warden seems p2w

Noctus

this patch kinda made it clearer to me that warden rly are on top of the foodchain especially in battlegrounds. in EUPC that class is the most successfull one.

JayKwellen

They're getting slapped pretty hard by the major/minor changes. They're losing 3% damage from berserk and another 3% from vulnerability, 20% mitigation from major protection and 3% from minor protection, and I believe 20% healing (or possible 14, can't remember if major mending is down to 10 or 16%) from major mending. Magdens are also losing 14% healing reduction from the major defile change. Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

The class pretty much just took a meteor to the face. They'll survive I'm sure, but how bout we let the dust settle a bit before trying to get them hit by another one eh?

Firstmep

JayKwellen wrote: »

They're getting slapped pretty hard by the major/minor changes. They're losing 3% damage from berserk and another 3% from vulnerability, 20% mitigation from major protection and 3% from minor protection, and I believe 20% healing (or possible 14, can't remember if major mending is down to 10 or 16%) from major mending. Magdens are also losing 14% healing reduction from the major defile change. Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

The class pretty much just took a meteor to the face. They'll survive I'm sure, but how bout we let the dust settle a bit before trying to get them hit by another one eh?

Plenty of classes affected, also major mending loss isn't a big deal as healing is going up across the board anyway.
Templars also lose major protection on their ult, Necro from deaden pain.
The berserk and vuln nerfs aren't that bad when you realize ppl will be more squishy with defensive buffs getting nerfed.
Honestly all warden needs is Arctic blast heal to be toned down a peg.
Without it you wouldn't be able to run around with stupidly high hp pools and still have the best healing in the game.

Xiomaro

Firstmep wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

They're getting slapped pretty hard by the major/minor changes. They're losing 3% damage from berserk and another 3% from vulnerability, 20% mitigation from major protection and 3% from minor protection, and I believe 20% healing (or possible 14, can't remember if major mending is down to 10 or 16%) from major mending. Magdens are also losing 14% healing reduction from the major defile change. Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

The class pretty much just took a meteor to the face. They'll survive I'm sure, but how bout we let the dust settle a bit before trying to get them hit by another one eh?

Plenty of classes affected, also major mending loss isn't a big deal as healing is going up across the board anyway.
Templars also lose major protection on their ult, Necro from deaden pain.
The berserk and vuln nerfs aren't that bad when you realize ppl will be more squishy with defensive buffs getting nerfed.
Honestly all warden needs is Arctic blast heal to be toned down a peg.
Without it you wouldn't be able to run around with stupidly high hp pools and still have the best healing in the game.

Stamsorcs and Stamplar come off fairly well with the changes. Minor expedition is buffed for Stamsorc. Minor Breach, Major Savagery and Minor Fortitude/Endurance/Intellect are buffed for Stamplar. Neither of them make huge use off the nerfed stuff as far as I'm aware.

IAmIcehouse

Wardens are strong in PVP. I am not sure what discussion you are trying to prompt, everyone knows wardens are strong.

Are you shocked you need to pay for content? Much of ESO content is behind of a paywall, even if you just play battlegrounds. DLC dungeon sets, mythic items, DLC monster sets. It's how they make money.

VaranisArano

Seems a little late to be complaining about a class first sold in 2017 and since nerfed.

MurderMostFoul

JayKwellen wrote: »

Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

Is this true? My understanding was that both morphs would offer Major Resist debuff (reducing both phy and spell).

Firstmep

Xiomaro wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

They're getting slapped pretty hard by the major/minor changes. They're losing 3% damage from berserk and another 3% from vulnerability, 20% mitigation from major protection and 3% from minor protection, and I believe 20% healing (or possible 14, can't remember if major mending is down to 10 or 16%) from major mending. Magdens are also losing 14% healing reduction from the major defile change. Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

The class pretty much just took a meteor to the face. They'll survive I'm sure, but how bout we let the dust settle a bit before trying to get them hit by another one eh?

Plenty of classes affected, also major mending loss isn't a big deal as healing is going up across the board anyway.
Templars also lose major protection on their ult, Necro from deaden pain.
The berserk and vuln nerfs aren't that bad when you realize ppl will be more squishy with defensive buffs getting nerfed.
Honestly all warden needs is Arctic blast heal to be toned down a peg.
Without it you wouldn't be able to run around with stupidly high hp pools and still have the best healing in the game.

Stamsorcs and Stamplar come off fairly well with the changes. Minor expedition is buffed for Stamsorc. Minor Breach, Major Savagery and Minor Fortitude/Endurance/Intellect are buffed for Stamplar. Neither of them make huge use off the nerfed stuff as far as I'm aware.

Minor breach is available to all now, not just stamplar, nobody is going to double bar repentance for minor intellect/fortitude, major savagery 2% buff yes l, wardens also have it on lotus and everyone that slots camo hunter.
Minor protection for Templar nerfed, major protection on remembrance nerfed, major maim on nova nerfed.
Also Templar is so far below warden in pvp that it really makes no difference, Arctic blast is still going to be ridiculous, even more so when above 40% hp now.
So no, wardens arent getting gutted, they'll still be top tier for pvp.
And stamplar is still going to be bottom barrel as our main burst skill is bugged and weak, have one of the worst self healing in the game, crappy sustain, bad passives etc.
If anything the animal companion passive for warden is going to be worth more now that minor berserk is only 5%.

Xiomaro

Firstmep wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

They're getting slapped pretty hard by the major/minor changes. They're losing 3% damage from berserk and another 3% from vulnerability, 20% mitigation from major protection and 3% from minor protection, and I believe 20% healing (or possible 14, can't remember if major mending is down to 10 or 16%) from major mending. Magdens are also losing 14% healing reduction from the major defile change. Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

The class pretty much just took a meteor to the face. They'll survive I'm sure, but how bout we let the dust settle a bit before trying to get them hit by another one eh?

Plenty of classes affected, also major mending loss isn't a big deal as healing is going up across the board anyway.
Templars also lose major protection on their ult, Necro from deaden pain.
The berserk and vuln nerfs aren't that bad when you realize ppl will be more squishy with defensive buffs getting nerfed.
Honestly all warden needs is Arctic blast heal to be toned down a peg.
Without it you wouldn't be able to run around with stupidly high hp pools and still have the best healing in the game.

Stamsorcs and Stamplar come off fairly well with the changes. Minor expedition is buffed for Stamsorc. Minor Breach, Major Savagery and Minor Fortitude/Endurance/Intellect are buffed for Stamplar. Neither of them make huge use off the nerfed stuff as far as I'm aware.

Minor breach is available to all now, not just stamplar, nobody is going to double bar repentance for minor intellect/fortitude, major savagery 2% buff yes l, wardens also have it on lotus and everyone that slots camo hunter.
Minor protection for Templar nerfed, major protection on remembrance nerfed, major maim on nova nerfed.
Also Templar is so far below warden in pvp that it really makes no difference, Arctic blast is still going to be ridiculous, even more so when above 40% hp now.
So no, wardens arent getting gutted, they'll still be top tier for pvp.
And stamplar is still going to be bottom barrel as our main burst skill is bugged and weak, have one of the worst self healing in the game, crappy sustain, bad passives etc.
If anything the animal companion passive for warden is going to be worth more now that minor berserk is only 5%.

Ah fair enough, thanks for the clarification. Unlucky Stamplars

Urzigurumash

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

Is this true? My understanding was that both morphs would offer Major Resist debuff (reducing both phy and spell).

My understanding is Sub Assault is the only skill which had Fracture which isn't getting the new Breach. They specifically noted this. Apparently in lieu of a specific note that Breach/Fracture was removed from a skill, any skill having either was converted to the new Breach, so Caltrops, Unnerving Boneyard, Noxious Breath, and Deep Fissure all remain as AoE Breach.

My thoughts are that we'll have to see how the buff adjustment works out, but Wardens will still have the most complete and diverse class toolkit.

MurderMostFoul

Urzigurumash wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

Is this true? My understanding was that both morphs would offer Major Resist debuff (reducing both phy and spell).

My understanding is Sub Assault is the only skill which had Fracture which isn't getting the new Breach. They specifically noted this. Apparently in lieu of a specific note that Breach/Fracture was removed from a skill, any skill having either was converted to the new Breach, so Caltrops, Unnerving Boneyard, Noxious Breath, and Deep Fissure all remain as AoE Breach.

My thoughts are that we'll have to see how the buff adjustment works out, but Wardens will still have the most complete and diverse class toolkit.

I know there's been confusion on this point before, can someone please just post a screenshot from PTS?

Edit:
https://youtu.be/oFT4GdyUzho

Nvm, it does appear to be nerfed, no longer applying a resistance debuff.

Urzigurumash

Urzigurumash wrote: »

My thoughts are that we'll have to see how the buff adjustment works out, but Wardens will still have the most complete and diverse class toolkit.

I should clarify when I say most diverse class toolkit I don't necessarily mean the most generally diverse toolkit considering Weapon / Werewolf / Vampire etc skills, since other classes might make better use of these skills.

blabafat

Noctus wrote: »

this patch kinda made it clearer to me that warden rly are on top of the foodchain especially in battlegrounds. in EUPC that class is the most successfull one.

Yeah, the best classes are stam versions of the ones that require DLC

Noctus

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

Is this true? My understanding was that both morphs would offer Major Resist debuff (reducing both phy and spell).

My understanding is Sub Assault is the only skill which had Fracture which isn't getting the new Breach. They specifically noted this. Apparently in lieu of a specific note that Breach/Fracture was removed from a skill, any skill having either was converted to the new Breach, so Caltrops, Unnerving Boneyard, Noxious Breath, and Deep Fissure all remain as AoE Breach.

My thoughts are that we'll have to see how the buff adjustment works out, but Wardens will still have the most complete and diverse class toolkit.

I know there's been confusion on this point before, can someone please just post a screenshot from PTS?

that debuff change rly doesnt help tho the main issue with the class is its ridiculous survivability. they are harder to kill than any other class yet they still have a burst to rely on despite beeing tanky as hell. i have 2 wardens on my account its not like im complaining on the p2w factor but i dont wanna be forced to play a class to be better in pvp

Rhaegar75

Wardens are simply too tanky whilst able to generate way too much damage!

Juhasow

It's not that wardens are OP by default , itheir current strenght is partially coming from the fact proc sets and malacath band exist in their current form.

Hakkanistorm

Warden is so strong and unkillable that playing on it is simply boring. Wardens and Sorcerers who consider this class to be their main one are just noobs who are incapable of anything more

However, the whole power of the Warden now lies in malacath. If it were not for it, they would have to sacrifice a lot of survival, otherwise they would not be able to kill anyone.

novemberhhh

Uh warden has always been p2w for pvp. Little less now that necro is the newer p2w class. But you shoulda seen em when they were initially released...

Saubon

JayKwellen wrote: »

Stamdens are also losing breech all together, so they'll have to find a way to slot pierce or just lose 5900 armor reduction.

This isn't so bad, ppl are going to use pierce anyway, 9k armor pen on cheap stamina backbarskill.

Rhaegar75

Hakkanistorm wrote: »

Warden is so strong and unkillable that playing on it is simply boring. Wardens and Sorcerers who consider this class to be their main one are just noobs who are incapable of anything more

However, the whole power of the Warden now lies in malacath. If it were not for it, they would have to sacrifice a lot of survival, otherwise they would not be able to kill anyone.

gosh I couldn't agree more!!! Wardens and MagSorc are easy mode!!

LightYagami

FREE cleanse every 5 seconds,
FREE buff,
FREE regeneration.

All come with ONE skill, Netch.

Insanely p2w in PvP.

Vanagrand

Necros and Wardens are by far ahead of the other clases. That's why IC, when the tryharders like to compare their genitalia, you have to double check any time you see a ballgroup not form entirely by these two clases. Their magicka version are not op, but their stamina classes are able to tank a crazy amount of damage and burst like a ganker. Non other clases are even close to them and like I said, thats why all the tryharders are playing them.

Vanagrand

Knowing that, Zos is gonna fix it anytime soon?I don't think so, I have been playing from the start of summer and nothing have changed at all. The were top1 in June they still top 1 and 2 in almost November.

mikey_reach

I paid for the class it better help me win.

wheem_ESO

Stamina Warden has been among the tip top, best-of-the-best classes since Morrowind was in early access, so it's not like this is some kind of new development. In fact, they're one of the classes that can play in the current meta with 0 proc sets and still be really competitive.

But even the ones that are all loaded up with proc sets can spam Dizzy Swings for more damage than full-stat build Magicka builds can do with their spammables (barring Sweeps and Whip I guess). Throw in the Shalks and an off-GCD stun into a Dawnbreaker, and you have damage that is just flat out not survivable for anyone that can't escape from them. Unless maybe you're also a Warden and can spam the HP-based heal that used to be so worthless, but is now very much overpowered in comparison to the "burst" heal of anyone that needs Magicka and Spell Damage to get their HP restored.

mikey_reach wrote: »

I paid for the class it better help me win.

I paid for Magicka Necromancer and it has been comparative trash for the entire year and a half'ish that it has existed.

Luckylancer

[snip]

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Stamina
I paid for Magicka Necromancer and it has been comparative trash for the entire year and a half'ish that it has existed.

I paid for Magden. It was worse DD in PvE, bad healer at PvE, bad tank in PvE. It's PvP identitiy was 2 toxic skills.. Undodgeable bird and scorch stun. It was still weakish at PvP other than annoying people. My annoyment still continues to this day. I paid and spent time leveling to lose, I dont look for p2w btw. I log in time to time since. Minimal commitment is best with this game.

[Edit for double post.]

Rhaegar75

are wardens grossly OP after the new patch?

Waffennacht

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

are wardens grossly OP after the new patch?

I dont see them being grossly above Sorcs or Necros; the others maybe

Joinovikova

Waffennacht wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

are wardens grossly OP after the new patch?

I dont see them being grossly above Sorcs or Necros; the others maybe

I think stamden is still strogest classs at least at non CP ( based on PVP meter ) but no ofense stack proc sets stam sorc or stam necro can challange, honestly also stack proc set lNB also have some words to say..

katorga

Waffennacht wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

are wardens grossly OP after the new patch?

I dont see them being grossly above Sorcs or Necros; the others maybe

Wardens are the class best suited for the current health/proc meta. When the meta changes, they may or may not be top.

Ironically, you mention Sorcs, magicka sorcs are one of the worst classes to leverage the current meta. But the class has a good enough kit to hold its own no matter the meta. Necros, may or may not be any good after the major buff/debuff changes. They are mainly a standard stamina build class, like stam sorc, very dependent on weapon skills, but with a reasonably decent delayed burst skill, unlike stam sorc.

Araneae6537

I am skeptical of any statement of any of the classes currently being that much better than all others. Besides that, Morrowind is included when you purchase the game at all, so hardly p2w even if your claim were true.