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Dueling...

Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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I don't PvP as often as I used to, but I do enjoy it, and duels are my preferred method to get my fix. Its an underrated part of the game, in my opinion, and I feel like it needs some love and attention!

The issues with dueling:
I have had my fair share of duels in town, but I hate it... Not only is it immersion-offensive, but its also just annoying when you're perusing the guild traders and there's some mad people wrecking the stall and immediate area like vandals on skooma! I'm sure we have all noticed the strain on performance when multiple people are dueling in highly populated areas. However, towns and cities tend to be the only reliable place to find people who also want to duel! How do we solve this conundrum?

Dueling Arenas:
How about adding some arenas throughout Tamriel, specifically designed for Duels! They can each be unique, showcasing that zones architecture, and some could even add dynamic mechanics to spice up the fight. They could be located far from towns but near wayshrines, to bring life and purpose to some otherwise overlooked areas of the map. Think Elinhir Private Arena, for example, but available publicly as a gathering place for duelers. There are so many ways you can spice up this typically overlooked activity!

Arena Mechanics:
I find it much more exciting when there are outside elements adding pressure to the duel. Here are some brain storms of what I could see being a go to dueling spot...

Starter Zones - Each starter zone can have your typical arena, no fancy bells or whistles, in their corresponding archeture style. A dedicated space, far from heavily populated areas, for players to congregate and duel. Perhaps they could even be a separate instance, like a delve, to prevent any strain on the server. These areas can have their own icon as well on the map.

Craglorn - A good old gladiator arena, with a few cages along the sides on the ground level. Contained are several low level monsters that are released if you interact with the cage door. If all these low level monsters are defeated, a mini boss is released. Duelers will now not only have to worry about each other, but these various monsters as well. The player who manages to defeat the mini boss will gain a minor buff to aid in the duel. Defeating the mini boss also respawns all the cages. Spectators can line the seating area above, cheering, like a classic gladiator film.

Summerset - Ancient ruins at the beach, with a suspended bridge leading to a sunken arena over the ocean. In the center of these tall ruins, there is an elevated platform suspended by 4 crumbling columns. Below is the arena floor, flooded by the ocean. If you manage to knock your opponent off the platform, they fall into the ocean and are shredded by slaughterfish. However, if the platform takes too much damage it will split in half and you will fall below onto the rubble, leaving a small and medium platform for you to continue dueling on. If you choose not to pursue your opponent after they fall, while the platform is still suspended, they can utilize the half sunken stairs to return to the top of a tower, and jump back down on the dueling platform... that is, if the slaughter fish don't get them first... This tower is how you will jump onto the platform to begin with. There would also be multiple balconies for spectators. To reset the platform, you simply have to speak to a mage in one of the balconies and they will use magic to restore the platform (they will not restore it if anyone is below, and the area must be vacated before they comply).

Western Skyrim - A large cave with large icicles suspended above. Ever so often, an icicle will fall dealing heavy AOE dmg, knocking you down and stunning you. This also destroys part of the ice platform, exposing chilling water that deals DoT if you fall in. Crumbled nord architecture will form what resembles what used to be a maze, offering some walls that will block ranged attacks. If certain icicles fall, this maze will essentially cut you off from certain areas, lest you swim through the chilling water.

Elsweyr - A dragon grave yard with large dragon bones littering the area. A dragon watches from a perch and will occasionally make a sassy comment like "These puny mortal mean to impress me?" If you attack the dragon it will either spawn undead, or breath fire on the immediate area. Touching or attacking dragon bones will anger the dragon "Respect the fallen" and it will release that soul tear attack found in dragon fights.

Morrowind - Telvanni style arena, with glowing mushrooms lighting the area. If you attack these mushrooms poison gas is released that deals DoT to anyone caught within its range. Destroying all mushrooms in the area will respawn them. Or perhaps we get an arena under the red mountain? Daedric architecture leads you deep below the base of the mountain, with lava falls and lava pools. In the center are multiple platforms. When each platform takes enough damage, they will sink, forcing you to find another platform. If all the platforms are destroyed too quickly, before another can respawn, the fight will be determined by who can withstand the lava the longest! This would force duelers to decide if they should withhold their AOE's, or go for the insane alternative of swimming in a lake of fire.

Coldharbour - A large daedric tower on a giant floating rock, surrounded by small floating rocks and architecture for spectators. You use portals to reach the top, and if you fall from the top you will certainly die from the drop. Ghosts will occasionally fly through the area, and if you touch one, you are feared, and may run off the edge as a result!

Criminal Offenses - Could we maybe make dueling in town/cities a criminal act? Guards would immediately attack anyone dueling. This would encourage most to seek out these arenas, although I could see this having the reverse effect, encouraging some to duel in cities for the guard action. At least it would be realistic, even though it does nothing to alleviate the strain on performance in these population dense areas.

Group Duels - To compliment these arenas, and dueling in general, it would be amazing if we could battle 2v2, or 1vX. Crown of the group simply needs to invite the crown of another group to a duel, with a limit of 3 per group. This would add a deeper element of strategy (further enforcing roles such as tank/healer), and provide those who want a greater challenge a way to battle against multiple opponents, alone. Yah, you could do battlegrounds, but that is a forced set of rules. Yah, you could go to Cyrodiil or Imperial City, but.......... lets just say I much prefer the stability of performance in a simple duel. Perhaps these arenas are the only place where you can group battle?

Is my head in the clouds? Or would you like to see dueling get some special treatment as well?
  • ArchMikem
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    Do people just not know of the Arena that's west of Wayrest? It's been there since Dueling was implemented. No one uses it cause they're all too lazy to leave town.
    CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
    Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Do people just not know of the Arena that's west of Wayrest? It's been there since Dueling was implemented. No one uses it cause they're all too lazy to leave town.

    Whuhhhhh? Guess I'll be going on an adventure later.

    Regardless though, I think we need more! And if they have exciting mechanics, maybe more people would use them.
  • ArchMikem
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Do people just not know of the Arena that's west of Wayrest? It's been there since Dueling was implemented. No one uses it cause they're all too lazy to leave town.

    Whuhhhhh? Guess I'll be going on an adventure later.

    Regardless though, I think we need more! And if they have exciting mechanics, maybe more people would use them.

    If I was at home I'd log on to find out the name, but its directly West of the city and right below a crafted set location.

    Take note it isn't some grand PvP mode, just a location of interest that has Dueling pits with unique NPCs walking around.
    CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • dlrgames
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    There is also a dueling arena on Artaeum and you get an achievement for winning five duels there
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    dlrgames wrote: »
    There is also a dueling arena on Artaeum and you get an achievement for winning five duels there

    Ohhhh I think I see what you're talking about, the Colosseum?

    Well hey, this thread is turning out to be rather educational! Guess I have some site seeing to do lol.

    Back to one of my requests then: making duels in town a criminal act. Maybe if that was a thing, more people would seek out these places? Now I'm curious to find other arena like areas.
  • preevious
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    Back to one of my requests then: making duels in town a criminal act. .

    Of course .. that would actually really solve the problem, and would be immersion friendly.
    I mean, guards will of course have something to say if two people are killing each other in the street.

    I second this, this should indeed be implemented.

  • kichwas
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    I would love to see the arenas, and for dueling to be restricted to them... or for people that accept duels to be ported to them for the duel.

    Too often people are dueling in very busy spots like the Undaunted quest givers - making it very difficult for people not in the duel when you're dealing with all the loud sounds and flashing graphics...

    Jah bless
    PST timezone - mostly PvE player.

    Super casual player
    Seeking a casual 'lets do some dungeons and world stuff together' guild.
  • Tandor
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    I'm not in favour of making duels in towns a criminal act as that would just alter the nuisance rather than get rid of it. I'd prefer dueling to be disabled in towns and immediately near wayshrines.

    I've honestly been amazed ever since dueling was implemented that guilds - especially the PvP-centred ones - don't make use of the arenas with organised competitions both within the guild and between guilds.
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    kichwas wrote: »
    I would love to see the arenas, and for dueling to be restricted to them... or for people that accept duels to be ported to them for the duel.

    Too often people are dueling in very busy spots like the Undaunted quest givers - making it very difficult for people not in the duel when you're dealing with all the loud sounds and flashing graphics...

    That is literally what made me think of this thread! Its to the point where my game audio just goes out when I pick up pledges... theres soooo much going on, that it breaks the sound, and the NPCs that actually give you pledges don't even spawn for a few minutes.

    I do however like the occasional duel in random places when waiting, like for world bosses, or just outside skyreach catacombs when waiting for my group to get there. For this reason, I would still like the option to duel anywhere, just not in cities or other important busy areas.
    Tandor wrote: »
    I'm not in favour of making duels in towns a criminal act as that would just alter the nuisance rather than get rid of it. I'd prefer dueling to be disabled in towns and immediately near wayshrines.

    I've honestly been amazed ever since dueling was implemented that guilds - especially the PvP-centred ones - don't make use of the arenas with organised competitions both within the guild and between guilds.

    I have to say I like your approach better, I just didn't want to suggest taking the option away from those who feel particularly inclined to duel in cities. Personally though, I think we would all be better off if duels were kept in dedicated dueling areas and outside of cities and other high traffic areas.
  • BigBragg
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    I guess I am an odd man out on this. I have never once had a duel interfere with me using a merchant, banker, guild trader, wayshrines, or slow me down in getting a quest. For me personally there is no collision when others duel, and none of their abilities pull me personally into combat. I just see some people having a good old fashion brawl in the streets.
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    BigBragg wrote: »
    I guess I am an odd man out on this. I have never once had a duel interfere with me using a merchant, banker, guild trader, wayshrines, or slow me down in getting a quest. For me personally there is no collision when others duel, and none of their abilities pull me personally into combat. I just see some people having a good old fashion brawl in the streets.

    The issue isn't that it prevents you from doing these things, reeeeeally, its just..... like if you were out on the town and a drunken brawl broke out at the club you were trying to go to.... its a nuisance, and it doesn't belong, and that mess should be taken elsewyr........... eh? eh?

    Add I have had actual technical issues, like my audio just breaking as a result of the duels in crowded areas, and the long wait time just for NPC's to appear. I will park my toon next to the pledge giver, and go get a drink/grab a snack because I know I will be sitting there for a while waiting for the NPC to appear. Even the time it takes to interact with merchants and the like has a delay as a result, I will click X to speak to them and the game has to sit there and think for a bit.

    Besides, if guards have an issue with certain class abilities, why would they not have a problem with people fighting to the death? Shouldn't they try to keep the peace? Do they really want their city to have a reputation for all the fights??? lol
  • hakan
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    i think a dueling mate finder or sth like that would be better. Queue in and verse with players on a special instance away from the crowd. May also include 2v2 duels too.

    or instead of a queue, it could be a game lobby that you can search for specific matchups.

    otherwise you have to search people around wayshrines or spam chat meanwhile changing zones to reach more people lol.
  • FangOfTheTwoMoons
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Do people just not know of the Arena that's west of Wayrest? It's been there since Dueling was implemented. No one uses it cause they're all too lazy to leave town.

    Whuhhhhh? Guess I'll be going on an adventure later.

    Regardless though, I think we need more! And if they have exciting mechanics, maybe more people would use them.

    If I was at home I'd log on to find out the name, but its directly West of the city and right below a crafted set location.

    Take note it isn't some grand PvP mode, just a location of interest that has Dueling pits with unique NPCs walking around.

    Wow it looks so nice too. Never knew this was here. It's a shame its empty, they should just throw a way shrine in it so it's more accessible. As it is now, it's just more convenient to go to Wayrest itself to dual.
  • Sylvermynx
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    Hammerdeath Arena. Near Hammerdeath Bungalow and the crafting area for Torug's in Stormhaven.
  • Jeremy
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    BigBragg wrote: »
    I guess I am an odd man out on this. I have never once had a duel interfere with me using a merchant, banker, guild trader, wayshrines, or slow me down in getting a quest. For me personally there is no collision when others duel, and none of their abilities pull me personally into combat. I just see some people having a good old fashion brawl in the streets.

    Me either. So you're not the only one.

    Honestly, I kind of like the dueling in towns and such. Adds a little something new to the scenery. Sometimes I'll even stop and watch.

    In respect to dueling, if I could change anything it would be to add a no CP option for dueling. That way PvP builds that are built around NO CP can duel also.
    Edited by Jeremy on October 12, 2020 11:04PM
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    Jeremy wrote: »
    BigBragg wrote: »
    I guess I am an odd man out on this. I have never once had a duel interfere with me using a merchant, banker, guild trader, wayshrines, or slow me down in getting a quest. For me personally there is no collision when others duel, and none of their abilities pull me personally into combat. I just see some people having a good old fashion brawl in the streets.

    Me either. So you're not the only one.

    Honestly, I kind of like the dueling in towns and such. Adds a little something new to the scenery. Sometimes I'll even stop and watch.

    In respect to dueling, if I could change anything it would be to add a no CP option for dueling. That way PvP builds that are built around NO CP can duel also.

    I didn't even think of that! Definitely should've been an option from the start.

    Most times I see 810+ players dueling, so anyone still lvling doesnt even wanna bother. This would encourage way more players to participate.
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    Decided to remote play during my lunch and.... I like that arena west of Wayrest! It looks like it should host a large group vs group fight. Shame it was empty, same with Arteum.

    What if we got a new daily quest? For duels! This would encourage more players to participate, and bring life to these dedicated areas!

    How:
    An NPC located at these various sites offers you a daily quest. To complete it you must initiate a duel within the designated area. Like the justice system, there could be multiple variations in the mix. Maybe its a captain wanting you to show his lackluster soldiers how its done. Maybe its a bored noble with a twisted sense of entertainment. The criteria could be something like:
    • Quest - Unflinching Determination: duel has to last longer than X seconds, victor does not matter
    • Quest - Mer, Myth, and Legend: you must deal at least X damage, victor does not matter
    • Quest - Bragging Rights: you must be the victor of a duel
    • Quest - No Rest Needed: must participate in 3 duels, victor does not matter
    • Duels must remain in a designated space (the arena), or you "fail" the quest and must duel again

    Incentives:
    Like your typical repeatable quest, there will be a modest gold reward and a Dueling Coffer. The coffer can contain motif pages as a rare drop, and various supplies or gear from that zone. As usual, you can share the quest with your group for repeat farming.
  • ArchMikem
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    Back to one of my requests then: making duels in town a criminal act. Maybe if that was a thing, more people would seek out these places? Now I'm curious to find other arena like areas.

    I'd support this. Dueling in player hubs is incredibly annoying. I can tolerate the Dueling that goes on around the Undaunted camps but when people want to throw down next to crafting stations or merchants thats when it needs to be roped in. We need legit Arenas with their own Wayshrines so people can travel easily to designated spots to Duel.
    CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • BigBragg
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    I guess to me threads about dueling in public seem a little like yelling, "Get off my lawn!" All while sitting on a bench in a public park. Players are engaging in the games rules and mechanics as intended, and they aren't interfering or hindering anyone's gameplay. They are just roughhousing outside and having a good time.
  • ArchMikem
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    BigBragg wrote: »
    I guess to me threads about dueling in public seem a little like yelling, "Get off my lawn!" All while sitting on a bench in a public park. Players are engaging in the games rules and mechanics as intended, and they aren't interfering or hindering anyone's gameplay. They are just roughhousing outside and having a good time.

    "They aren't interfering or hindering anyone",

    That one is arguable.
    CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
    Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!
  • idk
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Do people just not know of the Arena that's west of Wayrest? It's been there since Dueling was implemented. No one uses it cause they're all too lazy to leave town.

    Whuhhhhh? Guess I'll be going on an adventure later.

    Regardless though, I think we need more! And if they have exciting mechanics, maybe more people would use them.

    Since players are not using the current one there is no reason to think players would use dueling arenas if Zos made more of them.

    Edit: I will repeat what Arch said, it became accessible after Zos made dueling possible. It was always there, just not something we coujdl enter before.
    Edited by idk on October 14, 2020 1:02AM
  • BigBragg
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    BigBragg wrote: »
    I guess to me threads about dueling in public seem a little like yelling, "Get off my lawn!" All while sitting on a bench in a public park. Players are engaging in the games rules and mechanics as intended, and they aren't interfering or hindering anyone's gameplay. They are just roughhousing outside and having a good time.

    "They aren't interfering or hindering anyone",

    That one is arguable.

    I fail to see it, aside from people not liking the way it looks. To me that seems fairly knit picky.
  • idk
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    BigBragg wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    BigBragg wrote: »
    I guess to me threads about dueling in public seem a little like yelling, "Get off my lawn!" All while sitting on a bench in a public park. Players are engaging in the games rules and mechanics as intended, and they aren't interfering or hindering anyone's gameplay. They are just roughhousing outside and having a good time.

    "They aren't interfering or hindering anyone",

    That one is arguable.

    I fail to see it, aside from people not liking the way it looks. To me that seems fairly knit picky.

    It is probably a matter of perspective. Some would see the lore breaking aspect of fighting in a major city while the guards just walk on by. Others could care less about things like that.
  • master_vanargand
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    Tank vs Tank never ends.
    Duel is not interesting because the game balance is bad.
    I don't want to fight a battle that never ends after a thousand years.
    If the game balance is good, Duel would be great.
  • BigBragg
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    idk wrote: »
    BigBragg wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    BigBragg wrote: »
    I guess to me threads about dueling in public seem a little like yelling, "Get off my lawn!" All while sitting on a bench in a public park. Players are engaging in the games rules and mechanics as intended, and they aren't interfering or hindering anyone's gameplay. They are just roughhousing outside and having a good time.

    "They aren't interfering or hindering anyone",

    That one is arguable.

    I fail to see it, aside from people not liking the way it looks. To me that seems fairly knit picky.

    It is probably a matter of perspective. Some would see the lore breaking aspect of fighting in a major city while the guards just walk on by. Others could care less about things like that.

    To me it fits from a lore perspective as well. The continent is swept up in The Three Banners War. Hopeful recruits, and veterans on leave from the fronts will be swept up in the tension that fills the air. Many sparing matches will be just for fun, the biggest injuries will be a bruised ego. Is there a place in the lore that says consensual duels is forbidden, and if so would that law be universal? Or is this just something people have applied from real life as an assumption?
  • Jman100582
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    should just be a dueling que activity like for bgs. q for cp and no cp. duel lasts 5 minutes best out of 3. implement a medal system like in bgs. Get medals for recoveries like for surviving every time u go to 30%. get medal points based on dmg done and healing done. imo they dmg medals should give significantly more points then the healing ones just so there isnt an incentive to q as a healer. in the case of a draw (as in neither player dies) the match will be decided by medal points. Get rewards of the worthy for every q and winning gives additional xp/geodes
  • Michae
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    Anything to get rid of those guys really. I do writs in Vivec City everyday and the duelers can be very annoying. Instead of fighting on that large road and bridge near the wayshrine they have to jump on top of the crafting stations slowing everything down. I'm not the guy calling for "muh immershun" in a MMO game but durling lik that just seems rude. It's like with those people (irl) that just have to stop to talk in the middle of the pavement instead of moving to the side. Not the end of the world but a little courtesy would be appreciated.
    Edited by Michae on October 14, 2020 6:44AM
    "I bear the cruel weight of certainty. Total, absolute, relentless certainty. People rarely comprehend the luxury of doubt... the freedom that comes with indecision. I envy you."
    Sotha Sil

    @Michae PC/EU
  • Banana
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    I've had auto decline on since it implementation.
  • doomette
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    Michae wrote: »
    Anything to get rid of those guys really. I do writs in Vivec City everyday and the duelers can be very annoying. Instead of fighting on that large road and bridge near the wayshrine they have to jump on top of the crafting stations slowing everything down. I'm not the guy calling for "muh immershun" in a MMO game but durling lik that just seems rude. It's like with those people (irl) that just have to stop to talk in the middle of the pavement instead of moving to the side. Not the end of the world but a little courtesy would be appreciated.

    That’s how I feel, so basically “get off mah lawn” lol. I try to be as unobtrusive as I can around people just trying to get their writs or whatever done, so it irks me a little bit when others seem to go out of their way to be discourteous (like seriously, there’s all this space in the game, why duel in the middle of crafting areas). Making it a crime seems a bit harsh, but I wouldn’t mind if they implemented a duel-free zone around crafting tables and such. That way they can still duel in higher-traffic areas, they’d just have to walk like 10 feet to the side so they’re less obtrusive.
  • barney2525
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    Banana wrote: »
    I've had auto decline on since it implementation.

    Me too

    But I don't get the OP points.

    You want more arenas set aside to go and duel ? fine. I see that.

    You want every arena to have whacky random damage and CCs ? wtf ? That's not a duel.

    IMHO

    :#
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