Vrateshran Destro.

Sun7dance

And now remember the PTS:
The Vateshran Twoh-hander got a nerf, although nobody was talking about it.
But the Destro is perfectly fine?

And now just compare what you have to do for both proccs!

Firstmep

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

I've seen players using 2h and vateshran,

With Malacath's Band of Brutality.

With Crimson Twilight.

With Unfathomable Darkness.

This is the epitome of what it is like to clutch to a fotm.

Yeah it's great for stamplayers after the changes that makes light and heavy attacks scale of highest resource and how major breach change offers penetration to all damagetypes now.
A free to cast ranged skill that procs 2700 damage per second (3kish with malacath) gives major breach, mag regen and is ranged on top.

No reason to run snb for stam instead of frost staff. I rather take a no cleansable no losabe free 2.7k dps over gaining an extra 2.9 k penetration.
It's almost meta on EU now.

Yeah it doesnt actually do 3k dps on players, it actually can be LOS-d.

Still too strong, but lets keep things factual, friend.

Ariades_swe

Firstmep wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Kikazaru wrote: »

I've seen players using 2h and vateshran,

With Malacath's Band of Brutality.

With Crimson Twilight.

With Unfathomable Darkness.

This is the epitome of what it is like to clutch to a fotm.

Yeah it's great for stamplayers after the changes that makes light and heavy attacks scale of highest resource and how major breach change offers penetration to all damagetypes now.
A free to cast ranged skill that procs 2700 damage per second (3kish with malacath) gives major breach, mag regen and is ranged on top.

No reason to run snb for stam instead of frost staff. I rather take a no cleansable no losabe free 2.7k dps over gaining an extra 2.9 k penetration.
It's almost meta on EU now.

Yeah it doesnt actually do 3k dps on players, it actually can be LOS-d.

Still too strong, but lets keep things factual, friend.

I didn't said it was the damage against players look at my comment below where I clearly stated I meant TT value.
Reason I listed tooltip values is its impossible to state a fixed number on the damage it does against players cause of gear and cp setup.
When people list damage values on procs they usually bring up the tool tip value.
Also a few posts below I retracted my comment about los since I was wrong about that.

I'm not sure if it's too strong atm though.
Maybe on certain stamclasses in no cp but for my magplar I think it makes him just viable.

Waffennacht

I do not like the comparison to 2h Vateshran or MA. As the 2h are easier to apply and have an additional bonus for slotting them.

On 2h Vateshran, you dont even need to use the heavy attack aspect, just slotting it back bar on any stam class gives the wpn damage buff to the front bar.

No other weapon adds an additional benefit just for being slotted back bar. A benefit only stam classes can use.

While the destro can be arguably more effective on a stam class, as it gives them access to penetration and ranged LA HAs. Again mag cannot take the same advantage by using 2h anything.

Stampede can proc 2h MA backbar as the DoT from stampede ticks.

Therefore, imo, 2h MA and vateshran have a distinct advantage over destro and makes me less likely to advocate a nerf to Vate destro alone

Ariades_swe

Waffennacht wrote: »

I do not like the comparison to 2h Vateshran or MA. As the 2h are easier to apply and have an additional bonus for slotting them.

On 2h Vateshran, you dont even need to use the heavy attack aspect, just slotting it back bar on any stam class gives the wpn damage buff to the front bar.

No other weapon adds an additional benefit just for being slotted back bar. A benefit only stam classes can use.

While the destro can be arguably more effective on a stam class, as it gives them access to penetration and ranged LA HAs. Again mag cannot take the same advantage by using 2h anything.

Stampede can proc 2h MA backbar as the DoT from stampede ticks.

Therefore, imo, 2h MA and vateshran have a distinct advantage over destro and makes me less likely to advocate a nerf to Vate destro alone

On mag classes it's totally balanced.
I just don't like the fact that it's more effective on a stamden and to an extent a stamdk or a stamsorc than on my magplar in no cp.
A stamden in no cp really benefits from the elemental drain magregen for spamming the healthbased heal and the proc will be the most effective on a stamden as well since it got the most %buff to damages of all classes and the fact that the cp that improves damage types will be irrelevant.

I guess this is more of a stamden than a vateshran frost staff problem though.

mikey_reach

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I do not like the comparison to 2h Vateshran or MA. As the 2h are easier to apply and have an additional bonus for slotting them.

On 2h Vateshran, you dont even need to use the heavy attack aspect, just slotting it back bar on any stam class gives the wpn damage buff to the front bar.

No other weapon adds an additional benefit just for being slotted back bar. A benefit only stam classes can use.

While the destro can be arguably more effective on a stam class, as it gives them access to penetration and ranged LA HAs. Again mag cannot take the same advantage by using 2h anything.

Stampede can proc 2h MA backbar as the DoT from stampede ticks.

Therefore, imo, 2h MA and vateshran have a distinct advantage over destro and makes me less likely to advocate a nerf to Vate destro alone

On mag classes it's totally balanced.
I just don't like the fact that it's more effective on a stamden and to an extent a stamdk or a stamsorc than on my magplar in no cp.
A stamden in no cp really benefits from the elemental drain magregen for spamming the healthbased heal and the proc will be the most effective on a stamden as well since it got the most %buff to damages of all classes and the fact that the cp that improves damage types will be irrelevant.

I guess this is more of a stamden than a vateshran frost staff problem though.

Crazy how things like that are now possible, stam using ele drain with vateshran and mag builds using stam stuff like crimson not that crimson is necesarly stam its just that its initially though of that way because of the damage type. Things like that didnt make sense in past patches but now its completely viable and effective. Things like that i personally like(balance perspective aside) its pretty fun but really annoying to go up against. I hope we can get to a point where we can do that more commonly but i feel like its going to be hard to balance simply because in cyro its always been generally easier to play as stam specially cp due to rolls,block,sprint etc using stam.

DeHei

Its very strong and for sure overpowered... but other sets are overpowered too, so nerfing it is senseless...

Balance them all together or dont think about nerfing just 1 set!

Rhaegar75

It's grossly OP simply because it's a 1 tool that functions as a set: zero skills. Farm PvE content to then rock in PvP...really irritating!!

Stahlor

yes - it's good for noobs to fight noobs.