Can we talk about the Immov pot exploit please??

KuroyukiESO

Hey there guys, how's it goin. I'm just making this thread to bring some attention to the stupid immovability potion exploit in the game. For those of you who are unaware of it, typically, when a player tries to rez another player, or grab some kind of PvP objective i.e. a scroll, hammer, relic, etc, they can be bashed to stop them. Well, if you chug an immovability potion before hand, you can no longer be bashed and interrupted. Now, I am not entirely sure if this is intended or not, but it really needs to be addressed. Players are abusing this and making lot's of PvP scenarios an absolute unfun joke. nearly unkillable tanks will just sit on the bodies of their dead friends, and pop a pot to get off free rezzes. People will immov pot before every grab of a relic in BGs. People will pop a pot in the middle of two massive zergs to cheese a hammer grab. It makes PvP so unfun when you have to deal with this kind of nonsense and it really needs to be fixed.

How do you guys feel about this ecploit?

FrancisCrawford

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

KuroyukiESO

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

Not at all. Immovability potions just give you CC immunity. Regular CC immunity has never stopped people from being bashed in these animations before. It has only been like this for a few patches.

Pauwer

Hmm hmm, i wouldn't call it exploit but using a consumable, like it is supposed to do that maybe. Im not sure either what the funcion should cover like are you supposed to be immune to interruption. It only lasts few seconds anyway. I do have another problem with the potion myself. It doesnt seem to work always. I pop one and a sec later i bend the knee to the enemy. Happens all the time. Hate it.

JobooAGS

Pauwer wrote: »

Hmm hmm, i wouldn't call it exploit but using a consumable, like it is supposed to do that maybe. Im not sure either what the funcion should cover like are you supposed to be immune to interruption. It only lasts few seconds anyway. I do have another problem with the potion myself. It doesnt seem to work always. I pop one and a sec later i bend the knee to the enemy. Happens all the time. Hate it.

If it is working as intended, then there is literally 0 counterplay against a high hp tank grabbing a relic. You cannot bash such player to prevent them from getting the relic despite such a build not being able to do damage outside of sets like harbinger. Killing them is proved ti be difficult due to high hp and anyone with half a brain on that person’s team will heal such a player or at least cover them while they grab the relic.

Imo relic grabbers should be bashable 100% of the time

Thoragaal

Being completely uninterruptable from "what ever you're doing" with an immovable pot has been a thing for several years.
I don't know if it stopped working for some time, but it's definitely not a new thing.

Let them grab whatever they want and kill them afterwards, since the potion only last 10sec. Almost completely unkillable players is another issue though, which I do think should be adressed. However, I don't think it's that easy to adress the issue without simultanously limiting the "play the way you want" and "everyone should be able to experience everything".

Joy_Division

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

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FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

Not at all. Immovability potions just give you CC immunity. Regular CC immunity has never stopped people from being bashed in these animations before. It has only been like this for a few patches.

Was changed years ago. CC Immunity = no bash / interrupt

KuroyukiESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

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KuroyukiESO wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

Not at all. Immovability potions just give you CC immunity. Regular CC immunity has never stopped people from being bashed in these animations before. It has only been like this for a few patches.

Was changed years ago. CC Immunity = no bash / interrupt

Nope, I was playing "years ago". CC immunity means you can't be bashed out of cast time abilities. Not rezzes and pickup animations. That's why you can bash the same rez over and over. No, this is new. Not this patch new, but a few months for sure.

Qbiken

Saw this happening a few patches ago and I can't see this being intended whatsoever. As you say, it removes all kind of counterplay in relic games and makes it impossible to prevent someone taking your relic. I see this being abused in every single Capture the relic match I enter.

This used to work with the heavy armor ability immovable as well, but was eventually fixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Please bring attention to this and fix it asap.

Zer0_CooL

Speaking of exploits, could we also adress the flag exploit where people take my homekeep by just standing at the flag.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

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FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

Not at all. Immovability potions just give you CC immunity. Regular CC immunity has never stopped people from being bashed in these animations before. It has only been like this for a few patches.

This is half true.
Being interrupted whilst picking up relics or repairing/burning siege has been in the game since the interrupt CC immunity change about 2 years ago now.

The thing which is an exploit and was only recently (6-8 months ago) broken was resing whilst CC immune. The thing with the res CC immune exploit is that it is only certain potions which allow it. Normal Stunned CC immunity doesn't - You can still be interrupted whilst resing. This is why the potion part of it is an exploit whereas the picking up of relics / burning or putting out siege isn't an exploit and is just intended behaviour (regardless of how poor that behaviour is).

BaiterOfZergs

I played bgs since they came out and I don’t remember people exploiting pots to pick up the relics. If anything Zos patched most things to stop people from doing it. So when did the change happen? I did try to bash a tank necro recently and it didn’t work.

Grimlok_S

I'm with Joy on this one.

Thinking of fighting sorcs as an example, if fighting a pet sorc a solid tactic used to be

Kill the bird -> bash the summon, and as long as you could keep on top of them they would wither while trying to resummon the bird.

Same with dark deal, used to be able to bash while cc immune IF you were fast enough to keep up with the sorc.

Now, you have to be more selective in your bashes, as interrupting their dark deal near high health just allows 2 free casts while cc immune.

Odd choice, but has been this way for quite some time.

KuroyukiESO

The bug has nothing to do with skills, I've already addressed this. It's specifically actions such as objective grabbing, and resurrection. These things were always bashable in the past, even through cc immunity. Now, when you use a potion and ONLY when you use a potion, you cannot be bashed out of those animations. Please make sure you understand what is being talked about before commenting on it. Yes, cast time abilities cannot and have not been bashable during immunity for a long time. But that is NOT what we are talking about.

FrancisCrawford

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

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Joy_Division wrote: »

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

Not at all. Immovability potions just give you CC immunity. Regular CC immunity has never stopped people from being bashed in these animations before. It has only been like this for a few patches.

Was changed years ago. CC Immunity = no bash / interrupt

Nope, I was playing "years ago". CC immunity means you can't be bashed out of cast time abilities. Not rezzes and pickup animations. That's why you can bash the same rez over and over. No, this is new. Not this patch new, but a few months for sure.

I've been using Immovable pots in PvE to enable rezzes a lot longer than that.

KuroyukiESO

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

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KuroyukiESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

Not at all. Immovability potions just give you CC immunity. Regular CC immunity has never stopped people from being bashed in these animations before. It has only been like this for a few patches.

Was changed years ago. CC Immunity = no bash / interrupt

Nope, I was playing "years ago". CC immunity means you can't be bashed out of cast time abilities. Not rezzes and pickup animations. That's why you can bash the same rez over and over. No, this is new. Not this patch new, but a few months for sure.

I've been using Immovable pots in PvE to enable rezzes a lot longer than that.

That is irrelevant, because you cannot be bashed in PvE. Regular stun and interrupt bash are two different things

Gilvoth

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

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Joy_Division wrote: »

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

Not at all. Immovability potions just give you CC immunity. Regular CC immunity has never stopped people from being bashed in these animations before. It has only been like this for a few patches.

Was changed years ago. CC Immunity = no bash / interrupt

Nope, I was playing "years ago". CC immunity means you can't be bashed out of cast time abilities. Not rezzes and pickup animations. That's why you can bash the same rez over and over. No, this is new. Not this patch new, but a few months for sure.

you are correct, it needs to be removed from the way they are using it in pvp.
i don't like it, and it is in my opinion an exploit.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

For those interested on when the interrupt changes were made - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4853841/#Comment_4853841

At the time resing was a special rule - you are always meant to be able to be interrupted during a res.

Metemsycosis

^

Wing

i mean i feel like its been this way for years, there are alot of people who dont even know this is a thing.


i guess it depends on what kind of gameplay you want to promote:

if you let immovable pots ignore bash, then people can grab relics, hammer, rez, etc. in a limited window with immunity.

if you remove it, then its possible to permanently stop the same, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.



so i guess its about vision, worst case scenario, an unkillable warden tank takes your relic and there is nothing you can do about it.

other worse case scenario, an unkillable warden tank is sitting on their relic, bashing you every time you try to take it, and there is nothing you can do about it.

. . .

solution?

deathmatch only please, or balance the game, i dont know, something.

Joy_Division

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

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Joy_Division wrote: »

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

Not at all. Immovability potions just give you CC immunity. Regular CC immunity has never stopped people from being bashed in these animations before. It has only been like this for a few patches.

Was changed years ago. CC Immunity = no bash / interrupt

Nope, I was playing "years ago". CC immunity means you can't be bashed out of cast time abilities. Not rezzes and pickup animations. That's why you can bash the same rez over and over. No, this is new. Not this patch new, but a few months for sure.

Hmm, I see what you are saying. I agree that "years ago" the change was as you describe. But the immov pot scenario has been in the game for quite a while now that I think of it. I used to be in a guild with a person who shall go nameless who is aware of every single rules inconsistency in ESO and I remember him saying he used an immovable pot to pick up a scroll and he'd ALWAYS be the one who picked it up even if 30 people were trying to get it. I haven't played with him since March.

As far as what I think about it, the whole idea of allowing players to easily circumvent intended counterplay (such as bash / interrupt) is dumb, especially when players get this immunity when they do nothing (such as when they get stunned). I never liked the changes made in the first place.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

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KuroyukiESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

How is this an exploit? It sounds like it's working as intended.

Not at all. Immovability potions just give you CC immunity. Regular CC immunity has never stopped people from being bashed in these animations before. It has only been like this for a few patches.

Was changed years ago. CC Immunity = no bash / interrupt

Nope, I was playing "years ago". CC immunity means you can't be bashed out of cast time abilities. Not rezzes and pickup animations. That's why you can bash the same rez over and over. No, this is new. Not this patch new, but a few months for sure.

Hmm, I see what you are saying. I agree that "years ago" the change was as you describe. But the immov pot scenario has been in the game for quite a while now that I think of it. I used to be in a guild with a person who shall go nameless who is aware of every single rules inconsistency in ESO and I remember him saying he used an immovable pot to pick up a scroll and he'd ALWAYS be the one who picked it up even if 30 people were trying to get it. I haven't played with him since March.

As far as what I think about it, the whole idea of allowing players to easily circumvent intended counterplay (such as bash / interrupt) is dumb, especially when players get this immunity when they do nothing (such as when they get stunned). I never liked the changes made in the first place.

Just to make it clear:

1) Picking up items such as Hammer/Scrolls, Cast time Abilities, Placing/Burning/Putting Out Siege cannot be interrupted when using an immove pot, or when just normally CC immune by design in the patch I linked.

Resing can be interrupted always when CC immune but NOT when immune via certain types of immove pot - Bug / Exploit (whatever you classify it/those using it).

There is also a 3rd category:
Repairing Walls/Doors/Bridges - Andy damage interrupts always, even when CC immune.

I agree that the change was a poor one but for slightly different reasons. I think there should be a cooldown one skills when you are interrupted (including trying to res). and Immunity should not make you immune to interrupt specific actions (deep breath/crushing shock/bash). Immunity should only prevent you being 'CC'd' out of a cast.

BaiterOfZergs

The changes to interrupts shouldn’t have anything to do with picking up a relic in bgs. That doesn’t sound like something that’s meant to be intentional, especially when zos has made changes in the past to prevent exploits with the relics.

wheem_ESO

If someone gets interrupted while trying to pick up a relic, they'll be staggered/CC'd and gain CC immunity. However, this immunity won't prevent them from being bashed again if they try to pick up the relic immediately after breaking free, and I fail to see why immovable potions should be treated any differently.

MurderMostFoul

wheem_ESO wrote: »

If someone gets interrupted while trying to pick up a relic, they'll be staggered/CC'd and gain CC immunity. However, this immunity won't prevent them from being bashed again if they try to pick up the relic immediately after breaking free, and I fail to see why immovable potions should be treated any differently.

This is the fundamental inconsistency that makes immovable pots seem broken.

Minyassa

I don't see how this is an exploit. That's what it's *for*. Potions have a duration and a cooldown. If someone has gone to the trouble of obtaining the pot, and learning to time their use for certain actions, they've learned how to use equipment to their advantage. Things that are to one person's advantage may be to someone else's disadvantage in PvP but that doesn't make it unfair. It's just how things work. Invisibility pots let me steal crap off a counter right in front of an NPC and there isn't a thing they can do about it--it would be no more or less fair if that NPC was another player, it just is what it is.

Grimlok_S

To be clarify I am all for removing anything making zombie-rezzing easier. I have seen this mechanic used in practice. Super frustrating when you aaaalmost have the wipe on a group but two stragglers keep you busy while a pve tank fires off rezzes.

I just understood this to be intended when they made the bash changes.

JobooAGS

Minyassa wrote: »

I don't see how this is an exploit. That's what it's *for*. Potions have a duration and a cooldown. If someone has gone to the trouble of obtaining the pot, and learning to time their use for certain actions, they've learned how to use equipment to their advantage. Things that are to one person's advantage may be to someone else's disadvantage in PvP but that doesn't make it unfair. It's just how things work. Invisibility pots let me steal crap off a counter right in front of an NPC and there isn't a thing they can do about it--it would be no more or less fair if that NPC was another player, it just is what it is.

When it makes a particular practice have literally 0 counterplay in a pvp sincerio other than to dps (a 60k hp tank with likely a pocket healer in under 3 seconds) then it is more than safe to say that is broken

erio

I cannot tell you how many times an immov pot to get my friend up has won me a fight. Please dont remove it, as it clearly is intended. Drinking an immov pot makes you IMMOVABLE.

if theyre just sitting on a body the person would have time to run back anyway so it doesnt matter

ThePedge

I wouldn't say it's an exploit.

When you get interrupted you do get stunned, and the potions grant you immunity to "disabling and knockback effects" if I remember correctly.

An oversight, perhaps. I don't know how you would separate the resurect interrupt from others. Because making CC immune players interruptible will negatively impact others, such as Sorc with Dark Deal/Exchange

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

ThePedge wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's an exploit.

When you get interrupted you do get stunned, and the potions grant you immunity to "disabling and knockback effects" if I remember correctly.

An oversight, perhaps. I don't know how you would separate the resurect interrupt from others. Because making CC immune players interruptible will negatively impact others, such as Sorc with Dark Deal/Exchange

Its for sure a bug. If you are CC Immune from a stun or knockback you can always be interrupted whilst resing still.
However if you take certain immove pots then you cannot be interrupted whilst resing.

CC immunity should function in the same way when applied via break free or potion .