Stamina templar pvp state

wheem_ESO

Firstmep wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

While wearing 5x heavy armor in a no-CP Battleground recently, I ate a total of 20,518 damage from 3 GCD's worth of Biting Jabs (not counting any light attacks or Burning Light procs). That's literally >= 2x the damage that I would have taken from a Magicka build spamming Force Pulse. Even Whip nowadays probably wouldn't be reaching that amount (especially on any target that isn't a Stage 4 Vampire, which almost no one is anymore).

If ZOS addresses some of the Stamina Templar "pain points" and/or guts proc sets without doing something about Jabs damage, things may very well end up right back where they were a few patches ago, where the class is a dime a dozen in BGs, and their 1 button spam is scarier than pretty much everyone else's burst combo.

I'm completely fine with making adjustments that will help the class out with the various problems that it's facing (like self healing and whatnot), but Jabs damage also needs to come down. There's simply no good argument for having a spammable, especially one which snares targets and isn't even very expensive, to do damage that's rivaling - or even sometimes exceeding - that of ultimates.

I regularly hit squishy targets for 6-7k suprise attack crits, and thats instant cast.
Heavy armor alone doesn't make you tanky anymore.
Jabs can be avoided by simply using you movement keys, also run a snare immunity skill if thats such a big problem for you.
Honestly tired of bad players dying to jabs, when its one of the most avoidable skills in the game.

Lets try a hypothetical; if Zenimax was proposing changing Biting Jabs into a Stamina-based copy of Force Pulse, would you be upset? Not only would you be getting a ranged ability, which many posters seem to think is a super duper important thing, you would also no longer be "forced" to use "one of the most avoidable skills in the game." The only downside(s) are that it can be dodged, doesn't snare, and does a lot less damage (though would still be more than the Magicka version, thanks to itemization).

If Jabs were really as bad as some people try to make it out to be, switching it for something like Force Pulse would be a no-brainer. But in reality, it would shift the class away from the current position of having astoundingly powerful offense, and put them down in Magicka Necromancer territory. You know, where you have a trash spammable alongside an unreliable burst ability (though PotL should be be more reliable against those without a cleanse).

Stamina Templar has issues, and I think a lot of people - myself included - would be totally fine with buffing the class in some areas, but that Jabs damage needs to be looked at. If Jabs/Sweeps were really as avoidable as some people make them out to be, we never would have seen the giant explosion of Stamina Templar that happened a few patches ago, and most/all current Templar players would have switched to a different spammable by now.

Husan wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

If ZOS addresses some of the Stamina Templar "pain points" and/or guts proc sets without doing something about Jabs damage, things may very well end up right back where they were a few patches ago, where the class is a dime a dozen in BGs, and their 1 button spam is scarier than pretty much everyone else's burst combo.

I'm afraid that's exactly what is going to happen. They are going to do something that will make us viable again and then after people start complaining nerf us to an even lower point we are at now. Remember what happened to eclipse. Was strong for a patch which made templar a really good contender for PvP, and was promptly nerfed to a skill that is a waste of a GCD and magicka.

That's why I keep saying we need to do it the other way around. Nerf jabs, then have a realistic look at the toolkit and you'll see just how bad it is. Maybe then we can get some actual buffs that stay. NERF JABS TO MAKE TEMPLAR GREAT AGAIN!!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549108/nerf-jabs-to-make-templar-great-again-warning-sarcasm-inside

I'm not sure just how deep the sarcasm goes, but in all honesty it probably would be a good idea to suggest some downward adjustment to Jabs/Sweeps alongside various other improvements. If a bunch of said improvements were implemented while the class was still able to push so much damage by only spamming a single button, you'd certainly be playing chicken with the nerf bat. Nobody wants their main class to be a 1 patch wonder.

Udrath

@wheem_ESO

I’m a firm believer stamplar has a forgiving rotation for a reason, mainly cause it’s a class you have to really pay attention too what’s going on. You don’t have any get out of jail free cards like other classes. Yeah the other classes rotations are more intensive, but that’s a nice part about playing a stamplar — potl, jabs, stun/ultimate, execute.

High WD Medium Armor stamplar is a rewarding class to pvp if you can over look the spammable. It’s kinda like surprise attack but jabs has an annoying sound and everyone hates it lol

Stamplar has a healing cleanse and easy rotation.
Stamblade has Cloak and shade
Stam Dk has corrosive Armor and resource return
Stam sorc has streak

Stamden and stamcro have everything lol

Drdeath20

Nobody wants there to be a class that only spams 1 skill but before any nerfs happen to jabs, there needs to be other and stronger damage skills in the stamplars toolkit to use.

techyeshic

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

While wearing 5x heavy armor in a no-CP Battleground recently, I ate a total of 20,518 damage from 3 GCD's worth of Biting Jabs (not counting any light attacks or Burning Light procs). That's literally >= 2x the damage that I would have taken from a Magicka build spamming Force Pulse. Even Whip nowadays probably wouldn't be reaching that amount (especially on any target that isn't a Stage 4 Vampire, which almost no one is anymore).

If ZOS addresses some of the Stamina Templar "pain points" and/or guts proc sets without doing something about Jabs damage, things may very well end up right back where they were a few patches ago, where the class is a dime a dozen in BGs, and their 1 button spam is scarier than pretty much everyone else's burst combo.

I'm completely fine with making adjustments that will help the class out with the various problems that it's facing (like self healing and whatnot), but Jabs damage also needs to come down. There's simply no good argument for having a spammable, especially one which snares targets and isn't even very expensive, to do damage that's rivaling - or even sometimes exceeding - that of ultimates.

I regularly hit squishy targets for 6-7k suprise attack crits, and thats instant cast.
Heavy armor alone doesn't make you tanky anymore.
Jabs can be avoided by simply using you movement keys, also run a snare immunity skill if thats such a big problem for you.
Honestly tired of bad players dying to jabs, when its one of the most avoidable skills in the game.

Lets try a hypothetical; if Zenimax was proposing changing Biting Jabs into a Stamina-based copy of Force Pulse, would you be upset? Not only would you be getting a ranged ability, which many posters seem to think is a super duper important thing, you would also no longer be "forced" to use "one of the most avoidable skills in the game." The only downside(s) are that it can be dodged, doesn't snare, and does a lot less damage (though would still be more than the Magicka version, thanks to itemization).

If Jabs were really as bad as some people try to make it out to be, switching it for something like Force Pulse would be a no-brainer. But in reality, it would shift the class away from the current position of having astoundingly powerful offense, and put them down in Magicka Necromancer territory. You know, where you have a trash spammable alongside an unreliable burst ability (though PotL should be be more reliable against those without a cleanse).

Stamina Templar has issues, and I think a lot of people - myself included - would be totally fine with buffing the class in some areas, but that Jabs damage needs to be looked at. If Jabs/Sweeps were really as avoidable as some people make them out to be, we never would have seen the giant explosion of Stamina Templar that happened a few patches ago, and most/all current Templar players would have switched to a different spammable by now.

Husan wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

If ZOS addresses some of the Stamina Templar "pain points" and/or guts proc sets without doing something about Jabs damage, things may very well end up right back where they were a few patches ago, where the class is a dime a dozen in BGs, and their 1 button spam is scarier than pretty much everyone else's burst combo.

I'm afraid that's exactly what is going to happen. They are going to do something that will make us viable again and then after people start complaining nerf us to an even lower point we are at now. Remember what happened to eclipse. Was strong for a patch which made templar a really good contender for PvP, and was promptly nerfed to a skill that is a waste of a GCD and magicka.

That's why I keep saying we need to do it the other way around. Nerf jabs, then have a realistic look at the toolkit and you'll see just how bad it is. Maybe then we can get some actual buffs that stay. NERF JABS TO MAKE TEMPLAR GREAT AGAIN!!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549108/nerf-jabs-to-make-templar-great-again-warning-sarcasm-inside

I'm not sure just how deep the sarcasm goes, but in all honesty it probably would be a good idea to suggest some downward adjustment to Jabs/Sweeps alongside various other improvements. If a bunch of said improvements were implemented while the class was still able to push so much damage by only spamming a single button, you'd certainly be playing chicken with the nerf bat. Nobody wants their main class to be a 1 patch wonder.

Why are you comparing a magicka ranged spammable to a stam melee? Jabs literally is the same difference in channel time to damage as dizzy swing. Actually, think it was before they moved the channel to be longer to match the animation. Burning light proc put it over the top, but with current requirements, anyone with a pulse that moves can nullify burning light. Evasion also still is a thing as well albeit weaker soon.

Nobody wants a ranged spammable on their melee character. Just ask stamina Warden, DK, and Necro if they use theirs over dizzy. Especially when magsorc and NB are the only ones with kiting power/kit to make it work

I do agree though; that Templar is too jab focused. Its just not that strong, hence where we are at

Grimlok_S

As a Stamplar I find Jabs either feels like a noodle or a chainsaw. We definitely benefit a ton from PEN stats and that has a lot to do with how your damage will feel, coupled with the fact Jabs is double mitigated by not only Armor value but Evasion as well.

For me, it feels consistent until you come up against major evasion, that's almost always noodle territory. It's also incredibly easy to body block the damage, since we self-snare ourselves while casting. If you're putting pressure into a target and they move behind another ally, your damage falls off big time, since only the closest target takes full damage.

IIRC Evasion is being tweaked in the coming patch, as are Armour and Pen values. Going to give it some time to test and reassess.

Waffennacht

Ugh at stamplar; simply ugh

Firstmep

techyeshic wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

While wearing 5x heavy armor in a no-CP Battleground recently, I ate a total of 20,518 damage from 3 GCD's worth of Biting Jabs (not counting any light attacks or Burning Light procs). That's literally >= 2x the damage that I would have taken from a Magicka build spamming Force Pulse. Even Whip nowadays probably wouldn't be reaching that amount (especially on any target that isn't a Stage 4 Vampire, which almost no one is anymore).

If ZOS addresses some of the Stamina Templar "pain points" and/or guts proc sets without doing something about Jabs damage, things may very well end up right back where they were a few patches ago, where the class is a dime a dozen in BGs, and their 1 button spam is scarier than pretty much everyone else's burst combo.

I'm completely fine with making adjustments that will help the class out with the various problems that it's facing (like self healing and whatnot), but Jabs damage also needs to come down. There's simply no good argument for having a spammable, especially one which snares targets and isn't even very expensive, to do damage that's rivaling - or even sometimes exceeding - that of ultimates.

I regularly hit squishy targets for 6-7k suprise attack crits, and thats instant cast.
Heavy armor alone doesn't make you tanky anymore.
Jabs can be avoided by simply using you movement keys, also run a snare immunity skill if thats such a big problem for you.
Honestly tired of bad players dying to jabs, when its one of the most avoidable skills in the game.

Lets try a hypothetical; if Zenimax was proposing changing Biting Jabs into a Stamina-based copy of Force Pulse, would you be upset? Not only would you be getting a ranged ability, which many posters seem to think is a super duper important thing, you would also no longer be "forced" to use "one of the most avoidable skills in the game." The only downside(s) are that it can be dodged, doesn't snare, and does a lot less damage (though would still be more than the Magicka version, thanks to itemization).

If Jabs were really as bad as some people try to make it out to be, switching it for something like Force Pulse would be a no-brainer. But in reality, it would shift the class away from the current position of having astoundingly powerful offense, and put them down in Magicka Necromancer territory. You know, where you have a trash spammable alongside an unreliable burst ability (though PotL should be be more reliable against those without a cleanse).

Stamina Templar has issues, and I think a lot of people - myself included - would be totally fine with buffing the class in some areas, but that Jabs damage needs to be looked at. If Jabs/Sweeps were really as avoidable as some people make them out to be, we never would have seen the giant explosion of Stamina Templar that happened a few patches ago, and most/all current Templar players would have switched to a different spammable by now.

Husan wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

If ZOS addresses some of the Stamina Templar "pain points" and/or guts proc sets without doing something about Jabs damage, things may very well end up right back where they were a few patches ago, where the class is a dime a dozen in BGs, and their 1 button spam is scarier than pretty much everyone else's burst combo.

I'm afraid that's exactly what is going to happen. They are going to do something that will make us viable again and then after people start complaining nerf us to an even lower point we are at now. Remember what happened to eclipse. Was strong for a patch which made templar a really good contender for PvP, and was promptly nerfed to a skill that is a waste of a GCD and magicka.

That's why I keep saying we need to do it the other way around. Nerf jabs, then have a realistic look at the toolkit and you'll see just how bad it is. Maybe then we can get some actual buffs that stay. NERF JABS TO MAKE TEMPLAR GREAT AGAIN!!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549108/nerf-jabs-to-make-templar-great-again-warning-sarcasm-inside

I'm not sure just how deep the sarcasm goes, but in all honesty it probably would be a good idea to suggest some downward adjustment to Jabs/Sweeps alongside various other improvements. If a bunch of said improvements were implemented while the class was still able to push so much damage by only spamming a single button, you'd certainly be playing chicken with the nerf bat. Nobody wants their main class to be a 1 patch wonder.

Why are you comparing a magicka ranged spammable to a stam melee? Jabs literally is the same difference in channel time to damage as dizzy swing. Actually, think it was before they moved the channel to be longer to match the animation. Burning light proc put it over the top, but with current requirements, anyone with a pulse that moves can nullify burning light. Evasion also still is a thing as well albeit weaker soon.

Nobody wants a ranged spammable on their melee character. Just ask stamina Warden, DK, and Necro if they use theirs over dizzy. Especially when magsorc and NB are the only ones with kiting power/kit to make it work

I do agree though; that Templar is too jab focused. Its just not that strong, hence where we are at

But... But.. Coach.. Jabs.. Much.. Tooltip.. Must. Be. Op. Skill.

Joy_Division

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

While wearing 5x heavy armor in a no-CP Battleground recently, I ate a total of 20,518 damage from 3 GCD's worth of Biting Jabs (not counting any light attacks or Burning Light procs). That's literally >= 2x the damage that I would have taken from a Magicka build spamming Force Pulse. Even Whip nowadays probably wouldn't be reaching that amount (especially on any target that isn't a Stage 4 Vampire, which almost no one is anymore).

If ZOS addresses some of the Stamina Templar "pain points" and/or guts proc sets without doing something about Jabs damage, things may very well end up right back where they were a few patches ago, where the class is a dime a dozen in BGs, and their 1 button spam is scarier than pretty much everyone else's burst combo.

I'm completely fine with making adjustments that will help the class out with the various problems that it's facing (like self healing and whatnot), but Jabs damage also needs to come down. There's simply no good argument for having a spammable, especially one which snares targets and isn't even very expensive, to do damage that's rivaling - or even sometimes exceeding - that of ultimates.

I regularly hit squishy targets for 6-7k suprise attack crits, and thats instant cast.
Heavy armor alone doesn't make you tanky anymore.
Jabs can be avoided by simply using you movement keys, also run a snare immunity skill if thats such a big problem for you.
Honestly tired of bad players dying to jabs, when its one of the most avoidable skills in the game.

Lets try a hypothetical; if Zenimax was proposing changing Biting Jabs into a Stamina-based copy of Force Pulse, would you be upset? Not only would you be getting a ranged ability, which many posters seem to think is a super duper important thing, you would also no longer be "forced" to use "one of the most avoidable skills in the game." The only downside(s) are that it can be dodged, doesn't snare, and does a lot less damage (though would still be more than the Magicka version, thanks to itemization).

If Jabs were really as bad as some people try to make it out to be, switching it for something like Force Pulse would be a no-brainer. But in reality, it would shift the class away from the current position of having astoundingly powerful offense, and put them down in Magicka Necromancer territory. You know, where you have a trash spammable alongside an unreliable burst ability (though PotL should be be more reliable against those without a cleanse).

Stamina Templar has issues, and I think a lot of people - myself included - would be totally fine with buffing the class in some areas, but that Jabs damage needs to be looked at. If Jabs/Sweeps were really as avoidable as some people make them out to be, we never would have seen the giant explosion of Stamina Templar that happened a few patches ago, and most/all current Templar players would have switched to a different spammable by now.

Husan wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

If ZOS addresses some of the Stamina Templar "pain points" and/or guts proc sets without doing something about Jabs damage, things may very well end up right back where they were a few patches ago, where the class is a dime a dozen in BGs, and their 1 button spam is scarier than pretty much everyone else's burst combo.

I'm afraid that's exactly what is going to happen. They are going to do something that will make us viable again and then after people start complaining nerf us to an even lower point we are at now. Remember what happened to eclipse. Was strong for a patch which made templar a really good contender for PvP, and was promptly nerfed to a skill that is a waste of a GCD and magicka.

That's why I keep saying we need to do it the other way around. Nerf jabs, then have a realistic look at the toolkit and you'll see just how bad it is. Maybe then we can get some actual buffs that stay. NERF JABS TO MAKE TEMPLAR GREAT AGAIN!!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/549108/nerf-jabs-to-make-templar-great-again-warning-sarcasm-inside

I'm not sure just how deep the sarcasm goes, but in all honesty it probably would be a good idea to suggest some downward adjustment to Jabs/Sweeps alongside various other improvements. If a bunch of said improvements were implemented while the class was still able to push so much damage by only spamming a single button, you'd certainly be playing chicken with the nerf bat. Nobody wants their main class to be a 1 patch wonder.

Force pulse / Crushing shock sucks. No player in their right mind would accept a trade. Every Stamplar would run dizzy. The skill you should compare jabs to is Surprise attack. Because that's actually a good skill.

And the answer to that question would be "it depends." Am I fighting someone not very skilled? Jabs all day every day. Am I fighting someone good? I'd take Surprise attack.

I don't know what Stamplars out there think range is super duper. Range in ESO is meh because generally it's pretty easy to be mobile and melee anything that's not streaking or shading.

The Templars on the forum who know what they are doing and saying don't say Jabs in "bad." They use words like awkward, clunky, slow. Jabs in this game is the equivalent of the fantasy trope of the huge two-handed overhand chop power attack; it's slow and hits like a truck. It's very good vs immobile targets and people who just aren;t very experienced, but clunky and slow is absolutely an inconsistent performer, and that inconsistency is most noticeable when you need to play your best.

Stamplars outstandingly powerful offense? Against a target dummy maybe? The word that needs to be in there is "potentially" and what makes jabs frustrating is that more often that potential comes down not to the player using the skill, but rather the the opponent.

When Templars "explode" in PvP, that perception is mainly due to the fact that the majority of the times when people encounter that class it;s as a heal bot, a diehard, or someone who doesn't know what they are doing. But what prompts this has little to do with jabs; if it was half as great as you seem to imply here then Cyrodiil would always be full of Stamplars and Magplars that aren't heal bots. Who wouldn;t want to play a class that has a outstandingly powerful offense? I know I would. All the time. ZoS's (old) changes to rune focus, ritual, Eclipse, Toppling, Sweep ulti, etc., made the class function as something approaching a coherent whole. Now that's all gone (except rune, which to be clear, wasn;t made stronger just more convenient). Jabs is nowhere near as strong to carry the class the way people who complain about it make it out to be.

There already has been a downward adjustment to Jabs: we need 4 consecutive hits to proc burning light. And it's not surprising the same people who complain about the skill totally are ignoring that: because they are precisely the sorts of people who are getting hit 4 times in a row anyway so are still taking the burning light damage. And this is a huge reason - among many others - why I'd never accept that sort of arrangement: nerf jabs but buff the templar.

The people who don;t like this skill won't accept a playable version of it because the way they play means they will constantly get hit by it. So the complaints will never stop. And ZoS has never ever done that sort of balancing. Magicka Necros are still waiting for blastbones to actually do something and Templar players from beta will probably remember the original dev team stating that they'll get to replacing the restoring sprit passive with something more imaginative than the placeholder % cost reduction. 6 and half years later, they still havent got around to it. What would wind up happening is we'll just have to eat the nerf and at best get some sort of "improvement" ala the light attack weaving seen in this patch.

wheem_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Force pulse / Crushing shock sucks. No player in their right mind would accept a trade. Every Stamplar would run dizzy.

That was kind of the point. In the hierarchy of spammables, which all serve the same basic purpose, Jabs/Sweeps is hardly bottom of the barrel, despite numerous forum-claims to the contrary. And whenever damage is brought up, the fall back response is frequently something along the lines of, "Yea but Magicka has range, which is oh so very important."

In my view, Dizzying Swing is inarguably overpowered, especially with the attachment to the off-balanced/stun mechanic. Yet, every Stamina Templar ditches it in favor of Jabs...and not just for some "class flavor," either. If Biting Jabs were made into a generic skill that became available to every Stamina build, I'm sure huge swathes of them would be running it (at least if we ever get out of this proc set meta).

Joy_Division wrote: »

The Templars on the forum who know what they are doing and saying don't say Jabs in "bad." They use words like awkward, clunky, slow.

Some people actually do in fact say that it's bad, though they jealously protect the absurd damage numbers - but in this case you really can't have your cake and eat it too. A totally reliable spammable that can do >= 20k damage in 3 seconds against heavy armor would be completely ludicrous.

And while it might still be somewhat clunky, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. Not to mention the fact that there are other clunky and unreliable abilities out there that aren't nearly as potent as Jabs.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Stamplars outstandingly powerful offense? Against a target dummy maybe? The word that needs to be in there is "potentially" and what makes jabs frustrating is that more often that potential comes down not to the player using the skill, but rather the the opponent.

Yes, Stamina Templar's offense is outstanding in PvP, only being held back by the class' other issues and a meta that's still generally more favorable towards proc set stacking (and thus having lower ability-damage, and no stun mechanic attached to the spammable, unlike Dizzying Swing).

Joy_Division wrote: »

When Templars "explode" in PvP, that perception is mainly due to the fact that the majority of the times when people encounter that class it;s as a heal bot, a diehard, or someone who doesn't know what they are doing.

No, there was a time a few patches ago where Stamina Templar in BGs went from being one of the lesser represented Stamina classes to one of the most represented, almost overnight, and lots of them were very successful. Even some of the ones that weren't very good were an absolute nightmare when they'd add on to an engaged fight. One laggy break free is all it would take to either outright kill someone, or set them so far behind that they could never catch back up...even weak players can figure out how to press 1 button a few times in a row while wearing certain sets that they found mentioned in a build guide somewhere.

And for the record, Magicka Templar representation didn't really seem to change very much, if at all, during the same time period.

Waffennacht

The templar experience i have is its the only class I find myself yelling at.

I can do well, but dear god its so much easier to do well on every other class

Vizirith

If you are still playing StamPlar clearly you haven't been taking the massive hints zos has given you to stop playing it. Its obsolete in pretty much every regard. Stamcro and Stamden have better sustain, survivability, group utility, damage, build variety, and healing.

Burst: PotL vs Sub Assault or Blastbones: Not aoe, minor breach can now easily be applied by pierce armor on both Stamcro and Stamden for 9k total pen. StamPlar can run ransack and PoTL but the minor protection is redundant with aedric spear abilities. PotL requires you to damage the target for it to be worth anything unlike blastbones or sub assault.

Purge: Extended Ritual vs Expunge and Modify or Bull Netch: Massive differences in costs. Expunge and Modify (removing up to 2 negative effects from yourself and restoring 515 Magicka and Stamina for each negative effect removed. While slotted, the cost of all your abilities are reduced by 3%) costs 1940 health (at work just looking at eso-skillbook.com). Depending on what you purge you may have lost 2k health to those dots in the next second. Disregarding the 1030 stam and magicka return, disregarding the 3% ability cost reduction, depending on build/food that may almost be sustained just by your health recovery. Meanwhile templar purge is 5 debuffs for 4860 magicka, minor mending and 10% more blocked damage. Most stamplars don't invest anything into magicka so that'd be around what 500ish magicka regen and inifnitely sustainable if used around every 20 secs. It's literally not even in the same ballpark. Presuming you have 6 Dots that are ticking for 1k on you for 10 secs. Extended Ritual used 1 sec after they get applied: cost 4860 mag, save 45k damage (5k(purge5/6) x 9secs). Expunge and modify used every second starting 1 sec after they get applied: cost 5820 health, save 48k damage (9k+9k+8k+8k+7k+7k) gain 3090 mag and stam.

Dunning_Kruger

Vizirith wrote: »

If you are still playing StamPlar clearly you haven't been taking the massive hints zos has given you to stop playing it. Its obsolete in pretty much every regard. Stamcro and Stamden have better sustain, survivability, group utility, damage, build variety, and healing.

Burst: PotL vs Sub Assault or Blastbones: Not aoe, minor breach can now easily be applied by pierce armor on both Stamcro and Stamden for 9k total pen. StamPlar can run ransack and PoTL but the minor protection is redundant with aedric spear abilities. PotL requires you to damage the target for it to be worth anything unlike blastbones or sub assault.

Purge: Extended Ritual vs Expunge and Modify or Bull Netch: Massive differences in costs. Expunge and Modify (removing up to 2 negative effects from yourself and restoring 515 Magicka and Stamina for each negative effect removed. While slotted, the cost of all your abilities are reduced by 3%) costs 1940 health (at work just looking at eso-skillbook.com). Depending on what you purge you may have lost 2k health to those dots in the next second. Disregarding the 1030 stam and magicka return, disregarding the 3% ability cost reduction, depending on build/food that may almost be sustained just by your health recovery. Meanwhile templar purge is 5 debuffs for 4860 magicka, minor mending and 10% more blocked damage. Most stamplars don't invest anything into magicka so that'd be around what 500ish magicka regen and inifnitely sustainable if used around every 20 secs. It's literally not even in the same ballpark. Presuming you have 6 Dots that are ticking for 1k on you for 10 secs. Extended Ritual used 1 sec after they get applied: cost 4860 mag, save 45k damage (5k(purge5/6) x 9secs). Expunge and modify used every second starting 1 sec after they get applied: cost 5820 health, save 48k damage (9k+9k+8k+8k+7k+7k) gain 3090 mag and stam.

Honestly preach! If you are a dk getting dunked on by Templar’s Rn you need to re-evaluate your PvP prowess. Buff temps baby.
Daddy aggro wants the love.

KuroyukiESO

Stamina templar has been in a pretty bad spot for a really long time, but people ignored it because "Just spam jabs" and "Power of the light is broken". They really don't stop to take into consideration that damage isn't everything. Stamplar survivability comes down to one skill, and one skill alone. Cleansing ritual. That is ALL stamplar has. Yes, it is a strong ability, even one of the strongest, but it's nowhere near enough. Now the class doesn't even have the single target pressure it used to anymore, so it really has nothing going for it all. If it wasn't for the aesthetic and nostalgia, I would main something else.

Grimlok_S

KuroyukiESO wrote: »

Stamina templar has been in a pretty bad spot for a really long time, but people ignored it because "Just spam jabs" and "Power of the light is broken". They really don't stop to take into consideration that damage isn't everything. Stamplar survivability comes down to one skill, and one skill alone. Cleansing ritual. That is ALL stamplar has. Yes, it is a strong ability, even one of the strongest, but it's nowhere near enough. Now the class doesn't even have the single target pressure it used to anymore, so it really has nothing going for it all. If it wasn't for the aesthetic and nostalgia, I would main something else.

Do we even have that, though?

Necros have a health cost purge. While it costs health to use, it is often cheaper than the health cost of leaving those debuffs applied, and it restores resources per debuff.

Kinda jelly, tbh.

Waffennacht

IMO I find all the purges underwhelming in this meta