Deconstructing Jewelry needs to give PLATING, not grains.

El_Borracho

I get what some are saying in here with the devs specifically not wanting to make jewelry the same as crafting and improving gear. But to use that as a justification for the current system is silly.

Rosin or Dreugh Wax are probably the most popular gold mats for gear. There is a pretty decent chance you get one of these when you decon gold gear. You need 8 to improve an item if your passives are maxed. On average they sell at guild traders for 5K-6K, which means at the most it will cost you 48K to improve a staff or jerkin from purple to gold. And the purple mats? They seem to fall from the sky like rain when you decon gear.

Chromium plating is a different universe. First, you need 10 grains to make one plating. You need 8 platings to improve a ring/necklace from purple to gold. With the exception of some lunatic who just listed one for 15K, the next cheapest plating listed on TTC goes for 84K. Which means upgrading from purple to gold will run between 600-700K, or about 14X as expensive as upgrading a staff. And if you decon that gold ring, you aren't getting a plating, you're getting a grain. That means instead of being 7 more mats away from upgrading, you are 79 more mats away. And this is before recognizing that going from blue to purple is also quite expensive.

I'm not advocating for making jewelry the same as the other gear, but come on. This is insane. Even if you cut the mats in half, or made them twice as prevalent, they will still never be in the same category as rosins.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

El_Borracho wrote: »

I get what some are saying in here with the devs specifically not wanting to make jewelry the same as crafting and improving gear. But to use that as a justification for the current system is silly.

Rosin or Dreugh Wax are probably the most popular gold mats for gear. There is a pretty decent chance you get one of these when you decon gold gear. You need 8 to improve an item if your passives are maxed. On average they sell at guild traders for 5K-6K, which means at the most it will cost you 48K to improve a staff or jerkin from purple to gold. And the purple mats? They seem to fall from the sky like rain when you decon gear.

Chromium plating is a different universe. First, you need 10 grains to make one plating. You need 8 platings to improve a ring/necklace from purple to gold. With the exception of some lunatic who just listed one for 15K, the next cheapest plating listed on TTC goes for 84K. Which means upgrading from purple to gold will run between 600-700K, or about 14X as expensive as upgrading a staff. And if you decon that gold ring, you aren't getting a plating, you're getting a grain. That means instead of being 7 more mats away from upgrading, you are 79 more mats away. And this is before recognizing that going from blue to purple is also quite expensive.

I'm not advocating for making jewelry the same as the other gear, but come on. This is insane. Even if you cut the mats in half, or made them twice as prevalent, they will still never be in the same category as rosins.

It's only 4 plates with all the passives. Since the 8 for other crafts is also with max passives, it makes sense to compare apples to apples.

starkerealm

El_Borracho wrote: »

I get what some are saying in here with the devs specifically not wanting to make jewelry the same as crafting and improving gear. But to use that as a justification for the current system is silly.

It's not about justification, it's an explanation.

When jewelry crafting was added to the game, there was already an economy for gold jewelry in ESO.

Gold jewelry already existed, and had as early as Craglorn. Running trials had a chance of awarding gold rarity items, and gold jewelry was especially sought after because it was impossible to take a lower rarity piece and upgrade it.

Then they added The Golden, who sold gold rarity jewelry for 150k or 250k, depending on the piece. At the time, she was the only way to obtain gold jewelry for Dungeon sets (some dungeon sets had gold jewelry in trials earlier in the game's life, but that was gone by the time The Golden was added.)

So, before the release of Summerset, we had a system where gold jewelry represented a serious commitment. In the lead up to the release, people were wondering, "why would you even bother running vet trials now, if you can just upgrade your blue jewelry to gold?"

Here's ZOS's answer: Instead of treating jewelry like every other crafting line in the game, upgrading jewelry is disproportionately expensive, to the point that you're likely to continue farming rather than upgrade a piece of jewelry (whenever possible), and gold jewelry remains extraordinarily valuable.

This is on top of the part where gold jewelry offers almost no statistical benefit. (There are stat bumps for having gold pieces, but it's incredibly minor.) Upgrading your weapons to gold is the single most significant slot, after that armor is a distant second, gold jewelry is a tiny (finishing off the build for the last .5%) kind of situation.

It's not about justifying the system, that's irrelevant, however it does explain the decisions taken.

El_Borracho

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

I get what some are saying in here with the devs specifically not wanting to make jewelry the same as crafting and improving gear. But to use that as a justification for the current system is silly.

Rosin or Dreugh Wax are probably the most popular gold mats for gear. There is a pretty decent chance you get one of these when you decon gold gear. You need 8 to improve an item if your passives are maxed. On average they sell at guild traders for 5K-6K, which means at the most it will cost you 48K to improve a staff or jerkin from purple to gold. And the purple mats? They seem to fall from the sky like rain when you decon gear.

Chromium plating is a different universe. First, you need 10 grains to make one plating. You need 8 platings to improve a ring/necklace from purple to gold. With the exception of some lunatic who just listed one for 15K, the next cheapest plating listed on TTC goes for 84K. Which means upgrading from purple to gold will run between 600-700K, or about 14X as expensive as upgrading a staff. And if you decon that gold ring, you aren't getting a plating, you're getting a grain. That means instead of being 7 more mats away from upgrading, you are 79 more mats away. And this is before recognizing that going from blue to purple is also quite expensive.

I'm not advocating for making jewelry the same as the other gear, but come on. This is insane. Even if you cut the mats in half, or made them twice as prevalent, they will still never be in the same category as rosins.

It's only 4 plates with all the passives. Since the 8 for other crafts is also with max passives, it makes sense to compare apples to apples.

My bad, don't know why I thought it was 8. Makes it better, but still 300K per piece if you're buying mats. And don't get me wrong, I'm fine with the devs treating it differently. I think it jewelry should be treated differently. Since its basically a bridge between gear and weapons, its a nice piece to have if you have bad RNG and can't get what you want but can still run a 5 piece set. I think its crazy how its set up. The one grain for a decon, not guaranteed no less, is nuts. Doesn't need to be a plating (though that would be nice) but how about a few grains then.

And I'm not that far out of the camp that @starkerealm is in. I understand that the purple to gold jump for jewelry is negligible, but it is a jump. And its obviously one a lot of players want, given the prices for the mats. I really don't care about the game economy, but respect that it plays a vital role in the game. However, when we are talking about a gulf of 6K vs. 100K for an average price for a mat, that is both significant and ridiculous. Knocking that down 20K isn't going to crush the market.

In the end, we're talking about a luxury item. One that would be nice to have but not essential. I would prefer a change, but can go on living without it.

starkerealm

Yeah, I'm actually a little surprised that dust drop rates have never been significantly tweaked. (Or, at least, if they have, the community hasn't detected it.)

I've never been particularly dissatisfied with the drop rates, but, I'm also in a financially privileged position, in game.

trackdemon5512

Eliahnus wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Furthermore daily craft writs rarely or never dropped chromium grains.

Not at all. A level 50 jewelry crafter with all skill points invested has about a 30% chance of a chromium grain drop, with a high chance of a double drop, and a very small chance of a plating drop.
I do the jewelry writs daily on 10 characters - an investment of about 45 minutes - and I have at least 2 platings every week, and that's without counting the jewelry surveys which also return chromium grains when refining the jewelry dust.

Also, the difference between 3 purple and 3 gold jewels is really negligible, you do not really need them, even for "high-end" (what's in a name) players. So, I sell my platings for a nice profit.

Having said that, I have no problems that a decon of a gold jewel returns a plating instead of a grain.

I said used to. Originally refining raw mats was the best way to get chromium grains. This was overhauled in a later patch.

EvilAutoTech

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Furthermore daily craft writs rarely or never dropped chromium grains.

Not at all. A level 50 jewelry crafter with all skill points invested has about a 30% chance of a chromium grain drop, with a high chance of a double drop, and a very small chance of a plating drop.
I do the jewelry writs daily on 10 characters - an investment of about 45 minutes - and I have at least 2 platings every week, and that's without counting the jewelry surveys which also return chromium grains when refining the jewelry dust.

Also, the difference between 3 purple and 3 gold jewels is really negligible, you do not really need them, even for "high-end" (what's in a name) players. So, I sell my platings for a nice profit.

Having said that, I have no problems that a decon of a gold jewel returns a plating instead of a grain.

I said used to. Originally refining raw mats was the best way to get chromium grains. This was overhauled in a later patch.

And you are correct. It is way better now than it was at the launch of jewelry crafting.

I have not advocated for a change to anything except for what you get back when you decon jewelry. I think you should be guaranteed at least 1 grain with about a 95% chance that is what you get and an ever decreasing chance for more with a plating having a 0.01% chance.

I have been lucky enough to be able to put a golded out set of Torug's jewelry on my main. I retired a gold set of Ebon jewels when I created my Torug's.

I only got into this discussion because I felt that claiming a set of jewelry only required 12 gold upgrade mats was disingenuous. I have no problem with most of jewelry crafting as it is now. I think what you get from decon could use a little tweaking.

AbraKDabbler

I think EvilAutoTech is onto something.

My Thought: Deconstructing jewelry should give:

95%: 1 grain
2.5%: 2 grains
1.5%: 3 grains
0.9%: 4 grains
0.1%: 5 grains

Prof_Bawbag

santhoranb16_ESO wrote: »

The grains system is completely annoying as a whole and should be removed.
If they really really want to have gold platings expensive, then for sake go and do like 16 platings needed , but remove all grains and dont even annoy us with green, blue and purple grains. They arent rare to find (green, blue, purple jewelery) so its just an annoyance to the crafters as its far more time consuming to craft a purple jewelery then get a purple jewelery drop, which means there is something wrong.

I'm glad you think purple platings are fine. They're a pain too. Green and blue i agree with.

katorga

I think the point of grains and platings is to make gold jewelry appropriately expensive.

Tapio75

As a crafter, i do agree that the grain systenm is annoying and not getting platings from deconstruct is frutrating.

I see traders not thinking this is a good idea, because then their profit margin would drop considerably. I do say, that let the profits go down..

In any case, jewelry farming as such wwill stay for people do want the sets that drop and cant be crafted plus they still want stuff to deconstruct.

lillybit

A nice compromise would be if deconning worked the same as writs - a guaranteed grain with a chance for two and a slight chance of a whole plating. It wouldn't make too much of a difference for highter qualities but might increase the number of blues and greens enough to make blue writs worth doing

katorga

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

santhoranb16_ESO wrote: »

The grains system is completely annoying as a whole and should be removed.
If they really really want to have gold platings expensive, then for sake go and do like 16 platings needed , but remove all grains and dont even annoy us with green, blue and purple grains. They arent rare to find (green, blue, purple jewelery) so its just an annoyance to the crafters as its far more time consuming to craft a purple jewelery then get a purple jewelery drop, which means there is something wrong.

I'm glad you think purple platings are fine. They're a pain too. Green and blue i agree with.

Purple platings are the worst. I generate gold platings more frequently, so I always have a shortage of zirconium, or what ever it is called. Personally, I like it rare. I sell Chromium plating for 12x a druegh wax, but I don't accumulate druewax 12x faster than chromium platings. Very profitable.

I follow this approach...

Every toon has jewelcrafting maxed. The first saves intricate jewels for the next, and so on.

Every toon is parked at writ board in Mournhold, and does jewelry writ every day.

Any purple jewel loot that is bound or sells for less than 15K, I decon. I sell the ones over 15K.

This allows me to craft a gold set every 2-3 months. I sell any platings over 12/24 purple/gold, but I always keep enough in the sack to do one set of jewelry, just in case.

Orange_fire_dragon

I hear you but I think this was done in order to keep prices of jewelry items up, imagine if making gold jewelry was cheaper than buying them from Golden Vendor as example rendering that portion of weekly vendor and even midyear event items vendor useless, if it got as cheap as the other crafting styles to make purple quality, imagine all the overland jewelry that is worth something, Mother's Sorrow for example, they'd go dirt cheap overnight so why bother even try do dolmens etc for jewelry, answer is that you don't.

CaptainVenom

Not plating, but... yeah, grains should have a increased drop chance. 40 grains for a gold jewelry is kinda insane, given the rare drop rate.

Nordic__Knights

At release of game d-wax was 25k per now its 5k thats 1/5 the cost ,yet have we seen the ESO market fall out NO!!!!!!! its only has gotten stronger why because more players was willing to buy it at lower price ( pig farmer in DC ), temps was 25k now 5k again 1/5 of cost (banker glitch hit making temps widely available ) yet again did we see the ESO market fall out , NO it got stronger as more players found price acceptable to pay , you seeing something the market grows stronger the more price drops , whys this BECAUSE more players feel the price is worth their gold they put time and effort getting back into their builds , with gold jewelry being so high in price 80% of players wont upgrade to gold nor buy upgrade mats making ESO market feel it , since there is other ways of getting gold jewelry ( golden/leaderboards/trials) that cost way less then upgrading yourself
SO all this talk as to why we shouldnt get better drop rate or more back for de-con due to it hurting the ESO market needs to be seen as it is (BS)only reason an change hasnt happened that favors the player is that ZOS sees an way to hold us in their grind festival while being held back at the same time
with everything in mind i dont see why getting 1 of the 4 plating used back from de-con would hurt the ESO market as more players would become more using of the system because they'd feel like it was more in line with their means , being able to do 1set of jewelry every 2-3 months 6 years into an game that most have 5-16 toons to gear out is just bad all around
I wont get into master writs as we all know their JUNK meant to take what lil upgrade mats we get away for nothing in return
YES THERE HAS BEEN SOME IMPROVEMENTS MADE BUT ONLY IN THE WAY OF DOING WRITS ( forcing aults to be made aint an fix its an problem because then you have another toon to gear out making the extra mats they might bring in needed for them themselves not really extra at that point ) AND YOU MAY GET 1 OUT OF AN 100 MASTER WRITS WORTH DOING BUT AT WHAT COST , BLUE JEWELRY ON YOUR PLAYING TOON LMFAO !!!!!!!!!!!

Elvenheart

santhoranb16_ESO wrote: »

The grains system is completely annoying as a whole and should be removed.
If they really really want to have gold platings expensive, then for sake go and do like 16 platings needed , but remove all grains and dont even annoy us with green, blue and purple grains. They arent rare to find (green, blue, purple jewelery) so its just an annoyance to the crafters as its far more time consuming to craft a purple jewelery then get a purple jewelery drop, which means there is something wrong.

Agree...agree...agree <pushing the Agree button so hard it breaks my phone>

Faiza

TequilaFire wrote: »

This is not about decreasing the amount of plating to make jewelry, it is about getting at least one plating back on decon.

Yes this 100%

starkerealm

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

At release of game d-wax was 25k per now its 5k thats 1/5 the cost ,yet have we seen the ESO market fall out NO!!!!!!!

This is, extremely misleading (and also inaccurate.)

Back at launch, the mechanics to extract Dreugh Wax were not widely understood. While I'm not 100% certain of the 25k per Wax price point, that's possible (though not especially plausible for other reasons), given that players didn't know where they could reliably obtain it until a week or two after launch.

Very early on in the game's life cycle (for the first month or so) values in the overall economy was very different. ESO experienced significant inflation for the first few months of the game's lifespan. Something we don't see nearly as much today (or, at least, didn't until the introduction of the antiquities systems.) While it's technically possible that wax was selling at 25k per unit, I'd take those prices with a grain of salt.

Figure that the largest ticket items at the time ran in the 20-40k range, and yeah, the idea that each piece of wax was commanding that kind of price at launch is dubious. Now, PC players who migrated to consoles did bring their foreknowledge with them, and that seriously, and irrevocably, affected those economies, but wasn't a factor when ESO first launched.

Unless it's tanked in the last couple days, wax was sitting around 9-10k last I sold some. So, it's not 5k now.

Along the way, Wax has absolutely tanked in value a few times. The most infamous example was the Glenumbra Pig Farm incident a couple years back. That brought the price of wax below 4k for a long time, though it has recovered.

Obsidian3

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

You forget that almost all of the drops for jewelry need to be multiplied by 10. You do have a very slight chance at a plating from writs, otherwise a full set of jewelry costs 120 gold upgrade pieces.

My idea would be to guarantee a grain on decon with a small chance of more grains and a very, very low chance at a plating.

You may forget that initially it cost 4 purple platings and 8 gold platings to improve jewelry. Furthermore daily craft writs rarely or never dropped chromium grains. Lastly the first jewelry master writs rewarded a paltry amount compared to what they are now.

ZOS made a number of significant changes to the jewelry system after. Namely that more platings and grains drop from dailies, master writ values were significantly increased, and that dust could be procured from stone ore nodes.

Now why don’t gold platings drop from decon? Simply because those that can complete vet trials and are at the top of PvP leaderboards are the same individuals constantly. That means with deconning the ownership of the vast majority of gold platings in the game would over time surely skew towards them. Similarly purple platings would skew towards those who complete vet dungeons. And of course the value and worth of platings and these types of jewelry would again plummet.

As I’ve said, the system is fine as it is now. Players can make more characters and farm craft dailies, farm nodes, or earn through the 5 in-game methods.

I’ll also add that the reconstruction system will GREATLY increase the number of improvement mats available to players. Without a need to horde these players will now decon all non-essential PVE gear and those mats will flood the market. [/quote]

That's an excellent point. I never thought of it that way. The improvement is much better than the system was at launch.

I also understand the frustration. The 10 grain system, coupled with Jewelry nodes sharing space with Metal nodes and the horrible drop rate of Jewelry Crafting Surveys. It is super grindy. Now if we could get the drop rate of Jewelry surveys to match the Enchanting Survey drop rate we would be in a little better shape.

Nordic__Knights

starkerealm wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

At release of game d-wax was 25k per now its 5k thats 1/5 the cost ,yet have we seen the ESO market fall out NO!!!!!!!

This is, extremely misleading (and also inaccurate.)

Back at launch, the mechanics to extract Dreugh Wax were not widely understood. While I'm not 100% certain of the 25k per Wax price point, that's possible (though not especially plausible for other reasons), given that players didn't know where they could reliably obtain it until a week or two after launch.

Very early on in the game's life cycle (for the first month or so) values in the overall economy was very different. ESO experienced significant inflation for the first few months of the game's lifespan. Something we don't see nearly as much today (or, at least, didn't until the introduction of the antiquities systems.) While it's technically possible that wax was selling at 25k per unit, I'd take those prices with a grain of salt.

Figure that the largest ticket items at the time ran in the 20-40k range, and yeah, the idea that each piece of wax was commanding that kind of price at launch is dubious. Now, PC players who migrated to consoles did bring their foreknowledge with them, and that seriously, and irrevocably, affected those economies, but wasn't a factor when ESO first launched.

Unless it's tanked in the last couple days, wax was sitting around 9-10k last I sold some. So, it's not 5k now.

Along the way, Wax has absolutely tanked in value a few times. The most infamous example was the Glenumbra Pig Farm incident a couple years back. That brought the price of wax below 4k for a long time, though it has recovered.

go on to ps4 na wax is 2k i put 5k just as an showing of price today over price at start , and the DC pig farm hasnt been around now since 2016 and only reason it was fixed was it crashed an quest had it not ZOS would had never done away with it ZOS aint the ones wanting mats at XXX price tbh they can care less cost of things in-game only cost zos cares for is their out-put into game

thing is tho you tried to pick apart my post you never said anything on jewelry so that says to me your ok with system as is , but the system in play only helps bot farmers as they are the ones ok with low drops for others when they have XXX bots doing free pick up for them

tmbrinks

Obsidian3 wrote: »

I also understand the frustration. The 10 grain system, coupled with Jewelry nodes sharing space with Metal nodes and the horrible drop rate of Jewelry Crafting Surveys. It is super grindy. Now if we could get the drop rate of Jewelry surveys to match the Enchanting Survey drop rate we would be in a little better shape.

Agree with all your points... except the survey rate. They're the same. I have a link to my spreadsheet where I've track over 160,000 writs done and their drops. There is no statistical difference in the drop rates of surveys, jewelry or otherwise.

FangOfTheTwoMoons

Eliahnus wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Furthermore daily craft writs rarely or never dropped chromium grains.

Not at all. A level 50 jewelry crafter with all skill points invested has about a 30% chance of a chromium grain drop, with a high chance of a double drop, and a very small chance of a plating drop.
I do the jewelry writs daily on 10 characters - an investment of about 45 minutes - and I have at least 2 platings every week, and that's without counting the jewelry surveys which also return chromium grains when refining the jewelry dust.

Also, the difference between 3 purple and 3 gold jewels is really negligible, you do not really need them, even for "high-end" (what's in a name) players. So, I sell my platings for a nice profit.

Having said that, I have no problems that a decon of a gold jewel returns a plating instead of a grain.

10 characters with Maxed out jewelry crafting.

That's a huge investment.

itscompton

Nestor wrote: »

Jewelry, by its nature should be rare and more difficult to get. It is too difficult? Maybe the Platings are.

You can get a pretty good return of Grains running Alts through Tier 6 Crafting Writs for Jewelry, but it is a real grind or expensive to level these Alts.

The difference between Gold, Purple, and even Blue are depressingly small with Jewelry. The Set Bonuses are far more important in impactful on the stats of the character. Also, you can Gold the Enchants you apply to the Blue or Purple Rings so it is really a matter of Bonus Stats the Jewelry Tempers are improving.

So, maybe the Tempers are not so bad as they are, but it would be nice to get chance to get a full plating, maybe not a guarantee. Of course, the overall work, compared to now, to get a Gold or Purple plating should be tempered somewhat, forgive the pun, but it should not be an Easy Mode either.

If there is such a small difference in Gold v Purple then there should really be no reason to keep making it so expensive/time consuming to gather materials for upgrading.

deviousthevile

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, and/or if I am just lucky, but when refining, it seems like I get more Chromium Grains per 200 raw materials than I do of Rosin, Tempering Alloy or Dreugh Wax from the same ammount of raw materials for the corresponding crafts. It is no where near the same, as I do not get 10 grains per 200 dusts like I get roughly 1 Alloy/Rosin/Wax from 200 raw silk/ore/wood; but for me at least, it takes some of the sting out of needing 40 grains to upgrade 1 JC piece.

Now I understand that this subject is on decon material return, I am just trying to point out that it seems like some of the disappointment of the original post is slightly mitigated by what I'm saying.

Also, JC daily crafting writs can give more than 1 grain, and I have only seen this ONE time, but you CAN get a plating from daily writ turn in.

hackdrag0n

You don't need to gold your jewelry though. Purple is barely worse.

Wing

hackdrag0n wrote: »

You don't need to gold your jewelry though. Purple is barely worse.

that is an unacceptable answer to any grind in any game.

"the system is shite because you dont need it? excuse me?"

TwinLamps

I rarely agree with a statement this much.

LadySinflower

I would like to see the grains go away as well. Right now I am sitting on about 40 blue master jewelry crafting writs. I can't do any of them because I don't have the materials to upgrade. Then, I might go and farm some blue jewelry somewhere from a Dolmen. But let's say I get six pieces of blue jewelry and deconstruct them. I will probably get 3-4 blue grains back and that doesn't help me one bit. My pea brain isn't smart enough to try to calculate how many pieces of blue jewelry I would have to farm and decon to be able to do all of my writs. Why do we have to deal with grains in jewelry anyway? I just wish it was like the other crafting disciplines. I mean, when you refine ten pieces of rubedite, there is a chance that you might end up with ten refined rubedite ore, but more likely six or seven. If you refine ten chromium grains, you will probably end up with half of one plating. It's ridiculous, too grindy, and a huge waste of time.

Kwoung

Make upgrading all gear to gold as hard as jewelry and lets see how everyone reacts. Jewelry writs are a joke, I have destroyed thousands of them as there is no way to ever collect the amount of mats required to do the amount of them you get. The cost to craft a set of gold jewelry is now close to 2 million gold, how many players actually have that much gold to blow on a single set of jewelry? What if a set of weapons or armor also cost that as well? Want to have gold gear, get ready to drop 6+ million on one set.

Also, the stickerbook completely ignored jewelry, as no one in their right mind would ever decon a gold piece of jewelry if it even had the slightest chance of being useful in the future... as the decon return rate averages 1/80th of the cost to recreate it.

I do crafting writs on 10 characters with max jewelry skill, harvest all the time and still think the drop rate on upgrade mats is junk.