to know when playing with absolute strangers.

100%. Im tired of seeing people railed on because they died. It's not a no death, it's a random, with randoms. Don't abuse people. If you want a perfect run, say something at the start at least, otherwise I got five tabs open and Im barely paying attention Im just doing the content.

Dracane

When you are good enough and confident in your abilities, then the skill level of pugs will hardly matter except in the most terror of DLC dungeons.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Last night I tanked vet hm Blackheart Haven (one of the pledges) with a guild group that had no vet experience at all. We cleared it just fine, and it even ended up being a no-death run. The group included a random healer. We started out doing normal BH because my two guild mates were afraid to try vet. After we cleared it with ease I suggested the performance of the group was more than adequate to do vet, persuaded them to try their first 2 keys run, and the healer tagged along, after being assured that two members of our group were also "vet virgins".

The group had somewhat low damage (far below what elitists would consider the threshold to kick), so it wasn't exactly a speed run, but it was a most enjoyable experience indeed.

These things keep happening in ESO. That's why I am still here after six years.

StevieKingslayer

etchedpixels wrote: »

The 'leet uber dd who pugged with you for a pledge is (for most dungeons) pugging because they are not good enough to solo it 8).


Random normals is a bit different and it would be good if ESO allowed solo/partial group runs for that in the finder so the folks who really don't need anyone else can just solo them and keep everyone happier.

You can solo those dungeons, I have myself. Not the DLC's, but all base dungeons are solo if we're talking about the same type of people. I mean, I dont even care if a DD wants to run off and do all the work, cool banana's bro you do you, but if the healer is struggling to heal your ass because you've run off and ditched everyone, how is it fair to rail on the healer? Thats the point Im trying to get across - Thats the kinda behaviour I have been seeing and it's lowkey annoying.

I agree with you, I kinda wish there was two player dungeons or something. Rather than just grouping and teleporting in. Would give the l33t crew something to do apart from harass the queues, lmao.

zvavi

Because when I tell 810 CP players that they need to interrupt the boss or he one shots the tank in vMHK they smirk at you and tell you that they run the dungeon over 10 times and know mechanics.

It was in a run advertised as a no death run in guild chats. Obviously after I already died to being executed by the boss.

I mean, you ask why we are mean, and not helping, not giving advice. I don't kick, but the reason I stopped actively giving advice, because people are *** to you when you do.

StevieKingslayer

zvavi wrote: »

Because when I tell 810 CP players that they need to interrupt the boss or he one shots the tank in vMHK they smirk at you and tell you that they run the dungeon over 10 times and know mechanics.

It was in a run advertised as a no death run in guild chats. Obviously after I already died to being executed by the boss.

I mean, you ask why we are mean, and not helping, not giving advice. I don't kick, but the reason I stopped actively giving advice, because people are *** to you when you do.

Fair. But one point. You said guild chat. Im talking about pug queue.
Guild runs are fair game, and advertised as such is fair game to complain.

Lord_Hev

When I pug a Vet DLC dungeon and I see a low CP. My first thought is not "OMG KICK HIM OR ELSE HORRIBLE RUN." Rather im on my tank or my DPS, I see it as a challenge if anything lol. I'll ask if they and the rest of the group are familiar with current dungeon, and I can help explain mechanics if needed

If your first inclination is to kick... that's an insecurity complex. It's a game, and this is a random que system. Help encourage healthy community and help people who are starting out. Make it a positive experience for them, and if they are lacking but are responsive and chat and willing to learn, then give some tips. I've finished vet dlc dungeons with the other dps struggling to pull their weight, but I still had fun. And at the end of it, they had a blast and couldn't believe they got it done. People like that will take that advice given and work on their builds, and will likely return and be even better. This maintains a nice community for the group finder to pull from.


Now of course there's also the people that don't know what they are doing and are unresponsive and unwilling to change or even acknowledge anything. That's up to the group to decide to kick at that point. But at least make the attempt to engage.

zvavi

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Because when I tell 810 CP players that they need to interrupt the boss or he one shots the tank in vMHK they smirk at you and tell you that they run the dungeon over 10 times and know mechanics.

It was in a run advertised as a no death run in guild chats. Obviously after I already died to being executed by the boss.

I mean, you ask why we are mean, and not helping, not giving advice. I don't kick, but the reason I stopped actively giving advice, because people are *** to you when you do.

Fair. But one point. You said guild chat. Im talking about pug queue.
Guild runs are fair game, and advertised as such is fair game to complain.

I used it as example because it was my most recent advice giving. If you want another example then a dungeon earlier, with pugs, I told the tank not to keep adds as close to the boss because they enrage and he dies, he just ignored me and kept doing the same. Those 2 examples are from yesterday. And are the last 2 times I gave advice. Do you wanna go back and backtrack on my various tries to make wipes less wipes and see how people react to them? People are *** to you, out of every 100 times you are nice, you will be 60% ignored, 30% talked back to, and 10% helpful. ye I might be a masochist for keep trying, but that's why people stopped helping.

Nordic__Knights

zvavi wrote: »

Because when I tell 810 CP players that they need to interrupt the boss or he one shots the tank in vMHK they smirk at you and tell you that they run the dungeon over 10 times and know mechanics.

It was in a run advertised as a no death run in guild chats. Obviously after I already died to being executed by the boss.

I mean, you ask why we are mean, and not helping, not giving advice. I don't kick, but the reason I stopped actively giving advice, because people are *** to you when you do.

if your having bad guild runs id say teach your guild better or get an ranking system in play for it but whats being talked about here is pug groups where anyone CAN BE PLACED WITH YOU even the one arm man wanting to see what its all about

Jaimeh

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

I'm tired of threads dividing the community into pissy elitists and nice noobs, when in fact it's everything in-between. I've seen new players who spat on you when offered to explain a mechanic, and I've seen veterans who are generous with their knowledge, time, and materials. I've personally spend a fair amount after dungeons talking builds with new playets, given free skyreach levelling runs to strangers, and point people to resources and guides, but not everyone will have that inclination or time. It doesn't mean they have to be rude to new players, but sometimes inexperieneced players (especially during events) will do a content they are completely unprepared for and not even give a heads up. The community as a whole, is actually very generous, I routinely see twitter posts of people sharing kind exchanges or encounters they have in game. It might not seem so in the pug finder during a dungeon event, because of the pressure to get the thing done, but it's not a true reflection of the community.

It's only dividing to those it's targeted at. And if they are offended, not my problem. Yes, there is a good side of the community, I don't deny that - But this post is about the absolute abuse I've seen the lower cp take in the last few days thanks to the 'older players' (me being one of them) and Im tired of it. Some positive interactions on twitter do not mean the community is good, some negative posts do not mean the community is bad. This is a post to potentially, hopefully, make some of those people feeling abused lately with this event to know that some of us do care about them, and acknowledge that they are trying, and to address that there is a problem in the community, and some positive twitter posts don't hide that fact.

The positive posts from twitter were just an example, because usually the forums tend to focus on complaints, and also a big part of the community doesn't use them. Also, the negative posts are more prevalent during events--again it's not the whole picture. It's good to let low CP player (and all players, since you can get bad behaviours even within all 810CP groups) know that if they had a negative experience, it's not how all of the game is, but I personally don't like the demonization of the comminuty because of a few people with bad attitude problems.

StevieKingslayer

zvavi wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Because when I tell 810 CP players that they need to interrupt the boss or he one shots the tank in vMHK they smirk at you and tell you that they run the dungeon over 10 times and know mechanics.

It was in a run advertised as a no death run in guild chats. Obviously after I already died to being executed by the boss.

I mean, you ask why we are mean, and not helping, not giving advice. I don't kick, but the reason I stopped actively giving advice, because people are *** to you when you do.

Fair. But one point. You said guild chat. Im talking about pug queue.
Guild runs are fair game, and advertised as such is fair game to complain.

I used it as example because it was my most recent advice giving. If you want another example then a dungeon earlier, with pugs, I told the tank not to keep adds as close to the boss because they enrage and he dies, he just ignored me and kept doing the same. Those 2 examples are from yesterday. And are the last 2 times I gave advice. Do you wanna go back and backtrack on my various tries to make wipes less wipes and see how people react to them? People are *** to you, out of every 100 times you are nice, you will be 60% ignored, 30% talked back to, and 10% helpful. ye I might be a masochist for keep trying, but that's why people stopped helping.

K but that means you keep the cycle going by potentially blacklisting and being a jerk to others? I fail to see the logic.

zvavi

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Because when I tell 810 CP players that they need to interrupt the boss or he one shots the tank in vMHK they smirk at you and tell you that they run the dungeon over 10 times and know mechanics.

It was in a run advertised as a no death run in guild chats. Obviously after I already died to being executed by the boss.

I mean, you ask why we are mean, and not helping, not giving advice. I don't kick, but the reason I stopped actively giving advice, because people are *** to you when you do.

if your having bad guild runs id say teach your guild better or get an ranking system in play for it but whats being talked about here is pug groups where anyone CAN BE PLACED WITH YOU even the one arm man wanting to see what its all about

It was not gathered by me, but another guy in the guild, from guilds I don't really know, it was practically a pug run for me. I just gave it as an example to why people stop giving advice.

AWinterWolf

Honestly, it's potluck what pugs/people you get. While I agree it takes two seconds, I admit I'm only human and I get incredibly frustrated at people who don't say when they don't know mechanics in a vDLC (I always ask people this) and think they can just wing it.

If you don't ask, you might not know and therefore, might cause endless wipes. After a few wipes on one boss, I'm likely to call it quits and look elsewhere for a group.

Personally never kicked someone because of low CP, we were all lower levels once, as for advice, if I can offer it, I will do, but I don't like giving unsolicited advice, apart from maybe, a whisper like, 'hey, I think your food's run out.'

The only times I kick someone can vary, but usually it's because they are rude/toxic.

Do I think it's elitist to question whether a pug can do content? No.

Personally, I tend to keep it to myself and wait and see. 9 times out of 10, I'm pleasantly surprised by the pugs I've found and a lot of my friends list consists of people I've met in dungeons.

StevieKingslayer

Jaimeh wrote: »

StevieKingslayer wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

I'm tired of threads dividing the community into pissy elitists and nice noobs, when in fact it's everything in-between. I've seen new players who spat on you when offered to explain a mechanic, and I've seen veterans who are generous with their knowledge, time, and materials. I've personally spend a fair amount after dungeons talking builds with new playets, given free skyreach levelling runs to strangers, and point people to resources and guides, but not everyone will have that inclination or time. It doesn't mean they have to be rude to new players, but sometimes inexperieneced players (especially during events) will do a content they are completely unprepared for and not even give a heads up. The community as a whole, is actually very generous, I routinely see twitter posts of people sharing kind exchanges or encounters they have in game. It might not seem so in the pug finder during a dungeon event, because of the pressure to get the thing done, but it's not a true reflection of the community.

It's only dividing to those it's targeted at. And if they are offended, not my problem. Yes, there is a good side of the community, I don't deny that - But this post is about the absolute abuse I've seen the lower cp take in the last few days thanks to the 'older players' (me being one of them) and Im tired of it. Some positive interactions on twitter do not mean the community is good, some negative posts do not mean the community is bad. This is a post to potentially, hopefully, make some of those people feeling abused lately with this event to know that some of us do care about them, and acknowledge that they are trying, and to address that there is a problem in the community, and some positive twitter posts don't hide that fact.

The positive posts from twitter were just an example, because usually the forums tend to focus on complaints, and also a big part of the community doesn't use them. Also, the negative posts are more prevalent during events--again it's not the whole picture. It's good to let low CP player (and all players, since you can get bad behaviours even within all 810CP groups) know that if they had a negative experience, it's not how all of the game is, but I personally don't like the demonization of the comminuty because of a few people with bad attitude problems.

Im hardly demonizing the community, Its a bait title to make y'all click which ya did. Its how forums work unfortunately.
As stated, by everyone here, there is varying experiences. I am commenting on mine, we are all able to make forum posts, or reply with our own experiences. I am simply putting my hand up for the ones who dont have forum accounts, and the ones that dont want to cause a scene. It makes people feel ***. I know, I've been there, we all have. If it is a bother, you need to not read it yeah? Its not aimed at you. The one's it's aimed at, know it's aimed at them. And they won't care, but I said my piece, and I have a clearer mind for it.