So dual wield users need to equip a weapon set to get a comparable execute to 2H???

Draevik

"Ability Altering Weapons
Executioner’s Blade:
This item set now increases the damage done with Hidden Blade by up to 250% on targets under 100% Health (2.5% damage per 1% missing Health), rather than 200% against targets under 25% Health.
This set now also restores up to 50% of the cost of Hidden Blade when used on targets under 50% Health. This portion of the attack will also proc when using the free cost version of Flying Blade."

• I like the sounds of it honestly, but won't the 2-hander execute still be vastly superior with the 400% damage modifier, the regen upon kill and the much lower stamina cost?
• Also what about in PVP, that leaves dual wield with 2 executes that will go on cooldown (unless you take the terribly clunky morph Flying Blade), whereas 2-hand users can spam until their heart is content?

This will pretty much put the nail in the coffin for DW in PVP. Also, if I am not mistaken nearly all DW skills cost more stamina, isn't that odd given two light weapons vs one gigantic one would take much less of a toll? If the argument is that it is ranged and hits multiple targets, take a look at the templar execute, there is no execute that comes close in power in any PVP situation to that ability.

2H already has way better regen passives (DW has 0) and a better overall skill lineup, their spammable has two effects tied to it, off-balance and CC, yet either morph of flurry has nothing except a weak heal.

llBlack_Heartll

DW does have an execute built into their passive.
But I don't play PvP very often, so I'm not sure if the DW Passive is useful in PvP.

RaptorRodeoGod

Dont forget you have to stand behind the target to get the extra damage

MashmalloMan

(Damage/Cost values taken from Eso-Skillbook.com combined with patch notes, have not been able to log in)

Shrouded Daggers:

• Damage: 706 * 3.5 = 2471 (Not including potential +20% or +15% DW damage passives, not sure where they'd fall in the equation.)
• Cost: 3780 * 0.85 = 3213 (2763 with 7 medium), refunds "up to" 50%(1890) against execute targets for a combined total of 873 cost.
• Range: 22m
• Target: aoe (+2 targets within 8m)
• Utility: Major Brutality and Interupt.

Executioner:

• Damage: 471 * 5 = 2355
• Cost: 2160 * 0.85 = 1836
• Range: 5m
• Target: single
• Utility: 30% stamina regen for 10s on a kill (not specific to Executioner, just 2H and can activate from any final blow).

Shrouded Daggers + Executioner’s Blade does look to add a ton of utility, while also being a slightly stronger execute skill vs Executioner. My issue with the set is the flanking requirement, I'm not sure if thats still applicable after this week, but no mention of it in the notes means it probably remains.

I'll have to actually test it later, but this is my first thoughts on the set. I think it does have a place in the game, I just don't know where for my personal experience. On paper it's better in almost every way (besides the flanking requirement, YUCK). I think it's true potential shines in the high amount of utility, you get basically the same or greater damage for a ton of other extra bonuses.

Major Brutality, interupt, aoe, ranged, lower cost, higher execute damage AND higher base damage if you wanted to spam on higher health targets as an aoe spammable, works on DW where previously you'd have to rely on Whirling Blades which isn't a very strong execute to begin with at only being passable vs a regular spammable.

Just real quick about Whirling Blades.. That skill costs 3510 (only 270 less than base value of Shrouded, but like 1500 more in execute vs Shrouded with this set and cost refund). Whirling Blade can do up to 1412 damage while Shrouded can do up to 2471 damage making it 75% stronger. Again, Whirling Blades has no utility like the above comparisons to Executioner, while Shrouded is packed. Whirling Blades has no aoe target cap, but 3 targets isn't too shabby in comparison.

Please remove the flanking requirement.

Draevik

But see, you have to wear the set to make that an execute. Compare that with ultimate gain from 2h Asylum. Brutality buff is a non-issue, really how many classes lack a brutality buff? NB without their AOE or Stamplar? Everything else aside having to be behind a target makes this already nearly unusable in PVP except for maybe a NB.

Relegated to PVE use only apparently.

Firstmep

Whirling blades is an amazing execute, it does less dmg than then 2h execute but it's aoe.
I can't tell you how often I get multiple kills in bgs just db+spin to win combing 2 fighting teams.
What this arena weapon will do is give dw a ranged execute, which 2h does not have.
Also 2h isn't superior to dw in every pvp build, dw has blade cloak which is a fantastic utility/dmg skill, spin to win.
I will say tho, hidden blade should've been reworked to something useful before they released a weapon for it.
Shouldn't have to equip an arena weapon just to make a skill usable.
Crit rush/stampede is 100% usable even without the vma 2hander, and that item just empowers it, but it's not a necessity.

BangX

Gonna pair this set with gladiator + sword dancer, might work well on a stam sorc.

Draevik

Firstmep wrote: »

Whirling blades is an amazing execute, it does less dmg than then 2h execute but it's aoe.
I can't tell you how often I get multiple kills in bgs just db+spin to win combing 2 fighting teams.
What this arena weapon will do is give dw a ranged execute, which 2h does not have.
Also 2h isn't superior to dw in every pvp build, dw has blade cloak which is a fantastic utility/dmg skill, spin to win.
I will say tho, hidden blade should've been reworked to something useful before they released a weapon for it.
Shouldn't have to equip an arena weapon just to make a skill usable.
Crit rush/stampede is 100% usable even without the vma 2hander, and that item just empowers it, but it's not a necessity.

I wouldn't say amazing. 2h has access to an AOE execute (75% damage IIRC ) as a morph which is cheaper and has more benefit for sustain. The DW health threshold increase to damage is only useful in PVE. If you have a target at 25% health in PVP they are going to die 90% of the time without this increase to damage. That is of course barring you getting cc'd or them running away. So essentially said increase to damage is pretty much pointless.

Chilly-McFreeze

Draevik wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Whirling blades is an amazing execute, it does less dmg than then 2h execute but it's aoe.
I can't tell you how often I get multiple kills in bgs just db+spin to win combing 2 fighting teams.
What this arena weapon will do is give dw a ranged execute, which 2h does not have.
Also 2h isn't superior to dw in every pvp build, dw has blade cloak which is a fantastic utility/dmg skill, spin to win.
I will say tho, hidden blade should've been reworked to something useful before they released a weapon for it.
Shouldn't have to equip an arena weapon just to make a skill usable.
Crit rush/stampede is 100% usable even without the vma 2hander, and that item just empowers it, but it's not a necessity.

I wouldn't say amazing. 2h has access to an AOE execute (75% damage IIRC ) as a morph which is cheaper and has more benefit for sustain. The DW health threshold increase to damage is only useful in PVE. If you have a target at 25% health in PVP they are going to die 90% of the time without this increase to damage. That is of course barring you getting cc'd or them running away. So essentially said increase to damage is pretty much pointless.

Reverse Slice has splash damage, right. It also has a lower execute multiplier than Executioner. But it's not like you just throw an AoE in the air and ignore dodging like you can do with Whirling. Plus you seem to ingore that DW has passive execute + dmg multiplier for impaired targets as well.

AMeanOne

So stam gets another execute, why can't they make one proper mag execute?

Draevik

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Draevik wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Whirling blades is an amazing execute, it does less dmg than then 2h execute but it's aoe.
I can't tell you how often I get multiple kills in bgs just db+spin to win combing 2 fighting teams.
What this arena weapon will do is give dw a ranged execute, which 2h does not have.
Also 2h isn't superior to dw in every pvp build, dw has blade cloak which is a fantastic utility/dmg skill, spin to win.
I will say tho, hidden blade should've been reworked to something useful before they released a weapon for it.
Shouldn't have to equip an arena weapon just to make a skill usable.
Crit rush/stampede is 100% usable even without the vma 2hander, and that item just empowers it, but it's not a necessity.

I wouldn't say amazing. 2h has access to an AOE execute (75% damage IIRC ) as a morph which is cheaper and has more benefit for sustain. The DW health threshold increase to damage is only useful in PVE. If you have a target at 25% health in PVP they are going to die 90% of the time without this increase to damage. That is of course barring you getting cc'd or them running away. So essentially said increase to damage is pretty much pointless.

Reverse Slice has splash damage, right. It also has a lower execute multiplier than Executioner. But it's not like you just throw an AoE in the air and ignore dodging like you can do with Whirling. Plus you seem to ingore that DW has passive execute + dmg multiplier for impaired targets as well.

I never ignored the passive "execute", I actually directly addressed it saying that it wasn't worth anything in PVP because once the target is at 25% health they are going to die anyways. I have rarely ever seen anyone live through that.

Yes increased damage to enemies who are effected by CC. I like it! BUT what CC does dual wield directly receive in the DW line to take advantage of that? Dizzying swing applies off-balance (+10% damage) and stuns their enemy, or snares them by 40% I don't know why anyone is trying to make a point for DW. Really how many people use it in PVP?

MentalxHammer

While flanking, this set actually makes shrouded daggers outperform traditional spammables at ~88% target HP. If this set didn't have the flanking requirement, it would actually be decently strong in group play aoe based builds.

That's exactly what arena weapon sets should be, ability altering weapons that change your playstyle dramatically, and can be built around. In it's current state with the flanking requirement, it's a dud, no one will farm this set. Remove the flanking requirement, and we have a cool new set to play with for niche mid-large scale group builds.

NeillMcAttack

What’s a “duel wield user”, like a stam toon.

Oh, well you can actually just equip a two handed and use that skill line instead you know.

Celestro

MentalxHammer wrote: »

While flanking, this set actually makes shrouded daggers outperform traditional spammables at ~88% target HP. If this set didn't have the flanking requirement, it would actually be decently strong in group play aoe based builds.

That's exactly what arena weapon sets should be, ability altering weapons that change your playstyle dramatically, and can be built around. In it's current state with the flanking requirement, it's a dud, no one will farm this set. Remove the flanking requirement, and we have a cool new set to play with for niche mid-large scale group builds.

Yes, this is exactly what I love about the changes, including the cost reduction aspect to it upon reaching the 50% execute range. Really, Shrouded Daggers can already serve as a spammable with plenty of utility packed into it. Only issue is it is kind of almost too much of a jack of all trades option that gets rendered pointless by almost every other similar option except perhaps the interrupt feature. Ranged is kind of irrelevant for a stam user whose biggest damaging skills are melee centric anyway, Whirling Blades fits the AoE criteria without a cap on targets (and being melee centric), Major Brutality is likely already being fulfilled by potions and of course every other spammable is better damage wise for ST purposes.

These changes not only enhance its technical spammable capabilities somewhat early in the fight, which would no longer resort to its "primary" function as an interrupt for those that need it, but also turn it into an execute in both continuously scaling damage but also lowering cost akin to most executes with costs on the lower end of the spectrum. Practically allows you to condense two different types of skills with different purposes into one. Sounds legit to me.

Funnily enough, I genuinely wished they would use the arena set to turn Shrouded Daggers into some semblance of its previous version as a pure spammable but they did even more than that. If only that flanking requirement would be nix would it practically be perfect in my eyes.