ESO Devs are taking a very dangerous path

Ashenkin

This is the very first time I post in a game's forum ever so please bare with me

So let's review the actions the Dev team are taking towards the community and the game in general:

- MMOs are community based games, but the Devs are simply Ignoring/overlooking the community and its' needs(whether be it casual, Semi-hardcore or hardcore PvEers and PvPers, RP... etc). So, I honestly can't speak for RPers or casuals but from what I've been told they aren't happy with how the devs are tackling their needs. for RPers, they don't find character fashion too attractive (so does 90% of ESO popultation Duh) and there aren't enough options when it comes to character customization (Colors, HAIRSTYLES, shapes... etc) I'm pretty sure people have discussed this before but it only proves my point, ZoS are disconnected from their community. Casual players usually wanna login and have fun doing stuff in the game like questing/Map completion/dungeons/gathering/trading/normal trials/PvP, but the truth is they're faced with so many things including bugs that potentially ruin their experience and when they voice it, they rarely get any response, and if they did, it's a late one. for Semi-hardcore/hardcore players, the devs don't seem to understand their needs at all. The content design and the direction of fixes doesn't seem to be hitting the jackpot for them. [snip] They keep messing with the combat and missing the point. Combat isn't the domain you wanna fix folks... let's get this straight, the combat is amazing hence why lots of hardcore players still play this game to date, just do what it takes to fix the servers and provide a stable performance to players WITHOUT messing with the combat itself. oh and By the way, this doesn't include adding / reworking skills, please feel free to do so but under control and monitoring. For content design, the Veteran DLC dungeons are decent but could've been more and better, the Trial (Kyne's Aegis) is unfortunately underwhelming. PvP content is... non-existent ? oh wait! yes, group queue, but ONLY random... you can't choose the mode (Seriously?).

- Monetization (crown store, ESO+, DLCs): Basically, adding the first point I mentioned above to this one will only make the Devs look like another careless greedy/money milking company that has no passion and puts no effort in catering for their playerbase. I totally understand that a company will need income to keep the game going and everything running but what I can't understand is not satisfy the needs of those behind this income. So with Markarth DLC pushed, almost every player in the game noticed how unplayable the game is, I mean the functionality of combat was tampered with, and the Devs rushed to hotfix Crown store but not the game. I don't think the Devs realize how serious the situation is with combat... and we still haven't seen or heard about a compensation in any shape or form, an example could be extend ESO + duration for everyday the game is still not fixed. If such things happen and the players don't feel any kind of attention or care, they will start quitting the game and you will start losing revenue. Another thing to mention is the DLCs and chapters, it's so overwhelming for newcomers and players to understand the way you categorize your game packages... everything about it is so messy you just need to be more clear. Also, I don't mind paying for something I enjoy but those prices are a little bit crazy.

-Pushing content for competitive purposes: competition with other companies/games is healthy, but not when you shove content that is not properly tested and nowhere near finished state. Please understand that those playing your games are humans and they deserve a better treatment and respect. My excitement for Markarth turned into an utter disappointment... logging in to find out that the only thing I enjoy the most (combat) is not working as it should be, what's the point of even playing? if I can't enjoy running dungeons with friends, running trials with guildmates, PvP in Cyrodiil/BGs... what's the point of playing?

I'm sorry if it's too negative but that's the reality of how things are right now

One can only speculate they released Markarth to beat the shadows if you know what I mean but it backfired...

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Muttsmutt

Ashenkin wrote: »

they haven't the slightest idea of how anything related to end game works

this one stood out to me.
imagine you're a game dev team, yea?
you make a game. you spend thousands of hours between dozens of people to design top of the industry, engaging, challenging content for the most skilled players, carefully considering the massive scope of the game and all of the possible angles the players could approach it, all of the possible impacts it could have on the rest of the game's ecosystem, all of the ways in which it could be unfair- and after months of work, it's ready.
the end game. the most difficult content you've worked so hard to create. from nothing, came ideas, and from ideas, you made something players can find fun in figuring out.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Mythreindeer

OP you have projected your opinions on the ESO community as if we all share your opinions. Some will, many do not.

Arthur_Spoonfondle

Zenimax are doing the same thing as many others. They have created a great game, then ruined it to satisfy lazy gamers who want everything now and, to maximise income, with an endless parade of pointless fluff at the expense of game quality.

In 2014 they said the whole of Tamriel would be made available to play, how many years is that going to take? It's taking a whole year to launch Skyrim, just one zone.

If only Zenimax would allow Bethesda to get on with Elder Scrolls 6. Anyone who believes the delay is not because they are milking TESO is delusional.

badmojo

You didnt mention they are removing healing allies in Cyrodiil on monday.

Priorities.

mairwen85

Arthur_Spoonfondle wrote: »

Zenimax are doing the same thing as many others. They have created a great game, then ruined it to satisfy lazy gamers who want everything now and, to maximise income, with an endless parade of pointless fluff at the expense of game quality.

In 2014 they said the whole of Tamriel would be made available to play, how many years is that going to take? It's taking a whole year to launch Skyrim, just one zone.

If only Zenimax would allow Bethesda to get on with Elder Scrolls 6. Anyone who believes the delay is not because they are milking TESO is delusional.

ZOS and Bethesda Game Studios are separate entities in the Zenimax Media family. They are both subsidiaries, but they have their own budgets, staff, and management. On a side note, TES6 is slated for next gen consoles.

You're right, it takes them 12 months to deliver 2 zones on average. What did you expect? Remember that there is a life cycle and expected longevity to the product.

Husan

Ashenkin wrote: »

One can only speculate they released Markarth to beat the shadows if you know what I mean but it backfired...

I know exactly what you mean. But the shadows were postponed and are most likely to have way smoother launch experience. Sure patch day might get extended and have many issues (let's face it, this is the case in most online games), but even with what is atleast a triple at minimum and tenfold at the most larger audience, there will be less threads like this on their forums.

Why? Because people will play the game.

I for one, would surely not spend so much time complaining on the forums if the game worked properly. I would play.

All ZOS needs to do is fix the game. I can't believe I'm asking for a product I pay for to be polished first before it is released. In any other field except gaming such things just do not fly. Yet they expect us to be contempt with the half broken and sometimes literally unplayable game. We need to vote with our vallets. I dropped my ESO+ and don't plan to renew until the crashing stops, light attack weaving works and WW ulti stops reseting. I'm asking for the bare minimum here. And they are either unable to deliver and are bad at communicating it or just unwilling, which I fear is the case.

No apology, no post that would show any signs of regret or understanding, no nothing. And the most unbelieavable part: the community plays along! Whenever someone suggests compensation for the problems we are experiencing in either ESO+ days extension or crowns they get shut down by others. The attitude of ZOS towards it's customers and the lack of understanding is appalling and it needs to change. I played a freemium mobile game that gave me compensation every time the server was slightly laggy, and I didn't even pay for that game. Here, I loose atleast 2 days of ESO+ every month just because of extended maintenance. I literally cannot access the paid product. In what way are we not entitled to get those two days extended? I do not understand.

Thanks for listening to my rant. If you do your part by expressing your concerns it actually goes a long way. Ofcourse voting with your vallet works better, but I cannot expect everyone to do that. Just find a way to let them know what they are doing is not alright.

ZOS, fix our game please. Thanks.

PrimusNephilim

Muttsmutt wrote: »

Ashenkin wrote: »

they haven't the slightest idea of how anything related to end game works

this one stood out to me.
imagine you're a game dev team, yea?
you make a game. you spend thousands of hours between dozens of people to design top of the industry, engaging, challenging content for the most skilled players, carefully considering the massive scope of the game and all of the possible angles the players could approach it, all of the possible impacts it could have on the rest of the game's ecosystem, all of the ways in which it could be unfair- and after months of work, it's ready.
the end game. the most difficult content you've worked so hard to create. from nothing, came ideas, and from ideas, you made something players can find fun in figuring out.

[snip]

^^ hitting the nail on the head

Ashenkin

Husan wrote: »

Ashenkin wrote: »

I played a freemium mobile game that gave me compensation every time the server was slightly laggy, and I didn't even pay for that game.

What could possibly go wrong if they did? nothing! on the contrary, it will increase the bond with the community and reduce the frustration...

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ashenkin wrote: »

[snip]from what I've been told[/snip]

From what you've been told ? By whom ?

From what we've been told everywhere : here on this forum, in the game, in the reviews, in the newspapers, etc etc... ESO has been on the verge of dying ever since before its release. ESO was supposed to be washed away by WoW, by WildStar, by Black Desert, etc. From what we've been told everywhere, ZOS has always ignored the community and the feedback, and always done everything wrong, the design, the combat, the stories, the community management, the business model, the crown store, the internal management, the pricing, the allocation resources and even the cash income.

Yet ESO is nearly 7 years old and counting. And growing. And thriving. It's perhaps the most successful MMO of the gaming history after WoW.

They must be doing something right.
And may I carefully consider that whatever we've been "hearing" from whatever self-proclaimed experts and know-it-all may be wrong ?

Take your example of Markarth DLC being rather heavily bugged and your recommendation of ZOS postponing the release ? Well, you're wrong, not ZOS. Obviously, an unhappy/angry customer is still, albeit complaining, a playing customer, and a customer. A BORED customer, on the contrary, with no more content to run, who switches to another game, is a LOST customer, potentially FOREVER. ZOS know what they're doing.

Tandor

Ashenkin wrote: »

<snip> I'm sorry if it's too negative but that's the reality of how things are right now. <snip>

For you and some others, maybe. For everyone? Not so.

Husan

To piggyback on my last comment, THIS is what I mean by an appaling attitude and lack of understanding.

By now, most of the community realises something is terribly wrong with the game. From personal experience, a vast majority of people are experiencing crashes in group content (including 4 man and 12 man content). And what is the ZOS response to when these players raise the issue in the forums? "have you tried updating your graphics drivers?"

This makes me boil inside. Instead of taking responsibility, admitting there are issues with the game, they push the responsibility to the players. Imagine being treated like this in any other service. If I go to a restaurant and order a steak, and it arrives cold, I do not need instructions on how to fix my microwave to heat it up. It's not my job to heat it up. I need the steak to arrive hot!

edit: another thread about crashes with the same copypaste response. Wake up ZOS, these crashes are not happening due to user error. If they are and I need an IT degree to solve these issues, then something is wrong as well in this picture. Fix the game.

Ashenkin

PrimusNephilim wrote: »

Muttsmutt wrote: »

Ashenkin wrote: »

they haven't the slightest idea of how anything related to end game works

this one stood out to me.
imagine you're a game dev team, yea?
you make a game. you spend thousands of hours between dozens of people to design top of the industry, engaging, challenging content for the most skilled players, carefully considering the massive scope of the game and all of the possible angles the players could approach it, all of the possible impacts it could have on the rest of the game's ecosystem, all of the ways in which it could be unfair- and after months of work, it's ready.
the end game. the most difficult content you've worked so hard to create. from nothing, came ideas, and from ideas, you made something players can find fun in figuring out.

[snip]

^^ hitting the nail on the head

what nail? the game is broken and he dares mention that

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ashenkin wrote: »

[snip]from what I've been told[/snip]

From what you've been told ? By whom ?

From what we've been told everywhere : here on this forum, in the game, in the reviews, in the newspapers, etc etc... ESO has been on the verge of dying ever since before its release. ESO was supposed to be washed away by WoW, by WildStar, by Black Desert, etc. From what we've been told everywhere, ZOS has always ignored the community and the feedback, and always done everything wrong, the design, the combat, the stories, the community management, the business model, the crown store, the internal management, the pricing, the allocation resources and even the cash income.

Yet ESO is nearly 7 years old and counting. And growing. And thriving. It's perhaps the most successful MMO of the gaming history after WoW.

They must be doing something right.
And may I carefully consider that whatever we've been "hearing" from whatever self-proclaimed experts and know-it-all may be wrong ?

Take your example of Markarth DLC being rather heavily bugged and your recommendation of ZOS postponing the release ? Well, you're wrong, not ZOS. Obviously, an unhappy/angry customer is still, albeit complaining, a playing customer, and a customer. A BORED customer, on the contrary, with no more content to run, who switches to another game, is a LOST customer, potentially FOREVER. ZOS know what they're doing.

I haven't came here complaining out of hate, I'm addicted to the game and would love to see it get better

the best after WoW? sadly not true, have you seen FFXIV? if you haven't go check it out
also trust me if they keep screwing up the combat in addition to the other factors any further people won't be staying for too long and it will eventually lead to a death of a game... just like many others did

Ashenkin

Nairinhe wrote: »

[snip]

sky doesn't fall

[edited to remove quote]

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

Nairinhe

Ashenkin wrote: »

Nairinhe wrote: »

[snip]

sky doesn't fall

Yay!

[edited to remove quote]

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ashenkin wrote: »

I haven't came here complaining out of hate, I'm addicted to the game and would love to see it get better

So did all the complainers and self-proclaimed experts and unsollicited advisors and doom-sayers before you.

And no, they did not want the game to "get better". They wanted the game to suit more to their own personal taste, pretending, in good or in bad faith, that it represented the taste of the vast majority. Which it doesn't.
ESO players have a huge palette of playstyles and preferences, and ZOS does a very good job at collecting them, and then weighing them and making choices. If they didn't, the game would be dead already. Simple as that.
You have every right to have an opinion about ESO, and also to have wishes for its future, and to express all these.
But pretending that ESO will die if ZOS does not follow your advice is wayyy over the top - and certainly completely wrong.
You know nothing about running a videogame. You know nothing about the playerbase, and you know nothing bout what's best overall for the game.

To be honest, neither do I. But I see what the reality is :
1/ ESO is extremely healthy, player population is alive, kicking and growing
2/ ESO has been here for nearly 7 years with no sign of weakness
3/ ESO is buggy (which AAA-sized videogame isn't ?)
4/ Players are complaining (which gamer doesn't ?)

Ashenkin wrote: »

I haven't came here complaining out of hate, I'm addicted to the game and would love to see it get better

See ? You're complaining but you're still here. Shows that ZOS is doing things the right way.

Ashenkin wrote: »

the best after WoW? sadly not true, have you seen FFXIV? if you haven't go check it out

I didn't say "the best". I said "the most successful".
I have no intention to spend time "checking another game". I'm fine with ESO.
Now if FFXIV is that great, why don't you get back to it ? Nope, you're still playing ESO. Albeit complaining. See, ZOS must be doing things right after all.

Ashenkin wrote: »

also trust me if they keep screwing up the combat in addition to the other factors any further people won't be staying for too long and it will eventually lead to a death of a game... just like many others did

*yawn*...
If I'd earned a penny each time I've read this on these forums since 2014, I'd be a millionaire by now.
Stop the [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

Cadbury

Ashenkin wrote: »

Nairinhe wrote: »

[snip]

sky doesn't fall

[edited to remove quote]

Denyiir

Nairinhe wrote: »

[snip]

Nerf sorc ?

[edited to remove quote]

Ashenkin

Cadbury wrote: »

Ashenkin wrote: »

Nairinhe wrote: »

[snip]

sky doesn't fall

I was caught out of guard... I didn't see that one coming

[edited to remove quote]

Nairinhe

Denyiir wrote: »

Nairinhe wrote: »

[snip]

Nerf sorc ?

I knew!

[edited to remove quote]

Ashenkin

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ashenkin wrote: »

I haven't came here complaining out of hate, I'm addicted to the game and would love to see it get better

So did all the complainers and self-proclaimed experts and unsollicited advisors and doom-sayers before you.

And no, they did not want the game to "get better". They wanted the game to suit more to their own personal taste, pretending, in good or in bad faith, that it represented the taste of the vast majority. Which it doesn't.
ESO players have a huge palette of playstyles and preferences, and ZOS does a very good job at collecting them, and then weighing them and making choices. If they didn't, the game would be dead already. Simple as that.
You have every right to have an opinion about ESO, and also to have wishes for its future, and to express all these.
But pretending that ESO will die if ZOS does not follow your advice is wayyy over the top - and certainly completely wrong.
You know nothing about running a videogame. You know nothing about the playerbase, and you know nothing bout what's best overall for the game.

To be honest, neither do I. But I see what the reality is :
1/ ESO is extremely healthy, player population is alive, kicking and growing
2/ ESO has been here for nearly 7 years with no sign of weakness
3/ ESO is buggy (which AAA-sized videogame isn't ?)
4/ Players are complaining (which gamer doesn't ?)

Ashenkin wrote: »

I haven't came here complaining out of hate, I'm addicted to the game and would love to see it get better

See ? You're complaining but you're still here. Shows that ZOS is doing things the right way.

Ashenkin wrote: »

the best after WoW? sadly not true, have you seen FFXIV? if you haven't go check it out

I didn't say "the best". I said "the most successful".
I have no intention to spend time "checking another game". I'm fine with ESO.
Now if FFXIV is that great, why don't you get back to it ? Nope, you're still playing ESO. Albeit complaining. See, ZOS must be doing things right after all.

Ashenkin wrote: »

also trust me if they keep screwing up the combat in addition to the other factors any further people won't be staying for too long and it will eventually lead to a death of a game... just like many others did

*yawn*...
If I'd earned a penny each time I've read this on these forums since 2014, I'd be a millionaire by now.
Stop the [snip]

fixing bugs and getting the game to work as intended is just to suit my personal taste? ok if you say so

[edited to remove quote]

Thannazzar

TBH this ship has sailed,

Would love to be in the next Dev Meeting, likely to go something like this:

`Hmm this stickerbook collection is really popular, but let me get this straight: For vet players who have:
- Farmed all the items/achievements/antiquities from the stickerbook in DLC zones
- Managed to empty their banks and storage as a result, leaving lots of room for Materials
- Already fully decorated their houses to our cap....

what incentive is there for them to continue subbing given they are already not persuaded by our statue of the month club?"

...... silent realisation.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Ashenkin wrote: »

fixing bugs and getting the game to work as intended is just to suit my personal taste? ok if you say so

90% of the points you mention are about design choices, not bugs. So they reflect your personal taste.

As to the bugs themselves, when you balance fixing them with the option of postponing the release of new content, yes, that's your personal taste.

One of the major things I enjoy with ESO is the steady and reliable flow of new content. They kept their promise of 4x a year : 2x2dungeons, 1xchapter, 1xzone DLC). That matters to me. And the few bugs that will be corrected later on don't matter that much to me. But a delay in releasing the chapter would have mattered a lot to me.

danno8

Thannazzar wrote: »

TBH this ship has sailed,

Would love to be in the next Dev Meeting, likely to go something like this:

`Hmm this stickerbook collection is really popular, but let me get this straight: For vet players who have:
- Farmed all the items/achievements/antiquities from the stickerbook in DLC zones
- Managed to empty their banks and storage as a result, leaving lots of room for Materials
- Already fully decorated their houses to our cap....

what incentive is there for them to continue subbing given they are already not persuaded by our statue of the month club?"

...... silent realisation.

The answer is obvious no?

Nerf certain sets and buff others consistently facilitating the need to constantly farm Transmutation stones. Stick those in content you want your player base to run.

Transmutation stones become the defacto item sets.

eKsDee

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ashenkin wrote: »

[snip]from what I've been told[/snip]

From what you've been told ? By whom ?

From what we've been told everywhere : here on this forum, in the game, in the reviews, in the newspapers, etc etc... ESO has been on the verge of dying ever since before its release. ESO was supposed to be washed away by WoW, by WildStar, by Black Desert, etc. From what we've been told everywhere, ZOS has always ignored the community and the feedback, and always done everything wrong, the design, the combat, the stories, the community management, the business model, the crown store, the internal management, the pricing, the allocation resources and even the cash income.

Yet ESO is nearly 7 years old and counting. And growing. And thriving. It's perhaps the most successful MMO of the gaming history after WoW.

They must be doing something right.
And may I carefully consider that whatever we've been "hearing" from whatever self-proclaimed experts and know-it-all may be wrong ?

Take your example of Markarth DLC being rather heavily bugged and your recommendation of ZOS postponing the release ? Well, you're wrong, not ZOS. Obviously, an unhappy/angry customer is still, albeit complaining, a playing customer, and a customer. A BORED customer, on the contrary, with no more content to run, who switches to another game, is a LOST customer, potentially FOREVER. ZOS know what they're doing.

The thing they've been doing right is catering to a crowd who isn't here looking for an MMO, and making this game more of a glorified single player game where you simply exist in the same world as other players, with minimal interaction being necessary to do the vast majority of content offered. In other words, they've been turning this into something other than an MMO, while continuing to sell this as an MMO.

If you actually compare ESO to other MMO's, it gets slaughtered. Other MMO's offer far more engaging content that encourages grouping, on top of engaging gameplay that has a high skill/knowledge ceiling to instill a sense of long-term progression, along with actual long-term goals to help facilitate that long-term progression by giving players something to aim for in the long term.

ESO? The only engaging content is group content, as anything overland is a complete cakewalk for anybody who isn't a complete beginner. The gameplay keeps getting dumbed down patch after patch, with more and more sets being released that literally deal damage for you, on top of skillful mechanics being nerfed or outright removed to streamline the game. The only really tangible long-term goals we have right now is the antiquities system and the new set collections, but the former is having the impactful items being drip fed to players across updates, and the latter is only for pure convenience and won't last forever.

Where's the engaging overland content, where's the dynamic world events that may be done solo, or may require a full raid to complete, that offer good rewards to give players a reason to do overland beyond just quests? Where's the responsive and skillful gameplay that ESO was known and loved for years ago, where's the class identity and the fun class mechanics? Where's the truly impactful additions to shake things up, where's things like truly diverse mounts that can be unlocked through gameplay?

Until ESO can answer these things, it cannot truly compete with other MMO's, because it's not truly an MMO like them, no matter how much we or the devs say it is.

Inaya

Apparently no one actually reads the forums of the game ESO is constantly compared to.
Some topics from WOW forums:

The newbie questline is COMPLETELY broken and cannot be completed
Game is not worth a sub
Bliz, do you not want us to play?
Undercurrent ability not working?
Can’t solo lower level dungeons and raids anymore!
Heirloom items are worthless!
Benthic gear is the best you can get now as you hit level 50!
Shadowlands according to Beta Testers is terrible!
Leveling still takes as long before squish patch!
Can only que for BfA Dungeons and Raids!
OMG! Is Blizzard trying to kill off WoW?
Please, FIX scaling for crying out loud
People who buy the mounts and mogs of the shop are making this game terrible
Major lag please help
[snip] Did You do to Enhance Shamans?!
I can’t go 24 hours without finding bugs
Servers go boom?

[edited for profanity bypass]

Ashenkin

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ashenkin wrote: »

fixing bugs and getting the game to work as intended is just to suit my personal taste? ok if you say so

90% of the points you mention are about design choices, not bugs. So they reflect your personal taste.

As to the bugs themselves, when you balance fixing them with the option of postponing the release of new content, yes, that's your personal taste.

One of the major things I enjoy with ESO is the steady and reliable flow of new content. They kept their promise of 4x a year : 2x2dungeons, 1xchapter, 1xzone DLC). That matters to me. And the few bugs that will be corrected later on don't matter that much to me. But a delay in releasing the chapter would have mattered a lot to me.

I would rather wait for chicken to get ready then dig in... not undercooked, not burnt.

eKsDee wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Ashenkin wrote: »

[snip]from what I've been told[/snip]

From what you've been told ? By whom ?

From what we've been told everywhere : here on this forum, in the game, in the reviews, in the newspapers, etc etc... ESO has been on the verge of dying ever since before its release. ESO was supposed to be washed away by WoW, by WildStar, by Black Desert, etc. From what we've been told everywhere, ZOS has always ignored the community and the feedback, and always done everything wrong, the design, the combat, the stories, the community management, the business model, the crown store, the internal management, the pricing, the allocation resources and even the cash income.

Yet ESO is nearly 7 years old and counting. And growing. And thriving. It's perhaps the most successful MMO of the gaming history after WoW.

They must be doing something right.
And may I carefully consider that whatever we've been "hearing" from whatever self-proclaimed experts and know-it-all may be wrong ?

Take your example of Markarth DLC being rather heavily bugged and your recommendation of ZOS postponing the release ? Well, you're wrong, not ZOS. Obviously, an unhappy/angry customer is still, albeit complaining, a playing customer, and a customer. A BORED customer, on the contrary, with no more content to run, who switches to another game, is a LOST customer, potentially FOREVER. ZOS know what they're doing.

The thing they've been doing right is catering to a crowd who isn't here looking for an MMO, and making this game more of a glorified single player game where you simply exist in the same world as other players, with minimal interaction being necessary to do the vast majority of content offered. In other words, they've been turning this into something other than an MMO, while continuing to sell this as an MMO.

If you actually compare ESO to other MMO's, it gets slaughtered. Other MMO's offer far more engaging content that encourages grouping, on top of engaging gameplay that has a high skill/knowledge ceiling to instill a sense of long-term progression, along with actual long-term goals to help facilitate that long-term progression by giving players something to aim for in the long term.

ESO? The only engaging content is group content, as anything overland is a complete cakewalk for anybody who isn't a complete beginner. The gameplay keeps getting dumbed down patch after patch, with more and more sets being released that literally deal damage for you, on top of skillful mechanics being nerfed or outright removed to streamline the game. The only really tangible long-term goals we have right now is the antiquities system and the new set collections, but the former is having the impactful items being drip fed to players across updates, and the latter is only for pure convenience and won't last forever.

Where's the engaging overland content, where's the dynamic world events that may be done solo, or may require a full raid to complete, that offer good rewards to give players a reason to do overland beyond just quests? Where's the responsive and skillful gameplay that ESO was known and loved for years ago, where's the class identity and the fun class mechanics? Where's the truly impactful additions to shake things up, where's things like truly diverse mounts that can be unlocked through gameplay?

Until ESO can answer these things, it cannot truly compete with other MMO's, because it's not truly an MMO like them, no matter how much we or the devs say it is.

This person previously mentioned that "ZoS know what they're doing"... I want them to explain the situation with Cyrodiil, never ending worthless sets balancing and thrassian stranglers.

DaveMoeDee

And here I was, ecstatic about the set collection and how I can focus on playing the game instead of juggling inventory slots. I didn't realize I was supposed to be unhappy.

I'm also enjoying the Markarth story. And I have been clearing a backlog of DLC dungeons that I have been ignoring due to not wanting to deal with inventory.

eKsDee wrote: »

...
The thing they've been doing right is catering to a crowd who isn't here looking for an MMO, and making this game more of a glorified single player game where you simply exist in the same world as other players, with minimal interaction being necessary to do the vast majority of content offered. In other words, they've been turning this into something other than an MMO, while continuing to sell this as an MMO.
...

Well, that describes me. I'm not looking for an MMO. Haven't played any others. I enjoy my guilds. I enjoy group content like dungeons and trials. I also enjoy really large sieges in Cyrodiil now and then. I find the events a little annoying. I feel like dailies are dumb, but I'll do them to get achievements when I'm done with narrative content or I'll just get the daily quest and clear it if I happen to be passing by it doing zone quests.

Though I take part in the group stuff, I am here for the lore and the narrative. Though I take part in Cyrodiil at times, I don't care one iota about being good at PvP and I don't care if I die (apart from horseriding to get back to a fight). I really enjoy hard group content, which I usually tank--though it makes questing annoying even when I swap gear.

There are so many things about the game design that are so cheesy because it is an MMO. Like the trash mobs everywhere that chase you and then run back to their spot when you move to far away. But I love the game despite it being an MMO.

While I could be classified as a casual, I am halfway through a 12 month sub of ESO+ and have been playing since beta minus a vacation from 4 months post launch to Tamriel Unlimited.

I don't know why you are hung up on the classification of MMO. That doesn't matter. What matters is if people enjoy this game. Craglorn is a major reason why I just bailed after my 3 month sub finished at launch (plus the 1 month sub included in purchase of game). I had no interest in forced grouping in narrative content and even less interest in repeating dungeons or PvP over and over and over again. Zones might as well be story mode as far as I am concerned. I remember people at launch who loved the game in general, but quit because it was just way too hard for them. That is a shame when there is so much lore to enjoy.

DeathStalker_X

Here's the thing - if you buy ANY other product, you expect it to work CORRECTLY when you buy it. You buy a car and one of the doors doesn't open and the manufacturer say "oh yeah, sorry about that, we're working on a fix for it" what do you think your reaction is going to be?

ONLY in software does this behavior seem to be acceptable. MOST of the time it's not the fault of the actual coders, the problem lies with both QA AND the Product Owner. That's how things are done now, Agile. How do I know this, because that is what I do for a living. If my team doesn't turn out a PROPERLY FUNCTIONING product to my consumer, they're going to be dissatisfied.

There is NO "but don't you like what we did with this?' or "Isn't this nice?" NO - if it doesn't work as it is EXPECTED (and PROMISED) to work, it is NOT ACCEPTABLE. That just the plain FACTS. It's SLOPPY and there is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Simply put, there IS no excuse.

Elvenheart

Inaya wrote: »

Apparently no one actually reads the forums of the game ESO is constantly compared to.
Some topics from WOW forums:

The newbie questline is COMPLETELY broken and cannot be completed
Game is not worth a sub
Bliz, do you not want us to play?
Undercurrent ability not working?
Can’t solo lower level dungeons and raids anymore!
Heirloom items are worthless!
Benthic gear is the best you can get now as you hit level 50!
Shadowlands according to Beta Testers is terrible!
Leveling still takes as long before squish patch!
Can only que for BfA Dungeons and Raids!
OMG! Is Blizzard trying to kill off WoW?
Please, FIX scaling for crying out loud
People who buy the mounts and mogs of the shop are making this game terrible
Major lag please help
[snip] Did You do to Enhance Shamans?!
I can’t go 24 hours without finding bugs
Servers go boom?

So funny, so true! 🤣

[edited to remove quote]