Frenzied Momentum: Let's Have A Chat

Skjaldbjorn

Frenzied Momentum (Momentum)
1 – Adds 877 Maximum Stamina (Perfected Only)
1 – While Momentum is active, casting Stamina abilities generates a stack of Frenzied Momentum for 10 seconds, up to 5 times. Upon reaching max stacks, your next Heavy Attack will consume all stacks and release a violent explosion of energy around your target, dealing 9028 Physical Damage to them and all enemies within 8 meters of them.

Within days of this item's design and PTS release, two things have happened.

1. PVP players hate it, seeing it as just more proc meta where people get one-shotted.
2. PVE players hate it because....it's effectively worthless.

This is, by far, the wonkiest, most unpleasant and weirdly balanced item from the new arena. With that in mind, i'd like to propose a wholesale redesign that actually kind of fits the "Frenzied Momentum" title a bit better. Hear me out.

Frenzied Momentum (Momentum)
1 – Adds 877 Maximum Stamina (Perfected Only)
1 – While Momentum is active, Reverse Slash's damage vs targets above 50% health is increased by 100%.

Or 80%, or 50%, or whatever you want to stick to it, really. The point is, this would open build diversity. It makes the Executioner/Reverse Slice skill line much more open-ended. Do you want to bring a spammable with your execute, or do you want one skill to be both? Keep in mind, you're surrendering a monster set and potential for a Mythic (still want 5/5) to wear this in PVE. That's a hefty cost, but it's way, waaaaaaaaaaaaay more useful in PVE. I can think of a few classes that would strongly consider this item, especially since it isn't a damn channeled spammable, so it opens up options, particularly in niche situations.

It also plays into previous arena weapons removing weaknesses in a skill, such as the BRP 2h making Uppercut effectively have a cleave at the cost of your monster set. It also adds in the idea of Stam having a "cleave" spammable that isn't Brawler, which would be very effective on specific fights and open up more options, since this would effect Reverse Slice.

Generally, I also feel this would be less...controversial in PVP. Thoughts?

Recapitated

Doesn't having to slot Momentum on top of Executioner negate the benefit, namely that you don't have to waste a slot on a spammable?

Skjaldbjorn

Recapitated wrote: »

Doesn't having to slot Momentum on top of Executioner negate the benefit, namely that you don't have to waste a slot on a spammable?

True. Fair point. I...kinda forgot about that, actually. Welp.

Recapitated

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

Doesn't having to slot Momentum on top of Executioner negate the benefit, namely that you don't have to waste a slot on a spammable?

True. Fair point. I...kinda of forgot about that, actually. Welp.

If it makes you feel better that's better than the logic in the 6.2.1 notes

MincVinyl

Hard to understand why they wouldn't focus on making the arena weapons make the intended skill more powerful instead of some random effect that is no different than slotting any other proc set.

Just seems really uncreative at this point.

JohnOfMarkarth

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Frenzied Momentum (Momentum)
1 – Adds 877 Maximum Stamina (Perfected Only)
1 – While Momentum is active, casting Stamina abilities generates a stack of Frenzied Momentum for 10 seconds, up to 5 times. Upon reaching max stacks, your next Heavy Attack will consume all stacks and release a violent explosion of energy around your target, dealing 9028 Physical Damage to them and all enemies within 8 meters of them.

Within days of this item's design and PTS release, two things have happened.

1. PVP players hate it, seeing it as just more proc meta where people get one-shotted.
2. PVE players hate it because....it's effectively worthless.

This is, by far, the wonkiest, most unpleasant and weirdly balanced item from the new arena. With that in mind, i'd like to propose a wholesale redesign that actually kind of fits the "Frenzied Momentum" title a bit better. Hear me out.

Frenzied Momentum (Momentum)
1 – Adds 877 Maximum Stamina (Perfected Only)
1 – While Momentum is active, Reverse Slash's damage vs targets above 50% health is increased by 100%.

Or 80%, or 50%, or whatever you want to stick to it, really. The point is, this would open build diversity. It makes the Executioner/Reverse Slice skill line much more open-ended. Do you want to bring a spammable with your execute, or do you want one skill to be both? Keep in mind, you're surrendering a monster set and potential for a Mythic (still want 5/5) to wear this in PVE. That's a hefty cost, but it's way, waaaaaaaaaaaaay more useful in PVE. I can think of a few classes that would strongly consider this item, especially since it isn't a damn channeled spammable, so it opens up options, particularly in niche situations.

It also plays into previous arena weapons removing weaknesses in a skill, such as the BRP 2h making Uppercut effectively have a cleave at the cost of your monster set. It also adds in the idea of Stam having a "cleave" spammable that isn't Brawler, which would be very effective on specific fights and open up more options, since this would effect Reverse Slice.

Generally, I also feel this would be less...controversial in PVP. Thoughts?

I tend to like yer ideas but this one is...

"After using one ability... another ONE, you have to slot, is better"

its like... If they made Asylum sword with an extra step...
If they wanted to oost reverse slash they should put the buff on reverse slash...
I know theres things like that in DW weapon sets but they boost multiple abilities instead of "if you use this ability you really just... buff this other ability with this weapon"

Solariken

MincVinyl wrote: »

Hard to understand why they wouldn't focus on making the arena weapons make the intended skill more powerful instead of some random effect that is no different than slotting any other proc set.

Just seems really uncreative at this point.

This.

I mean I guess they could do something generic like +X% bonus weapon damage to all your 2h attacks while Momentum is active. But I still think they could do better than that.

MincVinyl

I mean they should be doing things along the lines of

"Consecutive recasts grants 150 weap/spell damage each stacking up to 3 times lasting for the remaining duration of momentum or until a nonconsecutive recast."

This would be designed to play into both rally or forward momentum where the defensive capability of both morphs has to be balanced with the potential buff. With FM a player could play defensively kiting while recasting. With rally the defense in the form of the heal comes after your burst rotation.

Inevitably it will still come down to the user to make any use of the set correctly and then make use of the stats correctly. The concept of arena weapons is to make the ability feel unique in some way. Momentum is a buff ability, it should be a buff arena weapon, it should buff your actions in some way. If you are catching my drift.

edit: @Solariken lmao i mean literally takes 5 mins of thinking to come up with something unique.

Firstmep

SO this set is going to hit harder than Velidreth, in an 8m aoe.

Okay then.

Gaggin

I am okay with whatever change they make so long as it doesnt buff wardens in pve, which are already too powerful.

Skjaldbjorn

Gaggin wrote: »

I am okay with whatever change they make so long as it doesnt buff wardens in pve, which are already too powerful.

I hate you so much Gaggin rofl

Kingslayer513

MincVinyl wrote: »

Hard to understand why they wouldn't focus on making the arena weapons make the intended skill more powerful instead of some random effect that is no different than slotting any other proc set.

Just seems really uncreative at this point.

Agreed. This effect is completely out of left field... and why does it just HAVE to be another proc set?

Jman100582

I feel that the set should simply just buff the momentum skill. It could either a). increase the healing of the ability for both morphs. pretty simple. b). give a damage buff thats between 8-13% (this way it competes with the brp dw, which gives 6% dmg reduction and 6% increased dmg). Or c). tie in another buff to the skill such as minor expedition, minor berserk, or maybe even minor force.

Any of those options would be better then a wonky proc set imo

Recapitated

Frenzied Momentum sounds like something that could have a kiss/curse component, like a ramping WD buff as you deal damage (or kill targets) and a fatigue period where your weapon damage is decreased by whatever amount you were at for 5
x seconds when Momentum expires or is reapplied.

MashmalloMan

I think it's silly to make an ability altering weapon for momentum, buff another skill in the weapon line, none of them do that and it just serves to shoehorn the weapon..

Keep it simple people. PVE and PVP both benefit from damage stat bonuses really well while proc sets usually suck in pve, but rock in pvp.

I want to see this:

Just increase your weapon damage every second it's active with some type of bonus when you recast it early. It goes hand in hand with Rally providing a stronger burst heal the more time it's up, but also provides a bonus for Forward Momentum users who cast it early for snare removal. The idea matches the name, Momentum and rewards players in different ways.

So something like +25 weapon damage every second it's active (total +500 at 20s). When the effect ends for any reason, gain +200 weapon damage for 4seconds.

Bam, works for both morphs. Fudge with the numbers using their balance standards, but thats what I would actually use.

Strider__Roshin

Proc sets are lazy designs that make the game worse. Redo the weapon entirely. Redo all proc sets and PvP will be in a much better state. This game gets worse with every patch, and with every proc set.

Strider__Roshin

If ZOS wants to keep blatantly ignoring feedback, enraging PvPers, and keep causing players to quit the game then they can keep doing what they've been doing. They're great at keeping PvPers away from their game.

JohnOfMarkarth

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Gaggin wrote: »

I am okay with whatever change they make so long as it doesnt buff wardens in pve, which are already too powerful.

I hate you so much Gaggin rofl

Its not gonna stop, my friend. Not until they are useless and then... finally, they clean their hands, and say "Its done. The Wardens are no more. We won, entire class playerbase lost. And moved on to different classes, or... games"

JohnOfMarkarth

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

If ZOS wants to keep blatantly ignoring feedback, enraging PvPers, and keep causing players to quit the game then they can keep doing what they've been doing. They're great at keeping PvPers away from their game.

I agree whole-heartedly... but there is a limit to set creativity

After you added all possible stat boosting set recombinations... There is nothing to add. No more new sets etc. That sounds fun for some... but would make much of the content... have no reason to be played.

Its a wicked catch... Unless one offers new 5th set bonuses to all the proc sets out there. All of them. Entirely new bonuses... that dont end up repeating themselves.

I agree with you as much as i can. But at the same time... I would like to see specific examples to most sets to believe it possible. And offer possibilities for new sets... without repetition. Else... its just howling at the moon.

MincVinyl

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

If ZOS wants to keep blatantly ignoring feedback, enraging PvPers, and keep causing players to quit the game then they can keep doing what they've been doing. They're great at keeping PvPers away from their game.

I agree whole-heartedly... but there is a limit to set creativity

After you added all possible stat boosting set recombinations... There is nothing to add. No more new sets etc. That sounds fun for some... but would make much of the content... have no reason to be played.

Its a wicked catch... Unless one offers new 5th set bonuses to all the proc sets out there. All of them. Entirely new bonuses... that dont end up repeating themselves.

I agree with you as much as i can. But at the same time... I would like to see specific examples to most sets to believe it possible. And offer possibilities for new sets... without repetition. Else... its just howling at the moon.

They could just give up on trying to fill a unnecessary quota each patch.

MashmalloMan

MincVinyl wrote: »

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

If ZOS wants to keep blatantly ignoring feedback, enraging PvPers, and keep causing players to quit the game then they can keep doing what they've been doing. They're great at keeping PvPers away from their game.

I agree whole-heartedly... but there is a limit to set creativity

After you added all possible stat boosting set recombinations... There is nothing to add. No more new sets etc. That sounds fun for some... but would make much of the content... have no reason to be played.

Its a wicked catch... Unless one offers new 5th set bonuses to all the proc sets out there. All of them. Entirely new bonuses... that dont end up repeating themselves.

I agree with you as much as i can. But at the same time... I would like to see specific examples to most sets to believe it possible. And offer possibilities for new sets... without repetition. Else... its just howling at the moon.

They could just give up on trying to fill a unnecessary quota each patch.

Yeah. They're gonna run out good ideas, I mean you can argue it's already happenning.. We will start getting even more niche sets as time goes on like single skill sets akin to Oblivions Foe to pad out the set number limit per DLC.

This patch alone added 17 sets? Thats pretty insane. I'm not interested in nearly 75% of them. +360 damage to a poisoned enemy? Alright How about that set last patch for +370 spell damage, but -10% fire/fighters guild damage?

They can do this literally forever imo just in different ways, yet I'd still rather use Hundings or Julianos which have been available for 4+ years.

OlumoGarbag

Or they just implement perfected versions of old sets in new contend. I really want perfected adept rider!

MincVinyl

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Or they just implement perfected versions of old sets in new contend. I really want perfected adept rider!

I was gonna say we can hard call out zos for running out of ideas around the adept rider launch.

I mean if they are that stressed for content they could do something like crowd sourcing or bring back the class rep program to help have more in-depth ideas from people that have any sort of understanding of the game. Or just stop releasing content quarterly. Bug/mechanic fixes could be the sole focus of every other quarter, while content comes out every half year. Eso has such a solid base game design, but simply doesn't work anymore due to poor game design choices layered on top of layer after layer after layer.

hakan

JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Gaggin wrote: »

I am okay with whatever change they make so long as it doesnt buff wardens in pve, which are already too powerful.

I hate you so much Gaggin rofl

Its not gonna stop, my friend. Not until they are useless and then... finally, they clean their hands, and say "Its done. The Wardens are no more. We won, entire class playerbase lost. And moved on to different classes, or... games"

why would they? they perform so good on pvp. just use another class on pve looool 4head

for the OP. im thinking this +ele weapon then either crystal weapon for stamsorc or cloak crit for nb with bow heavy from a far. would that work? i gotta download pts again..

KingShocker

if you could combine this with that dolihamus (or whatever its called) set on a DK with molten armaments and a mage skill for empower, you could have one hell of a heavy attack. the setup would be sooo stupid but if you could pull it off it would be awesome to nuke someone with the heavy attack from god.

you would also need to slot two different weapon damage buff skills and a taunt, but if you were able to maintain all that you would just need to taunt>leap/encase>heavy attack>maybe execute.

Kurat

I'm actually relieved that the new arena weps are trash, I hate that place even more than vMA back in the day when I had to grind it. I'm glad i don't have to do it again.

SshadowSscale

Am I the only one that was hoping to get the dot heal of rally back with this weapon?

katorga

As proc sets go this is pretty tame. At least you have to do something.

But this plus Doylemish...

Austinseph1

Honestly the new arena sets look very... meh... Maybe the resto will be useful for sustain in some fights but the others doent look appealing.

Artorias24

katorga wrote: »

As proc sets go this is pretty tame. At least you have to do something.

But this plus Doylemish...

Frenzied momentum, doylemisch plus explosive rebuke. 30k damage from one heavy attack while you can be at 60k HP.

Firstmep

SshadowSscale wrote: »

Am I the only one that was hoping to get the dot heal of rally back with this weapon?

That would be amazing tbh, I'd 100% prefer that.