Random vet vs random vet DLC?

josiahva

Honestly...its a RANDOM vet, meaning any vet dungeon can pull from the queue...DLC or not. If you select a RANDOM dungeon, its on you to know the mechs...especially as the tank. I tank the things all the time, and while I wish I could exclude the non-DLC vet dungeons, I realize if I want the random rewards(bad rewards by the way, certainly not worth it) then I have a chance of being put into any dungeon the game has to offer. As the tank, its my responsibility to know all the mechs...but if I do happen to get into a dungeon that I don't know a certain fight...I just stop and ask what I need to know as the tank....there is a 75% chance someone in the group will know and give a brief rundown. On the other end of the spectrum, I will often give a brief rundown of relevant mechs to others if I think for some reason they don't know. I have found completion rates to CONSISTENTLY be 80%+ for vet DLC dungeons you pug through the group finder if you make an effort to learn/teach the mechanics...and this has been the same since vWGT and vICP first dropped all the way until now....its just a matter of making the effort

kargen27

MirandaSharp wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

If you queue for a random that is what you should get, a random dungeon. Part of the reason the group finder exists is to help players running a specific dungeon fill their group. Allowing players to opt out of the harder dungeons takes away from the players that want to run those dungeons.

As you don't want the extra XP that comes with doing a random you could select the dungeons you like to run then join the queue. The only reason to queue for a random dungeon would be because you want the XP bonus that comes with doing it random. Your problem has a very easy solution that already exists in the game.

Then I won't get the stones, which is the reason I do the daily random.

Okay but you have to take into account that there are players who want to do a specific dungeon and that includes the DLC dungeons. The random queue satisfies both your needs and their needs but only if it includes all dungeons. The rewards are there to entice people to queue for a random allowing groups that want to do a specific dungeon to be filled.

Edited to add if you are only after the stones and don't want to spend a lot of time queue for a normal dungeon. The daily rewards are the same. Then if you want a challenge you can queue for a specific vet dungeon. Running a random normal and a preferred vet would probably take less time than queuing for a random vet and getting a DLC.

Cryptical

josiahva wrote: »

Honestly...its a RANDOM vet, meaning any vet dungeon can pull from the queue...DLC or not. If you select a RANDOM dungeon, its on you to know the mechs...especially as the tank. I tank the things all the time, and while I wish I could exclude the non-DLC vet dungeons, I realize if I want the random rewards(bad rewards by the way, certainly not worth it) then I have a chance of being put into any dungeon the game has to offer. As the tank, its my responsibility to know all the mechs...but if I do happen to get into a dungeon that I don't know a certain fight...I just stop and ask what I need to know as the tank....there is a 75% chance someone in the group will know and give a brief rundown. On the other end of the spectrum, I will often give a brief rundown of relevant mechs to others if I think for some reason they don't know. I have found completion rates to CONSISTENTLY be 80%+ for vet DLC dungeons you pug through the group finder if you make an effort to learn/teach the mechanics...and this has been the same since vWGT and vICP first dropped all the way until now....its just a matter of making the effort

^^^^ This ^^^^

@MirandaSharp
It’s on you to learn the mechanics.

It’s your tank-ish responsibility to prepare yourself for those dungeons.

Nobody is forcing you to hold a shield and slot a taunt. Nobody marked your role as tank. You did those things. You are continuing to do those things.

Tanks put in the effort to learn the mechanics, and are rewarded with short queue times. You sound like you are trying to scoop up the short queue time without honoring your part of the deal.

MirandaSharp

kargen27 wrote: »

Edited to add if you are only after the stones and don't want to spend a lot of time queue for a normal dungeon. The daily rewards are the same. Then if you want a challenge you can queue for a specific vet dungeon. Running a random normal and a preferred vet would probably take less time than queuing for a random vet and getting a DLC.

Yes, I'll probably do something like that. Unfortunately normal dungeons are just silly easy and the level gap between my character and the pug is huge. Vet normal is just perfect qua time and difficulty for a daily random. Guess I can't have it all..

MirandaSharp

Cryptical wrote: »

Tanks put in the effort to learn the mechanics, and are rewarded with short queue times. You sound like you are trying to scoop up the short queue time without honoring your part of the deal.

Love being a tank, not for the queue time. But for the control of the bosses and battle field, queue time is just a bonus. Problem with vet DLC is all(not only tank) need to know the mechanics down to each detail. I know them on some of the DLC dungeons, but I'd be lying if I say I know it perfectly on all. I have of course read all the guides and watched youtube run throughs etc, but the only way to nail it is to run the dungeon over and over to get the timings right of when each mechanic kicks in. It's not just the tank that needs to know it, the whole group needs to know it. With random vet DLC you don't know what you get in your pug. If you get a bunch of guys who just wanted to do random vet normal and weren't prepared for whatever vet DLC we get, the pug breaks up and people leave before we can finish the dungeon.

MirandaSharp

josiahva wrote: »

I have found completion rates to CONSISTENTLY be 80%+ for vet DLC dungeons you pug through the group finder

On random? For me random vet normal is 100% complete with any pug, but random vet DLC is way lower than 80%, I'd say it's more like 30% the other 70% fail because the pug breaks up.

Cryptical

MirandaSharp wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Tanks put in the effort to learn the mechanics, and are rewarded with short queue times. You sound like you are trying to scoop up the short queue time without honoring your part of the deal.

Love being a tank, not for the queue time. But for the control of the bosses and battle field, queue time is just a bonus. Problem with vet DLC is all(not only tank) need to know the mechanics down to each detail. I know them on some of the DLC dungeons, but I'd be lying if I say I know it perfectly on all. I have of course read all the guides and watched youtube run throughs etc, but the only way to nail it is to run the dungeon over and over to get the timings right of when each mechanic kicks in. It's not just the tank that needs to know it, the whole group needs to know it. With random vet DLC you don't know what you get in your pug. If you get a bunch of guys who just wanted to do random vet normal and weren't prepared for whatever vet DLC we get, the pug breaks up and people leave before we can finish the dungeon.

That’s not accurate. I’ve tanked many vet dlc where the pug group didn’t know what to do during a fight. It usually only takes a sentence.

When the green seed drops put it on the pillar then ulti drop on the rock. Bam - that’s the corrupted pillar boss of dlc maarselok.

When he jumps in the air, move the blocks over the lava geysers. Bam - gargoyle boss of dlc moongrave

Kill them evenly. Bam - ogres of scalecaller.

Focus on using lots of aoe while I get them together. Bam - narilmor of Malatar.

When he throws his hammer stay off the island until fire goes away. Bam - mino boss of bloodroot.

It’s doesn’t require perfect timing of every mechanic from all 4 group members, as you keep saying. Dps doesn’t need to know the lava geyser from the bloodroot Minotaurs. They don’t need to know the evil blue circle that the lurched creates for the pillar boss of marselok. Just you, the tank.

MirandaSharp

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s doesn’t require perfect timing of every mechanic from all 4 group members, as you keep saying. Dps doesn’t need to know the lava geyser from the bloodroot Minotaurs. They don’t need to know the evil blue circle that the lurched creates for the pillar boss of marselok. Just you, the tank.

The only vet DLCs I can somewhat reliably finish with pugs(if they're decent players) are those I've run over and over many times. If I get one that I've only done once or twice things keep going wrong. Hope you're right about it's enough for only tank to know. I've only been playing for about 6 months, so maybe when I've run them through enough times getting a vet DLC on random may not be the pug breaker it currently is.. I see you joined the forum in 2016, so I guess you have quite a lot more experience with the game?

Jeremy

MirandaSharp wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s doesn’t require perfect timing of every mechanic from all 4 group members, as you keep saying. Dps doesn’t need to know the lava geyser from the bloodroot Minotaurs. They don’t need to know the evil blue circle that the lurched creates for the pillar boss of marselok. Just you, the tank.

The only vet DLCs I can somewhat reliably finish with pugs(if they're decent players) are those I've run over and over many times. If I get one that I've only done once or twice things keep going wrong. Hope you're right about it's enough for only tank to know. I've only been playing for about 6 months, so maybe when I've run them through enough times getting a vet DLC on random may not be the pug breaker it currently is.. I see you joined the forum in 2016, so I guess you have quite a lot more experience with the game?

The more difficult DLC dungeons on Veteran Mode have always been a challenge in pugs (and likely always will be). I've been playing since beta and it's been that way long as I can remember.

Sometimes you'll get lucky and get into a pro group that knows exactly what they are doing and never makes mistakes. But it's definitely the exception and not the rule. Taking on the role of tank and knowing the fights inside and out yourself will certainly increase your odds of finishing. But it's by no means a guarantee.

MirandaSharp

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s doesn’t require perfect timing of every mechanic from all 4 group members, as you keep saying. Dps doesn’t need to know the lava geyser from the bloodroot Minotaurs. They don’t need to know the evil blue circle that the lurched creates for the pillar boss of marselok. Just you, the tank.

BTW, Noticed you're on XBox, while I'm on PC(model potato).. -Think it makes any difference?

Cryptical

MirandaSharp wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s doesn’t require perfect timing of every mechanic from all 4 group members, as you keep saying. Dps doesn’t need to know the lava geyser from the bloodroot Minotaurs. They don’t need to know the evil blue circle that the lurched creates for the pillar boss of marselok. Just you, the tank.

BTW, Noticed you're on XBox, while I'm on PC(model potato).. -Think it makes any difference?

I hadn’t noticed.

But yes! It makes a big difference! Not in your favor!

Being on pc, you have add-ons. You have combat trackers that can keep track of what every mob in the fight is doing, whether you can see it or not. You have dungeon guides that will plot out the mechanics for you so all you need is hit the buttons it tells you.

At a bare minimum, you have add-ons that will track your location and pop up the appropriate mechanic for that fight right there in your user interface, without you needing to actually go hunt down anything at all!

Yeah, you being on pc does make a difference. It means you get a panoply of assistance to carry you that doesn’t exist in the unmodded game, and you’re still complaining that it’s too hard for you.

This. This will hold your hand for you.
https://youtu.be/9eragk8sUNM

MirandaSharp

Cryptical wrote: »

This. This will hold your hand for you.
https://youtu.be/9eragk8sUNM

I know all his guides inside out.. It only tells what I already know. I'm now looking at Nefas and the stuff he uses for his UI. Problem with these addons is they kill my PC.. I still need the game to be playable. If I had a monster PC I can just throw all the addons in there and it would all be easy-peacy(in theory)..

MirandaSharp

Cryptical wrote: »

But yes! It makes a big difference! Not in your favor!

Having addons is a good thing, no?
I notice they have Xbox servers separate from PC servers, which is kind of odd if we're all playing the same game.. An Xbox is just a PC after all.. Why don't we play on the same servers? I have a feeling it's just not the same experience playing on Xbox as on PC. Almost all the "gurus" are on PC, while Xbox players doing the same content aren't held in such high regard...

Sleezly

Simple answer. Don't be an ESO+ subscriber then you won't have access to the DLC dungeons when queueing for a daily random (unless you purchased a DLC, obviously).

When I was grinding for the last 200 CP from ~600 to 810 I purposefully let my ESO+ lapse so that daily randoms would be from the base game only. It was glorious.

Cryptical

MirandaSharp wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

But yes! It makes a big difference! Not in your favor!

Having addons is a good thing, no?
I notice they have Xbox servers separate from PC servers, which is kind of odd if we're all playing the same game.. An Xbox is just a PC after all.. Why don't we play on the same servers? I have a feeling it's just not the same experience playing on Xbox as on PC. Almost all the "gurus" are on PC, while Xbox players doing the same content aren't held in such high regard...

Trying to go down the “pc master race” road, eh? Seriously? And after you said so many things about dlc mechanics being hard enough to require a split in the group finder, and after you said your pc isn’t all that hot anyway.

You’re right. It is a different experience between pc and console. Playing on console holds the player to a higher level of skill due to exactly zero add-on assistance whatsoever. Base UI, no moving or modifying any of the elements. The buffs and debuffs move around in the timer bar, so instead of having it easy by pinning the important ones we have to learn them by sight and scan the countdown in the middle of combat. Or count off the seconds in the back of our heads. Same with potion cool down. If we don’t see the mob animation or hear the audio cue then we miss the block because we don’t have “block now” appear in our face like a billboard from an add-on. We have to know what is where in our inventory, no dressing room or banking add-on to do the work for us. We don’t have a 101 key keyboard yet we get the same content done with far fewer keys. Our spatial tracking gets so much exercise it has abs on top of abs because every single targeted action involves swinging the camera to and fro. And that’s just the gameplay. Traders on console learn the flows and trends of the market without data dumps going straight from eso into a spreadsheet, we scan the raw sales histories and make mental notes of random WTS/WTB in zone chat to inform us. We remember what the crafting writ wants us to make without the Lazy Writ add-on doing it for us. No skyshard or lore book add-on maps to act like training wheels on our skill grind.

Pc gets the add-on that tracks and informs of the mechanics on the fly, like a butler doing all the legwork. Console hears or reads about it and has to remember on their own.

With all the helper software available to do the work for pc players, I hardly think that qualifies as a master race. If you’ve ever heard the quote about how everything Fred Astaire did Ginger Rogers also did but backwards and in high heels... everything pc players do is also done by the console players but with no help and all done manually. Pc doesn’t really distinguish itself as a master when it has all that software doing the work.

The reason there are more pc people on the forums is that pc players are already sitting at a computer while a console is a separate piece of hardware.

zvavi

Cryptical wrote: »

When he jumps in the air, move the blocks over the lava geysers. Bam - gargoyle boss of dlc moongrave

It’s doesn’t require perfect timing of every mechanic from all 4 group members, as you keep saying. Dps doesn’t need to know the lava geyser from the bloodroot Minotaurs. They don’t need to know the evil blue circle that the lurched creates for the pillar boss of marselok. Just you, the tank.

1. It is literally more dangerous to split and move the cubes while adds are still alive, and taxing on healer, it is much safer to just move boxes aside and then heal in the middle while killing the adds that tank is chaining in.
2. The amount of dds that died by blocking geyser/vents I have seen is enormous, they do need to know it is tank job, or they will jump to the wrong conclusion.
3. And they do need to know about the blue circle, after all, the melee range is where olorime, combat prayer, etc etc are...Even without being melee if they don't know they might find themselves dead trying to reposition after the tank moved.

MirandaSharp

Sleezly wrote: »

When I was grinding for the last 200 CP from ~600 to 810 I purposefully let my ESO+ lapse so that daily randoms would be from the base game only. It was glorious.

Hilarious solution to the problem!