Update Alkosh, an outdated and under-tweaked set

jesse318sub17_ESO

The Alkosh 2-piece bonus should be weapon and spell critical, if you are going to encourage the use of this set for hybrid builds in a PvE and PvP environment by making it an even more powerful buff. I think it would be an interesting change, and reflect a duality in the use of the set.

MashmalloMan

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

jesse318sub17_ESO

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

paulsimonps

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

jesse318sub17_ESO

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.
Not to mention the gear selection we are given as tanks.... Yolnahkriin, Bloodlord's Embrace, and Alkosh.
But between the enhanced spell power and magicka recovery from Yolnahkriin and Bloodlord's Embrace, I feel Spell Critical would be fitting is all. (Especially since this can help with abilities that scale off of health for all classes, such as Dragon's Blood, Polar Wind, Sun Shield, Dark Cloak, Death Scythe, and Unstable Clanfear.)
The spell crit bonus would also benefit healers and magicka DPS that are using it, and the additional penetration given with the most recent change to Alkosh already benefitted stamina DPS the most.

idk

Zos has not encouraged, designed, or intended this set to be for hybrids. There is nothing in the set to suggest otherwise.

In fact, the only hybrid builds that were able to use it successfully were tanks (they use mag and stam) but it was only due to the debuff. Zos recently made changes to encourage stam dps to wear the set instead of the tank.

However, even in that context tanks are not dps so it’s irrelevant.

Urzigurumash

How about Tremorscale gets Spell Pen too? That would be nice.

jesse318sub17_ESO

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.

idk wrote: »

Zos has not encouraged, designed, or intended this set to be for hybrids. There is nothing in the set to suggest otherwise.

In fact, the only hybrid builds that were able to use it successfully were tanks (they use mag and stam) but it was only due to the debuff. Zos recently made changes to encourage stam dps to wear the set instead of the tank.

However, even in that context tanks are not dps so it’s irrelevant.

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

catnamedwill

Tanks are not hybrids in any way. Their main resource is health, essentially both stamina and magicka are off-resources for them.

Urzigurumash

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I'm pretty sure at some point in the last year or so all health-scaled heals were changed to crit off your highest Crit, rather than whichever Crit corresponds to whichever resource the skill costs.

Anyhow I agree with you that theoretically Alkosh is relevant for PvE Hybrids since it's the only Minor Slayer set that affords this much Physical and Spell Pen, but of course in any Solo PvE or PvP context if you can find a way to use S&B you get 3x the Pen from Pierce Armor that you do from Alkosh. If Tremorscale would be made to give both Spell and Physical Pen, this would make Pierce Armor even better for Solo Hybrid, and would make Tremorscale much, much better for pug tanks.

jesse318sub17_ESO

catnamedwill wrote: »

Tanks are not hybrids in any way. Their main resource is health, essentially both stamina and magicka are off-resources for them.

I'm not sure why anyone is stuck on hybrid? Tanks using a sword and shield are capable of slotting Defensive Posture which costs stamina, and all classes have access to a healing ability that scales off of health which costs Magicka. If you use a Sword and Shield, you possess hybrid tank abilties since you are capable of using both stamina and magicka to benefit your main health resource.
And even if you couldn't slot defensive posture, you could always slot Bone Shield as a tank.

jesse318sub17_ESO

Urzigurumash wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I'm pretty sure at some point in the last year or so all health-scaled heals were changed to crit off your highest Crit, rather than whichever Crit corresponds to whichever resource the skill costs.

Read more carefully, I never said this change wasn't implemented.

"spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical."

Urzigurumash

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

Read more carefully, I never said this change wasn't implemented.

My bad, I see your point now about this.

As to your original post, the same case could be made for Powerful Assault really, it would be nice if Line 4 also gave Spell Damage.

paulsimonps

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.
Not to mention the gear selection we are given as tanks.... Yolnahkriin, Bloodlord's Embrace, and Alkosh.
But between the enhanced spell power and magicka recovery from Yolnahkriin and Bloodlord's Embrace, I feel Spell Critical would be fitting is all. (Especially since this can help with abilities that scale off of health for all classes, such as Dragon's Blood, Polar Wind, Sun Shield, Dark Cloak, Death Scythe, and Unstable Clanfear.)
The spell crit bonus would also benefit healers and magicka DPS that are using it, and the additional penetration given with the most recent change to Alkosh already benefitted stamina DPS the most.

Cause you build a tank way more different than you build a hybrid. Tank=/=Hybrid, thanks are tanks.

idk

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.

idk wrote: »

Zos has not encouraged, designed, or intended this set to be for hybrids. There is nothing in the set to suggest otherwise.

In fact, the only hybrid builds that were able to use it successfully were tanks (they use mag and stam) but it was only due to the debuff. Zos recently made changes to encourage stam dps to wear the set instead of the tank.

However, even in that context tanks are not dps so it’s irrelevant.

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I was merely pointing out that suggesting tanks are a hybrid as justification for changing this set into a hybrid set was not relevant.

Also, tanks would not benefit much from spell crit as they are not gearing to increase their damage. Tanks have used this set over the years is because it increases the group's damage. Serious tanks have worn this set for that reason and not to increase their own damage.

At the end of the day, this set was not designed or intended to be used as a hybrid DPS set.

jesse318sub17_ESO

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.

idk wrote: »

Zos has not encouraged, designed, or intended this set to be for hybrids. There is nothing in the set to suggest otherwise.

In fact, the only hybrid builds that were able to use it successfully were tanks (they use mag and stam) but it was only due to the debuff. Zos recently made changes to encourage stam dps to wear the set instead of the tank.

However, even in that context tanks are not dps so it’s irrelevant.

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I was merely pointing out that suggesting tanks are a hybrid as justification for changing this set into a hybrid set was not relevant.

Also, tanks would not benefit much from spell crit as they are not gearing to increase their damage. Tanks have used this set over the years is because it increases the group's damage. Serious tanks have worn this set for that reason and not to increase their own damage.

At the end of the day, this set was not designed or intended to be used as a hybrid DPS set.

You are confusing the term "hybrid" with "damage dealer". The two terms are mutually exclusive. (Not that they CAN'T interact or be the same thing.)
It's also worth noting that a tanks critical is the source to the largest burst heals in the game via health scaling abilities such as Unstable Clanfear. For this reason, Spell/Weapon Critical and hybrid builds are not rooted solely in damage concepts.

SillyPlay

unnecessary change. it's a medium armor set that happens to provide a buff and because of how it works, tanks happen to use it better. still a medium set so stam based.

El_Borracho

Alkosh is not a hybrid set. Its a stamina damage set that has found better usage as a group PVE tank set due to the synergies required to proc it.

zvavi

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

if you are going to encourage the use of this set for hybrid builds in a PvE and PvP environment

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not sure why anyone is stuck on hybrid?

...
...

More towards what changes I would like to alkosh, probably max stam instead of critical chance. The set is not optimal for dds anyway (crit is stronger than max resource) and max stam is more important to tanks than to dds.

PS my point of view is that tanks are hybrids because they use efficiently both resource pools to be effective, unlike mag and stam that might occasionally have 1 skill here and there for that.

Mumbles_the_Tank

Sure - why not? It’s not as if ZOS recent changes to Alkosh 5pc made any sense either - might as well go wild with the 2-4 as well.

jesse318sub17_ESO

El_Borracho wrote: »

Alkosh is not a hybrid set. Its a stamina damage set that has found better usage as a group PVE tank set due to the synergies required to proc it.

I'm addressing Alkosh as a utility set, not a hybrid set.

idk

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.

idk wrote: »

Zos has not encouraged, designed, or intended this set to be for hybrids. There is nothing in the set to suggest otherwise.

In fact, the only hybrid builds that were able to use it successfully were tanks (they use mag and stam) but it was only due to the debuff. Zos recently made changes to encourage stam dps to wear the set instead of the tank.

However, even in that context tanks are not dps so it’s irrelevant.

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I was merely pointing out that suggesting tanks are a hybrid as justification for changing this set into a hybrid set was not relevant.

Also, tanks would not benefit much from spell crit as they are not gearing to increase their damage. Tanks have used this set over the years is because it increases the group's damage. Serious tanks have worn this set for that reason and not to increase their own damage.

At the end of the day, this set was not designed or intended to be used as a hybrid DPS set.

You are confusing the term "hybrid" with "damage dealer".

I am not confused about any of this.

You are the one who incorrectly stated Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it. Tanks have used it for only one reason. The set provides a debuff that benefits the DPS for the entire group.

The reality is Roar of Alkosh is not designed or intended for Hybrids. Zos has not encouraged it's use as a hybrid set. That being the case the suggested change makes no sense.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Alkosh is not a hybrid set. Its a stamina damage set that has found better usage as a group PVE tank set due to the synergies required to proc it.

I'm addressing Alkosh as a utility set, not a hybrid set.

No. You are clearly trying to address Alkosh as a hybrid set. The OP clearly uses the word Hybrid. The OP says nothing about utility.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

The Alkosh 2-piece bonus should be weapon and spell critical, if you are going to encourage the use of this set for hybrid builds in a PvE and PvP environment by making it an even more powerful buff. I think it would be an interesting change, and reflect a duality in the use of the set.

I have quoted the OP so anyone looking at my comment that makes it clear OP is speaking about Alkosh as a hybrid set and not a utility set will not have to scroll up to double-check what was said.

jesse318sub17_ESO

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.

idk wrote: »

Zos has not encouraged, designed, or intended this set to be for hybrids. There is nothing in the set to suggest otherwise.

In fact, the only hybrid builds that were able to use it successfully were tanks (they use mag and stam) but it was only due to the debuff. Zos recently made changes to encourage stam dps to wear the set instead of the tank.

However, even in that context tanks are not dps so it’s irrelevant.

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I was merely pointing out that suggesting tanks are a hybrid as justification for changing this set into a hybrid set was not relevant.

Also, tanks would not benefit much from spell crit as they are not gearing to increase their damage. Tanks have used this set over the years is because it increases the group's damage. Serious tanks have worn this set for that reason and not to increase their own damage.

At the end of the day, this set was not designed or intended to be used as a hybrid DPS set.

You are confusing the term "hybrid" with "damage dealer".

I am not confused about any of this.

You are the one who incorrectly stated Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it. Tanks have used it for only one reason. The set provides a debuff that benefits the DPS for the entire group.

The reality is Roar of Alkosh is not designed or intended for Hybrids. Zos has not encouraged it's use as a hybrid set. That being the case the suggested change makes no sense.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Alkosh is not a hybrid set. Its a stamina damage set that has found better usage as a group PVE tank set due to the synergies required to proc it.

I'm addressing Alkosh as a utility set, not a hybrid set.

No. You are clearly trying to address Alkosh as a hybrid set. The OP clearly uses the word Hybrid. The OP says nothing about utility.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

The Alkosh 2-piece bonus should be weapon and spell critical, if you are going to encourage the use of this set for hybrid builds in a PvE and PvP environment by making it an even more powerful buff. I think it would be an interesting change, and reflect a duality in the use of the set.

I have quoted the OP so anyone looking at my comment that makes it clear OP is speaking about Alkosh as a hybrid set and not a utility set will not have to scroll up to double-check what was said.

No, I referred to my and others' tank builds as hybrids, because both of their resources can be used for healing themselves, and I referred to Alkosh as a set that we use.
I see Alkosh as a utility set.
Why are you trying to claim I have a different opinion than what I claim to have?

idk

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.

idk wrote: »

Zos has not encouraged, designed, or intended this set to be for hybrids. There is nothing in the set to suggest otherwise.

In fact, the only hybrid builds that were able to use it successfully were tanks (they use mag and stam) but it was only due to the debuff. Zos recently made changes to encourage stam dps to wear the set instead of the tank.

However, even in that context tanks are not dps so it’s irrelevant.

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I was merely pointing out that suggesting tanks are a hybrid as justification for changing this set into a hybrid set was not relevant.

Also, tanks would not benefit much from spell crit as they are not gearing to increase their damage. Tanks have used this set over the years is because it increases the group's damage. Serious tanks have worn this set for that reason and not to increase their own damage.

At the end of the day, this set was not designed or intended to be used as a hybrid DPS set.

You are confusing the term "hybrid" with "damage dealer".

I am not confused about any of this.

You are the one who incorrectly stated Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it. Tanks have used it for only one reason. The set provides a debuff that benefits the DPS for the entire group.

The reality is Roar of Alkosh is not designed or intended for Hybrids. Zos has not encouraged it's use as a hybrid set. That being the case the suggested change makes no sense.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Alkosh is not a hybrid set. Its a stamina damage set that has found better usage as a group PVE tank set due to the synergies required to proc it.

I'm addressing Alkosh as a utility set, not a hybrid set.

No. You are clearly trying to address Alkosh as a hybrid set. The OP clearly uses the word Hybrid. The OP says nothing about utility.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

The Alkosh 2-piece bonus should be weapon and spell critical, if you are going to encourage the use of this set for hybrid builds in a PvE and PvP environment by making it an even more powerful buff. I think it would be an interesting change, and reflect a duality in the use of the set.

I have quoted the OP so anyone looking at my comment that makes it clear OP is speaking about Alkosh as a hybrid set and not a utility set will not have to scroll up to double-check what was said.

No, I referred to my and others' tank builds as hybrids, because both of their resources can be used for healing themselves, and I referred to Alkosh as a set that we use.
I see Alkosh as a utility set.
Why are you trying to claim I have a different opinion than what I claim to have?

That is great, but the fact remains that the statement in the OP is incorrectly addressing the set for hybrids and makes no mention of utility.

jesse318sub17_ESO

✭✭✭
The Alkosh 2-piece bonus should be weapon and spell critical, if you are going to encourage the use of this set for hybrid builds in a PvE and PvP environment by making it an even more powerful buff. I think it would be an interesting change, and reflect a duality in the use of the set.

jesse318sub17_ESO

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.

idk wrote: »

Zos has not encouraged, designed, or intended this set to be for hybrids. There is nothing in the set to suggest otherwise.

In fact, the only hybrid builds that were able to use it successfully were tanks (they use mag and stam) but it was only due to the debuff. Zos recently made changes to encourage stam dps to wear the set instead of the tank.

However, even in that context tanks are not dps so it’s irrelevant.

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I was merely pointing out that suggesting tanks are a hybrid as justification for changing this set into a hybrid set was not relevant.

Also, tanks would not benefit much from spell crit as they are not gearing to increase their damage. Tanks have used this set over the years is because it increases the group's damage. Serious tanks have worn this set for that reason and not to increase their own damage.

At the end of the day, this set was not designed or intended to be used as a hybrid DPS set.

You are confusing the term "hybrid" with "damage dealer".

I am not confused about any of this.

You are the one who incorrectly stated Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it. Tanks have used it for only one reason. The set provides a debuff that benefits the DPS for the entire group.

The reality is Roar of Alkosh is not designed or intended for Hybrids. Zos has not encouraged it's use as a hybrid set. That being the case the suggested change makes no sense.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Alkosh is not a hybrid set. Its a stamina damage set that has found better usage as a group PVE tank set due to the synergies required to proc it.

I'm addressing Alkosh as a utility set, not a hybrid set.

No. You are clearly trying to address Alkosh as a hybrid set. The OP clearly uses the word Hybrid. The OP says nothing about utility.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

The Alkosh 2-piece bonus should be weapon and spell critical, if you are going to encourage the use of this set for hybrid builds in a PvE and PvP environment by making it an even more powerful buff. I think it would be an interesting change, and reflect a duality in the use of the set.

I have quoted the OP so anyone looking at my comment that makes it clear OP is speaking about Alkosh as a hybrid set and not a utility set will not have to scroll up to double-check what was said.

No, I referred to my and others' tank builds as hybrids, because both of their resources can be used for healing themselves, and I referred to Alkosh as a set that we use.
I see Alkosh as a utility set.
Why are you trying to claim I have a different opinion than what I claim to have?

That is great, but the fact remains that the statement in the OP is incorrectly addressing the set for hybrids and makes no mention of utility.

Do you ever think that maybe when I use a utility set as a player, and am a hybrid tank, call Alkosh a hybrid set?
A utility set can be a set for hybrids, if you are a hybrid utilizing it. And many tanks are. I called the set a hybrid set once because I use it, and I am a tank.
That doesn't have anything to do with my Original Post.

I personally would appreciate the spell critical for the healing more than anything else as someone who mains a Warden Tank, but that's not the only reason I find that change interesting because the set is used by others. If more is added to it, then it simply becomes a better set. You could even add stats to other utility sets such as Moondancer. I see this set as a utility set because it can be used by healers for magicka recovery.

Changing the Moondancer 2-piece to Max Magicka and Max Stamina wouldn't be out of line.

idk

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I fail to see how Alkosh is positioned or "advertised" as a hybrid set exactly.

• Medium Armor (Non Craftable)
• Trial Set - Typically 4 types of armor sets drop with specific roles (Stam DPS, Mag DPS, Tank and Healer), while this arguably fails as a stam dps set, that is the true intention of the sets design.
• Stam DPS related bonuses - Weapon Crit and Damage
• Physical Damage Proc

The only reason it could be seen as a hybrid set is the penetration bonus, but that recently got changed across the board for the major/minor system to behave as 1 debuff in Breach. In a future patch, we will most likely see physical and spell penetration on sets combined into 1 value as well.

A better set for getting a dual stat, hybrid like treatment is now Night Mothers Gaze. It's craftable for any weight and would provide magicka characters a way of proccing aoe Major Breach through a set.

Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it, and tanks are hybrids. Especially when they're wearing Alkosh.
You don't like my idea about giving Alkosh a little spell crit? It could use a stat bonus in comparison to newer sets that support often wear.

Tanks=/=Hybrids. Tanks are tanks. If you wanted to update the set bonuses for tanks then you would want way different things on it then what a Hybrid DPS or Hybrid PvP player would want. I mean had the bonuses been Max Stamina for example rather then weapon damage and crit most tanks would be overjoyed, more resources, and it wouldn't change all that much for the few stamina DPS's running the set.

How does a warrior using only 1 spell that costs stamina not seem like a hybrid thing to you? To me it represents a uniformity in tanks and hybrid play styles.

idk wrote: »

Zos has not encouraged, designed, or intended this set to be for hybrids. There is nothing in the set to suggest otherwise.

In fact, the only hybrid builds that were able to use it successfully were tanks (they use mag and stam) but it was only due to the debuff. Zos recently made changes to encourage stam dps to wear the set instead of the tank.

However, even in that context tanks are not dps so it’s irrelevant.

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I was merely pointing out that suggesting tanks are a hybrid as justification for changing this set into a hybrid set was not relevant.

Also, tanks would not benefit much from spell crit as they are not gearing to increase their damage. Tanks have used this set over the years is because it increases the group's damage. Serious tanks have worn this set for that reason and not to increase their own damage.

At the end of the day, this set was not designed or intended to be used as a hybrid DPS set.

You are confusing the term "hybrid" with "damage dealer".

I am not confused about any of this.

You are the one who incorrectly stated Alkosh is a hybrid set because tanks use it. Tanks have used it for only one reason. The set provides a debuff that benefits the DPS for the entire group.

The reality is Roar of Alkosh is not designed or intended for Hybrids. Zos has not encouraged it's use as a hybrid set. That being the case the suggested change makes no sense.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Alkosh is not a hybrid set. Its a stamina damage set that has found better usage as a group PVE tank set due to the synergies required to proc it.

I'm addressing Alkosh as a utility set, not a hybrid set.

No. You are clearly trying to address Alkosh as a hybrid set. The OP clearly uses the word Hybrid. The OP says nothing about utility.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

The Alkosh 2-piece bonus should be weapon and spell critical, if you are going to encourage the use of this set for hybrid builds in a PvE and PvP environment by making it an even more powerful buff. I think it would be an interesting change, and reflect a duality in the use of the set.

I have quoted the OP so anyone looking at my comment that makes it clear OP is speaking about Alkosh as a hybrid set and not a utility set will not have to scroll up to double-check what was said.

No, I referred to my and others' tank builds as hybrids, because both of their resources can be used for healing themselves, and I referred to Alkosh as a set that we use.
I see Alkosh as a utility set.
Why are you trying to claim I have a different opinion than what I claim to have?

That is great, but the fact remains that the statement in the OP is incorrectly addressing the set for hybrids and makes no mention of utility.

Do you ever think that maybe when I use a utility set as a player, and am a hybrid tank, call Alkosh a hybrid set?

A set does not become a hybrid set just because a hybrid build uses it. That is the fallacy of the argument being presented here.

Firstmep

Maybe it needs the roaring opportunist treatment to nudge it more towards the dps players direction... KEKW

paulsimonps

Urzigurumash wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I'm pretty sure at some point in the last year or so all health-scaled heals were changed to crit off your highest Crit, rather than whichever Crit corresponds to whichever resource the skill costs.

Anyhow I agree with you that theoretically Alkosh is relevant for PvE Hybrids since it's the only Minor Slayer set that affords this much Physical and Spell Pen, but of course in any Solo PvE or PvP context if you can find a way to use S&B you get 3x the Pen from Pierce Armor that you do from Alkosh. If Tremorscale would be made to give both Spell and Physical Pen, this would make Pierce Armor even better for Solo Hybrid, and would make Tremorscale much, much better for pug tanks.

cause there has been so many patch notes in the last year I could not be bothered to read though them all and trying to ctrl+f keywords came up with nothing, so I decided to test it to confirm. And you are correct. Tested with Green Dragon Blood. I went to Orsinium, got hit by a Durzog for 3 min spamming dragon blood as much as I could. Once with base crit only. 10% and once with Leviathan and CP and once with Mothers Sorrow and CP. Both according to combat metrics had Dragon blood crit in a % close to what I had in both Spell and Weapon Crit. as well the base crit was as low as expected.

So unless a Tanks build would be stacking Spell Crit via other sets, then I see no reason for OPs suggested change. Which btw has not been talked about much cause of his claim of hybrids.

PS. Tanks are not Hybrids, thats not a tank term. If you mention hybrids on their own nobody will think of tanks.

jesse318sub17_ESO

paulsimonps wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

I was never insinuating that tanks were DPS, spell critical can benefit any tank utilizing class abilities that scale off of health and cost magick, and the same for weapon critical.

I'm pretty sure at some point in the last year or so all health-scaled heals were changed to crit off your highest Crit, rather than whichever Crit corresponds to whichever resource the skill costs.

Anyhow I agree with you that theoretically Alkosh is relevant for PvE Hybrids since it's the only Minor Slayer set that affords this much Physical and Spell Pen, but of course in any Solo PvE or PvP context if you can find a way to use S&B you get 3x the Pen from Pierce Armor that you do from Alkosh. If Tremorscale would be made to give both Spell and Physical Pen, this would make Pierce Armor even better for Solo Hybrid, and would make Tremorscale much, much better for pug tanks.

cause there has been so many patch notes in the last year I could not be bothered to read though them all and trying to ctrl+f keywords came up with nothing, so I decided to test it to confirm. And you are correct. Tested with Green Dragon Blood. I went to Orsinium, got hit by a Durzog for 3 min spamming dragon blood as much as I could. Once with base crit only. 10% and once with Leviathan and CP and once with Mothers Sorrow and CP. Both according to combat metrics had Dragon blood crit in a % close to what I had in both Spell and Weapon Crit. as well the base crit was as low as expected.

So unless a Tanks build would be stacking Spell Crit via other sets, then I see no reason for OPs suggested change. Which btw has not been talked about much cause of his claim of hybrids.

PS. Tanks are not Hybrids, thats not a tank term. If you mention hybrids on their own nobody will think of tanks.

I never stated that anything you said for those first 3 paragraphs weren't true, and the last 2 paragraphs you just made up.
You can get uneven crit rating through your CP allocation, making spell crit a viable tank stat. Tanks can be hybrids in this realm, if that's what being a hybrid means to you.

jesse318sub17_ESO

Oh and in case ZoS reads this, this guy never tested if crit even worked on damage shields^

Anyways, my point is that I think the spell crit would be really interesting mathematically in tandem with the weapon crit as a 2 piece bonus on Alkosh. Not only is it thematic to what Alkosh is as a set that benefits tanks, healers, magicka dps, stamina dps, and hybrids alike, but it also creates an interesting resource to use creatively.
Spell critical isn't useless on a tank unless you build for it to be, and even then, buffs could still make your spell critical highest.