Werewolf needs to be addressed.

Cronopoly

MentalxHammer wrote: »

It's actually painfully easy to build max res 40k hp WW's that are gushing damage

I'd likely need to re-allocate my extra 10K health as I';m at 51K in cyrodiil atm into Damage and sustain lol.

ccfeeling

WW build without ww form, they are nothing, u have to understand this.

Thevampirenight

Making it only last 20 seconds no way to extend it? What's the point in having werewolves then?
What they can do is make them vulnerable to prismatic enchantments and maybe give an added weakness, say fire for example as a weakness. They should keep them the way they are but they should make it so they do have more weaknesses. Maybe make them take 450% more damage from the Dawnguard Crossbow ability. looking at the 2791 damage number taken from uesp, you take that and you times that number by 450% you get 12559.5 per hit. That would balance it out, 50k health just need to hit them a few times with fire magic and most importantly silver and then its no longer as much of an issue. So having Silver Bolts do that amount of damage plus an enchant that does what the prismatic enchant does ontop of it should make them a lot more vulnerable to being killed and it would not be as much of an issue.
Since its using Silver Bolts and Silver is the iconic werewolf weakness and this ability does use that type of bolt going by its description. Thus Silver should be the most effective weakness against them. Hence the much higher damage number. A fire weakness would also hinder them but still make the skilline viable it makes sense you would need some type of silver or fire to kill a werewolf.

So gist of what they could do.
1. Buff on the Silverbolts Crossbow ability that does way more damage to werewolves.
2. Add in a unique silver enchant that does what Primsatic does or add werewolves to Prismatic.
3.Make fire an added werewolf weakness just as it is for vampires.
Now what this would do is make it so they have vulnerabilities they cannot just ignore.
The issue isn't the timer, the timer is fine what is the issue is not enough vulnerabilities.

What they can also do is add in that ability cost weakness remove that from the vampire does not make sense there and add in a based ability cost increase say like 5/10% for abilties werewolves in humanoid form and make these weaknesses apply to them as well. Why because werewolves can be restless or don't sleep as good. Going by that is how they did it in Skyrim. They could not receive resting bonuses. Being restless and not sleeping as great would obviously make you not as alert. Not as alert means your not as effective. Still can sleep and get sleep just you don't have as much energy. Unless your in your beast form. So an ability cost increase weakness would make sense for a lycanthrope to have.

MentalxHammer

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Making it only last 20 seconds no way to extend it? What's the point in having werewolves then?
What they can do is make them vulnerable to prismatic enchantments and maybe give an added weakness, say fire for example as a weakness. They should keep them the way they are but they should make it so they do have more weaknesses. Maybe make them take 450% more damage from the Dawnguard Crossbow ability. looking at the 2791 damage number taken from uesp, you take that and you times that number by 450% you get 12559.5 per hit. That would balance it out, 50k health just need to hit them a few times with fire magic and most importantly silver and then its no longer as much of an issue. So having Silver Bolts do that amount of damage plus an enchant that does what the prismatic enchant does ontop of it should make them a lot more vulnerable to being killed and it would not be as much of an issue.
Since its using Silver Bolts and Silver is the iconic werewolf weakness and this ability does use that type of bolt going by its description. Thus Silver should be the most effective weakness against them. Hence the much higher damage number. A fire weakness would also hinder them but still make the skilline viable it makes sense you would need some type of silver or fire to kill a werewolf.

So gist of what they could do.
1. Buff on the Silverbolts Crossbow ability that does way more damage to werewolves.
2. Add in a unique silver enchant that does what Primsatic does or add werewolves to Prismatic.
3.Make fire an added werewolf weakness just as it is for vampires.
Now what this would do is make it so they have vulnerabilities they cannot just ignore.
The issue isn't the timer, the timer is fine what is the issue is not enough vulnerabilities.

What they can also do is add in that ability cost weakness remove that from the vampire does not make sense there and add in a based ability cost increase say like 5/10% for abilties werewolves in humanoid form and make these weaknesses apply to them as well. Why because werewolves can be restless or don't sleep as good. Going by that is how they did it in Skyrim. They could not receive resting bonuses. Being restless and not sleeping as great would obviously make you not as alert. Not as alert means your not as effective. Still can sleep and get sleep just you don't have as much energy. Unless your in your beast form. So an ability cost increase weakness would make sense for a lycanthrope to have.

I agree with you that 20 seconds in WW wouldnt feel right, and I dont think it should be standardized in this way. Right now it's on the opposite end of the spectrum and can be kept up indefinitely, which is a little oppressive. Hopefully a happy medium can be reached.

MentalxHammer

ccfeeling wrote: »

WW build without ww form, they are nothing, u have to understand this.

Luckily for them it's easy to stay in werewolf permanently!

Thevampirenight

MentalxHammer wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

WW build without ww form, they are nothing, u have to understand this.

Luckily for them it's easy to stay in werewolf permanently!

To stay in form requires you to feed, without those passives it makes it difficult to keep up the form. I'm strongly against removing those. Its not the time that it lasts that is the issue. Frankly I would like to see it last longer timer suspended when not in direct combat.
Werewolf is finally getting meta love and people want to see it destroyed again. No no and no no no no no. Its a curse its not like blood scion its not like the bone goliath.
An entire skill set is locked behind the ultimate and taking away the ability to keep it up. No nope and no. Lycanthropy is a big thing and yes its powerful its a bestial transformation that makes you far stronger then your typical humaniod form.
I rather they keep its strong but give it more weaknesses that can overcome its strengths. That is the key and once they do that then it won't be as much of an issue. I can see the werewolf being fine without the Increases your Spell and Physical Resistance by 10000 buff.

They don't need to have that one, They can reduce that to be only like say 2500 making it more like a racial passive in terms of strength. That can be something they could do there. But destroying the skill line because some build 50k health builds and use broken proc sets shouldn't be something done to the skill line.

If they can do that with the werewolf form then they can easily do that outside of it. Plus be much more deadly and broken. Though maybe not as strong but still just as much of a problem as a lycanthrope would be.

Recapitated

@Thevampirenight I don't want the counter to WWs to be "slot some niche ability". Fire being the counter to vamps (forget the Greymoor changes) is functional because half the specs in the game carry an inferno staff and two of them have fire as a class theme. There is no poison weapon type and only one spec that really leans into it, and even then it amounts to less than a majority of stamdk's damage. DBOS is the only werewolf counter that doesn't punish you for slotting it against non-WWs (if you play stam).

As a general rule, the counter to {highly versatile spec} (werewolf) can't be {very niche spec} (werewolf hunter).

On paper there's balance, but because {very niche spec} fails 1v1 most of the time and gets mowed down XvX before it's able to do its job, people won't run it. {highly versatile spec} will be countered in theory but not in practice.

I agree that WW uptime doesn't need to be reduced, it's not meant to enable turnaround like Goliath and Vamp ults. If WW form is balanced there is no need to change the uptime, and if uptime is addressed 20 seconds of god mode is still on the long side. I think temporary transformation ults are going to be tough to get right honestly, Goliath largely crutches on gimmicky sets.

Fennwitty

Forgive my PvP inexperience, but not that long ago wasn't Werewolf generally uncommon in PvP? At least Cyro.

When a werewolf popped up people focused it down as a priority target then went about their business.

So isn't the problem that they're now building too tough and are able to get away with it (just like other 40k tank builds) because of proc sets?

Chrlynsch

Recapitated wrote: »

@Thevampirenight I don't want the counter to WWs to be "slot some niche ability". Fire being the counter to vamps (forget the Greymoor changes) is functional because half the specs in the game carry an inferno staff and two of them have fire as a class theme. There is no poison weapon type and only one spec that really leans into it, and even then it amounts to less than a majority of stamdk's damage. DBOS is the only werewolf counter that doesn't punish you for slotting it against non-WWs (if you play stam).

As a general rule, the counter to {highly versatile spec} (werewolf) can't be {very niche spec} (werewolf hunter).

On paper there's balance, but because {very niche spec} fails 1v1 most of the time and gets mowed down XvX before it's able to do its job, people won't run it. {highly versatile spec} will be countered in theory but not in practice.

I agree that WW uptime doesn't need to be reduced, it's not meant to enable turnaround like Goliath and Vamp ults. If WW form is balanced there is no need to change the uptime, and if uptime is addressed 20 seconds of god mode is still on the long side. I think temporary transformation ults are going to be tough to get right honestly, Goliath largely crutches on gimmicky sets.

Bow has poison damage abilities, all of the meta stamina proc sets are poison damage, necro, and stam dk have access poison damage, stamn toons have good access to fighters guild abilities, two handed Ultimate is extremely effective against werewolf, as well as double dot poison.

Recapitated

Fennwitty wrote: »

Forgive my PvP inexperience, but not that long ago wasn't Werewolf generally uncommon in PvP? At least Cyro.

When a werewolf popped up people focused it down as a priority target then went about their business.

So isn't the problem that they're now building too tough and are able to get away with it (just like other 40k tank builds) because of proc sets?

I asked this upthread, and the answer is apparently yes and no. Tl;dr:

Health-based heals make proc sets easy to exploit, proc sets make health-based heals easy to exploit, and then there's Malacath which I don't know what to think of. But the first two are potentially or actually problematic on their own. The way I think about it is Malacath, current damage proc design, and health-based heals are all dangerous or outright bad design, but they feed off each other so that if one or two of those are present and ZOS makes the mistake of adding another, things get exponentially worse.

Even if proc sets are tuned down you can apparently get plenty of damage on a WW tank right now, and IMO you'll probably still be able to overload abilities with damage proc sets even if health-based heals are addressed or health stacking is discouraged (by making procs scale off offensive stats for instance).

BXR_Lonestar

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

Are WWs the problem, or are they just uniquely good at wearing broken sets?

Stamsorc is in the same situation, one of the best specs for (ab)using broken sets. Nerfing stamsorc would make no sense though because their toolkit is already rather lacking.

WW's are a problem, 30% movement speed, 8% max HP, 10k resistances, 18% weapon damage that can be kept up with 100% uptime, that is objectively broken. Here are some other facts, since my OP was written hastily.

The WW burst heal Hircines Rage provides major berserk when casted at full health. I urge anyone reading this to examine the other sources of major berserk https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs. They are few and far between, WW has access to this on a skill that can be spammed, major berserk increases the damage of proc sets as well, compounding the issue.

Let's examine their damage spammable, Howl of Agony. Comparing the tooltips of Howl of Agony to standardized spammables, it can be observed that the base damage of HoA is 29% higher than the standard spammable; additionally, this skill deals 25% more damage to targets that are facing you or feared. Assuming this % bonus is additive with other % bonus', DR's will be experienced and the buff will likely be closer to ~20%; in this case this spammable will be doing 55% more damage than common spammables. This is objectively broken.

There is a laundry list of other objectively broken issues with the WW ultimate.

I've not experienced what you were talking about so perhaps this is just coming from ignorance, but tbh, it seems like the way to counter werewolves, especially if your defending the keep, is to simply stay inside the keep structures and attack them with siege until they're back in human form. Werewolves give up a long of strength to get the strength they have when they are in Werewolf form (I know this because I'm leveling one up - but not for PVP). So the idea is you are weaker in human form, but stronger in wolf form. But the Wolf form has limitations and one of those is lack of a strong ranged attack.

So perhaps the people getting farmed outside of the keep were simply just not smart enough to hide behind their walls long enough to allow the wolf forms to end, and then engage after. Seems like a pretty reasonable way to handle them to me?

Vevvev

Recapitated wrote: »

Thevampirenight I don't want the counter to WWs to be "slot some niche ability". Fire being the counter to vamps (forget the Greymoor changes) is functional because half the specs in the game carry an inferno staff and two of them have fire as a class theme. There is no poison weapon type and only one spec that really leans into it, and even then it amounts to less than a majority of stamdk's damage. DBOS is the only werewolf counter that doesn't punish you for slotting it against non-WWs (if you play stam).

There is a poison damage ability that everyone seems to hate that is a morph of Snipe called Lethal Arrow. In fact bow has quite a lot of poison damage on it and every stam build can pick one up and use it.

But I will agree with you on one thing, bow is the only weapon skill line with poison damage worked into its abilities. For dual wield and 2-handed weapons to get access to the poison damage type you must either slot a poison damage glyph or equip a poison onto the weapon, which as we all know overwrites the enchantment... Obviously this isn't the most viable thing for someone going 1-hand and shield/2-handed for instance or any other combo of weapons that isn't using bow.

Recapitated

Vevvev wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

Thevampirenight I don't want the counter to WWs to be "slot some niche ability". Fire being the counter to vamps (forget the Greymoor changes) is functional because half the specs in the game carry an inferno staff and two of them have fire as a class theme. There is no poison weapon type and only one spec that really leans into it, and even then it amounts to less than a majority of stamdk's damage. DBOS is the only werewolf counter that doesn't punish you for slotting it against non-WWs (if you play stam).

There is a poison damage ability that everyone seems to hate that is a morph of Snipe called Lethal Arrow. In fact bow has quite a lot of poison damage on it and every stam build can pick one up and use it.

But I will agree with you on one thing, bow is the only weapon skill line with poison damage worked into its abilities. For dual wield and 2-handed weapons to get access to the poison damage type you must either slot a poison damage glyph or equip a poison onto the weapon, which as we all know overwrites the enchantment... Obviously this isn't the most viable thing for someone going 1-hand and shield/2-handed for instance or any other combo of weapons that isn't using bow.

I don't think we have a deep disagreement. Yes, anyone can pick up a bow. Anyone can pick up almost anything. But it's always going to be a matter of degree and opportunity costs.

If vamps were uniquely powerful in a vacuum, they'd still be facing a meta where, with or without vamps, the first choice for almost every mag build is their counter: inferno staves, not to mention the legions already choosing to run flame abilities, DBOS, leap etc. Opportunity cost = zero for all of these; when you introduce vamps to that meta the question is just whether you preference some more fire damage abilities, glyphs etc. to respond to vamps specifically.

Slotting bows is a significant departure from being to perform in the current meta OTOH for many builds, which is what I assume you mean when you're referring to 2h/dw builds. And bow LAs are physical as far as I know.

More generally when this forum discusses the counters to a given pvp spec I'd just like to see fewer people heading to eso-skillbook.com and ctrl+F-ing "poison" without asking about the versatility of those skills in other contexts, i.e. opportunity costs.

MentalxHammer

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

Are WWs the problem, or are they just uniquely good at wearing broken sets?

Stamsorc is in the same situation, one of the best specs for (ab)using broken sets. Nerfing stamsorc would make no sense though because their toolkit is already rather lacking.

WW's are a problem, 30% movement speed, 8% max HP, 10k resistances, 18% weapon damage that can be kept up with 100% uptime, that is objectively broken. Here are some other facts, since my OP was written hastily.

The WW burst heal Hircines Rage provides major berserk when casted at full health. I urge anyone reading this to examine the other sources of major berserk https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs. They are few and far between, WW has access to this on a skill that can be spammed, major berserk increases the damage of proc sets as well, compounding the issue.

Let's examine their damage spammable, Howl of Agony. Comparing the tooltips of Howl of Agony to standardized spammables, it can be observed that the base damage of HoA is 29% higher than the standard spammable; additionally, this skill deals 25% more damage to targets that are facing you or feared. Assuming this % bonus is additive with other % bonus', DR's will be experienced and the buff will likely be closer to ~20%; in this case this spammable will be doing 55% more damage than common spammables. This is objectively broken.

There is a laundry list of other objectively broken issues with the WW ultimate.

I've not experienced what you were talking about so perhaps this is just coming from ignorance, but tbh, it seems like the way to counter werewolves, especially if your defending the keep, is to simply stay inside the keep structures and attack them with siege until they're back in human form. Werewolves give up a long of strength to get the strength they have when they are in Werewolf form (I know this because I'm leveling one up - but not for PVP). So the idea is you are weaker in human form, but stronger in wolf form. But the Wolf form has limitations and one of those is lack of a strong ranged attack.

So perhaps the people getting farmed outside of the keep were simply just not smart enough to hide behind their walls long enough to allow the wolf forms to end, and then engage after. Seems like a pretty reasonable way to handle them to me?

Yeah, I refused to be farmed by them so I just stood on the wall and ate pizza. Regarding the feeding, its easy for them to go feed at a resource (lumber/mine/farm), not take it, wait the 5 minutes for the guards to respawn and boom, free WW food.

regime211

MentalxHammer wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous, the IC is just groups of 40k hp werewolves. Werewolf is a blatant carry, nothing in this game comes close to how overpowered this is. Other ultimate transformations have ~20 seconds uptime, WW can be kept up indefinitely, this leads to individuals ONLY playing in werewolf form, [snip]

I think the recent steps towards balance have been in the right direction, but this needs to be addressed desperately. It is ruining the PvP experience for

[Edited to remove Baiting]

You should be able to stay in WW form if you're dealing damage, and it was needed for a buff because it was seriously lacking a few patches ago.

regime211

DocFrost72 wrote: »

40k hp werewolves aren't dealing damage, their proc sets are. Nerf crimson and alessian, and werewolves won't be near the issue they are.

Sad part is you truly believe that crimson and alessian are the issue, just wait until someone comes out with something even more disgusting.

regime211

Qbiken wrote: »

The WW burst heal Hircines Rage provides major berserk when casted at full health. I urge anyone reading this to examine the other sources of major berserk https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs. They are few and far between, WW has access to this on a skill that can be spammed, major berserk increases the damage of proc sets as well, compounding the issue.

Literally no one uses this *** morph in PvP.

And the only thing that needs to be addressed with werewolf is the HP based heal. Rework it to scale of weapon damage and max stamina fixes the majority of unbalances with werewolf. The rest of the toolkit is fine.

No

regime211

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Werewolf time extending perks need to be removed so people that reply purely on this crutch to tank and spank like vamp lord can get kited for 20 seconds then go back to doing no damage.

Changing this like another said would end up giving werewolf a disgusting buff, and potentially more sets to buff it even further so be careful what you wish for.

Hexvaldr

They buffed we with wolf hunter and then nerfed it after into uselessness. It is not as overpowered now that it was finally buffed again, but when you combine it with proc sets and battle spirit it is pretty hard to fight them if you are not in a bigger or organized group. But people will make troll builds no matter what, and these plus the proc sets seem to be where most people's frustrations lie.

That being said, please don't ruin ww for pve players, it's at the most balanced without being op that it's been in years.

WreckfulAbandon

I wouldn't expect WW to get weaker next patch, since the 5-6k health recovery wolves will only be getting defiled 16% with Major Defile. I have run into some WW in both Cyro and IC that definitely seemed to be burst proof by any one player, and they still had decent damage. Don't even get me started on Imperial Physique builds

Kory

Praise Papa Hircine. The weaklings are trembling.
In all seriousness, Werewolf form has a heal ability that scales off of max heal. So many werewolf builds are going to boost their health of course....
Proc sets that do damage and add to tankiness are a thing for any and all to take advantage of, it's not exclusive to Werewolf players.

notyuu

for the other transformation ults to be up indefintly they would also have to come with the same restriction of being locked into the same 5 powers with out access to any other skills or weapon passives.

Tommy_The_Gun

I disagree with OP.

Let me explain why:

One day, I have been talking to my friend (who is also a game dev) and he basically told me this: "Multiplicity is the worst enemy of the balance." Funny thing is that also some time ago I have been watching Day9 on youtube and in one of his vidos (dont remember which one), he said something similar. That multyplying things is the worst enemy of game balance. I mean... just think about it.

Lets say we have a weapon or armor or skill or anything. Lets also assune that this certain "thing" is niche. Not so good, but not so bad either, but it is not "meta".
Now, just multiply it by certain amount (more than one person using this). Is it still bad ?

Is ESO, lets say we have some old set (like viper sting). It gives you dot damage. Nothing crazy. Is it good on itself ? Probably not. It is kinda weak and maybe will surpress some portion of health recovery if you get hit by it.
Ok, now lets say you get hit not by one, but 5 or 7 ppl using this set... you see where am I going ?

Other example is destro ultimate. Ok-ish ultimate, but nothing crazy. But lets say we have 5 - 7 ppl using it at once in a ball group. If you dont react in a split second - you will probably melt.

Now, I have been also watching Isth3reno1else videos he made in terms WW in IC and I agree with him to some degree. But the thing I agree with the most is the part in which he basically says that WW is super hard to play solo and is underperforming, but as soon as you are in a group - it is way easier & stronger.

Also he encoraged ppl to play ww solo so they would see for themselves. And yeah, I would encorage ppl to do so also. Go solo in Cyro or IC (no group, no zerg-surfing) as a WW. If you succeed you will have my congratulations.

And the key word here is imho - "group enviroment". Because in group you dont have to worry about healing & sustain.

So tldr:
Is WW op ? Nope definetly not.
Is WW a problem ? Nope.
Is Group enviroment a problem ? Yes.

Group enviroment alters a lot. Stuff works differently in a group vs solo play. WW is just one of many things that is affected by that.

Now the question is: How do you make something slighly stronger solo without making it much stronger in a group ? You cant. It is imposible. That is why we have this continous cycle of nerfs & buffs. When you have this big amount of content and type of content as ESO has (overland, pvp, pve, arenas, trials, dungeons, sets, skills, classes etc). balancing stuff is probably a nightmare.

So, untill devs figure out how to balance different enviroments (group / solo) without making stuff useless or to strong - we will have this cycle of nerf/buffs that players generally dislike and made a lot of ppl quit the game.

If I were to give some feedback to the devs I would suggest adding some global buff/debuff system (something like battle spirit in Cyro) to the groups and make it scale with size of the group.

Recapitated

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Group enviroment alters a lot. Stuff works differently in a group vs solo play. WW is just one of many things that is affected by that.

It can't be just be the group environment that carries those WW groups or you'd be seeing the same thing with just about every spec. To take an extreme example, nobody's organizing roving gangs of stamplars.

Or for an example even more relevant to your quote, the person you're talking about said it took 4 sDKs with poison proc sets to take him down on his WW just higher up in this thread.

Some of this has to be inherent to WW. They might be hard to play solo but it looks like at the very least they scale much better than other specs.

Reverb

Defile and cc are the counter to a Werewolf. Coordinated defile and stuns are the counter to a coordinated werewolf group.

It’s really no different than facing down ball groups, when confronted with a coordinated enemy you have to be equally coordinated. You can’t just keep throwing yourself at them and get frustrated when you watch them farm pugs for hours.

FrankonPC

DocFrost72 wrote: »

40k hp werewolves aren't dealing damage, their proc sets are. Nerf crimson and alessian, and werewolves won't be near the issue they are.

yes they are

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ttJ0uM2m8w&t=393s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kK5CSkGkNg&t=182s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1grcllBcU&t=132s

No Crimson, no alessian, no proc dmg sets. 38k health werewolf. Nothing wrong with werewolves doing damage, it's the health scaled heal that's the issue. Provide less incentive for stacking health and in turn make werewolves killable and you will see less zergs of them.

FrankonPC

Also,

As has been pointed out to me, Werewolf functions as a sub-class, not an ultimate. They have their own passives, unlike vampire form or collossus, etc. By game design, you inherit werewolf skills by becoming one.

The duration will not be an issue if the other adjustments get fixed. Picture the werewolf as a class without use of an ultimate and balance it accordingly. It's its own niche, which is cool! Don't make it like everything else, but make it more balanced.

Vevvev

Tommy_The_Gun is onto something there and amazingly werewolf is balanced to be played in a group thanks to the Call of the Pack passive. Even the Berserker morph can last an incredibly long time when with a group of transformed werewolves.

That being said I still stick to what I said before. If I can kill werewolves just fine on my MagDK without the aid of poison you all should be able to. To counter werewolves and groups in general you hit them with Negates, Defile, and Stuns. And of course poison if you have it.

Also negate turns off werewolf's heal so getting someone to hit them with it and locking them in a stun can be quite effective.

Joinovikova

FrankonPC wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

40k hp werewolves aren't dealing damage, their proc sets are. Nerf crimson and alessian, and werewolves won't be near the issue they are.

yes they are

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ttJ0uM2m8w&t=393s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kK5CSkGkNg&t=182s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1grcllBcU&t=132s

No Crimson, no alessian, no proc dmg sets. 38k health werewolf. Nothing wrong with werewolves doing damage, it's the health scaled heal that's the issue. Provide less incentive for stacking health and in turn make werewolves killable and you will see less zergs of them.

I see the biggest problem in the heal.. WTF 10k non crit 15k+ crit heal ... generally healt scaled heals must be nerfed massively in pvp but still WTF 15k crit heal ?

TequilaFire

Same old story call for nerfs instead of learning counter play.