Willow’s Path crafted set

ichsuisme

With the major and minor buff changes, the big 5-piece bonus of Willow’s Path lost some of its allure

On the live server, major recovery buffs (endurance, intellect, and fortitude) give 20% recovery. This means that using Willow’s Path for a separate source for a general 25% extra recovery, has always been a solid option even if it wasn’t a wildly popular one.

In this coming Markarth patch, the recovery buffs are being doubled. Intellect will give 40% magicka recovery instead of 20%.

The under-used Willow’s path has essentially gone from a value higher than a major buff, down to barely more a minor buff. The value hasn’t changed but the set’s relative strength has.

Popping a potion will give 15% more recovery than a crafted, full 5-piece set. With your alchemy passives, you can have 100% uptime on these major recoveries.

I’d really like to insist on a modest buff or change for this set. Many sets were changed accordingly this patch in order to adjust to the buff changes, this set seems like it might’ve just been overlooked.

I won’t recommend bumping the 25% value up any higher since it does stack with other recoveries, but also, how much recovery could someone actually need? So I’ll suggest something else: what if, whenever we have at least one of our three resource pools at 100%, and our recovery is essentially going to waste, we generate 1 ultimate each second, only while in combat of course.

In pvp this would come down to managing your secondary resource. Your primary can be assumed to be continuously used for skills while in combat and your health can’t always be assumed to be at 100%. So for stamina builds this means not over casting many of the class buffs and class utility skills (streak, extended ritual, armor buffs, etc.); for magicka builds this means not wasting stamina on blocking for too long, running excessively, or roll dodging when unnecessary.

In pve, it’s the same situation, though admittedly maybe a little easier to maintain. But try completing vMA without dodge rolling on a magicka toon or using many of the great class skills while on a stamina build. And from my experience as a healer for vet content, dps definitely do take damage so they again can’t always assume they’ll maintain a 100% health.

No matter which content you enjoy, you will have to manage your resources if you want to generate that extra ultimate.

And 1 ultimate per second might not sound like much but it’s actually a little better than minor heroism though this is a less reliable source.

Open to thoughts and other suggestions. I don’t think this is an outrageous recommendation but I would like to know what others think. I hope Zos will give this set a little extra something even if it’s not what I’ve suggested here; I want crafted sets to stay relevant but too many of them are already sub-par. That’s not great since it takes a considerable amount of time and dedication to train all those crafted skills and research traits.

jaws343

But, the regen boosts from Willow's Path are amplified by the major/minor changes as well. Since the major/minor boosts benefit from having larger pools of resources before activating them. So having Willow's path with give you even more regen with the major/minor active through a potion than you would get without having the set on.

katorga

The major/minor changes have left all sorts of sets, passives, skills and ultimates completely out of whack.

The big question is if regen buffs are 40/20% why do I even need a regen set at all, and if I do, just how powerful will Amberplasm and Eternal Vigor be now?

ManDraKE

there is no reason to use Willow's path when you can use Eternal Vigor. EV is plain better.

Firstmep

To be honest willows path pales in comparison to eternal vigor, so do most sustain sets.
At least sets like warlock, trappings etc can be used on 1 bar only, willows path can't.
Even the recently buffed Blackrose doesn't come close to the effectiveness of eternal vigor, and with the major/minor changes the divide is going to be even bigger.

Derra

jaws343 wrote: »

But, the regen boosts from Willow's Path are amplified by the major/minor changes as well. Since the major/minor boosts benefit from having larger pools of resources before activating them. So having Willow's path with give you even more regen with the major/minor active through a potion than you would get without having the set on.

No. %-Recovery modifiers are additive.

OP is correct - the changes to major/minor buffs make willows path relatively worse.

Tannus15

it's still better than 3 minor buffs (intellect, endurance and fortitude) except it's a separate buff so it stacks on top of that.
I think it's fine.

WreckfulAbandon

Willow's Path is an interesting set because its effectiveness is entirely dependent on how much regen you build for. When you consider the total amount of regen the set is giving you (and all 3 are up 100% unlike EV) it can actually be competitive with EV on some builds if you don't want to take a hit in regen while health is low.

I ran some numbers for comparison not that long ago, will try to bring them up when I get home, but with some builds Willow's Path can be competitive with EV which is nice since it's crafted

YandereGirlfriend

I don't doubt that you can use this set in some niche situations but it's also true that it has lost power relative to other sets with the new sustain buffs. Players are basically getting Willow's Path for free just by using Tripots now.

Since regeneration is so plentiful now, it would be kind of nice to see this set given some extra spice.

I do like the OP's suggestion for ultimate generation for having a maxed-out resource, but I wonder if you could maybe go in the other direction and then strengthen the ultimate generation: something like "For each resource pool that is under 50% gain 1 Ultimate per second during combat."

That would give you the opposite incentive, to live dangerously and spend freely with your resources, which is usually not something that you want to do, especially with your health. That seems like an interesting game play wrinkle, that would provide players reliable Ultimate from their off-resource pool, an unreliable source from their primary resource pool, and finally some additional Ultimate when in execute range.

Zeromaz

Dude.... a ton of skills and abilities will be in the same boat. We don’t need the same post about every ability or set bonus

Finedaible

There are tons of sets and skills which got mucked up a lot worse for not accounting for the Major/Minor changes. They never should have done these changes without adjusting everything else. Why did they only adjust a few sets this patch and none of the skills? Why didn't they do these Major/Minor changes BEFORE the entire item set audit? It makes no logical sense. Furthermore, why are these changes being shipped out piecemeal over months like they have been doing this last year or so?

I wouldn't be surprised if next patch they realized the recovery buffs are too strong and now they have to touch the same stuff they just adjusted again without making any progress.

YandereGirlfriend

Yeah, I really wonder what the Combat team does with themselves during the PTS (and really, most of the rest of the year as well).

Their work output does not seem to match up with what even a single employee could accomplish when given that much time, and this is supposedly a team comprised of several people.

Tannus15

@Finedaible they wanted to standardise the skills first so that these changes will have equal effect on all classes. It's pretty solid logic.

The changes they made are targeted to "bring up the floor" while keeping the ceiling steady, which they might have done once the meta resettles.

It's for the lower end of trials groups that they buffed sustain and nerfed ele drain for example. lower end groups will reach pen cap easier with the pierce armour change and buffs to breach. likewise major and minor courage are buffed, the easiest trial buffs to maintain, while all the harder buffs were nerfed to compensate. We'll work just as hard for less benefit, but not suffer as much for lower uptimes.

Sorry to say for the very best groups, I don't particularly care if it takes you 5 seconds longer to clear vAS+2. That's not important to the game or maintaining the end game trial community. Helping prog groups get their first clears helps the end game community a hell of a lot more.

I think in general PvE will be in a better place this patch while PvP will be largely unaffected apart from some builds shifting because i don't think these changes benefit or hinder any particular class.

dcam86b14_ESO

In PVP I will take EV over WP as a healer but that's just me trying to be as tanky and resource cautious as possible.

MashmalloMan

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Yeah, I really wonder what the Combat team does with themselves during the PTS (and really, most of the rest of the year as well).

Their work output does not seem to match up with what even a single employee could accomplish when given that much time, and this is supposedly a team comprised of several people.

@YandereGirlfriend The team has admitted to working on DLC's 2-4 udpates ahead of when we receive them. The majority of PTS is for bug fixing and minor feedback changes if it's absolutely necessary because they're already 2 steps ahead of what we think they're working on today..

Eg. before Greymoor during update 25 in an interview with a Russian interviewer they said they were already finishing up work for Update 27 and 28 with work started on update 29 and the chapter (30) for next year. This is just how game developement works and it's why they know way more about their combat vision then they let their playerbase know.

They probably have a roadmap, where they adjust other things along the way, but the main objective remains the same, this is the norm in gaming developement, so it shouldn't be a shock.

I'm willing to bet on a few things like how their decisions for Racial changes around update 20 (early 2019), were in part due to how they decided to make Necromancers for update 22(mid 2019). Eg. 200 mag/stam regen. 1250 physical/spell pen. 1500 hp. 10% weapon/spell crit in execute per skill slotted. 10% dot dmg/mitigation (now 15%). Most of their passives are flat values and hit both sides of the coin equally. The original classes are designed much differently, with seperate bonuses, often time multiplers of 10-20% instead of flat values..

Look at Boneyard, first magicka aoe skill in the game to provide both Breach and Fracture, it could of easily just been Breach like Magicka Warden's Scorch pre update 28 and people wouldn't bat an eye, but they must of been aware of what was to come to simply slide in Fracture for no apparent reason..

As of Update 24 (6 months later), Major Ward and Resolve were combined into 1 buff with mention of combining sources of Breach and Fracture in a "future" update.

Fast forward to Update 28 (1 year later) and they finally did what they mentioned they would, except now they're going 1 step further by rebalancing the major/minor system and talks of combining crit values TOO (mentioned crit changes will continue into update 29).

This team may be slow (I've heard they're under staffed), but they're not stupid. It's just hard to see the bigger picture when we're always getting 1 piece of the pie and we have limited attention spans, only they know their true intentions and the future of the game which I believe is pretty exciting given the recent changes.

Kind of glad I barely play anymore because it use to be a nightmare waiting 3 months at a time for changes the community felt were obvious. I feel like it's like that moment you get to watch a huge cultural show like Game of Thrones 6 seasons in, instead of having to watch it week to week as it releases over those 6 years. It's why I love putting off shows as long as I can because the moment I get hooked, I won't stop thinking about it.

Thats the point I'm at now with this game.. I'll probably play this patch for a week to try out the sticker book, but ultimately, won't play full time until CP is finally reworked and there is some type of vertical progression system again. Spell Crafting would also reignite the ESO fire for me.

YandereGirlfriend

@MashmalloMan I think there's much truth in what you say but I also think it's a bit too charitable.

Allowing things like Magicka Blastbones to go unaddressed for the greater part of a year is simply shoddy development and things like chronic under-staffing point clearly to management problems. Having a development process that is too inflexible so as to be able to resolve problems like that as they arise is a sign of a flawed development process.

And even if they are working several Updates ahead it doesn't explain why they changed the Major/Minor buff system and (some of) the sets that used them yet completely omitted any and all skills that were dependent upon them. Such changes ought to have been addressed in the present Update so that players do not have sets and skills balanced with two separate power budgets existing in the game at the same time. That is again perhaps a management problem and a failure to think holistically about the game (...likely because the current management does not actually play enough of the game to be able to do this).

Very much agree with you on Spell Crafting though. I would be over the moon were that to be added.

MashmalloMan

@YandereGirlfriend Fair enough. Little things like that really have no excuse because it takes all of probably 30-60 minutes to update a skill with simple code, to add something like +20% dmg or some crap like that. Unless they plan on adding a new effect like some people want, with a fire trail or double BB spawn, or anything more ambitious, there shouldn't be any excuse for a lack of care to 1 out of the 12 current damage specs. It's not like it isn't apparent given the fact that the stamina morph adds something and the magicka morph doesn't.

I believe their original stance on the matter was something to the tune of... it increases damage by 10% from the base ability, so while it doesn't do anything extra, for the time being we're okay to leave it as is.

That was like... 3 udpates ago now? Not okay.

I think you're right though, I have nothing but respect for game developers in general, they're not the ones who call the shots, they're the grunts, they're the ones who put their blood, sweat and tears, working overtime on a product they're most likely very passionate about. It is an art form no less. No one gets into game design for just "money", they have a passion for game design.

[snip]

[Edit for Bashing.]