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Stop nerfing sets and fix the game already
MrTrenbolone
✭✭✭
Can you stop nerfing all my sets that I've golden out and barely played a month with?
Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
Edited by MrTrenbolone on October 12, 2020 4:50PM Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
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Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm not defending the performance issues and bugginess of the game, but the people who work on game balance and the people that work on performance optimization are completely different people.
And no, it isn't a matter of simply pulling people & resources from one area to work on another. The people working on one thing in this case likely have little to no experience in working on the other.Edited by Mindcr0w on October 12, 2020 5:08PM10 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not defending the performance issues and bugginess of the game, but the people who work on game balance and the people that work on performance optimization are completely different people.
And no, it isn't a matter of simply pulling people & resources from one area to work on another. The people working on one thing in this case likely have no experience in working on the other.
You say that like ZOS management gets randomly assigned Devs from out of the blue and don't have any choice to how many people are working in each department. They might not just be able to reassign the art development team to fix the issues but they could certainly expand the bug fix team with new hires in order to expedite long overdue fixes.
Plus I'm pretty sure that a team working on game "balance" aka mechanics are going to have to be pretty well versed in the intricacies of the game engine in order to capably write/rewrite the code for their projects.Edited by itscompton on October 12, 2020 5:15PM8 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imo: if you're running a set; prepare for it to be nerfed during next patch.
Odds are you're running one of the best sets; and therefore its gonna get pwned.
BUT get ready to get the next dlc with the next OP sets.
Then wait for them to be nerfed.
Rinse repeat16 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MrTrenbolone wrote: »Can you stop nerfing all my sets that I've golden out and barely played a month with?
Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
I agree.
@ZOS_GinaBruno any chance to alleviate the growing pains?
I understand mmorpg's grow, change, "balance"....but this is getting absurd. I won't even chase the carrot all the way, gold out weapons and I'm done....too damn expensive in this ZOS enviroment atm.
Please let us opt for a full material refund on changed sets for a set period after change.Edited by Wolfpaw on October 12, 2020 5:58PM12 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭itscompton wrote: »You say that like ZOS management gets randomly assigned Devs from out of the blue and don't have any choice to how many people are working in each department. They might not just be able to reassign the art development team to fix the issues but they could certainly expand the bug fix team with new hires in order to expedite long overdue fixes.
All well and true, but no one high enough up the ladder to make those decisions is ever going to hear or care about forum feedback.
The level of employee that will hear (and admittedly, likely mostly ignore) feedback from the forums is many many steps removed from the people who approve/assign budgets.
1 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Imo: if you're running a set; prepare for it to be nerfed during next patch.
Odds are you're running one of the best sets; and therefore its gonna get pwned.
BUT get ready to get the next dlc with the next OP sets.
Then wait for them to be nerfed.
Rinse repeat
Still better than DC Universe Online which would completely overbuff the damage multipliers of a different class each update and posted DPS scoreboards at the end of each dungeon to shame everyone into buying class change tokens.Edited by itscompton on October 12, 2020 7:17PM4 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is why its only safe to gold out garbage sets...they can't get any worse. No, in the end, ZOS has no interest in people playing how they want...ZOS is only interested in people playing the way ZOS thinks they should.7 -
Phaedryn✭✭✭1) It's called balancing.
2) The sets still work fine.
3) This is an MMORPG, if you honestly thought things would stay static you are playing the wrong genre.
Edited by Phaedryn on October 12, 2020 7:19PM4 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MrTrenbolone wrote: »Can you stop nerfing all my sets that I've golden out and barely played a month with?
Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
Dont worry, plenty of procsets still for you to pair up with Lethal Arrow.4 -
Valdek✭✭✭In ESO, you can leave for a year or more, come back, and still do fairly well with the sets you had previously. I love that side of ESO. Unless you want to min-max, you can literally just play and enjoy playing the content you like most. In other MMOs, it's a constant gear grind to keep up to date with the newest level cap, expansion or gear sets that come out.0 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭3) This is an MMORPG, if you honestly thought things would stay static you are playing the wrong genre.
While the basic idea behind this is true, and I try to maintain a fair and realistic viewpoint as a long time MMO enthusiast, the frequency and degree to which ZOS makes changes to balance in this game is far beyond what I have encountered in any other MMO.
It at times gets frustrating and exhausting. While I'm sure the intentions behind all this are good, the reality of it starts to feel like the design team's philosophy is "If it ain't broke, break it. If it is broke, break it more".Edited by Mindcr0w on October 12, 2020 7:44PM3 -
buttaface✭✭✭✭✭3) This is an MMORPG, if you honestly thought things would stay static you are playing the wrong genre.
Overused fallacy seen constantly in MMO forums. No one posting who is annoyed at back and forth see saw gyrations every couple of months and capricious overnerfing, head-scratching, unnecessary changes of things few were complaining about expects things to "stay static." MMO players generally don't like what amounts to 180s and even 360s. What people don't expect from an MMO is upheaval for $$ sake to keep the grind alive, not any kind of "static" game.
@thread To the topic, there's a casino in Vegas with great cheap food and drinks, but is constantly jiggering with its payouts, odds and policies, both publicly and behind the scenes. Revenues suffer because over time players, especially whales, will go in occasionally for the cheap food and drinks but spend their real money on competitive casinos with better and more reasonable payouts and policies elsewhere.8 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭3) This is an MMORPG, if you honestly thought things would stay static you are playing the wrong genre.
While the basic idea behind this is true, and I try to maintain a fair and realistic viewpoint as a long time MMO enthusiast, the frequency and degree to which ZOS makes changes to balance in this game is far beyond what I have encountered in any other MMO.
It at times gets frustrating and exhausting. While I'm sure the intentions behind all this are good, the reality of it starts to feel like the design team's philosophy is "If it ain't broke, break it. If it is broke, break it more".
Agree.
I didn't think the sky was falling with the NMA nerf/balance, & I still use NMA. Small adjustments like that are fine...but big overhaul changes is much w/o compensation.
& after sometime it starts to feel like a gotcha patch follows after a content release.3 -
Xiomaro✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »What got nerfed?
He plays a Sheer Venom and Venomous Smite Nightblade so I'm guessing it's because of the Sheer Venom nerf on the test server.
For the record I also have a build with Sheer Venom and I think a nerf was inevitable. The set is completely busted.
Edit for more clarification on the nerf:
Right now, Sheer Venom does a little less damage than the average proc set. Most proc sets are designed to do 1.6k sustain damage. Sheer Venom does 1.45k. But as soon as your health drops to 45% it does more and more damage than an average proc set. With the change on the test server, it will only start doing more damage than other procs beneath 25% which makes a lot more sense for an execute proc.Edited by Xiomaro on October 12, 2020 8:24PMPC EU No CP PVPXiomaro: Nord Stamsorc
Xio'maro: Breton Magsorc
Falura Avelni: Dunmer Vampblade
Ulric Longboi: Nord Stamden
Sha'boom-boom: Orc Werewolf Tank
Morga The Roarer Nord Stamcro5 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MrTrenbolone wrote: »Can you stop nerfing all my sets that I've golden out and barely played a month with?
Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
No they cannot. it's called balancing and nerfing things that overperform is a part of it.
It's easier to say "fix a bug" then to fix it although I will admit that ZoS sucks at fixing their bugs.
You can expect no refunds since there is no reason for any refunds to be given. When You play the game You should accept the fact nothing is set in stone and moving parts will be moving.
You can spend Your time and resources however You want , ZoS never guaranteed You that they won't touch anything You like. They even reserve the right to change whatever they want in ToS which You've accepted. When it comes to wasting a time , making thread like the one above is a waste of time. Nobody forced You to spend Your time in the game in a specific way.4 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭MrTrenbolone wrote: »Can you stop nerfing all my sets that I've golden out and barely played a month with?
Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
No they cannot. it's called balancing and nerfing things that overperform is a part of it.
It's easier to say "fix a bug" then to fix it although I will admit that ZoS sucks at fixing their bugs.
You can expect no refunds since there is no reason for any refunds to be given. When You play the game You should accept the fact nothing is set in stone and moving parts will be moving.
You can spend Your time and resources however You want , ZoS never guaranteed You that they won't touch anything You like. They even reserve the right to change whatever they want in ToS which You've accepted. When it comes to wasting a time , making thread like the one above is a waste of time. Nobody forced You to spend Your time in the game in a specific way.
feedback is important.
I meanwhile saved 200 Euro as I refuse to buy expensive items atm, and zos deserves to know why they is losing me as a customer with a big money purse.
The feedback they get from such threads also is reflected in the email surveys the do now and then, just answered the second maybe 2 weeks ago. The questions reflect that they are aware of discussions in the forum.3 -
Recapitated✭✭✭✭Recapitated wrote: »What got nerfed?
He plays a Sheer Venom and Venomous Smite Nightblade so I'm guessing it's because of the Sheer Venom nerf on the test server.
For the record I also have a build with Sheer Venom and I think a nerf was inevitable. The set is completely busted.
Edit for more clarification on the nerf:
Right now, Sheer Venom does a little less damage than the average proc set. Most proc sets are designed to do 1.6k sustain damage. Sheer Venom does 1.45k. But as soon as your health drops to 45% it does more and more damage than an average proc set. With the change on the test server, it will only start doing more damage than other procs beneath 25% which makes a lot more sense for an execute proc.
If that's true, then I'm not mad that you golded out your armor OP.1 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭MrTrenbolone wrote: »Can you stop nerfing all my sets that I've golden out and barely played a month with?
Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
You sir, ask for too much. The dev's probably won't even read it.2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭markulrich1966 wrote: »MrTrenbolone wrote: »Can you stop nerfing all my sets that I've golden out and barely played a month with?
Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
No they cannot. it's called balancing and nerfing things that overperform is a part of it.
It's easier to say "fix a bug" then to fix it although I will admit that ZoS sucks at fixing their bugs.
You can expect no refunds since there is no reason for any refunds to be given. When You play the game You should accept the fact nothing is set in stone and moving parts will be moving.
You can spend Your time and resources however You want , ZoS never guaranteed You that they won't touch anything You like. They even reserve the right to change whatever they want in ToS which You've accepted. When it comes to wasting a time , making thread like the one above is a waste of time. Nobody forced You to spend Your time in the game in a specific way.
feedback is important.
I meanwhile saved 200 Euro as I refuse to buy expensive items atm, and zos deserves to know why they is losing me as a customer with a big money purse.
The feedback they get from such threads also is reflected in the email surveys the do now and then, just answered the second maybe 2 weeks ago. The questions reflect that they are aware of discussions in the forum.
Complaining about something without giving any details or explanations is called whining not feedback.
I'm touched by Your story of saving moneys but in all honesty , nobody cares.
There is no feedback in threads like the one here and no informations that could be usefull in future development of the game.
As for Your email survey that got answreed I have no idea what You're talking about.2 -
Sylveria_Relden✭✭✭✭When you play the meta, the meta also plays you.TL;DR - If you got this far without reading the entire post you're either too lazy or suck at reading comprehension and probably don't belong in a public forum anyway. Just move along, you wouldn't understand.3 -
Dunning_Kruger✭✭✭✭Just build for stats and sustain; I have a few sets that I rarely change or get nerfed. When you play the procs; you get played.____________________________________
A G G R O - the legendary stamplar GM of <HALL MONITORS>
For the Queen bby2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭3) This is an MMORPG, if you honestly thought things would stay static you are playing the wrong genre.
While the basic idea behind this is true, and I try to maintain a fair and realistic viewpoint as a long time MMO enthusiast, the frequency and degree to which ZOS makes changes to balance in this game is far beyond what I have encountered in any other MMO.
It at times gets frustrating and exhausting. While I'm sure the intentions behind all this are good, the reality of it starts to feel like the design team's philosophy is "If it ain't broke, break it. If it is broke, break it more".
Agree.
I didn't think the sky was falling with the NMA nerf/balance, & I still use NMA. Small adjustments like that are fine...but big overhaul changes is much w/o compensation.
& after sometime it starts to feel like a gotcha patch follows after a content release.
Exactly this.
Back to the gear grind for some of us though. At least with vertical progression (a gear grind when you level) its obvious when your gear is obsolete. With horizonal progression (a gear grind when devs make changes), many folks dont get back to the grind and then you start seeing performance losses in group combat.
I always preferred vertical progression, its honest. Horizontal progression is less than truthful.2 -
rrimöykk✭✭✭✭✭1) It's called balancing.
2) The sets still work fine.
3) This is an MMORPG, if you honestly thought things would stay static you are playing the wrong genre.
No one is assuming things would stay static. We simply assume new content brings new gear and loot that are better than previous ones. Sadly this isn't the case in ESO as they just randomly buff 5 year old sets to be better than current ones (AY becoming BiS for stam) or they release new content with utterly garbage sets (Kyne's Aegis).
Only mmorpg in the history that forces its players to grind old(est) content for the best items. That is not healthy.2 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭markulrich1966 wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »MrTrenbolone wrote: »Can you stop nerfing all my sets that I've golden out and barely played a month with?
Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
No they cannot. it's called balancing and nerfing things that overperform is a part of it.
It's easier to say "fix a bug" then to fix it although I will admit that ZoS sucks at fixing their bugs.
You can expect no refunds since there is no reason for any refunds to be given. When You play the game You should accept the fact nothing is set in stone and moving parts will be moving.
You can spend Your time and resources however You want , ZoS never guaranteed You that they won't touch anything You like. They even reserve the right to change whatever they want in ToS which You've accepted. When it comes to wasting a time , making thread like the one above is a waste of time. Nobody forced You to spend Your time in the game in a specific way.
feedback is important.
I meanwhile saved 200 Euro as I refuse to buy expensive items atm, and zos deserves to know why they is losing me as a customer with a big money purse.
The feedback they get from such threads also is reflected in the email surveys the do now and then, just answered the second maybe 2 weeks ago. The questions reflect that they are aware of discussions in the forum.
Complaining about something without giving any details or explanations is called whining not feedback.
I'm touched by Your story of saving moneys but in all honesty , nobody cares.
There is no feedback in threads like the one here and no informations that could be usefull in future development of the game.
As for Your email survey that got answreed I have no idea what You're talking about.
[Quoted post was removed]
[Quoted post was removed]
I give the feedback in the corresponding topics, where zos actually reads them in the correct context. I am not going to repeat my points just for you in a thread of a different topic.
What I did is to reply to your accusation, that the feedback we give would not be relevant.
If you want more details, read the threads about rapid manoeuver, iceheart and crystal blast.
Again: the feedback is not for you, it is for zos. So keep out of stuff that is not intended for you.
Nobody owes you a justification or information, you are simply irrelevant.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on October 13, 2020 12:45PM3 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭markulrich1966 wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »markulrich1966 wrote: »MrTrenbolone wrote: »Can you stop nerfing all my sets that I've golden out and barely played a month with?
Can you focus on fixing the bugs that people have complained about for years?
When can we expect refunds on nerfed sets?
This is unacceptable, we've spend time and resources into the game, we've wasted time which is something you can't give back, atleast let us be able to deconstruct our nerfed sets for a period of time and give us all the invested materials and transmute crystals back.
No they cannot. it's called balancing and nerfing things that overperform is a part of it.
It's easier to say "fix a bug" then to fix it although I will admit that ZoS sucks at fixing their bugs.
You can expect no refunds since there is no reason for any refunds to be given. When You play the game You should accept the fact nothing is set in stone and moving parts will be moving.
You can spend Your time and resources however You want , ZoS never guaranteed You that they won't touch anything You like. They even reserve the right to change whatever they want in ToS which You've accepted. When it comes to wasting a time , making thread like the one above is a waste of time. Nobody forced You to spend Your time in the game in a specific way.
feedback is important.
I meanwhile saved 200 Euro as I refuse to buy expensive items atm, and zos deserves to know why they is losing me as a customer with a big money purse.
The feedback they get from such threads also is reflected in the email surveys the do now and then, just answered the second maybe 2 weeks ago. The questions reflect that they are aware of discussions in the forum.
Complaining about something without giving any details or explanations is called whining not feedback.
I'm touched by Your story of saving moneys but in all honesty , nobody cares.
There is no feedback in threads like the one here and no informations that could be usefull in future development of the game.
As for Your email survey that got answreed I have no idea what You're talking about.
[Quoted post was removed]
[Quoted post was removed]
I give the feedback in the corresponding topics, where zos actually reads them in the correct context. I am not going to repeat my points just for you in a thread of a different topic.
What I did is to reply to your accusation, that the feedback we give would not be relevant.
If you want more details, read the threads about rapid manoeuver, iceheart and crystal blast.
Again: the feedback is not for you, it is for zos. So keep out of stuff that is not intended for you.
Nobody owes you a justification or information, you are simply irrelevant.
Well thanks for claryfying that You've completly missed the point of what was discussed here. I can only suggest You to learn to read before commenting because Your comments above are completly not related to the discussion of this thread and points I've made in response to OP. Making thread which basically says "stop nerfing stuff start fixing stuff" gives zero feedback to anyone same as comments You've made here. Also I would suggest You to be little less toxic if You want for forum to have less toxicity.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on October 13, 2020 12:46PM2 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭itscompton wrote: »I'm not defending the performance issues and bugginess of the game, but the people who work on game balance and the people that work on performance optimization are completely different people.
And no, it isn't a matter of simply pulling people & resources from one area to work on another. The people working on one thing in this case likely have no experience in working on the other.
You say that like ZOS management gets randomly assigned Devs from out of the blue and don't have any choice to how many people are working in each department. They might not just be able to reassign the art development team to fix the issues but they could certainly expand the bug fix team with new hires in order to expedite long overdue fixes.
Plus I'm pretty sure that a team working on game "balance" aka mechanics are going to have to be pretty well versed in the intricacies of the game engine in order to capably write/rewrite the code for their projects.
It's an interesting assumption, but I doubt it.
At the beginning, a Business figures out what it needs, and how many people it needs and can afford for each area of the business. Then it hires the numbers it needs for each area.
You suggest they hire more people as if you are in tune with everything that entails financially. When you hire someone you also have to supply all of the equipment, work space, and any number of extemporaneous requirements needed so that they can actually perform the job.
So what do you do ? Are you suggesting that they fire some of the devs so they can have more techs working on bugs?
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