'Mercenary Status' in PVP or how to do purely PVE content in PVP zones without upsetting balance.

BlackKnight556

So earlier I started a thread about wanting PVE versions of Cyrodiil and Imperial City but I think that's too much to ask for. Essentially I want to be able to do the available PVE content, quests, dolmens, skyshards, Antiquity leads, etc without having to worry about being killed by other players. I don't do PVP, at all. So what I propose is the option to log into a campaign as an independent or mercenary or whatever term suits you. The idea is that you would be allied with every alliance and would be locked out of PVP content like capturing keeps, using siege weapons, damaging keep walls, etc, and would only be able to do purely PVE content. I think this would please everyone as those like me who just want to play in those areas without getting ganked could do so and those who want to PVP could do so and I think this would be much easier to implement into the game than whole new PVE instances of each zone. Just test it out, make sure it works and there are no exploits, and then implement it. Everybody wins.

SgtNuttzmeg

This by it's very nature is an exploit in Imperial City. Image being able to farm Tel Var without any real threat of death.

It also isn't fair because of how limited PVP is. We can't go into a pve zone and flag for pvp. Why should you be able to unflag pvp and go into a pvp zone?

Leave PVP achievements and rewards in pvp zones. If you need help doing them, group up and make a legit pvp build. Not all content needs to specifically cater to you.

VaranisArano

So...you want the rewards of a PVP-enabled zone while skipping all of the risk inherent in a PVP-enabled zone?

Nah. Play the zone as intended if you want the rewards.

Now, I'm all for a PVE-only version of the zone with separate rewards so that ZOS can calibrate the rewards to be appropriate with the considerably lower risk in the zone. I mean, look at Cyrodiil - the delves and town quests are super quick and easy if you don't have the risk of facing enemy players.

But no, you shouldn't be able to take up a queue spot in a PVP-enabled zone, then skip all risk of PVP, getting the exact same skyshards, leads, achievements, etc. as the players who actually completed the zones with the intended risk of PVP.

Edit: If implemented, I'd expect to see a big change to Midyear Mayhem. Its a PVP event, and we'd likely see a shift to forcing players to actually PVP by killing players, battlegrounds, or capturing objectives so that players couldn't bypass the intent of the event by flagging themselves as safe and doing town quests instead.

BlackKnight556

Imagine not being able to farm tel var stones? Also, imagine if you were able to challenge other players to duels in PVE zones? Oh, that's right, you can. I just want to quest, get skyshards, and most importantly farm Antiquity leads, most of which have nothing to do with PVP. Just lock a 'mercenary' out of everything PVP related. No tel var stones, no key fragments, no alliance points, no capturing zones or attacking alliance guard NPC's or anything!

edges_endgame

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

Imagine not being able to farm tel var stones? Also, imagine if you were able to challenge other players to duels in PVE zones? Oh, that's right, you can. I just want to quest, get skyshards, and most importantly farm Antiquity leads, most of which have nothing to do with PVP. Just lock a 'mercenary' out of everything PVP related. No tel var stones, no key fragments, no alliance points, no capturing zones or attacking alliance guard NPC's or anything!

Whats the point of such a zone?

SgtNuttzmeg

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

Imagine not being able to farm tel var stones? Also, imagine if you were able to challenge other players to duels in PVE zones? Oh, that's right, you can. I just want to quest, get skyshards, and most importantly farm Antiquity leads, most of which have nothing to do with PVP. Just lock a 'mercenary' out of everything PVP related. No tel var stones, no key fragments, no alliance points, no capturing zones or attacking alliance guard NPC's or anything!

See that's where you are wrong. Those are rewards for being involved in pvp. Several Skyshards are locked behind gates that only open when an enemy's alliance does poorly. It goes completely against the design of the zone to allow people to flag off pvp and to retrieve them. So no, this is a terrible idea. If people want things from pvp zones they should be prepared to defend themselves.

BlackKnight556

edges_endgame wrote: »

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

Imagine not being able to farm tel var stones? Also, imagine if you were able to challenge other players to duels in PVE zones? Oh, that's right, you can. I just want to quest, get skyshards, and most importantly farm Antiquity leads, most of which have nothing to do with PVP. Just lock a 'mercenary' out of everything PVP related. No tel var stones, no key fragments, no alliance points, no capturing zones or attacking alliance guard NPC's or anything!

What's the point of such a zone?

The same as any PVE zone. You get to complete quests, you get to read/hear fascinating stories about the people who have survived in the area, you get to gather Skyshards. You get to play the game.

BlackKnight556

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

Imagine not being able to farm tel var stones? Also, imagine if you were able to challenge other players to duels in PVE zones? Oh, that's right, you can. I just want to quest, get skyshards, and most importantly farm Antiquity leads, most of which have nothing to do with PVP. Just lock a 'mercenary' out of everything PVP related. No tel var stones, no key fragments, no alliance points, no capturing zones or attacking alliance guard NPC's or anything!

See that's where you are wrong. Those are rewards for being involved in pvp. Several Skyshards are locked behind gates that only open when an enemy's alliance does poorly. It goes completely against the design of the zone to allow people to flag off pvp and to retrieve them. So no, this is a terrible idea. If people want things from pvp zones they should be prepared to defend themselves.

No, they aren't. AP, Tel Var stones, Rewards for the worthy, items bought from PVP vendors with PVP currency. Those are PVP rewards. Skyshards, quests, and Antiquity leads are PVE content.

BlackKnight556

For instance, you have fighters guild quests in Cyrodiil to clear out NPC goblins (or some other NPC mob type) in an area. Tell me EXACTLY what these quests have to do with PVP other than happening to be in a PVP zone? Other than being in a PVP zone and possibly some of the rewards from completing them what do these quests have to do with PVP?

Chilly-McFreeze

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

Skyshards, quests, and Antiquity leads are PVE content.

Obviously the devs seem to think different about it.

VaranisArano

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

I just want to quest, get skyshards, and most importantly farm Antiquity leads, most of which have nothing to do with PVP. Just lock a 'mercenary' out of everything PVP related. No tel var stones, no key fragments, no alliance points, no capturing zones or attacking alliance guard NPC's or anything!

Remove ALL the rewards, and I agree. That includes skyshards, fish, dolmen achievements, delve achievements, all that.

You shouldn't be getting the same skyshards as the people who run for them as intended in PvPvE zones, with the risk of coming across enemy players in delves, dodging enemies at the milegates and bridges, looking out for gankers nearby, and going deep behind enemy lines for the ones near the scroll temples. There's a world of difference between strolling up to a skyshard in Summerset and anxiously judging whether or not its safe to grab one in Cyrodiil.

You shouldn't be getting the same fish as the people who are risking attacks by gankers in Cyrodiil and Imperial City, or sharing those few ocean water holes down by the AD gates with members of other alliances because its the only option. There's a world of difference between lazy fishing in Stonefalls and anxiously keeping an eye out for players in Imperial City.

I can continue, but frankly, flagging yourself as safe means you didn't accept any of the intended risks of earning those items or those achievements.

As stated, I don't mind having a separate, different set of items and achievements for people who do flag themselves as "safe," but let's not pretend that its anywhere near the same amount of stress or effort as the people who did it as intended. If it was, you wouldn't be asking to skip the risk.

BlackKnight556

You talk to an NPC or get the quest from a board. You travel to the area and kill the NPC enemies. You return to the quest giver and get your reward. NO other players are harmed in the experience. Doesn't sound much like PVP content to me because it ISN'T PVP content.

sharquez

Its time to put in the work everyone else has to do the content you want to do and stop begging for hand outs for optional content. Otherwise I want to get dungeon/trial skins/personality's by killing people in PVP who have earned them. Fetch off and tusk up to the task. This horse is mulch stop beating it.

BlackKnight556

VaranisArano wrote: »

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

I just want to quest, get skyshards, and most importantly farm Antiquity leads, most of which have nothing to do with PVP. Just lock a 'mercenary' out of everything PVP related. No tel var stones, no key fragments, no alliance points, no capturing zones or attacking alliance guard NPC's or anything!

Remove ALL the rewards, and I agree. That includes skyshards, fish, dolmen achievements, delve achievements, all that.

You shouldn't be getting the same skyshards as the people who run for them as intended in PvPvE zones, with the risk of coming across enemy players in delves, dodging enemies at the milegates and bridges, looking out for gankers nearby, and going deep behind enemy lines for the ones near the scroll temples. There's a world of difference between strolling up to a skyshard in Summerset and anxiously judging whether or not its safe to grab one in Cyrodiil.

You shouldn't be getting the same fish as the people who are risking attacks by gankers in Cyrodiil and Imperial City, or sharing those few ocean water holes down by the AD gates with members of other alliances because its the only option. There's a world of difference between lazy fishing in Stonefalls and anxiously keeping an eye out for players in Imperial City.

I can continue, but frankly, flagging yourself as safe means you didn't accept any of the intended risks of earning those items or those achievements.

As stated, I don't mind having a separate, different set of items and achievements for people who do flag themselves as "safe," but let's not pretend that its anywhere near the same amount of stress or effort as the people who did it as intended. If it was, you wouldn't be asking to skip the risk.

You make many fair points. And you're right, I wouldn't want the achievements to be the same and everything to be the same. I don't want someone to be able to do all of the content without danger from PVP play and then be able to brag like they did it in PVP. Really I just want what is fair for everyone on both sides.

SgtNuttzmeg

I want to draw your attention to the skyshards labeled 1 and 2. You will see six, two of each color. These six are behind locked gates. Meaning if you are not AD you cannot get behind that gate until they are unlocked, ie you take the inner keeps. Same for each of the alliances. Now lets say you take those keeps, you need to actually get into the gate, fight your way to the sky shard and then activate it. This is not nessicarily easy as players can interrupt or fight you will you attempt to do this. So skyshards general speaking might be PVE but the ones in PVP are placed in away that attempts to reward PVP. There is no PVE way to get them.

You can wait for an alliance to take these keeps and try to sneak back there and try to get them but that's besides the poin. As they are clearly designed to be rewards for pvp and are granted from pvp content.

This same principle applies to that antiquity. Just because a zone is PVX does not mean it should become just PVE. Further IC is usually dead. If you enter the zone the chances of actually being ganked are really low especially if you go in there with a group.

BlackKnight556

sharquez wrote: »

Its time to put in the work everyone else has to do the content you want to do and stop begging for hand outs for optional content. Otherwise I want to get dungeon/trial skins/personality's by killing people in PVP who have earned them. Fetch off and tusk up to the task. This horse is mulch stop beating it.

I want what is fair for everyone. I've worked my ass off to get things from dungeons and other PVE content. I've lost count of the number of times I've soloed group dungeons while farming for gear. Often not getting what I'm looking for. Like VaranisArano said it should be a different instance without the exact same rewards and achievements. So many of yall are acting like I want everything just handed to me on a plate. I spent 5 hours last night farming bosses in the Imperial city, solo, looking for one single lead. Throw me a *** bone here.

BlackKnight556

SgtNuttzmeg wrote: »

This same principle applies to that antiquity. Just because a zone is PVX does not mean it should become just PVE.

I don't want the zone to become purely PVE. I want the option, whether it be a completely separate instance or flagging myself as neutral to be able to experience the PVE content, the quests, the stories, the antiquity leads. I do not care in the least for the PVP content or any of the rewards.

VaranisArano

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

sharquez wrote: »

Its time to put in the work everyone else has to do the content you want to do and stop begging for hand outs for optional content. Otherwise I want to get dungeon/trial skins/personality's by killing people in PVP who have earned them. Fetch off and tusk up to the task. This horse is mulch stop beating it.

I want what is fair for everyone. I've worked my ass off to get things from dungeons and other PVE content. I've lost count of the number of times I've soloed group dungeons while farming for gear. Often not getting what I'm looking for. Like VaranisArano said it should be a different instance without the exact same rewards and achievements. So many of yall are acting like I want everything just handed to me on a plate. I spent 5 hours last night farming bosses in the Imperial city, solo, looking for one single lead. Throw me a *** bone here.

Yes, but the leads are likewise part of a PVP-enabled zone, just like those other skyshards and fish.

I know you want the lead badly, but consider:

A player who gets the IC lead as intended is risking fights with enemy players who are drawn by the Tel Var held by the boss, the Tel Var possibly held by the player, and the AP they can earn by killing the farming player - along with the chance to get the lead themselves. A player who flags themself as safe only has to face the PVE enemies.

If you skip the intended risk, should you really earn the same lead as the people who do?

Thing is, ZOS will always put rewards in PVP-enabled zones that players are going to want. That's the whole point of putting those rewards in - to reward players who want to PVP and to draw in players who wouldn't usually go to PVP.

So there's no getting around the intended risk for certain rewards that are really important to you, like leads. If not this, it's people complaining about event tickets. If not this, its people complaining that they can't farm anniversary boxes in peace. I've seen just about every reward ZOS put in a PVP-enabled zone come in for its share of begging "I want this so bad that ZOS should give me a safe option so I don't have to PVP for it!"

So, sorry, but when I say "It should be a different instance without the exact same rewards and achievements," I'm including leads in that. You shouldn't get the current Imperial City lead without the risks of PVP-enabled Imperial City.

idk

VaranisArano wrote: »

So...you want the rewards of a PVP-enabled zone while skipping all of the risk inherent in a PVP-enabled zone?

Nah. Play the zone as intended if you want the rewards.

Now, I'm all for a PVE-only version of the zone with separate rewards so that ZOS can calibrate the rewards to be appropriate with the considerably lower risk in the zone. I mean, look at Cyrodiil - the delves and town quests are super quick and easy if you don't have the risk of facing enemy players.

But no, you shouldn't be able to take up a queue spot in a PVP-enabled zone, then skip all risk of PVP, getting the exact same skyshards, leads, achievements, etc. as the players who actually completed the zones with the intended risk of PVP.

Edit: If implemented, I'd expect to see a big change to Midyear Mayhem. Its a PVP event, and we'd likely see a shift to forcing players to actually PVP by killing players, battlegrounds, or capturing objectives so that players couldn't bypass the intent of the event by flagging themselves as safe and doing town quests instead.

This. Especialy the first part. But also, if there were ever a PvE Cyrdoiil/IC zone all the sky shards and AvA skill points should be removed. That is something like 65 SP that should always be tied to PvP and the risk of it.

Also, MYM should never include a PvE only versions as that is intended as a PvP event.

Cirantille

I want to get into dungeons but I want an alliance officer rank so monsters shall not touch me

I just want the undaunted skill line guys, pls, thx

the1andonlyskwex

I'm against this idea, but what I'm certainly in favor of is having all of the best stuff for PvE (gear, skills, consumables, etc.) acquirable without ever doing PvP, and all of the best stuff for PvP acquirable without ever doing PvE.

Kwoung

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

So earlier I started a thread about wanting PVE versions of Cyrodiil and Imperial City but I think that's too much to ask for. Essentially I want to be able to do the available PVE content, quests, dolmens, skyshards, Antiquity leads, etc without having to worry about being killed by other players. I don't do PVP, at all. So what I propose is the option to log into a campaign as an independent or mercenary or whatever term suits you. The idea is that you would be allied with every alliance and would be locked out of PVP content like capturing keeps, using siege weapons, damaging keep walls, etc, and would only be able to do purely PVE content. I think this would please everyone as those like me who just want to play in those areas without getting ganked could do so and those who want to PVP could do so and I think this would be much easier to implement into the game than whole new PVE instances of each zone. Just test it out, make sure it works and there are no exploits, and then implement it. Everybody wins.

How about you just ask one of your guildmaster's to hold a Cyrodiil event, then get all the skyshards, leads, etc.. you need during the event. I do this for my guild every weekend and 90% of the players that participate are below level 20 and hated PVP, until they saw how stupid easy it is to earn millions of AP, collect all those skyshards, leads, the Alliance War skills needed for PVE, etc.. and we pretty much almost never even engage with other players. Most of them end the campaigns now with 4+ characters at reward tier 3, get tons of transmute stones, buy monster sets for AP instead of gold and have all the alliance skills they need to be effective in PVE.

And if you do die or wipe, so what, there isn't any consequence's for it. Whatever your fears are about PVP, you are thinking of some other game, unless you are just doing it wrong. Entering PVP solo is akin to trying to solo a Trial, it isn't how you do that content, and your chance of completing it, hovers somewhere around zero.

No need to make a PVE version of Cyrodiil or IC, learn the mechanics of how to complete it.

VaranisArano

Kwoung wrote: »

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

So earlier I started a thread about wanting PVE versions of Cyrodiil and Imperial City but I think that's too much to ask for. Essentially I want to be able to do the available PVE content, quests, dolmens, skyshards, Antiquity leads, etc without having to worry about being killed by other players. I don't do PVP, at all. So what I propose is the option to log into a campaign as an independent or mercenary or whatever term suits you. The idea is that you would be allied with every alliance and would be locked out of PVP content like capturing keeps, using siege weapons, damaging keep walls, etc, and would only be able to do purely PVE content. I think this would please everyone as those like me who just want to play in those areas without getting ganked could do so and those who want to PVP could do so and I think this would be much easier to implement into the game than whole new PVE instances of each zone. Just test it out, make sure it works and there are no exploits, and then implement it. Everybody wins.

How about you just ask one of your guildmaster's to hold a Cyrodiil event, then get all the skyshards, leads, etc.. you need during the event. I do this for my guild every weekend and 90% of the players that participate are below level 20 and hated PVP, until they saw how stupid easy it is to earn millions of AP, collect all those skyshards, leads, the Alliance War skills needed for PVE, etc.. and we pretty much almost never even engage with other players. Most of them end the campaigns now with 4+ characters at reward tier 3, get tons of transmute stones, buy monster sets for AP instead of gold and have all the alliance skills they need to be effective in PVE.

And if you do die or wipe, so what, there isn't any consequence's for it. Whatever your fears are about PVP, you are thinking of some other game, unless you are just doing it wrong. Entering PVP solo is akin to trying to solo a Trial, it isn't how you do that content, and your chance of completing it, hovers somewhere around zero.

No need to make a PVE version of Cyrodiil or IC, learn the mechanics of how to complete it.

Alternatively, as someone who did enter PVP solo back when I was a scared PVEer wanting my fish for Master Angler, you can go solo for the quests and rewards you want. Its not impossible.

Its just going to take a lot more persistence. And yeah, most things beside the fish would've been a lot easier in a group. So I recommend it, but I wouldn't say its impossible to go alone.

(And, to be entirely fair to a lot of players who first set foot in PVP during events, I wasn't going alone to get rewards in the middle of events when PvPvE zones are absolutely flooded with players out to get the rewards for killing other players. Events are the worst time to go to PvPvE for rewards if you want to avoid other players completely. I see so many players say "Its an event! PVPers should go easy on me!" LOL, no, it doesn't work like that, guys.)

Kwoung

VaranisArano wrote: »

Alternatively, as someone who did enter PVP solo back when I was a scared PVEer wanting my fish for Master Angler, you can go solo for the quests and rewards you want. Its not impossible.

That was me as well a year ago, the draw of Master Angler was greater than my fear of PVP, and I actually ended up fishing next to 2 guys from the other two factions in peace, we all got our fish and moved on. I also collected all the skyshards solo and took advantage of the gates being open to grab them, man I was nervous, apparently for little to no reason. Fast forward a few months, ended up joining a PVP guild and having a blast. That ended, but my wife and I now run the "PVP for Fun & Transmute Stone" events for our guild and it has become incredibly popular with almost full raid groups now.

So many had so much fun, we recently ended up starting a regular PVP event where we are geared/skilled up, looking for fights, taking keeps and doing actually PVP. We even ended up opening the back gates after defeating some defenders and grabbing the skyshards for everyone that needed, and ran the stolen scroll back to our territory... it was a blast!

KhajiitLivesMatter

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

So earlier I started a thread about wanting PVE versions of Cyrodiil and Imperial City but I think that's too much to ask for. Essentially I want to be able to do the available PVE content, quests, dolmens, skyshards, Antiquity leads, etc without having to worry about being killed by other players. I don't do PVP, at all. So what I propose is the option to log into a campaign as an independent or mercenary or whatever term suits you. The idea is that you would be allied with every alliance and would be locked out of PVP content like capturing keeps, using siege weapons, damaging keep walls, etc, and would only be able to do purely PVE content. I think this would please everyone as those like me who just want to play in those areas without getting ganked could do so and those who want to PVP could do so and I think this would be much easier to implement into the game than whole new PVE instances of each zone. Just test it out, make sure it works and there are no exploits, and then implement it. Everybody wins.

no cause u would still count to player cap while not doing pvp so that would hurt the pvp player if even more would do this

Grimlok_S

If anything, Mercenary status as suggested in previous threads would consider you(/your group) hostile against ALL 3 alliances, with no backup zerg to bail you out.

Also, for the 463rd time on this topic, no, you can't have a straight PvE IC. Telvar has value because there is risk involved in earning it.

That's what makes PvP fun.

Grimlok_S

Speaking of Mercenaries however, it's not uncommon for players like yourself to pay PvPers for protection, whether they be allied faction or otherwise..

VaranisArano

I hope you get your lead soon. Good luck!

Dunning_Kruger

BlackKnight556 wrote: »

You talk to an NPC or get the quest from a board. You travel to the area and kill the NPC enemies. You return to the quest giver and get your reward. NO other players are harmed in the experience. Doesn't sound much like PVP content to me because it ISN'T PVP content.

Sounds like there isn’t any PvP content to me. So why are you complaining just go do that then. Unless you mean you are finding enemy players in the towns or the quest areas killing you. Then it sounds like you casually avoided the PvP part of the content. It’s either there is no PvP and no issue; or you are experiencing PvP and it’s PvP related content.

ThePedge

It's a PvP zone, if you want to go there then be prepared for PvP.

There's already zero risk involved in PvP, dying loses you nothing, except for any telvar, however you earned it on the way so you could argue you're not losing telvar but simply not gaining any.

ZOS_Volpe

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