Ball Groups - Brainstorming

Wing

make all sources of purge self target only would probably be one of the largest single things they could do.

the advantage of ball groups is most noticeable in defensive actions, they tend to have dedicated purge / snare removal / expedition spammers.

while the heal spam is bad as once again, dedicate spammers, its that the cannot be stopped or debuffed in any meaningful way, because its all gone instantly.

second would be to add aoe scaling like proxy det to every aoe in the game. simply reduce aoe damage down to just below a single target spamable, but scaling that makes it an even choice at 2, a good choice at 3, and only get better from there.



people will always group, there is not really any need to punish it, the problem is that ball groups have advantages unique to them outside of just being grouped, that being dedicated spammers using things like purge and expedition that solo / small scale just CANNOT AFFORD. they literally have bots in their group following and spamming one skill to pub stomp, that should not be encouraged.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

simple answer to play against them is not to chase them, up on a wall or on to stairs, range attack (they will need to move to you) put aoe's in their path (with negate over them) and keep at the longest range you can, use procs sets against them, chain them out or silver leash, break the group up, also if they go into a tower on say the wood or mine, and they have taken the flag dont retake the flag just take the tower down, dont play their game, and if you can't be bothered with them just leave them go else where

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's worth pointing out that if ZOS has to actively step in put significant debuffs for players grouping up in a MMO, that's either a damning indictment of a company that just gave up on its intended purpose or a damning indictment on the player base that they just suck and can't avoid getting farmed.

To be fair, they are essentially doing that with testing as we speak.

I am not sure it means the world has ended if an MMO company puts checks and balances on certain play styles.

Isn’t the purpose of eso PvP first and foremast a fun gameplay experience? Doesn’t that generally require that the game function smoothly?

And this isn’t about pugs getting farmed. I couldn’t give two you know what’s about whether ball groups are able to farm helpless pugs. What I care about is the fact that their mere presence causes the server to lag horribly whether you are engaging with them or not.

ZOS_Lunar

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Varana

To be honest, I cannot with good conscience discuss possible options here when I vehemently disagree with the whole premise.

Cyrodiil is about large groups fighting each other. If that is not possible, then the concept of Cyrodiil has failed. Period.
In that case, instead of limiting groups, we should discuss how to abandon Cyrodiil and rework it into something drastically different that is not geared towards large groups (including the basic layout, with large open spaces and huge fortresses that were designed for hundreds of players).

Or ZOS' focus should not be in restricting groups but in reworking their abilities and sets so that they are less taxing. If taken seriously, that will ultimately result in either completely changing the whole game, or in a separation between PvE and PvP. Once we're balancing PvP separately, I think tailoring combat to the needs of Cyrodiil PvP will result in much better performance.

Unfortunately, neither will happen.
But I have no interest in discussing options that will result in removing what Cyrodiil is meant to be.

craybest

they could make certain attacks scale damange in pvp depending on how many targets it has, the more targets, the more damage, so it would really wreck hell against ball groups IMO.

Dusk_Coven

Shut down open world PvP where numbers can't be controlled.
Move all PvP into BG where numbers CAN be controlled and in a smaller instance that is created on demand instead of persistent and with all sorts of other things going on elsewhere in a world instance.

Right now we have 4v4v4 in BG.
Maybe play with the numbers and see what a small instance like a BG can handle. Possibly 8v8v8? 12v12?

If ball groups are so popular, there should be no issue getting full groups into "large group" BG.

NordSwordnBoard

One thing I've seen a ball group leader complain about (here on the forums) is siege weapons being too strong. It was 2019, but buffing siege damage could be something to investigate. It is artillery, after all... and artillery usually devastates infantry with no cover. Siege is one thing you can use on them, but ball groups are less likely to use back on you due to the group's mobile nature.

TequilaFire

So is the end goal to enable solo players to be able to kill "ball" groups?
Seems to be the common underlaying agenda.
There will never be fair feedback from players.

oXI_Viper_IXo

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

if they go into a tower on say the wood or mine, and they have taken the flag dont retake the flag just take the tower down

Unfortunately you can't do this anymore, they made resource towers indestructible =[ Was always a good laugh seeing groups run in there and panick when they realized there was no tower left to kite around.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Varana wrote: »

To be honest, I cannot with good conscience discuss possible options here when I vehemently disagree with the whole premise.

Cyrodiil is about large groups fighting each other. If that is not possible, then the concept of Cyrodiil has failed. Period.
In that case, instead of limiting groups, we should discuss how to abandon Cyrodiil and rework it into something drastically different that is not geared towards large groups (including the basic layout, with large open spaces and huge fortresses that were designed for hundreds of players).

Or ZOS' focus should not be in restricting groups but in reworking their abilities and sets so that they are less taxing. If taken seriously, that will ultimately result in either completely changing the whole game, or in a separation between PvE and PvP. Once we're balancing PvP separately, I think tailoring combat to the needs of Cyrodiil PvP will result in much better performance.

Unfortunately, neither will happen.
But I have no interest in discussing options that will result in removing what Cyrodiil is meant to be.

@Varana
There are massive large scale battles every day in cyro without a ball group in sight, and in those cases, the servers usually work just fine. Big group does not equal ball group. I do believe there is a middle ground where you can still have large scale battles, but you dont have that group of 24 people standing on top of each other. Those groups in particular seem to cause massive problems to the servers.