Please don't nerf proc sets.

hexentb16_ESO

TLDR, Please don't nerf proc sets ZOS.

Hello ZOS. There have been a few rather outspoken players on the forums lately asking you to nerf proc sets. I'm making this post to make it clear that I and many other players do not want proc sets to be nerfed.

I could go into details of why I think some of the players are calling for nerfs however while I consider my opinion about their desire for nerfs to be true it could be considered as baiting to some. So I shall refrain from commenting on their complaints in detail within this post.

However what I will say is this. If so many players are using proc sets, enough to make the pvp meta more interesting and fun, wouldn't that mean that there's a large amount of players who would dislike their new favorite proc builds being nerfed? I mean, just look at your analytics. If large numbers of players are using proc sets in pvp surely that is because they really like them. I for one enjoy this change to the pvp meta, even when I'm not using a proc build myself.

Danksta

Maybe they don't enjoy them. Maybe they just know it's proc or get proc'ed.

Luke_Flamesword

Yeah, a "few" players. For last weeks I'm every day in Cyrodiil and there is no day without players angry at proc sets in zone chat. They are often veteran players who play Cyro from long time. In forum you also can clearly see how may players are positive and how many are negative about it.

Of course there is some group of players who love this - I can bet that 80% of them have 40k health Stamina Warden in Cyro or BGS

OlumoGarbag

The thing is, proc sets don't make the PvP meta more interesting and fun. You get hardcarried by procsets and now you are afraid that once you go back to skill based environment, you won't enjoy PvP anymore. You don't want to improve at PvP you want the quickest and easiest solution to succes without any effort in improving. You basically want a participation medal for getting last place in a sport event and that's wrong.

Gilvoth

i have never had my character killed by someone with a proc set.
i dont see any problems with proc sets.

Taleof2Cities

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

The thing is, proc sets don't make the PvP meta more interesting and fun. You get hardcarried by procsets and now you are afraid that once you go back to skill based environment, you won't enjoy PvP anymore. You don't want to improve at PvP you want the quickest and easiest solution to succes without any effort in improving. You basically want a participation medal for getting last place in a sport event and that's wrong.

Though I agree proc sets are a bit overtuned, @OlumoGarbag, this isn't the best way to make your case for a nerf.

Belittling and patronizing your fellow players won't end well.

Xologamer

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

TLDR, Please don't nerf proc sets ZOS.

Hello ZOS. There have been a few rather outspoken players on the forums lately asking you to nerf proc sets. I'm making this post to make it clear that I and many other players do not want proc sets to be nerfed.

I could go into details of why I think some of the players are calling for nerfs however while I consider my opinion about their desire for nerfs to be true it could be considered as baiting to some. So I shall refrain from commenting on their complaints in detail within this post.

However what I will say is this. If so many players are using proc sets, enough to make the pvp meta more interesting and fun, wouldn't that mean that there's a large amount of players who would dislike their new favorite proc builds being nerfed? I mean, just look at your analytics. If large numbers of players are using proc sets in pvp surely that is because they really like them. I for one enjoy this change to the pvp meta, even when I'm not using a proc build myself.

1. i dont care if they nerf proc sets or dont
2. just because many players use it it isnt right e.g. IF NB would be so op to 1hit everything in a 50m range EVERYONE would play it - would it defnetly need a nerf YES !

its more like many-all players use it -> maybe its stronger than alternativs MAYBE we should adjust/nerf it

Xologamer

Gilvoth wrote: »

i have never had my character killed by someone with a proc set.
i dont see any problems with proc sets.

than either u play never pvp or u play once a year a 50k tank - everyone dies from everything sometimes otherwise u dont play pvp

TimeDazzler

I’m sorry but what is your reason for not wanting proc sets nerfed? You didn’t really explain it you just said you didn’t want to bash others. You can surely explain your reasoning without bashing others. Secondly, the people wanting proc sets nerfed is the majority of the PvP population, them being the population that is most affected. They are not the “few outspoken individuals” as you suggest. And finally the reason why proc sets are being used is because they are far more advantageous than non-proc sets, not because they are fun.

regime211

I'm a veteran player and although proc sets can get annoying and get me frustrated dieing from them. I don't think they should be nerfed at all, as a veteran player we may complain about those sets because we either have our 1vX spoiled due to proc sets or are unable to run away or kite from a fight. This game needs proc sets to help give the game some versatility, but some sets do need little adjustments.

Gilvoth

Xologamer wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

i have never had my character killed by someone with a proc set.
i dont see any problems with proc sets.

than either u play never pvp or u play once a year a 50k tank - everyone dies from everything sometimes otherwise u dont play pvp

i play pvp constantly. i hate pve ion eso, so i only play pvp.
and i play pvp every day.
i am also not a tank and have never played a tank in pvp, i only play nightblade.
i simply do not have problems from proc sets from people / enemies in pvp.

Syrusthevirus187

He has cloak on both bars

Gilvoth

Xologamer wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Xologamer wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

i have never had my character killed by someone with a proc set.
i dont see any problems with proc sets.

than either u play never pvp or u play once a year a 50k tank - everyone dies from everything sometimes otherwise u dont play pvp

i play pvp constantly. i hate pve ion eso, so i only play pvp.
and i play pvp every day.
i am also not a tank and have never played a tank in pvp, i only play nightblade.
i simply do not have problems from proc sets from people / enemies in pvp.

[Quoted post was removed]

i do die in pvp and i die alot infact to many enemies for all sorts of situations,
But, i do not die from proc sets, that a know of.
i have purge on my skill list, the only thing to me that is annoying is the set that gives me massive poison, but i purge it.

and by the way, before im accused of it:
no, i do not group / zerg with a zerg of people, nor do i have a pocket healer.
i only play solo, sometimes i group with my one friend and its just him and i, but i mainly solo.

i think what the problem is here, is that people simply DO NOT use purge on thier character and when proc sets or problems come to them, they die, but that is not the case with me and my build.

so i strongly Strongly suggest to all people:
slot purge and use it when your introuble, if you refuse to do that then you simply gimping your build and survival.

Gilvoth

Xologamer wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

well said, i strongly agree with you.
if i died or die from a proc set, then im not aware of it.

Recapitated

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

If large numbers of players are using proc sets in pvp surely that is because they really like them.

If ZOS made an insta-win item and you suddenly saw everyone running it in PVP you would conclude everyone likes that meta?

caperb

If purge is literally the only counter play to 80% of the strongest sets right now, then they shouldn't be this strong.
Proc sets should be nerfed, buffs/debuffs should be buffed to reward quick and smart gameplay. Instead the opposite is happening right now.
If the AoE nerfs go live these three actions might see a lot of people leave the game, because combat is becoming less and less fun.

Of course Cyrodiil will be filled with one button nightblades.

relentless_turnip

Players run them because they're BIS not because they're enjoyable.... If every player has 30k+ health 25k+ resists and more damage than any stat set, then you are forced into a meta essentially.

Incursion

Just make proc sets not stack. Only one hunters venom or sheer venom at a time and they are fine.

Vizirith

I have no issue with proc sets in general, the issue I have is with all the guaranteed procs, one of the major downsides for proc sets used to be that it was hard to combo with them because MOST had a %proc chance not guaranteed. Proc sets strength are the ability to potentially carry a less skilled player. They allow for a good amount of non-LOSable, non-blockable, non-dodgeable damage. The issue is that in no-cp those are the major ways of mitigating damage.

Merforum

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

TLDR, Please don't nerf proc sets ZOS.

Hello ZOS. There have been a few rather outspoken players on the forums lately asking you to nerf proc sets. I'm making this post to make it clear that I and many other players do not want proc sets to be nerfed.

I could go into details of why I think some of the players are calling for nerfs however while I consider my opinion about their desire for nerfs to be true it could be considered as baiting to some. So I shall refrain from commenting on their complaints in detail within this post.

However what I will say is this. If so many players are using proc sets, enough to make the pvp meta more interesting and fun, wouldn't that mean that there's a large amount of players who would dislike their new favorite proc builds being nerfed? I mean, just look at your analytics. If large numbers of players are using proc sets in pvp surely that is because they really like them. I for one enjoy this change to the pvp meta, even when I'm not using a proc build myself.

I think most players feel like you and hopefully ZOS will stay on the track they are to make the game more versatile. I have tried to introduce many people to the game and during the Free play events help them level up and usually they have fun. But to a person, EVERY one says they want to try PVP and I recommend they play for a while longer first. But EVERY one of them that doesn't listen tries it out or I take them in there and they/we get ganked over and over (I'm good enough now to reduce this) and receive just awful chat messages and taunting and the worst stuff you can imagine.

There are people who literally track you down over and over, especially in IC. Anyway, EVERY person told me that will never play the game again and not buy it because the experience is so unnecessarily toxic. I can't imagine how much money ESO lost because of a handful of super toxic people but they'll either continue on a good direction making the game more accessible to people or listen to complainers and nerf the game into oblivion.

I had a super toxic 5 BGs today so might be ready to stop playing soon.

FrankonPC

Everyone was running NMA and Fury less than a year ago. NMA and Fury were nerfed because EVERYONE was running fury and NMA. Why should this be any different? There's hundreds of sets in eso. When a few are used, adjustments should be made.

lucky_Sage

regime211 wrote: »

I'm a veteran player and although proc sets can get annoying and get me frustrated dieing from them. I don't think they should be nerfed at all, as a veteran player we may complain about those sets because we either have our 1vX spoiled due to proc sets or are unable to run away or kite from a fight. This game needs proc sets to help give the game some versatility, but some sets do need little adjustments.

What most people in proc sets stack 30k plus hp and get carried by 3 procs that each do more dmg per second than class dots and some do more than ults

ichsuisme

Proc sets have cool effects but they’re also too strong right now. So in my opinion, I think they ought to be nerfed.

I recently suggested that the proc damage be capped relative to player health, similar to how oblivion damage and shields are set up. So maybe according to your tooltip, one proc can hit for 9000 damage but it would cap out at whatever 15% of your target’s health is. If we assume your target has 28k hp in cyrodiil, that means your proc can still deal 4,200 damage. Play with the numbers as needed, 15% is just what I’d recommend to start with. This proc cap could be added to battle spirit so pve is unaffected.

I think this follows Zos’s own tradition of nerfs and even if the cap is just 15% of someone’s health per proc, that can will still accumulate & be noticeable over the course of a fight. Also, this option doesn’t limit build combinations: run as many procs as you want but know that each one will be capped.

With that said, there are two proc sets I think should remained uncapped just due to the purpose that they serve: Vicious death and azureblight. I’ve never played a pvp bomber but I think it’s funny when a group is unprepared and dies. At this point it’s kind of a cyrodiil tradition to be blown up unexpectedly. It teaches groups to be ready to spread out and always keep their buffs up. I would be sad if the bomb builds were no longer effective. Azureblight is being included here just to keep the door open for stamina builds, I know the two sets aren’t perfect equals.

Waffennacht

I also enjoy using overpowered sets; still doesnt make it fair

Saubon

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

However what I will say is this. If so many players are using proc sets, enough to make the pvp meta more interesting and fun, wouldn't that mean that there's a large amount of players who would dislike their new favorite proc builds being nerfed? I mean, just look at your analytics. If large numbers of players are using proc sets in pvp surely that is because they really like them. I for one enjoy this change to the pvp meta, even when I'm not using a proc build myself.

How can you be so sure ppl enjoy them? I hate proc meta and yet I play with proc sets, because I rather stick with whats viable instead of crying on forums.

NoSoup

Make purge cheaper and problem solved, end of the day experienced players with easy and affordable purges will out perform average players with proc sets, then everyone is happy

wheem_ESO

NoSoup wrote: »

Make purge cheaper and problem solved, end of the day experienced players with easy and affordable purges will out perform average players with proc sets, then everyone is happy

I disagree. Some procs are too cheap and easy to apply, and can be reapplied with 0 input from the player (ie, Poison Injection ticks reapplying Sheer Venom, or the Stampede ground AOE reapplying Maelstrom 2h DOT). In situations where there are numerous auto-reapplying proc sets going around, purge would be too GCD intensive, and proc sets would likely remain a problem.

Another side effect of a much cheaper purge would be that virtually anyone could hard-counter the offense of builds that rely on DOTs and debuffs that don't come from proc sets (or something like Oblivion's Foe, which can't reapply itself, and Magicka Necromancer might still need after the nerf in order to have noticeable offense).

Olupajmibanan

NoSoup wrote: »

Make purge cheaper and problem solved, end of the day experienced players with easy and affordable purges will out perform average players with proc sets, then everyone is happy

Now that's a solution but could cause some unwanted side effects. One such effect would be limited viability of attrition playstyle (which is getting less and less viable even now) where magDK or DW stamsorc are the prime example.

DK wings (reflect) have been removed from the game to prevent polarized matchups. Now we have this polarization present in case of templar/warden against DKs/stamsorcs. But making Purge widely accesible and cheap would greatly extend unwanted polarization.

I am all for making purge cheap and easily accesible for anyone, but only if some playstyle-defining effects (such as Fiery Breath or Searing Strike) are made unpurgeable.

Recapitated

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Make purge cheaper and problem solved, end of the day experienced players with easy and affordable purges will out perform average players with proc sets, then everyone is happy

Now that's a solution but could cause some unwanted side effects. One such effect would be limited viability of attrition playstyle (which is getting less and less viable even now) where magDK or DW stamsorc are the prime example.

DK wings (reflect) have been removed from the game to prevent polarized matchups. Now we have this polarization present in case of templar/warden against DKs/stamsorcs. But making Purge widely accesible and cheap would greatly extend unwanted polarization.

I am all for making purge cheap and easily accesible for anyone, but only if some playstyle-defining effects (such as Fiery Breath or Searing Strike) are made unpurgeable.

One option would be for purge to give a window of immunity to non-ability effects after using it. Still would make Purge more slotworthy so you'd run into people purging your Fiery Breath etc but it wouldn't shut DKs down outright.

red_emu

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

TLDR, Please don't nerf proc sets ZOS.

However what I will say is this. If so many players are using proc sets, enough to make the pvp meta more interesting and fun, wouldn't that mean that there's a large amount of players who would dislike their new favorite proc builds being nerfed? I mean, just look at your analytics. If large numbers of players are using proc sets in pvp surely that is because they really like them. I for one enjoy this change to the pvp meta, even when I'm not using a proc build myself.

Believe me, they don't. Long time PvPers liked using skills, tactics, balancing their damage, healing and sustain.

In the current meta, if you don't run proc-sets, you are disadvantaging yourself, because you can not achieve the same amount of damage just by having the right stats. Also, procs are free damage. They are usually procced by a light attack (free), heavy attack (free) or using a skill (like gap closers), which already deals damage.

Please don't tell me, you can achieve more damage with just a gap closer and stat heavy build, than having 1200 weapon damage and proccing Unleashed Terror.

wheem_ESO

red_emu wrote: »

Please don't tell me, you can achieve more damage with just a gap closer and stat heavy build, than having 1200 weapon damage and proccing Unleashed Terror.

Don't forget the Maelstrom 2h proc alongside it. Which will apply and reapply from Stampede's ground-based AOE DOT.