Templar: "restore yourself and your allies in radiant light" - CORRECTION: "your group only"

Dyngrin

It is absurd in an MMO (which ESO is no longer, PVP-wise), that a player that has offensive abilities can attack all players in an opposing faction, but a player that has healing/support abilities CANNOT HELP ALL PLAYERS IN THEIR OWN FACTION (only their group, if any). Some of us actually like to heal/buff any player in their faction in need, grouped or not.

Since the dawn of Alliance vs Alliance MMOs (and I have played nearly all of them), a player could build a healer/support avatar TO SUPPORT THEIR FACTION. This too has been part of ESO's design since the very beginning (and I've been playing ESO that long). It stems from the classic DPS/Ranged, Tank/Melee, Healer/Buffer archetypes that pre-dated MMOs.

For ZOS to so casually make such a huge design change for "behavioral" reasons is inexcusable.

For those players not against the change or even for it, you have no idea how much healing and buffing you were getting from the many healers/buffers that WERE PLAYING, so enjoy DYING MORE QUICKLY AND MORE OFTEN, and the same horrible lag.

--Dyn The Disgusted

Juhasow

Is there any definition of MMO that says You need to be able to heal everyone , to earn the trophy of massively multipayer online ? Fact that ESO is an MMO in which there are aspects of the gameplay You don't like , doesn't mean the game looses the rights to be called an MMO. There are MMOs where term "healing others" doesn't even exist.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Dyngrin wrote: »

It is absurd in an MMO (which ESO is no longer, PVP-wise), that a player that has offensive abilities can attack all players in an opposing faction, but a player that has healing/support abilities CANNOT HELP ALL PLAYERS IN THEIR OWN FACTION (only their group, if any). Some of us actually like to heal/buff any player in their faction in need, grouped or not.

Since the dawn of Alliance vs Alliance MMOs (and I have played nearly all of them), a player could build a healer/support avatar TO SUPPORT THEIR FACTION. This too has been part of ESO's design since the very beginning (and I've been playing ESO that long). It stems from the classic DPS/Ranged, Tank/Melee, Healer/Buffer archetypes that pre-dated MMOs.

For ZOS to so casually make such a huge design change for "behavioral" reasons is inexcusable.

For those players not against the change or even for it, you have no idea how much healing and buffing you were getting from the many healers/buffers that WERE PLAYING, so enjoy DYING MORE QUICKLY AND MORE OFTEN, and the same horrible lag.

--Dyn The Disgusted

A templar can still heal non grouped allies with some abilities as can Wardens.

Xeniph

Dyngrin wrote: »

It is absurd in an MMO (which ESO is no longer, PVP-wise), that a player that has offensive abilities can attack all players in an opposing faction, but a player that has healing/support abilities CANNOT HELP ALL PLAYERS IN THEIR OWN FACTION (only their group, if any). Some of us actually like to heal/buff any player in their faction in need, grouped or not.

Since the dawn of Alliance vs Alliance MMOs (and I have played nearly all of them), a player could build a healer/support avatar TO SUPPORT THEIR FACTION. This too has been part of ESO's design since the very beginning (and I've been playing ESO that long). It stems from the classic DPS/Ranged, Tank/Melee, Healer/Buffer archetypes that pre-dated MMOs.

For ZOS to so casually make such a huge design change for "behavioral" reasons is inexcusable.

For those players not against the change or even for it, you have no idea how much healing and buffing you were getting from the many healers/buffers that WERE PLAYING, so enjoy DYING MORE QUICKLY AND MORE OFTEN, and the same horrible lag.

--Dyn The Disgusted

Hyperbole,

I have been MMOing since 1997 and in all that time I can only recall ESO allowing you to heal non-group members.

The very first AvA (coined RvR by that game) did NOT allow you to heal or buff anyone outside of your own group. So while I can see this change may be frustrating for you, it's not outside the norm, in fact ESO was outside the norm.

I always thought it was odd to allow healing/buffing outside your group and lets not even talk about how easy ESO made healing in the first place with it's genre changing "smart healing" feature.

Joy_Division

Juhasow wrote: »

Is there any definition of MMO that says You need to be able to heal everyone , to earn the trophy of massively multipayer online ? Fact that ESO is an MMO in which there are aspects of the gameplay You don't like , doesn't mean the game looses the rights to be called an MMO. There are MMOs where term "healing others" doesn't even exist.

The problem is ESO is not one of the MMOs where healing others doesn't exist. Indeed, the Templar class was designed with intent to heal / assist allies.

Instead ZOS has provided an absurd environment in which some members of the same alliance can heal each other while others can't. Meanwhile damage has no such restrictions. Skills that have been designed and balance with the intention of performing a beneficial function to an ally - as noted by the above poster - now often won;t function as they were intended to do. So players will often be playing under a different set of rules/mechanics, something that is antithetical to competition, aside from ignoring the AvAvA component by pretending Cyrodiil is a FFA of groups.

So, OK, it may be still be an massive multiplayer online game, but it's now one that is analogous to a D-Day simulation where a medic in the 82nd Airborne is incapable of administering aid to an "ally" in the 101st even though he has a medical kit ready to go.

idk

The change lacks any real logic and @Joy_Division puts that into a great perspective here.

Tommy_The_Gun

idk wrote: »

The change lacks any real logic and @Joy_Division puts that into a great perspective here.

Yep. There is absolutely no sense in this change. I mean what is next ? No cross - rezing (solo/group players) ? Or maybe better: We should not be able to deal damage to group when we are solo or solo players when we are grouped.... ?!
^ Because this what you would get if you would standardize everything according to lack of cross solo / group interaction...

I mean I mostly play solo and I am not affected by this change THAT much - but I already see weird stuff happening:

Sometimes I can use synergy & purge negative effects... sometimes I can't. Sometimes Siege shield will work when some one places it... and sometimes it wont. I mean, I don't even have an indication which skills I can use synergy or not... Some of them, technically should not be even rendered for me If those do nothing but troll / bait me into thinking that "it may actually help"

I can only imagine how new players or player who don't read forums are confused right now when something like this happens...

I used to place Veil of Blades on my NB in PvP during keep sieges, when there is an opening in wall / door, so it would buff my allies & heal them with synergy... but it seems all it does now is slow down enemies, but very rarely (CC immunity / speed buff).

Ranger209

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The change lacks any real logic and @Joy_Division puts that into a great perspective here.

Yep. There is absolutely no sense in this change. I mean what is next ? No cross - rezing (solo/group players) ? Or maybe better: We should not be able to deal damage to group when we are solo or solo players when we are grouped.... ?!
^ Because this what you would get if you would standardize everything according to lack of cross solo / group interaction...

I mean I mostly play solo and I am not affected by this change THAT much - but I already see weird stuff happening:

I also play more solo than in a group. Personally, from a selfish standpoint this helps me a great deal as now all my smart heals will only go to me. However, it is just wrong that in an AvAvA environment certain people within an alliance can not aid others in their alliance with support and heals. To me that flies in the face of everything that is AvAvA. There are many reasons to want to run through Cyrodiil ungrouped, and many of them have been succinctly stated. Time constraints, freedom of movement across the map to where something interests you, getting in a bad group and wanting to leave, or do other things than what the group is doing, or the simple inability to even find a group which is totally beyond the players control are all valid reasons to not be tied to a group. Again selfishly I am in favor of such a thing, but logically it doesn't sit right in my gut.

Reading what you stated above brought me to the perfect way to balance PvP around the fact that ungrouped people cannot heal anyone but themselves. They should also not be able to be damaged by anyone but themselves. This seems about just as logical, and should bring some balance to the situation. No heals for you, no damage for me. Seems balanced, I think I like it.

Mr_Nobody

since templars are owning the bottom tier of PvP, they might as well be excluded from the heal restrictions

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Is there any definition of MMO that says You need to be able to heal everyone , to earn the trophy of massively multipayer online ? Fact that ESO is an MMO in which there are aspects of the gameplay You don't like , doesn't mean the game looses the rights to be called an MMO. There are MMOs where term "healing others" doesn't even exist.

The problem is ESO is not one of the MMOs where healing others doesn't exist. Indeed, the Templar class was designed with intent to heal / assist allies.

Instead ZOS has provided an absurd environment in which some members of the same alliance can heal each other while others can't. Meanwhile damage has no such restrictions. Skills that have been designed and balance with the intention of performing a beneficial function to an ally - as noted by the above poster - now often won;t function as they were intended to do. So players will often be playing under a different set of rules/mechanics, something that is antithetical to competition, aside from ignoring the AvAvA component by pretending Cyrodiil is a FFA of groups.

So, OK, it may be still be an massive multiplayer online game, but it's now one that is analogous to a D-Day simulation where a medic in the 82nd Airborne is incapable of administering aid to an "ally" in the 101st even though he has a medical kit ready to go.

There are actually many instances where effects are tied to group only. For example Purge and Maneuvers was changed to be like this years ago yet people didn't have the same response.

Also buff gear regularly only affects grouped allies. A couple of patches ago almost all healing sets were changed to only affect grouped allies too, again no outcry.

I don't think it's a bad thing that 'playing together' is encouraged in an MMO. If you don't want to play in a group, make a solo or zerg surf build or even a targeted solo healing build. As people have pointed out there are still plenty of other ways to aid allies if that is your desire. For example body blocking, damage mitigation etc..

badmojo

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

There are actually many instances where effects are tied to group only. For example Purge and Manoeuvres was changed to be like this years ago yet people didn't have the same response.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360737/make-purge-great-again

Joy_Division

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Is there any definition of MMO that says You need to be able to heal everyone , to earn the trophy of massively multipayer online ? Fact that ESO is an MMO in which there are aspects of the gameplay You don't like , doesn't mean the game looses the rights to be called an MMO. There are MMOs where term "healing others" doesn't even exist.

The problem is ESO is not one of the MMOs where healing others doesn't exist. Indeed, the Templar class was designed with intent to heal / assist allies.

Instead ZOS has provided an absurd environment in which some members of the same alliance can heal each other while others can't. Meanwhile damage has no such restrictions. Skills that have been designed and balance with the intention of performing a beneficial function to an ally - as noted by the above poster - now often won;t function as they were intended to do. So players will often be playing under a different set of rules/mechanics, something that is antithetical to competition, aside from ignoring the AvAvA component by pretending Cyrodiil is a FFA of groups.

So, OK, it may be still be an massive multiplayer online game, but it's now one that is analogous to a D-Day simulation where a medic in the 82nd Airborne is incapable of administering aid to an "ally" in the 101st even though he has a medical kit ready to go.

There are actually many instances where effects are tied to group only. For example Purge and Maneuvers was changed to be like this years ago yet people didn't have the same response.

Also buff gear regularly only affects grouped allies. A couple of patches ago almost all healing sets were changed to only affect grouped allies too, again no outcry.

I don't think it's a bad thing that 'playing together' is encouraged in an MMO. If you don't want to play in a group, make a solo or zerg surf build or even a targeted solo healing build. As people have pointed out there are still plenty of other ways to aid allies if that is your desire. For example body blocking, damage mitigation etc..

Unfortunately that is true; these 2 skills having group only effects does much to make organized groups more effective than a consistent application of the rules would otherwise dictate. And not surprising that you view this as acceptable since you run in an organized group and thus a beneficiary of this inconsistency.

I most certainly raised my disagreement to this change and recall how it was motivated by people who were annoyed that the skill casted by others caused an unwanted increase in speed while in towns/cities. As much as I didn't and don't like it, the change didn't make it such that running ungrouped was pointless as a healer/support or changed the base mechanics of the game since people could still heal each other.

Yes some gear buffs only allies. Irritating, but I can live with it since again it doesn't change the base mechanics of the game and all the gear in my bank works just fine if I choose not to be in a group.

There was no outcry to these changes because they weren't huge changes that made people's class / weapon skills non-functional and at the end of the day, If I and a random fought two grouped players, we weren't faced with the unfair disadvantage that they could heal each other while we could not despite the pretensions of being in the same alliance.

That you are suggesting it's fine that a Templar's breath of life skill will now not function on a supposed "ally" in an AvAvA setting (while your group's healer skills will work perfectly fine) because the Templar could can say body-block an ally just shows how little concern you have for the mechanical imbalances and disruptive restrictions ZOS's changes have brought about.

FrancisCrawford

Xeniph wrote: »

I have been MMOing since 1997 and in all that time I can only recall ESO allowing you to heal non-group members.

I've played:

• Guild Wars, where the issue didn't arise (ALL combat was instanced).
• LOTRO, where you could heal other folks you weren't grouped with.
• Guild Wars 2, where healing was commonly "selfish" anyway.
• ESO.

Faded

Ranger209 wrote: »

Reading what you stated above brought me to the perfect way to balance PvP around the fact that ungrouped people cannot heal anyone but themselves. They should also not be able to be damaged by anyone but themselves. This seems about just as logical, and should bring some balance to the situation. No heals for you, no damage for me. Seems balanced, I think I like it.

"If you want me off this flag I guess you better convince me to murder myself. Don't worry though, none of my faction brothers can heal me."

🤔 Why not.

Dyngrin

Xeniph wrote: »

Hyperbole,

I have been MMOing since 1997 and in all that time I can only recall ESO allowing you to heal non-group members.

The very first AvA (coined RvR by that game) did NOT allow you to heal or buff anyone outside of your own group. So while I can see this change may be frustrating for you, it's not outside the norm, in fact ESO was outside the norm.

I always thought it was odd to allow healing/buffing outside your group and lets not even talk about how easy ESO made healing in the first place with it's genre changing "smart healing" feature.

Ultima Online (UO) was one of the first successful PvP MMOs (it was 2D) and it allowed healing/bandaging anyone in your faction. Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC, then later Warhammer) which was very successful, one of the first that was 3D, and defined the 3 faction MMO, also allowed healing/buffing of anyone in your faction. There were others since I usually played a healing/support class and if I recall correctly includes Everquest (PvP), World of Warcraft (PvP), Aion, and Age of Conan.

Groups originated as simply a means of communicating with a sub group of your faction that would move together, so it usually showed the leader/crown and group members on the map, and group members health. ESO later corrupted this subset of players to limit a few abilities (how does this fit even in lore?) and now even healing. So now with one patch, where I could heal any of hundreds of faction mates I can now heal AT MOST 12, while damage dealers can continue to target any of hundreds. Ridiculous.

What is next up for the group limit nerf? Resurrection? Siege Usage? Only seeing friendly players in your group? It my as well be group instanced -- which is not a true MMO.

--Dyn

Jaimeh

Yup, they decided to delete healers in overland PvP, unless they have an organized group ready at hand every time they want to go in Cyro and play...

Juhasow

Dyngrin wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Hyperbole,

I have been MMOing since 1997 and in all that time I can only recall ESO allowing you to heal non-group members.

The very first AvA (coined RvR by that game) did NOT allow you to heal or buff anyone outside of your own group. So while I can see this change may be frustrating for you, it's not outside the norm, in fact ESO was outside the norm.

I always thought it was odd to allow healing/buffing outside your group and lets not even talk about how easy ESO made healing in the first place with it's genre changing "smart healing" feature.

Ultima Online (UO) was one of the first successful PvP MMOs (it was 2D) and it allowed healing/bandaging anyone in your faction. Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC, then later Warhammer) which was very successful, one of the first that was 3D, and defined the 3 faction MMO, also allowed healing/buffing of anyone in your faction. There were others since I usually played a healing/support class and if I recall correctly includes Everquest (PvP), World of Warcraft (PvP), Aion, and Age of Conan.

Groups originated as simply a means of communicating with a sub group of your faction that would move together, so it usually showed the leader/crown and group members on the map, and group members health. ESO later corrupted this subset of players to limit a few abilities (how does this fit even in lore?) and now even healing. So now with one patch, where I could heal any of hundreds of faction mates I can now heal AT MOST 12, while damage dealers can continue to target any of hundreds. Ridiculous.

What is next up for the group limit nerf? Resurrection? Siege Usage? Only seeing friendly players in your group? It my as well be group instanced -- which is not a true MMO.

--Dyn

ESO's dev team is composed of people that were working on some of the titles mentioned above especially DAoC and Warhammer.

Firstmep

Well you can still heal allies outside your grp, if you are not in cyrodiil, so the tooltip is fine.

badmojo

The other thing about purge and manouvers going group only years ago, is that while it sucked, and was a red flag about the way zos was headed, I worked around the issue of not being able to purge allies by switching one of my sets to Stendarr and then later to Curse eater, both sets removed negative effects when healing allies. With this change there are no sets that will restore our ability to heal allies.

Its like... yeah okay purge was too effective since everyone could slot it and clense everyone, I can accept the fact that ZOS wanted siege AOEs to be feared so they nerfed purge. It meant I had to build my character to specifically clense other groups and ungrouped allies, I didnt like it but I adapted to it and sacrificed a group buffing set to help the faction.

But no amount of building for it or sacrifice is going to give us back the ability to heal allies. Yes there might be some overlooked skills that still work. But their intent is to remove ally healing, I am not about to craft a build around their incompetence at implementing their change.

Dunning_Kruger

I love how people conveniently bring up “damage doesn’t have the same restriction” when smart damage doesn’t exist. No one is out here casting mages wrath looking at a wall and the game is checking a 30 yard radius for an executable target for you getting you a hands free reward for your button press. But your smart heals did.

Dunning_Kruger

badmojo wrote: »

But no amount of building for it or sacrifice is going to give us back the ability to heal allies. Yes there might be some overlooked skills that still work. But their intent is to remove ally healing, I am not about to craft a build around their incompetence at implementing their change.

Instead of building a build; you could build a group. Now your heals hit allies and you are a coordinated force multiplier on the battlefield. That’s the point of an MMORPG is group building.

Healers are by their design a supportive role. They belong in groups. Make your groups and be the cornerstone or join groups. If you want to solo be a true solo role build like a ganker or a tanky DK etc.


Folks that don’t want to join groups to PvP but fight next to groups legitimately don’t want to play an MMORPG. This is the LFR generation in Cyrodiil.

Faded

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

But no amount of building for it or sacrifice is going to give us back the ability to heal allies. Yes there might be some overlooked skills that still work. But their intent is to remove ally healing, I am not about to craft a build around their incompetence at implementing their change.

Instead of building a build; you could build a group. Now your heals hit allies and you are a coordinated force multiplier on the battlefield. That’s the point of an MMORPG is group building.

Healers are by their design a supportive role. They belong in groups. Make your groups and be the cornerstone or join groups. If you want to solo be a true solo role build like a ganker or a tanky DK etc.


Folks that don’t want to join groups to PvP but fight next to groups legitimately don’t want to play an MMORPG. This is the LFR generation in Cyrodiil.

Oh ***. Seven years people have been fighting in big disorganized mobs in Cyrodiil, and it was an MMORPG the entire time. You want a MOBA, go play a MOBA.

Dunning_Kruger

Faded wrote: »

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

But no amount of building for it or sacrifice is going to give us back the ability to heal allies. Yes there might be some overlooked skills that still work. But their intent is to remove ally healing, I am not about to craft a build around their incompetence at implementing their change.

Instead of building a build; you could build a group. Now your heals hit allies and you are a coordinated force multiplier on the battlefield. That’s the point of an MMORPG is group building.

Healers are by their design a supportive role. They belong in groups. Make your groups and be the cornerstone or join groups. If you want to solo be a true solo role build like a ganker or a tanky DK etc.


Folks that don’t want to join groups to PvP but fight next to groups legitimately don’t want to play an MMORPG. This is the LFR generation in Cyrodiil.

Oh ***. Seven years people have been fighting in big disorganized mobs in Cyrodiil, and it was an MMORPG the entire time. You want a MOBA, go play a MOBA.

I’m just answering the it’s not an MMORPG if crying. And most MMORPGs don’t have cyrodiil zerging lol. But they do enforce healers being in groups.

badmojo

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

But no amount of building for it or sacrifice is going to give us back the ability to heal allies. Yes there might be some overlooked skills that still work. But their intent is to remove ally healing, I am not about to craft a build around their incompetence at implementing their change.

Instead of building a build; you could build a group. Now your heals hit allies and you are a coordinated force multiplier on the battlefield. That’s the point of an MMORPG is group building.

Healers are by their design a supportive role. They belong in groups. Make your groups and be the cornerstone or join groups. If you want to solo be a true solo role build like a ganker or a tanky DK etc.


Folks that don’t want to join groups to PvP but fight next to groups legitimately don’t want to play an MMORPG. This is the LFR generation in Cyrodiil.

I've been in groups plenty. In that post you replied to I even said that I had to remove a group buff set to pick up the ability to cleanse allies.

In my opinion a group in Cyrodiil is like a squad in the military. You aren't ONLY fighting with and for that squad, rather you're fighting for your country and all the soldiers next to (and behind) you. When you are along side another squad, you work with them, not just beside them. When somebody gets hit and goes down, your medic helps them regardless of whos squad they are in. It's the same way I feel about Cyrodiil groups. My group sacrificed that buff set I was using so that we could help improve the entire faction. After purge went group only I was constantly seeing non group members at our sieges or keep defenses who were dying because of their lack of purge. Since I have the mindset of "we're all DC" then I was constantly stopping what I was doing and going to rez them, only to have them being targeted again and again, because the enemy is smart, and they notice when our group members ignore their siege shots due to me running around purging them, and they especially notice when somebody dies quickly to it without purging, who do you think they're going to focus on? So... I dropped the wormcult or whatever buff set I was using at the time and picked up stendarr so I could cleanse our allies, because if DC is stronger as a whole, our faction has a better chance of success, and as a result our group succeeds.

It's kind of funny how you're telling me to group up, when I am trying to support the entire faction, not just 1 group in it. It's an MMORPG not a GroupOnlineRPG. Those players around your group aren't just a backdrop, if you play with them, everyone becomes stronger.

alterfenixeb17_ESO

This is sadly picture that it is currently. Multiple groups sieging or defending keep and barely able to support each other. They are not on same voice comm, they do not coordinate actions during siege via text (also limited possibilities here), now they cannot even support each other with heals and purges. Sad story but it feels more like separating them than anything else.

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

And most MMORPGs don’t have cyrodiil zerging lol. But they do enforce healers being in groups.

Sorry but judging from this post you probably did not play many (if any at all) RvR games.

DAoC - yes, in it's prime time it had it. Lots of players in one place following same objectives.
WAR - that game had it right from launch til the very end of it. In fact possibly even more players in same zone fighting for same objectives than TESO had in any Cyro campaign in its prime time back those 6 years ago.
GW2 - the only reason why it is not so obvious now is that potentially popularity of RvR there dropped so much.
Aion - had it at launch for some time. Was fun really to see a few groups, 36 people each to go for same objectives. Just company was not investing in it as players found that design of it is just too repetitive and limited - had little to do btw with all player population doing it but rather with how uninteresting and not rewarding in the end it was by comparison to the rest of the game.

I could name also some f2p titles that come to my mind too. Sorry but that is just what RvR gameplay is. I can agree that most MMORPG games do not have RvR and should it happen they have some battlegrounds they are just much closer to MOBA games indeed in this area.

Also point of MMORPG games is rather to provide environment for player driven group creation and not enforced one. Which means players should be encouraged to do so and not enforced.

Xeniph

Dyngrin wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Hyperbole,

I have been MMOing since 1997 and in all that time I can only recall ESO allowing you to heal non-group members.

The very first AvA (coined RvR by that game) did NOT allow you to heal or buff anyone outside of your own group. So while I can see this change may be frustrating for you, it's not outside the norm, in fact ESO was outside the norm.

I always thought it was odd to allow healing/buffing outside your group and lets not even talk about how easy ESO made healing in the first place with it's genre changing "smart healing" feature.

Ultima Online (UO) was one of the first successful PvP MMOs (it was 2D) and it allowed healing/bandaging anyone in your faction. Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC, then later Warhammer) which was very successful, one of the first that was 3D, and defined the 3 faction MMO, also allowed healing/buffing of anyone in your faction. There were others since I usually played a healing/support class and if I recall correctly includes Everquest (PvP), World of Warcraft (PvP), Aion, and Age of Conan.

Groups originated as simply a means of communicating with a sub group of your faction that would move together, so it usually showed the leader/crown and group members on the map, and group members health. ESO later corrupted this subset of players to limit a few abilities (how does this fit even in lore?) and now even healing. So now with one patch, where I could heal any of hundreds of faction mates I can now heal AT MOST 12, while damage dealers can continue to target any of hundreds. Ridiculous.

What is next up for the group limit nerf? Resurrection? Siege Usage? Only seeing friendly players in your group? It my as well be group instanced -- which is not a true MMO.

--Dyn

I played most all of those games mentioned from release day and for a few years. and none of them allowed buffing/healing outside a party during combat while I played.

UO did not allow healing outside your group and the factions (Order/Chaos) were largely unused. It was the criminal system and Felluca that made pvp system successful. DAoC most certainly did not allow healing/buffing outside your group, otherwise I would not have had to make a buff bot account to buff my Infil. Warhammer was the same as DAoC in "open world" , though since it had "scenerios" as well, it force grouped there, like our BG's so healing an ally worked inside those as you were basically grouped. Wow did not have an "open world" to speak of but you could not heal outside of your party there either, but again had BG's which force grouped you and worked like ESO's.

Never played Everquest ( I was playing UO)Aion or Conan or GW 1/2 as I was playing better games that fit my playstyle at the time.

So no, this change is not out of the norm for the genre. In fact as a person who has almost exclusively solo'd in years of mmo's, I think it's a friggen fantastic change

alterfenixeb17_ESO

Xeniph wrote: »

DAoC most certainly did not allow healing/buffing outside your group, otherwise I would not have had to make a buff bot account to buff my Infil. Warhammer was the same as DAoC in "open world" , though since it had "scenerios" as well, it force grouped there, like our BG's so healing an ally worked inside those as you were basically grouped

In DAoC most certainly it did. Only buffs were and still are for groups. As for heals there you have single target heals and group heals. Group heal is only limited to group while single target for any friendly target you are currently targeting regardless of the group itself. in WAR both in case of original release as well as current private server works exactly same - group heals for group, single target heals for anyone in your realm.

renne

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Dyngrin wrote: »

It is absurd in an MMO (which ESO is no longer, PVP-wise), that a player that has offensive abilities can attack all players in an opposing faction, but a player that has healing/support abilities CANNOT HELP ALL PLAYERS IN THEIR OWN FACTION (only their group, if any). Some of us actually like to heal/buff any player in their faction in need, grouped or not.

Since the dawn of Alliance vs Alliance MMOs (and I have played nearly all of them), a player could build a healer/support avatar TO SUPPORT THEIR FACTION. This too has been part of ESO's design since the very beginning (and I've been playing ESO that long). It stems from the classic DPS/Ranged, Tank/Melee, Healer/Buffer archetypes that pre-dated MMOs.

For ZOS to so casually make such a huge design change for "behavioral" reasons is inexcusable.

For those players not against the change or even for it, you have no idea how much healing and buffing you were getting from the many healers/buffers that WERE PLAYING, so enjoy DYING MORE QUICKLY AND MORE OFTEN, and the same horrible lag.

--Dyn The Disgusted

A templar can still heal non grouped allies with some abilities as can Wardens.

What templar skills can still heal non-grouped allies?

Greasytengu

renne wrote: »

What templar skills can still heal non-grouped allies?

Ones I can confirm:

Mend Wounds (the Psijiic heal)

You can still heal people via applying lifesteal to enemies (Blood Alter and Force Siphon)

Ungrouped allies can still activate synergies (EX: Cleansing Ritual, Blood Alter, Necrotic Orb)



Unconfirmed:

The ally heal from Purifying Light may be able to target outside of group.

Set effects that apply to allies on activation of a synergy may work on ungrouped allys.


Sadly, there is very little a templar can do to heal outside their group that anyone else can. Given that the meta for cross healing is now reliant on skills you have to aim and synergies, warden is probably your best bet.

UppGRAYxDD

On the bright side, squishy randos won’t steal my Hotd...

ThePedge

Great change