Should stats like Phys/Spell Pen be combined together? Already happening.

VixxVexx

NOTE: This is mostly from a pvp perspective.
With every patch more stats are getting combined together. This is probably just for the sake of performance, but it could have some good/bad consequences.
Examples:

• Resistance: Item sets now provide an Armor bonus instead of just Physical/Spell Resistance. Major & Minor Resolve now grant both resistances(rip Major & Minor Ward). The Lady Mundus provides both.
• Penetration: There are some new item sets that provide Offensive Penetration. Major & Minor Breach now reduce both resistances (rip Major & Minor Breach). The Lover Mundus provides both.
• Damage: There are quite a few item sets that provide both Weapon & Spell Damage within the same line (not just 5 pieces). Major & Minor Courage increase both. There is also the Berserk enchant and Bloodthirsty trait.
• Crit Chance: There are some sets that provide both Weapon & Spell Critical, some new sets grant just Critical Chance instead. Flames of Oblivion grants both sides, same with the Thief Mundus and Precise trait.
• Crit Damage: Outside of CP and some exceptions this is mostly the same stat already. In fact, this one is more separated between Crit Damage and Crit Healing.

The consequences:
THE GOOD:
Stamina specs can make use of elemental class skills now.
Magicka specs get access to more weapon skills.
Stamina healers maybe
More items sets accessible to both sides.
Class ultimates become very interesting.
Class passives more useful for both specs.
Less stats to track = better performance?
Ability morphs can provide a choice instead of generic stam/mag divide
If there's an overpowered set introduction, everyone gets to complain, sorry I mean debate

THE BAD:
Stat homogenization could kill build diversity
General dumbing down of the game
A lot of work to rebalance everything from Armor passives to racials.
CP would have to be heavily reworked/removed
Where does it stop? Max stats and recoveries should stay separate

Do you like this direction? You think the cons outweigh the pros? Any other pros/cons?

I personally would love if:
My Stamdk could use Whip;
My Magdk could use Corrosive Armor;
My Stamsorc could use Overload;
My Magsorc or Magplar could use Dawnbreaker;
My Magblade could use a bow;
etc...

karekiz

VixxVexx wrote: »

Where does it stop? Max stats and recoveries should stay separate

Max stats sure. Possible to merge but not a priority.

I would highly favor if more sets function hybrid like Symphony of Blades. Just based on highest resource. Worm cult for example could be used for stam as it would effect both groups. This also helps out reduce the amount of armor bloat healers might have <Wurms/Hircine/Hollow/<Insert future set here>.

Often time sets that increase both stam or mag in resource get tagged with a hybrid penalty and essentially are worse versions of another set that does a single increase. This change would help balance those two.

Atherakhia

If 2 stats are equally weighted why should they be 2 different stats? Stat homogenization isn't going to reduce build diversity, it will help it as stam/mag sets could be used on mag/stam sets with less waste.

Spell/Weapon Damage.
Spell/Weapon Crit.
Etc.

But this is different than what I think you're describing? These type of stats wouldn't make a Stam DK want to use whip because whip is still based off your magicka resource. While I suppose a change like this would make some hybrid type builds more viable, by and large most people will still be dedicated solely to stamina or magicka and use those skills.

So I guess I'm not sure how what you're suggesting would allow a StamDK to use Whip for example? Unless I'm not understanding your main point since you mentioend things like weapon and spell damage/pen but didn't say anything about skills/sets simply increasing a max stat?

Recapitated

I don't think pen is going to make a major difference. Damage, crit, and max stats are another story.

None of what magicka specs use stam for is based on crit or damage. Larger stam pools are nice but they use no abilities that scale off them, just dodge block and break free.

OTOH mag heals like Living Trellis scale off SD, crit and max mag so those are beneficial to stam classes. Hybrid sets like Clever Alchemist or Innate Axiom look equally usable on paper but in practice they make stam more well-rounded.

YandereGirlfriend

I am super in favor of merging some of these redundant stats, especially Penetration and Critical Chance. It's another important milestone toward making Hybrid builds viable again.

Clearly though, you can't merge Max Stats and I would advocate to leave Spell Damage and Weapon Damage as separate stats as well.

Relatedly, all Crafted Sets should be converted to provide both Magicka-oriented and Stamina-oriented bonuses when they add damage-related stas so that they are usable for both magDPS and stamDPS. Healer and Tank Crafted Sets should stay the way they are though (unless they also contain damage-related bonuses).

Exploring ways for certain sets to use your highest values, like @karekiz suggested, would be interesting as well. You could have, say, Worm Cult boost your highest Regeneration stat (between Mag and Stam) and then have Hircine's boost your lowest Regeneration stat, so that you could still get bonuses to both Stam and Mag Recovery but you wouldn't necessarily have to skew your entire group in one direction when choosing which set to wear.

Care and caution would have to be given to converting more abilities to use highest stats though. Some iconic abilities would make sense, but converting many or most skills would be a mistake.

Firstmep

I mean it feels like we are going backwards here.
Soon we will have armor, power and health as the only stats.

YandereGirlfriend

Firstmep wrote: »

I mean it feels like we are going backwards here.
Soon we will have armor, power and health as the only stats.

Being semi-facetious, but that's not all that much different from the mainstream "Keep Calm and Stack Critical Chance" meta for PvE or mindlessly stacking Weapon Damage in PvP.

You can, of course, do other things (at least in PvP...) if you know what you're doing but railroading people into going Full Stam or Full Mag if they want to have an efficient build is hardly interesting. May as well strip away Attributes entirely and just select between "Stamina Character," "Magicka Character" or "Tank" on character creation.

Merging repetitious stats leads to more build diversity rather than less and that is universally good for the game.

JohnOfMarkarth

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

I mean it feels like we are going backwards here.
Soon we will have armor, power and health as the only stats.

Being semi-facetious, but that's not all that much different from the mainstream "Keep Calm and Stack Critical Chance" meta for PvE or mindlessly stacking Weapon Damage in PvP.

You can, of course, do other things (at least in PvP...) if you know what you're doing but railroading people into going Full Stam or Full Mag if they want to have an efficient build is hardly interesting. May as well strip away Attributes entirely and just select between "Stamina Character," "Magicka Character" or "Tank" on character creation.

Merging repetitious stats leads to more build diversity rather than less and that is universally good for the game.

I agree. Much of what we have so far is just illusion of choice. And many players, unknowingly... even ignore the illusion of choice and go for the meta-tic stat of the day. Be it health+proc in pvp or crit+spell/wep dmg in pve.
Merging the secondary stats such as pen and crit that arent defining characteristic to being stam mag or health (because each tries to stack em anyways) is not a step back... Merging stam and mag maxes would be tho... Because both mags and stams seek pen and crit... but mags dont seek stam and vic.ver. (its sometimes hard to put things into words)

Merge crit and pen and stop there. Let some sets have both stats, mainly those that have very unique mechanics... while pure stat boosters would have just mag or stam versions of emselves.