Free damage item sets make players lazy.

DTStormfox

Free damage item sets make players lazy: A no-CP PvP perspective on the direction of ESO.

Over the years, I have seen ESO evolve, devolve, and revolve in terms of classes, abilities, and item sets. Sometimes it was for the better, sometimes it was for the worse. The current direction of ESO seems to be all about item sets because Zenimax keeps pushing new item sets into the game with every update. As a consequence, the game has moved from theory-crafting around classes and their ability, to theory crafting around item sets.

PvP in ESO has become incredibly lazy to play because most of the damage, nowadays, comes from item sets. These sets are additive to the damage that a player can deal with their class abilities and other abilities (i.e. damage additive item sets). This has made most of the ability damage obsolete. This is especially true for stamina builds, which are, currently, mostly build around 'free damage' item sets. In the past, we had item sets such as Viper's Sting and Sload's Semblance that were incredibly lazy item sets for any stamina based build to run. They were not only lazy to run but also over-powered. Hence, Zenimax nerved these sets until they were more in line with other item sets. However, in recent updates, we saw the return of such lazy to run and over-powered item sets. Nowadays, it seems like the majority of stamina based builds are build around three sets in particular: Venomous Smite, Syvarra's Scales, and Sheer Venom. The former two are theoretically more powerful than Viper's Sting after it was turned into a damage over time effect and before the damage was nerved because these sets (1) deal more damage per second, and (2) also have an area of damage effect. But that is beside the point. Take, for example, also item sets that simply give you 'free damage' for blocking an attack such as Twin Sisters and Thews of the Harbinger. With the former set, you simply block once and immediately apply damage over time to your opponent. Considering that damage over time abilities have more effect in no-CP PvP, 'free damage' sets are so impactful in no-CP PvP that it almost isn't worth using damage abilities because you can easily 'out damage' your opponents with passive damage from such 'free damage' item sets. Also, considering that Zenimax is planning to remove any hit percentages from these 'free damage' item sets, such sets will become even more dominant in no-CP PvP. One could even argue that simply only running 'free damage' item sets may completely remove the necessity of having damage abilities on the ability bar(s), as this damage will become 100% hit chance and activate instantaneously.

In my opinion, Zenimax should step away from the whole concept of 'free damage' item sets. Similarly, one could make the case that 'free healing' sets also make players lazy but that may be for another topic. I rather see more class-specific item sets or 'elemental'-specific item sets (i.e. complementary item sets). Some examples of such complementary item sets are Elf Bane, Elemental Succession, Moon Hunter, Necropotence, Spell Power Cure, Spider Cultist Cowl, Blooddrinker, Deadly Strike, Dro'Zakar's Claws, Salvation, etc. These sets buff certain elements, status effects, or statistics rather than giving 'free damage' to the player just for hitting one button. Complementary sets make people 'think' about what sets they want to wear in combination with their class, weapons, etc.. 'Free damage' item sets make people lazy because such sets can simply be used because they are simply 'the meta' or deal the 'most damage' of all item sets while ignoring any benefits (or negative consequences) to the class, abilities, or weapons equipped.

So, to conclude, I believe it would do be better for the game to step away from damage additive item sets (free damage item sets) and move (back) to complementary item sets. Such that theory-crafting will be more about combining item sets with class abilities and benefits that are complementary with one another than the current theory-crafting 'meta' of simply using the highest 'free damage' item sets regardless of class.

Linaleah

its not that sets make players lazy. its that combat is structured in such a way, that the ONLY way for some people to have any chance in hell of holding their own - is to resort to those damage sets.

a game should NOT require obscene amounts of practicing rotations (and practice on a dummy is not even close to actual pvp environment, but its still necessary to start with) before they could at least hold their own.

idk

Proc sets have been in the game since it was released so there is nothing new here.. Additionally, Zos goes from buffing to nerfing proc sets overall and specifically. In the end, ESO has no real direction concerning proc sets as is being suggested here.

The direction of proc sets and the game as a whole meander at best. As someone who started playing ESO since before it went live I have no issue with proc sets as long as a decent player can outperform proc sets without a proc set builds.

Besides that, I think that to a degree they should scale without sets and CP except they should maintain the lack of ability to crit. Ofc, removing the ability to crit was the first major nerf Zos gave proc sets.

DTStormfox

idk wrote: »

In the end, ESO has no real direction concerning proc sets as is being suggested here.

The fact that there is no real direction concerning these sets is, in my opinion, the root of the problem I made a case for.

idk wrote: »

The direction of proc sets and the game as a whole meander at best. As someone who started playing ESO since before it went live I have no issue with proc sets as long as a decent player can outperform proc sets without a proc set builds.

I agree, however, I believe that this is no longer the case. In my opinion, proc set builds, currently, easily outperform decent players without proc sets. I play a lot of Battlegrounds deathmatch. I consistently see that players who are using proc sets easily deal 1 million+ damage overall, while players who are not using proc sets seem to average around 500k damage overall. Basically, the team with the most 'free damage' wins the deathmatch.

DTStormfox

Linaleah wrote: »

its not that sets make players lazy. its that combat is structured in such a way, that the ONLY way for some people to have any chance in hell of holding their own - is to resort to those damage sets.

a game should NOT require obscene amounts of practicing rotations (and practice on a dummy is not even close to actual pvp environment, but its still necessary to start with) before they could at least hold their own.

This is a bit of a slippery slope argument. I am not suggesting to make things that overly complicated. However, in the current state of the game, I believe that adding some depth to the game, or rather removing some oversimplistic mechanics from the game, wouldn't hurt the game and gaming experience at all.

Gilvoth

half the community likes proc sets
half the community does not like them
we are all allowed o have our opinion on the matter, but making new threads repeatedly about the same subject when there is allready Many threads allready talking about proc sets is considered spamming and is against the rules on the forum.

eso_lags

Some sets sure, but most are all right. I think a worse problem is the healing sets, like earthgore when it was first introduced and even now. Sets like that are so brainless and there are a few of them.. Either way I agree for the most part, I mean im not against all proc sets of any kind but i do think a lot of them make people very lazy and bad at the game. Like earthgore or zaan at their peak, brainless sets. Even now earthgore is a brainless set.

SpacemanSpiff1

i was already lazy

Linaleah

DTStormfox wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

its not that sets make players lazy. its that combat is structured in such a way, that the ONLY way for some people to have any chance in hell of holding their own - is to resort to those damage sets.

a game should NOT require obscene amounts of practicing rotations (and practice on a dummy is not even close to actual pvp environment, but its still necessary to start with) before they could at least hold their own.

This is a bit of a slippery slope argument. I am not suggesting to make things that overly complicated. However, in the current state of the game, I believe that adding some depth to the game, or rather removing some oversimplistic mechanics from the game, wouldn't hurt the game and gaming experience at all.

depends on your definition of "depth" this game already has more complexity to it that just about every other MMO that i have personaly played. over-simplistic mechanics as you put it - exist to at least somewhat level a playing field.

the only other possible solution is to rework combat so that its less unfriendly to most people.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

As there is currently a more active thread on this same topic, we have decided to close this one. Please be sure to post here to help keep everything together.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-