Deconstructing Jewelry needs to give PLATING, not grains.

NeillMcAttack

The best thing that could be done for the jewelry mats market would be to make jewelry crafting a part of the base game. The fact that not as many players have access to refine materials, de-con jewelry, is a pretty significant factor in the rarity of these mats.

Daemons_Bane

I disagree.. The jewelry crafting line was not meant to be as easy as the others.. Up the grain drop rate a bit, but that's it

fastolfv_ESO

give it 24 hours after changing this and the afk dolmen train would destroy the plating market for good, so nah thats a terrible idea

El_Borracho

As jewelry crafting is now beyond the "hey look, something new we want everyone to get excited about" stage, I could not agree with the OP more. Jewelry crafting and improvement is not just expensive, its punitive. Its costs around 500,000 to 800,000 to upgrade one piece from purple to gold. Unless you are a player who spends most of their time selling stuff for gold or farming mats (nothing wrong with that), its virtually impossible to do.

ElCapitanAmericano

I don't think there is anything wrong with the jewelry system we have now. Armor requires 8 gold upgrade items EACH. That's 56 upgrade items to gold out a full set of armor. Golding out a set of jewelry only requires 12. If anything, I think the amount of platings required to upgrade jewelry should be increased from 4 to 8. Maybe even to 10 to help balance it out with the armor requirements.

trackdemon5512

josiahva wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Absolutely not. Jewelry is fine as it is. Improvement is a luxury and gold jewelry is rare, coveted, and a testament to game playing excellence.

lol...what? I got my first piece of gold jewelry as an ultra-bad DPS back around VR7 in some vet trail. Considering that fact you have been able to outright BUY gold jewelry for a lot of sets from the Golden forever now...there is no real "game playing excellence" involved. Its not like gold jewelry is only available through HM trials or something and power creep is continually making any "excellence" that ever was completely obsolete, the older content continues to get more trivial, and instead of addressing the root of the problem, they just make marginally more difficult newer content to compensate.

The fact of the matter is that either gold jewelry needs to be MORE accesible...or alternatively there needs to be a bigger gap between purple and gold jewelry.

@josiahva

In game gold jewelry drops are available either as 1) Vet Trial Drops, 2) Arena Weekly Leaderboards, 3) Battleground Weekly Leaderboards, 4) Cyrodiil Top Score Leaderboards, and 5) The Golden.

The Golden requires that a player either spend a not insignificant amount of either gold or Alliance Points to get a single necklace or a ring.

4 of the Gold Jewelry sources above ask players to reach for the top. The 5th allows players to procure sets that otherwise do not drop gold jewelry in the game provided a significant sacrifice of gold/AP/time AND that what is offered is completely random (The Golden release schedule is not fixed).

Jewelry improvement allows one to bypass all of these checks at any time to gold ANY set but requires that one invest time/gold in farming mats so that they can do so. It’s a fair trade off.

Set power levels between purple and gold are fine now.

TequilaFire

This is not about decreasing the amount of plating to make jewelry, it is about getting at least one plating back on decon.

preevious

I agree with @trackdemon5512

Jewels temper were purposely made extremely expensive/hard to get so as to not lower the value gained by high-end players with their gold jewels drops.

It absolutely must stay this way. Platings have to be rare as hell.

kirgeo

This was debated crazily during release. ZOS doesn't care they made a paid feature grindier than the base game one.

TequilaFire

One lousing plating from decon is not going to destroy you scalper's economy.

EvilAutoTech

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

I don't think there is anything wrong with the jewelry system we have now. Armor requires 8 gold upgrade items EACH. That's 56 upgrade items to gold out a full set of armor. Golding out a set of jewelry only requires 12. If anything, I think the amount of platings required to upgrade jewelry should be increased from 4 to 8. Maybe even to 10 to help balance it out with the armor requirements.

You forget that almost all of the drops for jewelry need to be multiplied by 10. You do have a very slight chance at a plating from writs, otherwise a full set of jewelry costs 120 gold upgrade pieces.

My idea would be to guarantee a grain on decon with a small chance of more grains and a very, very low chance at a plating.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I agree that the grains concept makes for an excessive grind, and I do believe it should be toned down. I disagree that removing them wouldnt wildly effect the market, because it absolutely would. If people had a 50/50 shot at a plating from refining a gold piece of jewelry, the prices would fall hard. Plenty of easy way to farm random gold jewelry.


A middle ground approach might be to increase the drops to plating for any piece of gear you upgrade. So if you make the piece gold, and it turns out you dont want any more, than yes, you would get a plating, maybe a guaranteed plating by deconstructing it. That would seem pretty reasonable to me. But if you farm something like VHRCHM, not sure each of the gold pieces of jewelry should drop a plating, and if it did, you would probably need to increase the requirements beyond the 4 you currently need per piece.

starkerealm

Jeremy wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

you already made jewelry annoying by including the grains mechanic in the first place, a system whos only inclusion is to simply make the grind longer, period.

compared to EVERY OTHER CRAFT that shares the same improvement path and requirements.

but then when you deconstruct gold jewelry, you don't even get a a chance of getting one of the plating's you put in it back, you get a chance at getting 1/10th of 1 of the plating's back.

i would love for the grains mechanic to just go away, as its nothing but additional grind, but ill settle atm for getting some of my plating's back.

@ZOS_RichLambert

It would definitely bring it more in line with the other crafts and make jewelry writs more reasonable to do too.

you mean those writs that even the writ mods removed the "are you sure you want to destroy this?" prompt for them because they are trash and nobody does them?

I didn't know that. That's funny. haha

I forgot. I marked them as junk and mass deleted them. That bypasses the destruction confirmation pop up as well.

josiahva

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I agree that the grains concept makes for an excessive grind, and I do believe it should be toned down. I disagree that removing them wouldnt wildly effect the market, because it absolutely would. If people had a 50/50 shot at a plating from refining a gold piece of jewelry, the prices would fall hard. Plenty of easy way to farm random gold jewelry.


A middle ground approach might be to increase the drops to plating for any piece of gear you upgrade. So if you make the piece gold, and it turns out you dont want any more, than yes, you would get a plating, maybe a guaranteed plating by deconstructing it. That would seem pretty reasonable to me. But if you farm something like VHRCHM, not sure each of the gold pieces of jewelry should drop a plating, and if it did, you would probably need to increase the requirements beyond the 4 you currently need per piece.

And here is the problem....you think that its worth protecting the market price. Why exactly? Why do platings have to be 100k? Why do you think the difference between purple and gold is really worth 400k gold? Why is jewelry special? But armor is junk? No, to be FAIR, ALL of your equipment, regardless of type should cost the same amount to upgrade from purple to gold.

I mean, I understand...people have chromium platings in guild traders and want to get the most out of them...they have a (psuedo) monetary investment....but upgrading a piece of metal armor or metal weapon costs 64k. This is a REASONABLE cost for a gold upgrade....so you have 9 possible metal upgrades and only 3 possible jewelry upgrades...ok, in that case you should triple the cost of jewelry to 190k...or roughly HALF of what it actually costs...so to bring it inline, they need to either cut the plating cost in half, or multiply the grains returned by 5.

The point is jewelry is way out of line...there is zero reason for it to receive special treatment as opposed to other gear.

trackdemon5512

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

I don't think there is anything wrong with the jewelry system we have now. Armor requires 8 gold upgrade items EACH. That's 56 upgrade items to gold out a full set of armor. Golding out a set of jewelry only requires 12. If anything, I think the amount of platings required to upgrade jewelry should be increased from 4 to 8. Maybe even to 10 to help balance it out with the armor requirements.

You forget that almost all of the drops for jewelry need to be multiplied by 10. You do have a very slight chance at a plating from writs, otherwise a full set of jewelry costs 120 gold upgrade pieces.

My idea would be to guarantee a grain on decon with a small chance of more grains and a very, very low chance at a plating.

You may forget that initially it cost 4 purple platings and 8 gold platings to improve jewelry. Furthermore daily craft writs rarely or never dropped chromium grains. Lastly the first jewelry master writs rewarded a paltry amount compared to what they are now.

ZOS made a number of significant changes to the jewelry system after. Namely that more platings and grains drop from dailies, master writ values were significantly increased, and that dust could be procured from stone ore nodes.

Now why don’t gold platings drop from decon? Simply because those that can complete vet trials and are at the top of PvP leaderboards are the same individuals constantly. That means with deconning the ownership of the vast majority of gold platings in the game would over time surely skew towards them. Similarly purple platings would skew towards those who complete vet dungeons. And of course the value and worth of platings and these types of jewelry would again plummet.

As I’ve said, the system is fine as it is now. Players can make more characters and farm craft dailies, farm nodes, or earn through the 5 in-game methods.

I’ll also add that the reconstruction system will GREATLY increase the number of improvement mats available to players. Without a need to horde these players will now decon all non-essential PVE gear and those mats will flood the market.

MirandaSharp

I'm a maxed out crafter on all crafting skills and I NEVER upgrade blue jewelry! It's ridiculous what it costs and the upgrade does next to nothing! I can if I want to, but what's the point?

TequilaFire

It is actually cheaper to buy gold jewelry than it is to craft it from scratch.
Crafted sets get the shaft.

Kartalin

If not a plating then maybe a small chance to get a plating rather than a grain. Perhaps a guaranteed grain with a maybe 5% chance for a plating?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

josiahva wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I agree that the grains concept makes for an excessive grind, and I do believe it should be toned down. I disagree that removing them wouldnt wildly effect the market, because it absolutely would. If people had a 50/50 shot at a plating from refining a gold piece of jewelry, the prices would fall hard. Plenty of easy way to farm random gold jewelry.


A middle ground approach might be to increase the drops to plating for any piece of gear you upgrade. So if you make the piece gold, and it turns out you dont want any more, than yes, you would get a plating, maybe a guaranteed plating by deconstructing it. That would seem pretty reasonable to me. But if you farm something like VHRCHM, not sure each of the gold pieces of jewelry should drop a plating, and if it did, you would probably need to increase the requirements beyond the 4 you currently need per piece.

And here is the problem....you think that its worth protecting the market price. Why exactly? Why do platings have to be 100k? Why do you think the difference between purple and gold is really worth 400k gold? Why is jewelry special? But armor is junk? No, to be FAIR, ALL of your equipment, regardless of type should cost the same amount to upgrade from purple to gold.

I mean, I understand...people have chromium platings in guild traders and want to get the most out of them...they have a (psuedo) monetary investment....but upgrading a piece of metal armor or metal weapon costs 64k. This is a REASONABLE cost for a gold upgrade....so you have 9 possible metal upgrades and only 3 possible jewelry upgrades...ok, in that case you should triple the cost of jewelry to 190k...or roughly HALF of what it actually costs...so to bring it inline, they need to either cut the plating cost in half, or multiply the grains returned by 5.

The point is jewelry is way out of line...there is zero reason for it to receive special treatment as opposed to other gear.

Where did I say that? I simply pointed out that it would affect the market price (OP suggested it would not). I made no comments as to whether that would be good or bad. Please direct your rage elsewhere. I am worth 9 figures in ESO. I honestly couldnt care less about the market price of chromium or anything else, but I assure a lot of people do. I proposed a middle ground solution, because well, that is where experience has taught me that the answer usually lies.

Vlad9425

I kinda get what they were going for with the grains system but yeah I agree that you should get platings for decon of Jewellery. Or at least if they don’t give us that for all Jewellery make it so that Jewellery which we have crafted ourselves will give us platings back.

Raideen

ZOS has to inflate the reason players are online one way or another. Low drop rates is one of these ways. Not saying I agree with it because too low a drop makes me quit and find something else to do, the opposite of their intended goal.

barney2525

It is really annoying that I have over 1000 green in Every other crafting type, and I have 40 green on jewelry - And I DON'T upgrade my jewelry when I craft it. I use white because I want to save it solely for level 50 gear since it is so rare.

richo262

josiahva wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I agree that the grains concept makes for an excessive grind, and I do believe it should be toned down. I disagree that removing them wouldnt wildly effect the market, because it absolutely would. If people had a 50/50 shot at a plating from refining a gold piece of jewelry, the prices would fall hard. Plenty of easy way to farm random gold jewelry.


A middle ground approach might be to increase the drops to plating for any piece of gear you upgrade. So if you make the piece gold, and it turns out you dont want any more, than yes, you would get a plating, maybe a guaranteed plating by deconstructing it. That would seem pretty reasonable to me. But if you farm something like VHRCHM, not sure each of the gold pieces of jewelry should drop a plating, and if it did, you would probably need to increase the requirements beyond the 4 you currently need per piece.

And here is the problem....you think that its worth protecting the market price. Why exactly? Why do platings have to be 100k? Why do you think the difference between purple and gold is really worth 400k gold? Why is jewelry special? But armor is junk? No, to be FAIR, ALL of your equipment, regardless of type should cost the same amount to upgrade from purple to gold.

I mean, I understand...people have chromium platings in guild traders and want to get the most out of them...they have a (psuedo) monetary investment....but upgrading a piece of metal armor or metal weapon costs 64k. This is a REASONABLE cost for a gold upgrade....so you have 9 possible metal upgrades and only 3 possible jewelry upgrades...ok, in that case you should triple the cost of jewelry to 190k...or roughly HALF of what it actually costs...so to bring it inline, they need to either cut the plating cost in half, or multiply the grains returned by 5.

The point is jewelry is way out of line...there is zero reason for it to receive special treatment as opposed to other gear.

It's not so much about protecting a market but rather having vet content worth doing, master writs worth doing. There are many factors at play.

Why do you think all items should be treated equally? Many players don't bother to gold their armor until last and focus on weapons because you get far more benefit from that, should we nerf weapon damage and increase the trait bonus further in this push for 'item equality'?

Your choices are, spend 400k on plating to get Gold jewels, or run veteran content, or wait for the gold vendor. Jewelry is exclusive, and requires more work than others, it is intrinsically linked to the end game content.

If there was to be anything done, I'd say scrap 'Undaunted Treasure' and have Gold rings have a 25 - 100% chance of returning a full gold plate depending on their rarity, ie vet crag trials everybody gets a ring therefore 25% on VO/IA/AY etc rings but vSS not everybody gets a ring so 100% chance.

barney2525

richo262 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I agree that the grains concept makes for an excessive grind, and I do believe it should be toned down. I disagree that removing them wouldnt wildly effect the market, because it absolutely would. If people had a 50/50 shot at a plating from refining a gold piece of jewelry, the prices would fall hard. Plenty of easy way to farm random gold jewelry.


A middle ground approach might be to increase the drops to plating for any piece of gear you upgrade. So if you make the piece gold, and it turns out you dont want any more, than yes, you would get a plating, maybe a guaranteed plating by deconstructing it. That would seem pretty reasonable to me. But if you farm something like VHRCHM, not sure each of the gold pieces of jewelry should drop a plating, and if it did, you would probably need to increase the requirements beyond the 4 you currently need per piece.

And here is the problem....you think that its worth protecting the market price. Why exactly? Why do platings have to be 100k? Why do you think the difference between purple and gold is really worth 400k gold? Why is jewelry special? But armor is junk? No, to be FAIR, ALL of your equipment, regardless of type should cost the same amount to upgrade from purple to gold.

I mean, I understand...people have chromium platings in guild traders and want to get the most out of them...they have a (psuedo) monetary investment....but upgrading a piece of metal armor or metal weapon costs 64k. This is a REASONABLE cost for a gold upgrade....so you have 9 possible metal upgrades and only 3 possible jewelry upgrades...ok, in that case you should triple the cost of jewelry to 190k...or roughly HALF of what it actually costs...so to bring it inline, they need to either cut the plating cost in half, or multiply the grains returned by 5.

The point is jewelry is way out of line...there is zero reason for it to receive special treatment as opposed to other gear.

It's not so much about protecting a market but rather having vet content worth doing, master writs worth doing. There are many factors at play.

Why do you think all items should be treated equally? Many players don't bother to gold their armor until last and focus on weapons because you get far more benefit from that, should we nerf weapon damage and increase the trait bonus further in this push for 'item equality'?

Your choices are, spend 400k on plating to get Gold jewels, or run veteran content, or wait for the gold vendor. Jewelry is exclusive, and requires more work than others, it is intrinsically linked to the end game content.

If there was to be anything done, I'd say scrap 'Undaunted Treasure' and have Gold rings have a 25 - 100% chance of returning a full gold plate depending on their rarity, ie vet crag trials everybody gets a ring therefore 25% on VO/IA/AY etc rings but vSS not everybody gets a ring so 100% chance.

I missed the " in my opinion " on your post. I don't agree with it at all.

Jewelry is equally as valuable as all other gear pieces. No more, no less. When they made it craftable, they leveled the playing field. Maybe, time was you had to go find your jewelry because it could not be crafted. But that time is past.

Jewelry is not 'intrinsically end game content'. I create sub 50 sets of jewelry all the time.

Gotta change with the times.

IMHO

Eliahnus

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Furthermore daily craft writs rarely or never dropped chromium grains.

Not at all. A level 50 jewelry crafter with all skill points invested has about a 30% chance of a chromium grain drop, with a high chance of a double drop, and a very small chance of a plating drop.
I do the jewelry writs daily on 10 characters - an investment of about 45 minutes - and I have at least 2 platings every week, and that's without counting the jewelry surveys which also return chromium grains when refining the jewelry dust.

Also, the difference between 3 purple and 3 gold jewels is really negligible, you do not really need them, even for "high-end" (what's in a name) players. So, I sell my platings for a nice profit.

Having said that, I have no problems that a decon of a gold jewel returns a plating instead of a grain.

Mike0987

I have about 50 jewelry master writs I can't and wont complete, started just destroying them since they are worthless. I usually get 1-3 a day which means the only way I can complete even 1 of them is to farm mats for 2 days to even get enough iridium grains (20)! for what? 25-30 vouchers? Surely this is an on going joke at ZOS!

PrimusNephilim

Agreed, the mats are ridicules to farm (unless you're a bot), I don't even do jewelry writs because it depletes what little I have accumulated and its cheaper to purchase gold jewelry than to make it yourself. ZOS wanted it to be a grindfest but it turned into a train wreck and they wont come clean about it. I find jewelry crafting one of the biggest disappointments of this game.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

barney2525 wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I agree that the grains concept makes for an excessive grind, and I do believe it should be toned down. I disagree that removing them wouldnt wildly effect the market, because it absolutely would. If people had a 50/50 shot at a plating from refining a gold piece of jewelry, the prices would fall hard. Plenty of easy way to farm random gold jewelry.


A middle ground approach might be to increase the drops to plating for any piece of gear you upgrade. So if you make the piece gold, and it turns out you dont want any more, than yes, you would get a plating, maybe a guaranteed plating by deconstructing it. That would seem pretty reasonable to me. But if you farm something like VHRCHM, not sure each of the gold pieces of jewelry should drop a plating, and if it did, you would probably need to increase the requirements beyond the 4 you currently need per piece.

And here is the problem....you think that its worth protecting the market price. Why exactly? Why do platings have to be 100k? Why do you think the difference between purple and gold is really worth 400k gold? Why is jewelry special? But armor is junk? No, to be FAIR, ALL of your equipment, regardless of type should cost the same amount to upgrade from purple to gold.

I mean, I understand...people have chromium platings in guild traders and want to get the most out of them...they have a (psuedo) monetary investment....but upgrading a piece of metal armor or metal weapon costs 64k. This is a REASONABLE cost for a gold upgrade....so you have 9 possible metal upgrades and only 3 possible jewelry upgrades...ok, in that case you should triple the cost of jewelry to 190k...or roughly HALF of what it actually costs...so to bring it inline, they need to either cut the plating cost in half, or multiply the grains returned by 5.

The point is jewelry is way out of line...there is zero reason for it to receive special treatment as opposed to other gear.

It's not so much about protecting a market but rather having vet content worth doing, master writs worth doing. There are many factors at play.

Why do you think all items should be treated equally? Many players don't bother to gold their armor until last and focus on weapons because you get far more benefit from that, should we nerf weapon damage and increase the trait bonus further in this push for 'item equality'?

Your choices are, spend 400k on plating to get Gold jewels, or run veteran content, or wait for the gold vendor. Jewelry is exclusive, and requires more work than others, it is intrinsically linked to the end game content.

If there was to be anything done, I'd say scrap 'Undaunted Treasure' and have Gold rings have a 25 - 100% chance of returning a full gold plate depending on their rarity, ie vet crag trials everybody gets a ring therefore 25% on VO/IA/AY etc rings but vSS not everybody gets a ring so 100% chance.

I missed the " in my opinion " on your post. I don't agree with it at all.

Jewelry is equally as valuable as all other gear pieces. No more, no less. When they made it craftable, they leveled the playing field. Maybe, time was you had to go find your jewelry because it could not be crafted. But that time is past.

Jewelry is not 'intrinsically end game content'. I create sub 50 sets of jewelry all the time.

Gotta change with the times.

IMHO

Um, but they specifically didnt level the playing field (kinda why OP is posting this), and presumably, it was because Gold Jewelry in their minds is linked to end game content.

xaraan

I think there should be a chance to at least get a plating back from decon. To get chance of 1/10th of what you need for one piece of upgrade mat is a bit much. Either that, or it should guarantee a grain drop with every decon.

I like that they made jewelry drops still worthwhile by making jewelry crafting harder, but parts of it are just broken value wise. The master writs even after buffing are still a waste to do 99% of the time. Some items, like lower quality jewelry, is better as vendor trash than deconning b/c you get more gold from that than the value of buying one grain of whatever you get.

In the end, it's pretty badly balanced and not at all polished and feel like they just said 'good enough'.

Shantu

I can just hear the official ZOS response to this in my mind... "Heh"